Ireland & England v Barbarians, 28 and 31 May

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Game 1

             
21 Ireland XV v Barbarians 22
28 May 2015
KO: 19:45
Thomond Park, Limerick

Ireland XV Team

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
13. Colm O'Shea (Clontarf/Leinster)
12. Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
11. Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster)
10. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
9. Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne Leinster)

1. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)
2. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
6. Robbie Diack (Malone/Ulster)
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) captain

16. Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
17. Michael Bent (Dublin University/Leinster)
18. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
19. Ben Marshall (Old Belvedere/Connacht)
20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21. Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)
22. Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
23. Cian Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)

Barbarians Team:

15. Zane Kirchner (Leinster & South Africa)
14. Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues & Wales)
13. Joe Rokocoko (Bayonne & New Zealand)
12. Wynand Olivier (Montpellier & South Africa)
11. David Smith (Toulon)
10. James Gopperth (Leinster)
9. Ruan Pienaar (Ulster & South Africa)

1. Roberto Tejerizo (Tucuman & Argentina)
2. Deon Fourie (Lyon)
3. Adam Jones(Cardiff Blues & Wales)
4. Rodrigo Capo Ortega (Castres & Uruguay)
5. Konstantin Mikautadze (Toulon & Georgia)
6. Shane Jennings (Leinster & Ireland, capt)
7. Gerhard Vosloo (Toulon)
8. Ryu Koliniasi Holani (Panasonic Wild Knights & Japan).

16. David Ward (Harlequins)
17. Saimone Taumoepeau (Castres & New Zealand)
18. Matias Diaz (Pampas & Argentina)
19. Nathan Hines (Sale Sharks & Scotland)
20. George Smith (Lyon & Australia)
21. Tomas Cubelli (Belgrano Ath & Argentina)
22. Tusi Pisi (Suntory Sungoliath & Samoa)
23. Gio Aplon (Grenoble & South Africa).

Game 2

  
England v Barbarians
31 May 2015
KO:15:00
Twickenham, London

England XV Team:
Tait (Leicester Tigers); Wade (Wasps), Daly (Wasps), Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Yarde (Harlequins); Cipriani (Sale Sharks), Dickson (Northampton Saints, capt); Mullan (Wasps), Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Brookes (Newcastle Falcons); Slater (Leicester Tigers), Launchbury (Wasps); Wilson (Newcastle Falcons), Clifford (Harlequins), Beaumont (Sale Sharks).

Replacements: Taylor (Sale Sharks), Waller (Northampton Saints), Denman (Northampton Saints), Gaskell (Wasps), Fisher (Northampton Saints), Chudley (Exeter Chiefs), Geraghty (London Irish), Lewington (London Irish)

Barbarians Team:
Aplon (Grenoble & South Africa); Smith (Toulon), Rokocoko (Bayonne & New Zealand), Olivier (Montpellier & South Africa), Monye (Harlequins & England); Pisi (Suntory Sungoliath & Samoa); Cubelli (Belgrano Ath & Argentina); Taumoepeau (Castres & New Zealand), Ward (Harlequins), Diaz (Pampas & Argentina); Manoa (Northampton Saints and USA), Thorn (Leicester Tigers & New Zealand, capt); Whitelock (Panasonic Wild Knights & New Zealand), Smith (Lyon & Australia), Waldrom (Exeter Chiefs & England).

Replacements: Fourie (Lyon), Tejerizo (Tucuman & Argentina), Jones (Cardiff Blues & Wales), Hines (Sale Sharks & Scotland), Matera (Pampas & Argentina), Pienaar (Ulster & South Africa), Brett (Lyon), Fujita (Panasonic Wild Knights & Japan)

21 Paddy Cobbletogether - Barbarians 22

Thank God someone got some tries!

Strong Barbarian side - especially when ol' Hines showed up earlier than planned.... the old cute dog  - anyway, you'd be a little happy that the offloading game the Barbarians were playing didn't completely catch that largely inexperienced Irish team out and knock up an embarrassing scoreline.  I feared it at one point in that second half.  

