Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread VII

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Ye Olde Banter:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
https://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv
https://www.606v2.com/t55409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-v-the-fun-continues
https://www.606v2.com/t56913p950-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vi-banter-boogaloo

A. Edinburgh
   

1. League Results

Fri 5 Sep: Munster Rugby 13 - 14 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 12 Sep: Edinburgh Rugby 13 - 14 Connacht Rugby

Sun 21 Sep: Ospreys 62 - 13 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 26 Sep: Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 20 Scarlets

Fri 3 Oct: Ulster Rugby 30 - 0 Edinburgh Rugby

Sat 11 Oct: Edinburgh Rugby 24 - 10 Newport Gwent Dragons

Fri 31 Oct: Leinster Rugby 33 - 8 Edinburgh Rugby

Sun 23 Nov: Edinburgh Rugby 28 - 13 Cardiff Blues

Sat 29 Nov: Zebre 18 - 10 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 19 Dec: Edinburgh Rugby 48 - 0 Benetton Treviso

Sat 27 Dec: Glasgow Warriors 16 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 2 Jan: Edinburgh Rugby - 20 - 8 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 9 Jan: Connacht Rugby 13 - 16 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 13 Feb: Edinburgh Rugby 24 - 16 Ospreys

Fri 20 Feb: Edinburgh Rugby 17 - 20 Ulster Rugby

Sun 1 Mar: Cardiff Blues 21 - 15 Edinburgh Rugby

2. European Results

17/10/14: Bordeaux-Begles 13 - 15 Edinburgh Rugby

24/10/14: Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 17 Lyon

7/12/14: Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 13 London Welsh

14/12/14: London Welsh 6 - 24 Edinburgh Rugby

17/01/2015: Lyon 21 - 19 Edinburgh Rugby

23/01/2015: Edinburgh Rugby 38 - 20 Bordeaux-Begles

B. Glasgow


1. League Results

Sat 6 Sep: Glasgow Warriors 22 - 20 Leinster Rugby

Sun 14 Sep: Cardiff Blues 12 - 33 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 20 Sep: Newport Gwent Dragons 13 - 33 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 26 Sep: Glasgow Warriors 39 - 21 Connacht Rugby

Sun 5 Oct: Benetton Treviso 23 - 40 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 11 Oct: Ulster Rugby 29 - 9 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 31 Oct: Glasgow Warriors 17 - 9 Benetton Treviso

Fri 21 Nov: Scarlets 19 - 9 Glasgow Warriors

Sun 30 Nov: Glasgow Warriors 19 - 15 Newport Gwent Dragons

Sat 20 Dec: Glasgow Warriors 21 - 18 Munster Rugby

Sat 27 Dec: Glasgow Warriors 16 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 2 Jan: Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 8 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 9 Jan: Glasgow Warriors 22 - 7 Scarlets

Sun 15 Feb: Zebre 10 - 54 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 21 Feb: Glasgow Warriors 19 - 16 Ospreys

Sat 28 Feb: Munster Rugby 22 - 10 Glasgow Warriors

2. European Results

18/10/14: Glasgow Warriors 37 - 10 Bath Rugby

25/10/14: Montpellier 13 - 15 Glasgow Warriors

7/12/14: Toulouse 19 - 11 Glasgow Warriors

13/12/14: Glasgow Warriors 9 - 12 Toulouse

18/01/2015: Glasgow Warriors 21 - 10 Montpellier

25/01/2015: Bath Rugby 20 - 15 Glasgow Warriors

[Scottish White Line Fever]

The Glasgow website says that he will be taking up an ambassadorial role, "as well as helping to continue the development of Glasgow Warriors. The main focus of his role will be engaging with the rugby and business communities and learning more about the commercial aspect of sport, enabling him to stay connected with the Warriors"

http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/15/04/02/captain-kellock-retire-end-season

[funnyExiledScot]

That sounds like a wonderfully vague role!

[madmaccas]

That sounds like a wonderfully vague role!

Yeah I'd love an 'ambassadorial role' that also involved maintaining the 'culture' of a rugby club. Sounds like he's just being put out to pasture in the bar to entertain corporate guests, do the odd minis coaching session and hang around in the changing room giving (what he thinks) are rousing speeches to future players who won't know who he is.