There was some great defending by the Irish guys - but I'm kinda a little sick of talking about 'defending' and Ireland.  I want a new story added to it and I know that wasn't the side to bring any new stories tonight but I hoped even a hint more adventure would be seen.  It looked all too flat in creative ambition and they had to once again retreat to the forward pack and rolling mauls for most of the forward progress effort.

Some of the younger names really need now to start driving harder at becoming focus players.  The older boys keep getting older, Rob Kearney keeps being ordinary, Reddan has virtually had it at this level - and it's time for the younger boys to recognise they have to begin to carry more weight and influence.  We need to find new Stars that prove it in terms not just of opportunism but in a steeliness that drifts away from regimented Schmidtonomics.  We need some individuals having the courage to be different and add spark.

It wasn't a bad scoreline in the end but the performance was scatty, often confused, rushed and unconvincing.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Missed a little...but not much Rory... lovely Gilroy try, fantastic Kirtchner one.

The back line are not clicking at all - similar story in the first half?

How did Luke Marshall get on?

OK but not enough to leapfrog Henshaw or Cave I'd have thought. Put in some notable big hits with some good defensive reads but didn't really show much in attack - almost made a great break but was pulled back for a forward pass from Madigan.

Generally it wasn't great from Ireland - set piece was solid but ball retention was poor and some of the handling and timing was off in attack. Hard to read much into it given how little preparation time was there and how many players were unavailable.

Gilroy took his try well and Chris Henry was the best Irish player for me followed by Strauss. The no 13, what's his name looked solid too.

Both halfbacks were fairly poor, with Leinster's attacking malaise definitely embedded in Heaslip, Reddan, Madigan and Rob Kearney - who were all mediocre imo, which is worrying for the RWC as all are fairly nailed on.

Amazed that Jack McGrath wasn't red carded and that Luke McGrath didn't get at least a yellow. I'd say both will be in big trouble.

For the baa-baas, I thought they were pretty good and definitely the better side. Great to see Rocoko still going well and Kirchener scored a great individual try albeit Madigan should have covered better on the inside.

Planet Rugby were less than convinced with Irelands performance:-

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_52230,00.html

No surprised LD - George Smith needs a mention too - he put in some massive hits, looks like a shrewd signing for Wasps.

So Ulster had a reasonably good game then Rodders?

Heaslip was on chaperone auto-pilot and still brought a ton of steadiness to that otherwise wavering, erratic, unsteady, ship.  Had he not been there, it might have gotten ugly on the scoreboard

The laughing at the end was so curious.  Big pats on the back and bear hugs all round.  Ireland are playing this year so f**king coy.  

Anyway...the rest of what you say is generally spot on.  Kearney needs a replacement if what he now does isn't under strict orders from Schmidt.  He's ineffective - big lobs back into the hands of the Barbarian attack, setting them up for what they wanted to do - run from deep.
Reddan looks off the physicality, fitness and confidence needed now to keep things motoring at International level.  He tries to compensate now by always just trying too hard... it's not sweet, it's rushed and the kind of 'chaos' that needs backs on song - ours aren't.

LordDowlais wrote:Planet Rugby were less than convinced with Irelands performance:-

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_52230,00.html

Does it sound like we are?

I watched bits of the game, but it almost seemed to me that Ireland were lacking in creativity, they seemed very robotic in their approach, this then caused the crowd to lack in any atmosphere. Perhaps Sexton will give that extra spark, but for me it seemed like Ireland were happy to let the Baa Baa's have the ball and then catch them off guard when they were not expecting it, is this a Schmidt tactic ? he did not seem to have Leinster playing that way. Also how nice was it to see Chris Henry back ? A try as well, I hope he has a good career after what he has been through.

What did Pascal Pape get for his knee to the back of a prone player? This lad could be in trouble.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CGHgI5NWcAAboA_.mp4

SecretFly wrote:So Ulster had a reasonably good game then Rodders?  

Hmm wouldn't say that in those terms. I think it was a personal triumph for Henry who showed why he's so highly regarded in such a competitive position - was a total nuisance at the breakdown, seemed to be leading the younger players and took his try well. Generally he and Schmidt can be happy I'd say. With O'Brien not firing on all cylinders I'd say Henry has everything to play for.

Gilroy scored a trademark try, which is typical of his form this year where only Matt Healy is comparable - probably caught out a bit on defense though so don't think he'll have put pressure on Zebo or Fitzgerald, although an injury could see him in with a shout of the RWC squad.

Paddy Jackson wasn't on long enough to show his form but Madigan really wasn't good at 10 again, so Schmidt must be loosing patience and considering his options as back up for Sexton although Madigan's place kicking and versatility make him nailed on for the 23.

Diack and Touhy didn't do anything wrong or standout and Marshall didn't really show anything with the ball in hand - would have rather seen McCloskey and/or Reid to be honest who probably offer a bit more at this stage.

An ok night for Ulster but don't think anyone brought there A game particularly.

Chunky Norwich wrote:What did Pascal Pape get for his knee to the back of a prone player? This lad could be in trouble.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CGHgI5NWcAAboA_.mp4

Mentioned it above - definitely a red and possibly a double red for Luke McGrath too - amazed by the TMO/Ref decision on just a yellow for Jack. I think both will be cited and Jack McGrath could miss the RWC over this.

Some players did well enough, others were mixed and some were thinking of something other than rugby.
I agree that Heaslip wasn't slipping himself but without him there would have been a lot more chaos. Who was captain? Was it Heaslip, because he kept trying the pick up from the scrum, short pass to Reddan, side step to let the defence up on Madigan, hospital pass to anyone who was static and had a defender 10cm away - it wasn't working and the captain should have changed it.

McGrath will probably be out of the RWC now and maybe Madigan too so I'm not sure what all the smiles at the end were about either.

LordDowlais wrote:I watched bits of the game, but it almost seemed to me that Ireland were lacking in creativity, they seemed very robotic in their approach, this then caused the crowd to lack in any atmosphere. Perhaps Sexton will give that extra spark, but for me it seemed like Ireland were happy to let the Baa Baa's have the ball and then catch them off guard when they were not expecting it, is this a Schmidt tactic ? he did not seem to have Leinster playing that way. Also how nice was it to see Chris Henry back ? A try as well, I hope he has a good career after what he has been through.

Yeah, good observations Lord.  

It did look a continuation of us inviting teams to attack and then forcing ourselves into these long bouts of defence.  Now that's not to say the Barbarians didn't come with the intention to attack - Schmidt team or no Schmidt team - but the tactic from us mostly seems to be always let the opposition attack and absorb a lot of defensive pressure.  In a way, it's simply a little more honed and effective version of Kidney's own often criticised tactics/or lack thereof.  But with Schmidt - because the defence is less passive than in Kidney's time - it's worked and been effective up to now.  

That's why it's hard to judge with Schmidt.  Is he just coaching a limited game because that's all the Irish lads can cope with or is he coaching a game that lulls future opposition (in an important year) into a long term view of what Ireland does and how they play?

The future will tell us which.

Chunky Norwich wrote:What did Pascal Pape get for his knee to the back of a prone player? This lad could be in trouble.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CGHgI5NWcAAboA_.mp4

He's gone. His world cup is over before it began.

Not impressed at all be Heaslip's post match reaction - I know he is a fairly laid back guy but walking around with a huge grin when you've lost isn't really what you want in a captain.

Agree he did well at the base of the scrum but at this level he needs to offer a bit more in terms of carrying, offloading and breaking the gain line - not to mention leadership.

He's living of reputation (again) and if you were to list Irelands best individual back rows he wouldn't be top 5 on current form.

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:What did Pascal Pape get for his knee to the back of a prone player? This lad could be in trouble.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CGHgI5NWcAAboA_.mp4

He's gone.  His world cup is over before it began.

A chance for Kilcoyne though? He's looked good for Munster - we desperately need Healy fit as McGrath could well have been penciled in to start.

Furlong did pretty well too which is another plus.

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:What did Pascal Pape get for his knee to the back of a prone player? This lad could be in trouble.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CGHgI5NWcAAboA_.mp4

He's gone.  His world cup is over before it began.