[funnyExiledScot]

That sounds like a wonderfully vague role!

Yeah I'd love an 'ambassadorial role' that also involved maintaining the 'culture' of a rugby club. Sounds like he's just being put out to pasture in the bar to entertain corporate guests, do the odd minis coaching session and hang around in the changing room giving (what he thinks) are rousing speeches to future players who won't know who he is.

....and his impact on the breakdown at Glasgow matches will remain precisely the same!

[RDW]

It is pretty much what Mossy does for Edinburgh and the SRU, but Mossy is at least involved with coaching as well.

[funnyExiledScot]

....and at least Mossy was a decent player..

[Tattie Scones RRN]

That sounds like a wonderfully vague role!

Yeah I'd love an 'ambassadorial role' that also involved maintaining the 'culture' of a rugby club. Sounds like he's just being put out to pasture in the bar to entertain corporate guests, do the odd minis coaching session and hang around in the changing room giving (what he thinks) are rousing speeches to future players who won't know who he is.

A tad disrespectful don't you think?

Regardless of his playing ability, at least he gave his all to the club and still showing that loyalty in a different capacity.

[madmaccas]

That sounds like a wonderfully vague role!

Yeah I'd love an 'ambassadorial role' that also involved maintaining the 'culture' of a rugby club. Sounds like he's just being put out to pasture in the bar to entertain corporate guests, do the odd minis coaching session and hang around in the changing room giving (what he thinks) are rousing speeches to future players who won't know who he is.

A tad disrespectful don't you think?

Regardless of his playing ability, at least he gave his all to the club and still showing that loyalty in a different capacity.

Not at all! That is the fate of almost all former players. I genuinely like the guy and he's been a true servant to club and country, but memories fade. You can go to any club in the world and there'll be former titans of the team who the young players don't know and don't give two fudges about. I don't know, I just find it quite sad. Were it a full on coaching role it'd be different, it just sounds like it's a pretty soft role as reward for many years of service.

[madmaccas]

Oh just saw Zebre have signed Muliaina. How on earth can they secure an All Black great and we just seem to shuffle players from Edinburgh to Glasgow and announce them as 'big' signings.

I really hope there's something to get excited about soon as all the big teams are announcing things thick and fast.

[cakeordeath]

Really starting to get a bit worried about the gaps appearing in the Glasgow squad and no signings to fill them

[Second Ranker]

I am pretty shocked by the reaction to Big Al's retirement on here. As a young man growing up playing in the second row Al was always a bit of a hero of mine. There was always something about his lack of natural talent but commitment to the cause that was so appealing and the work he has done for the club is unreal. I truly believe that without Al's leadership in the early days the Warriors wouldn't be having the success they are currently having now.
The man's passion and leadership will be sorely missed and I for one consider him Glasgow Warriors greatest ever player.

[funnyExiledScot]

I am pretty shocked by the reaction to Big Al's retirement on here. As a young man growing up playing in the second row Al was always a bit of a hero of mine. There was always something about his lack of natural talent but commitment to the cause that was so appealing and the work he has done for the club is unreal. I truly believe that without Al's leadership in the early days the Warriors wouldn't be having the success they are currently having now.
The man's passion and leadership will be sorely missed and I for one consider him Glasgow Warriors greatest ever player.

We all love him really. As an Edinburgh fan the Ruck Inspector has long been one of my favourite Glasgow players.

[R!skysports]

I am pretty shocked by the reaction to Big Al's retirement on here. As a young man growing up playing in the second row Al was always a bit of a hero of mine. There was always something about his lack of natural talent but commitment to the cause that was so appealing and the work he has done for the club is unreal. I truly believe that without Al's leadership in the early days the Warriors wouldn't be having the success they are currently having now.
The man's passion and leadership will be sorely missed and I for one consider him Glasgow Warriors greatest ever player.

I agree - it really has been a little bit like kicking a man when he is down for certain Coasts of Scotland

Limited in ability at the end, but still a good player and from the sounds of it - a key club member who helps the youngsters integrate into the team and bleeds Warrior

I salute thee...

[InjuredYetAgain]

I don't think even he would claim he was a fantastic player but he did seem to be a great leader. And leadership is an intangible but is definitely something that is sadly lacking in both squads now. Coman does seem to do a reasonable job but we don't have (and never have had as far as I can remember) a Martin Johnson/Paul O'Connel figure who really has a stature, commands respect and who you would willing follow into (proverbial) battle

[funnyExiledScot]

"I'm excited about the next chapter but there are so many things that I'll miss massively, especially the times in the changing room before and after a game."

Snigger.....

[RDW]

I think there's been a bit of an overreaction to the Kellock comments - I can't speak for the posters but I'm sure it was very much tongue in cheek.

And as madmacas clarified - if he's not an actual coach in the making then it is a bit of a soft role for him really.

[funnyExiledScot]

I think there's been a bit of an overreaction to the Kellock comments - I can't speak for the posters but I'm sure it was very much tongue in cheek.

And as madmacas clarified - if he's not an actual coach in the making then it is a bit of a soft role for him really.

My comments weren't.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

You really are a classy guy fES. A guy (AK) who gave his all for club and country and you in a typically snide way cannot appreciate or even acknowledge this. Pathetic tbh.

[Majestic83]

I think there's been a bit of an overreaction to the Kellock comments - I can't speak for the posters but I'm sure it was very much tongue in cheek.

And as madmacas clarified - if he's not an actual coach in the making then it is a bit of a soft role for him really.

I think eventually he will get into coaching the Warriors. The best coaches always say it's a bad idea to go from playing for your team to then coaching it straight away. I think he'll be given this role for a couple years and then get into coaching.

Chris paterson's role has been pretty much the same, in fact him and kellock have been working together quite a bit at rugby events over the past year or so. The amount of coaching Paterson is doing is increasing and he is getting more involved in that side so think it will be a similar route for kellock.

[Imperialbigdave]

You really are a classy guy fES.   A guy (AK) who gave his all for club and country and you in a typically snide way cannot appreciate or even acknowledge this.     Pathetic tbh.

I do believe I smell the reek of hypocrisy. As usual the man who does little apart from sticking the boot into players and fans from other clubs, can't handle someone not fawning over his beloved ruck inspector.

[funnyExiledScot]

I think there's been a bit of an overreaction to the Kellock comments - I can't speak for the posters but I'm sure it was very much tongue in cheek.

And as madmacas clarified - if he's not an actual coach in the making then it is a bit of a soft role for him really.

I think eventually he will get into coaching the Warriors. The best coaches always say it's a bad idea to go from playing for your team to then coaching it straight away. I think he'll be given this role for a couple years and then get into coaching.

Chris paterson's role has been pretty much the same, in fact him and kellock have been working together quite a bit at rugby events over the past year or so. The amount of coaching Paterson is doing is increasing and he is getting more involved in that side so think it will be a similar route for kellock.

I agree with this - difficult to be objective about players you know well and have played with. I also prefer to see ex-players do a bit more of an apprenticeship rather than going straight into professional coaching. Perhaps he could do a couple of years at London Scottish for example, experience coaching in a different league and different level of player.

[funnyExiledScot]

You really are a classy guy fES.   A guy (AK) who gave his all for club and country and you in a typically snide way cannot appreciate or even acknowledge this.     Pathetic tbh.

[InjuredYetAgain]

You really are a classy guy fES.   A guy (AK) who gave his all for club and country and you in a typically snide way cannot appreciate or even acknowledge this.     Pathetic tbh.

Chin up Fes. I am sure that such comments are a blow to your self-esteem but after a couple of days of hiding from the outside world, I am confident you will recover fully

[funnyExiledScot]

Thanks IYA. I just hate myself right now.

The Glasgow faithful are nothing but charming and complimentary, particularly about Edinburgh players, and I just continuously lower the tone and make insentitive remarks. A World Class player has just retired, and the time is now to show some God damn respect for all he has achieved in the game. All the Pro12 titles, the 6 Nations titles, the Lions caps and those wonderful stirring MOTM performances that will live long in the memory.

I just hope that when I retire people can stand up and say "that man always tried his best, gave 100% nay 110%, and was Stockbridge through and through".

I say we build and dedicate a statue at Scotstoun to the man. Standing at the side of a ruck, one arm in the air with a menacing look on his face, with the Kellock leadership motto "come on lads" engraved on the side. I will make sure I bow to it at Christmas on my way out, after Edinburgh retain the 1872 Cup.