That stamp doesn't look to good either.

The Great Aukster wrote:Some players did well enough, others were mixed and some were thinking of something other than rugby.
I agree that Heaslip wasn't slipping himself but without him there would have been a lot more chaos. Who was captain? Was it Heaslip, because he kept trying the pick up from the scrum, short pass to Reddan, side step to let the defence up on Madigan, hospital pass to anyone who was static and had a defender 10cm away - it wasn't working and the captain should have changed it.

McGrath will probably be out of the RWC now and maybe Madigan too so I'm not sure what all the smiles at the end were about either.

I guess Schmidt and his coaches wanted to look at certain specifics.  You want to criticise it all... you want to say the team (even though it was a lot inexperienced in a number of positions) didn't play well enough.... but this [I am a twonk of the highest order]???? - otherwise known as 'Basteraude'! when UNcensored - Schmidt is at the helm and micro-managing his preparations.

The score though is still what it was against a Very tasty potent side with no slouchers from 1 to 15.

LordDowlais wrote:
That stamp doesn't look to good either.

Nope - totally amazed by the stupidity of both players and even more amazed Ireland weren't down to 13 men.

rodders wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
That stamp doesn't look to good either.

Nope - totally amazed by the stupidity of both players and even more amazed Ireland weren't down to 13 men.

It's funny how things can get missed during a game though whilst I remember the knee incident it totally took my mind away from that stamp, the TMO should have picked both up though and advised the ref correctly, a yellow for the stamp,but would not have been surprised to see a red and a red for the knee in the back. Why the TMO cannot see this when it is his job, yet we can and we are only fans is beyond me.

rodders wrote:Not impressed at all be Heaslip's post match reaction - I know he is a fairly laid back guy but walking around with a huge grin when you've lost isn't really what you want in a captain.

Agree he did well at the base of the scrum but at this level he needs to offer a bit more in terms of carrying, offloading and breaking the gain line - not to mention leadership.

He's living of reputation (again) and if you were to list Irelands best individual back rows he wouldn't be top 5 on current form.

He's there to chaperone.  Schmidt was looking at other players - under pressure - where you learn most about them - at least Schmidt seems to enjoy them being under pressure anyway rather than being instinctively creative.

Nope, not accepting that Heaslip is a guy you'd easily drop in a real WC game where results matter - Schmidt paraphrase after the game; 'Not often you get a free game to look at some players'.

So maybe that's why Heaslip was laughing (with his Provincial team mates it must be said too) he knows what his job was on the night and I don't think he's worried about Joe not picking him for lack of effort....

Anyone watch it. What was the atmosphere like? Lots of red jerseys?

LordDowlais wrote:

rodders wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
That stamp doesn't look to good either.

Nope - totally amazed by the stupidity of both players and even more amazed Ireland weren't down to 13 men.

It's funny how things can get missed during a game though whilst I remember the knee incident it totally took my mind away from that stamp, the TMO should have picked both up though and advised the ref correctly, a yellow for the stamp,but would not have been surprised to see a red and a red for the knee in the back. Why the TMO cannot see this when it is his job, yet we can and we are only fans is beyond me.

Totally agree - the ref actually asked the TMO about the stamp but he didn't respond - I think they bottled it to be honest as the minimum outcome really should have been a yellow and a red, 2 reds would have been fairly harsh but probably understandable.

I think in a non-barbarians game 2 cards are shown and at least 1 is red no doubt.

GunsGerms wrote:What was the atmosphere like?

Very flat, quiet and un Thommond like. You could feel the tenseness/not botheredness coming through the tele.

SecretFly wrote:
So maybe that's why Heaslip was laughing (with his Provincial team mates it must be said too) he knows what his job was on the night and I don't think he's worried about Joe not picking him for lack of effort....

There in lies the problem fly, and its the story of Heaslip's career to be honest. I actually think he has been one of Leinster's better players this year but I bet if Stander was IQ there would be a different story as Heaslip would be under pressure and having to raise his game week in week out.

Heaslip's attitude too often is to do the bare minimum, and only step up a gear when he has to and that is not a good attitude in a leader in my opinion.