[InjuredYetAgain]

I, too, have been through periods of self-doubt following exchanges with our Weegie cousins. It cost me a ruddy fortune in counselling and psycho-therapy. It is something that I have talked to my stable boys and gardeners about and they don't understand the animosity. Oh, and they agree that Kellock was a good leader but not a real top notch player

[InjuredYetAgain]

Really good article by Gregor Townsend in his Scotsman column http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/gregor-townsend-momentum-factor-in-momentous-match-1-3735991.
He seems to be really open to ideas from outside rugby and doesn't seem blinkered. Quite refreshing in this day and age

[funnyExiledScot]

I, too, have been through periods of self-doubt following exchanges with our Weegie cousins. It cost me a ruddy fortune in counselling and psycho-therapy.  It is something that I have talked to my stable boys and gardeners about and they don't understand the animosity.  Oh, and they agree that Kellock was a good leader but not a real top notch player

How very dare they!! Turn the heating off in their lodgings for a month for besmirching the great man.

I'm trying to think of an equivalent Scotland player in terms of quality to Al Kellock, just so that I can ensure that I don't mourn in black for an overly long period and set an inappropriate precedent, and it's actually quite hard. I'd perhaps put him in the same bracket as Iain Fullarton.

[jimbopip]

Oh, Fester Fester. You really are letting yourself down here. Big All was the heart and soul of a side who have climbed from mediocrity to title contenders, on the pitch, and to a very professional outfit off the pitch. Your Western cousins revere him for his honesty and willingness to lead from the front. Bear in mind that his fellow players at Glasgow hold him in the highest regard: that should tell you all you need to know.
p.s. There is no truth in the rumour that His Alness is suing the SRU for repetitive strain injury. Apparently lifting the 1872 trophy on all those occasions pinched a nerve in his shoulder.

[funnyExiledScot]

Oh, Fester Fester. You really are letting yourself down here. Big All was the heart and soul of a side who have climbed from mediocrity to title contenders, on the pitch, and to a very professional outfit off the pitch. Your Western cousins revere him for his honesty and willingness to lead from the front. Bear in mind that his fellow players at Glasgow hold him in the highest regard: that should tell you all you need to know.
p.s. There is no truth in the rumour that His Alness is suing the SRU for repetitive strain injury. Apparently lifting the 1872 trophy on all those occasions pinched a nerve in his shoulder.

Presumably because what he does with himself in his own time is his lookout....

[jimbopip]

Ah but Fes we can't all have hired help to do those things for us.

p.s. With the departures of Hall, Welsh, Kellock and Munro (also G Beveridge) I am concerned that the old guard are being moved on. Fine if the culture is strong enough to withstand the changes in personnel and still retain the club identity. Remaining the Warriors' ethos will be just as important as recruiting star names.

[IanBru]

Goodness me, MFLs and gentlemen, I go away for a couple weeks and return to find the world has caved in!

As the internet in the new flat in Jesmond (for those unfamiliar with Newcastle, picture Morningside or Jordanhill, but with the added hilarity of people pronouncing "San Pellegrino") is now working, I can finally re-enter this den of iniquity.

By way of update, I just had my first week as a trainee, which essentially involved the partner from down the hall walking into my hovel (I don't get a window), asking "Ian, do you have a minute?", me replying "Why yes, Paul, of course I have a minute. I mean, I don't have access to the firm's intranet, the Land Registry website or any of the online databases required to help you, I don't have a stapler, and my hole-punch seems to make three holes, which I'm sure was in fashion back when Harold Wilson was in power, but I'll do my best.", him explaining some bizarre property transaction that might just be severely illegal and then asking me a question about it, and me desperately resisting the urge to reply "Um... Paul, is there any chance you could say all of that again, maybe three or four times, while I find a pen and notepad? Thanks.".

Anyway, I'm still alive. As they say, any landing you walk away from is a good one.

_______________

So, to the subject at hand, Mr Kellock. I really don't think anyone is saying he's the best player ever. Sure, he won 56 Scotland caps and captained us at a world cup. Yeah, he also beat Australia twice, both of which were extraordinary defensive efforts. So far, so what, right?

For me, he's a great because he was an ever-present force throughout Glasgow's transformation from whipping boys to being the dominant force in Scottish rugby, and genuine challengers for the league title. It's fair to say that Glasgow Warriors as an institution are an expression of him as a person.

All clubs have those players, the ones who stay, the ones who are steeped in the club, and who shape it in their image. There's James Eddie, Roddy Grant, James Simpson-Daniel, A W Jones, Mark Lambert. They are the club they play for.

Some players' greatness can be summed up with stats, with a Youtube highlights video that ignores the context and concentrates purely on the moments of greatness. For me, when looking at Al Kellock and thinking about 'greatness', I don't think of particular moments, I just look at where Glasgow are now, and consider how much of that is down to him.

Cheers Al.

[funnyExiledScot]

I think with Brown, Grant, Gray, Harley, Strauss, Russell, Dunbar, Bennett, Seymour and Hogg you have a nucleus of strong players, most of whom have only played for Glasgow and will firmly understand what is required to keep things ticking over. There is a bit of a changing of the guard going on, but that offers as much an opportunity as anything else.

Glasgow will be ok. I'm not convinced that with the players leaving you can expect to top the table next year, but I do think Glasgow will continue as a play-off side, and if Gray, Russell and Bennett continue to progress as they have so far (and most importantly stay), then you'll have three top international players to build a side around.

[funnyExiledScot]

All clubs have those players, the ones who stay, the ones who are steeped in the club, and who shape it in their image. There's James Eddie, Roddy Grant, James Simpson-Daniel, A W Jones, Mark Lambert. They are the club they play for.

Some players' greatness can be summed up with stats, with a Youtube highlights video that ignores the context and concentrates purely on the moments of greatness. For me, when looking at Al Kellock and thinking about 'greatness', I don't think of particular moments, I just look at where Glasgow are now, and consider how much of that is down to him.

Cheers Al.

Would now be a bad time to remind you that he spent 1/3 of his career at Edinburgh......

[jimbopip]

Mr Bru, we have missed your eloquence. Welcome back. How are the stones?
However, I am now on my way to A&E with a dislocated jaw. That'll teach me to try to say "San Pellegrino" in a Geordie accent.
So, you have the flat. Good man. Start decorating the spare room in soothing colours and padding the walls for when Schiz comes to visit. Then make sure you have lots of spare tickets for Scotland's World Cup matches... Jesmond isn't that big and I'm sure your neighbours will direct us to your deluxe penthouse. By us I mean everyone who has ever posted on here. Obviously.

[funnyExiledScot]

By way of update, I just had my first week as a trainee, which essentially involved the partner from down the hall walking into my hovel (I don't get a window), asking "Ian, do you have a minute?", me replying "Why yes, Paul, of course I have a minute. I mean, I don't have access to the firm's intranet, the Land Registry website or any of the online databases required to help you, I don't have a stapler, and my hole-punch seems to make three holes, which I'm sure was in fashion back when Harold Wilson was in power, but I'll do my best.", him explaining some bizarre property transaction that might just be severely illegal and then asking me a question about it, and me desperately resisting the urge to reply "Um... Paul, is there any chance you could say all of that again, maybe three or four times, while I find a pen and notepad? Thanks.".

Anyway, I'm still alive. As they say, any landing you walk away from is a good one.

Oh the joys of being a trainee. The partner I sat with in my first seat had a papier mache pig on his desk, which his son had made for him at school. It didn't really look like a pig at all. Whilst he was out of the office I was messing about with it and the head fell off. With the help of the team secretary, and five staples, we put the head back on. It fell off on a conference call the following week which both me and him were on. As a result of the staples it was clear to him that someone had damaged it and tried to fix it without telling him. He sent a group wide email asking someone to fess up. I did. He did not offer me a job at the end of my seat.

[jimbopip]

All clubs have those players, the ones who stay, the ones who are steeped in the club, and who shape it in their image. There's James Eddie, Roddy Grant, James Simpson-Daniel, A W Jones, Mark Lambert. They are the club they play for.

Some players' greatness can be summed up with stats, with a Youtube highlights video that ignores the context and concentrates purely on the moments of greatness. For me, when looking at Al Kellock and thinking about 'greatness', I don't think of particular moments, I just look at where Glasgow are now, and consider how much of that is down to him.