There's no way you'd see O'Connell, Best or Sexton coasting and being happy with a loss or mediocre performance.

LordDowlais wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:What was the atmosphere like?

Very flat, quiet and un Thommond  like. You could feel the tenseness/not botheredness coming through the tele.

Munster fans are notorious for only supporting Munster players that play for Ireland. There werent any players from the local parish playing so it was like watching two foreign teams for many in attendance.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
So maybe that's why Heaslip was laughing (with his Provincial team mates it must be said too) he knows what his job was on the night and I don't think he's worried about Joe not picking him for lack of effort....

There in lies the problem fly, and its the story of Heaslip's career to be honest. I actually think he has been one of Leinster's better players this year but I bet if Stander was IQ there would be a different story as Heaslip would be under pressure and having to raise his game week in week out.

Heaslip's attitude too often is to do the bare minimum, and only step up a gear when he has to and that is not a good attitude in a leader in my opinion.

There's no way you'd see O'Connell, Best or Sexton coasting and being happy with a loss or mediocre performance.

Dont confuse being laid back with not caring. Just because you dont puff out your chest and scowl everytime the cameras are on you doesnt mean you cant be effective when it counts.

GunsGerms wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:What was the atmosphere like?

Very flat, quiet and un Thommond  like. You could feel the tenseness/not botheredness coming through the tele.

Munster fans are notorious for only supporting Munster players that play for Ireland. There werent any players from the local parish playing so it was like watching two foreign teams for many in attendance.

Ouch, and there is me thinking that us Welsh were the most parochial people in the British Isles.

Joe Schmidt thinks McGrath could well be out of the WC:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/32927902

I think for a meaningless, non-capped match some people are taking things a little too seriously. The whole Baa Baa thing these days is just to have fun and enjoy the experience so why can't Heaslip do just that. The display is hardly indicative of how they'll play meaningful games in the run up to the RWC. The only effect that match last night will have on out RWC hopes will be the loss of McGrath who is a very silly boy.

Heaslip does have previous in terms of too relaxed/ not effective leadership and coasting through games for Ireland. Great player on the right day though

LordDowlais wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:What was the atmosphere like?

Very flat, quiet and un Thommond  like. You could feel the tenseness/not botheredness coming through the tele.

Munster fans are notorious for only supporting Munster players that play for Ireland. There werent any players from the local parish playing so it was like watching two foreign teams for many in attendance.

Ouch, and there is me thinking that us Welsh were the most parochial people in the British Isles.

Parochialism can be found everywhere (the phrase little Englander comes to mind), its just that there seems to be a lot of it in Wales..

LordDowlais wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:What was the atmosphere like?

Very flat, quiet and un Thommond  like. You could feel the tenseness/not botheredness coming through the tele.

Munster fans are notorious for only supporting Munster players that play for Ireland. There werent any players from the local parish playing so it was like watching two foreign teams for many in attendance.

Ouch, and there is me thinking that us Welsh were the most parochial people in the British Isles.

You might well be in the British Isles but here in Ireland people like guns gets his knickers in a twist over anything to do with Munster. Crowd were flat but Ireland didnt give them much to cheer. They were probably supporting Shane Jennings in his final outing as we like the underdog stuff it to them type of which Jennings is that type.

Ireland is in the British Isles Dod.

Munster fans just dont like Ireland much especially when their favorite players arent playing.

ME-109 wrote: They were probably supporting Shane Jennings in his final outing as we like the underdog stuff it to them type of which Jennings is that type.

I bet they enjoyed that late shoulder charge on Madser anyways!

Jennings was a right Basterde all night!  
You'd swear he wanted us to lose!  
Did he not know that we organised through Corrupt Legal Channels (based in Zurich) that he and a few other Leinster boys would be on the Barbarian team to let us win???

Chunky will think him a f**king hero for standing up against us!