Cheers Al.

Would now be a bad time to remind you that he spent 1/3 of his career at Edinburgh......

Merely sharpened his appetite for success.
Rather like St Paul spending his early life persecuting Christians, big Al had his years in the wilderness in order to fully appreciate the earthly paradise that packing down alongside Big Naka truly is.

[funnyExiledScot]

Mr Bru, we have missed your eloquence. Welcome back. How are the stones?
However, I am now on my way to A&E with a dislocated jaw. That'll teach me to try to say "San Pellegrino" in a Geordie accent.
So, you have the flat. Good man. Start decorating the spare room in soothing colours and padding the walls for when Schiz comes to visit. Then make sure you have lots of spare tickets for Scotland's World Cup matches... Jesmond isn't that big and I'm sure your neighbours will direct us to your deluxe penthouse. By us I mean everyone who has ever posted on here. Obviously.

I echo these thoughts, and thanks for the invite Mr Bru. I'll be coming to the Scotland vs Samoa game, and was wondering where I could stay. Sorted. Oh, by the way, I travel with an entourage.

[funnyExiledScot]

I am so blatantly the only person on here working today!!

[lostinwales]

...

For me, he's a great because he was an ever-present force throughout Glasgow's transformation from whipping boys to being the dominant force in Scottish rugby, and genuine challengers for the league title. It's fair to say that Glasgow Warriors as an institution are an expression of him as a person.

....

Sadly that isnt exactly a long journey

[funnyExiledScot]

...

For me, he's a great because he was an ever-present force throughout Glasgow's transformation from whipping boys to being the dominant force in Scottish rugby, and genuine challengers for the league title. It's fair to say that Glasgow Warriors as an institution are an expression of him as a person.

....

Sadly that isnt exactly a long journey

It also isn't true. Glasgow may well be league leaders, but the 1872 Cup (contested between Edinburgh and Glasgow) is currently back home where it belongs.

[highland_scot]

I am so blatantly the only person on here working today!!

Nope...

Currently trying to manically get my project work done before going on holiday.

Meanwhile the other (prettier) half is pestering asking why I'm working on a bank holiday and can't we go out and do something fun... Who knew spreadsheets don't count as fun?!

Of course, our unwashed brethren in the west only know it's a holiday because the benefit office is shut.

[funnyExiledScot]

Glad to hear someone else is in the office!

[BigGee]

I see Mike Cussack is on the bench for Currie in the club semi final game on Saturday. Good to see that they are pushing his gametime. I would have thought he would have needed a really long rest after his mammoth 70 min stint against Leinster last weekend. Maybe he will feature in the run in as well against expectations and put himself into the TH mix for the WC.

[funnyExiledScot]

It would really bother me if I were an amateur loosie in that league and found out that I'd be facing Mike Cusack!!

[BigGee]

It would really bother me if I were an amateur loosie in that league and found out that I'd be facing Mike Cusack!!

[BigGee]

It would really bother me if I were an amateur loosie in that league and found out that I'd be facing Mike Cusack!!

Yes it would definitely require a change of shorts at half time!

Seriously though, that would be such a mismatch that you can only imagine he has to go easy on them, or someone could get hurt.

[funnyExiledScot]

It's likely the opposition loosie will either be giving Cusack a 4+ stone head start, or be extremely fat!!

I'd have an ambulance on standby!

[VinceWLB]

Sutherland was playing at this level last season and adapted to the pro game like a duck to water, i'm pretty sure the missmatch wouldn't be as big as you think.

[BigGee]

Sutherland was playing at this level last season and adapted to the pro game like a duck to water, i'm pretty sure the missmatch wouldn't be as big as you think.

The exception rather than the rule!

[VinceWLB]

Sutherland was playing at this level last season and adapted to the pro game like a duck to water, i'm pretty sure the missmatch wouldn't be as big as you think.

The exception rather than the rule!

Possibly but when you see Italian semi amateur teams in the challenge cup you will notice the area where they are not so bad is often the scrum, there is a lot of fat boys who can scrummage, where they are generally lacking is in speed and the ability to actually run for more than 5 minutes!

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