England side for Barbarians game


15 Mathew Tait (Leicester Tigers)
14 Christian Wade (Wasps)
13 Elliot Daly (Wasps) *
12 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs) *
11 Marland Yarde Harlequins)
10 Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks)
9 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints, captain)

1 Matt Mullan (Wasps)
2 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs) *
3 Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
4 Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
5 Joe Launchbury (Wasps) *
6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)
7 Jack Clifford (Harlequins)
8 Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks)

Oh yeah, BamBam...that's right! Pushing us to the kerb! Sweep us up and bin us! The warm-up game is over now on to the real deal!

I'm talkin' Here!!! I'm talkin' Here!

Nice team. Not a great fan of Lee Dickson but plenty of interesting options. If they can get much possession and if they click that team could do some damage.

SecretFly wrote:Oh yeah, BamBam...that's right!  Pushing us to the kerb!  Sweep us up and bin us!  The warm-up game is over now on to the real deal!

I'm talkin' Here!!!  I'm talkin' Here!

Well that makes a change

BamBam wrote:England side for Barbarians game


15 Mathew Tait (Leicester Tigers)
14 Christian Wade (Wasps)
13 Elliot Daly (Wasps) *
12 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs) *
11 Marland Yarde Harlequins)
10 Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks)
9 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints, captain)

1 Matt Mullan (Wasps)
2 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs) *
3 Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
4 Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
5 Joe Launchbury (Wasps) *
6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)
7 Jack Clifford (Harlequins)
8 Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks)

Looks like that's going to be a strike running game and a half btw....another England V France on the cards?

lostinwales wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Oh yeah, BamBam...that's right!  Pushing us to the kerb!  Sweep us up and bin us!  The warm-up game is over now on to the real deal!

I'm talkin' Here!!!  I'm talkin' Here!

Well that makes a change

Someone's gotta keep the place open.

SecretFly wrote:Oh yeah, BamBam...that's right!  Pushing us to the kerb!  Sweep us up and bin us!  The warm-up game is over now on to the real deal!

I'm talkin' Here!!!  I'm talkin' Here!

Blame GC for making it one thread to cover both games!!

LordDowlais wrote:Joe Schmidt thinks McGrath could well be out of the WC:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/32927902

Apparently the citing commissioner has taken no action against him. Extremely lucky.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-looks-for-advice-as-he-tries-to-decide-world-cup-squad-1.2230668

Irish Times wrote:Jack McGrath will not face any censure for the yellow card he received against the Barbarians in Thomond Park on Thursday night for kneeing the Georgian lock Konstantin Mikautadze in the back. The yellow card was deemed sufficient punishment given the match citing commissioner did not take any action within the stipulated two hours of the full-time whistle.

Without wanting to cause an argument, personally I would say that if Dylan Hartley is cited and banned for that "headbutt", Jack McGrath is a very lucky boy

Surely that falls far further into the realm of striking an opponent than whatever Hartley did! There needs to be some consistency in terms of citings, in game situations are different as referees view things differently, but surely the whole point of the citing system is that foul play is universally picked up on

BamBam wrote:Without wanting to cause an argument, personally I would say that if Dylan Hartley is cited and banned for that "headbutt", Jack McGrath is a very lucky boy

Surely that falls far further into the realm of striking an opponent than whatever Hartley did! There needs to be some consistency in terms of citings, in game situations are different as referees view things differently, but surely the whole point of the citing system is that foul play is universally picked up on

Yeah, it's a failure of the process and McGrath probably deserved a couple of weeks ban.

BamBam wrote:Without wanting to cause an argument, personally I would say that if Dylan Hartley is cited and banned for that "headbutt", Jack McGrath is a very lucky boy

Surely that falls far further into the realm of striking an opponent than whatever Hartley did! There needs to be some consistency in terms of citings, in game situations are different as referees view things differently, but surely the whole point of the citing system is that foul play is universally picked up on

Yes.

A Citing Panel to Cite Citers that don't Cite? And a backup Panel to cite any transgressions there too.

McGrath is a lucky boy. Not a fan of Madigan's stamp either, seeing as it lands on a joint.

Makes a bit of a mockery of things if they can't get a ban. A yellow card is not sufficient at all.

Terrible decision, that's a very dangerous action by McGrath worse than Pape's on Heaslip and look at the damage that did....the player is in a very vulnerable position with their kidneys exposed.