New League - what would get you involved?

A lot of the old leagues have died off and there is a general sense of apathy towards the old styles.

This page is for anyone and everyone, past, present and future, to put down their ideas and thoughts of what should or shouldn't be in the old league. It is free form and no idea or criticism is a bad one. Lets get something going and breathe a bit of life into the old dog.

What things did you like in the previous leagues?
What things put you off in previous leagues?
What fresh ideas have you got for a new league?
What would definately stop you joining?
Plus any other things that spring to mind.

And remember to respect others ideas and opinions. It is okay to not agree with someone else, but any criticism needs to be constructive and have justification. Any bullying, bickering or just generally being disrespectful will be deleted.

OK. I'll start.

I like the sue of TM.com for the valuations. Although it is not 100%, it takes out opinion and subjectivity from TPs

I also like the fact that we discussed all the potential rules and came to a general agreement before we started, so everyone was onboard with them from the start (although that didn't stop complaints).

I disliked doing votes, but not sure how you get around that

I also didn't like the regular bickering and bullying between opposing managers. I believe any new league should have sanctions for this kind of behaviour, such as points deductions or fines.

Regarding the fresh ideas for a new league - I really like the idea of a World Cup Fantasy League that Trebs suggested in a previous thread, especially if it's a one off.

Tactics; Personally, I would like to see either a word limit or a maximum number of bullet points to shorten time spent on tactics

Votes; Agree with you here, I wouldn't mind so much if it was just a quick score with either a sentence reflecting on the match, or pointing out why you voted for whatever you did.

Gossip Column: Pinching this idea from Hero here, but he introduced a Gossip Column thread that would be updated on a weekly basis, some of the names linked to your team meant you had more of a chance of buying players, but if we were to do a World Cup Theme, this wouldn't be as effective

I also like Treb's World Cup idea.

The way its done on JA606, where the league I'm in has been going without rebooting for years, is there are a few runners and on rotation and on games not involving them, they read the tactics and decide on the results that way.

It may not be the absolute fairest way to do things, but it would eliminate the need for voting/feedback.

What things did you like in the previous leagues?
Banter. Constant posting by most of the managers. Having a laugh. The league itself was always secondary to that. It looks to me like the posts since I left have mainly been related to the game, rather than laughing at each other / Man United. That's what's missing, and what needs to come back.

What things put you off in previous leagues?
I'll be honest, it's the amount of time that the league takes. Plus one manager obviously. If we could cut down on the time required on tactics/voting, that would instantly re-ignite people's interests.

What fresh ideas have you got for a new league?
I like the idea of no voting, but a neutral manager assesses the games and gives scores plus detailed feedback. If we all took a turn one week, then it's one week of heavy 'voting' and free time the rest.

I think we should go back to real teams too. The idea of real teams, then using TM, is that you slowly but surely build up a team of your own. When you draft a team, you start with your own team then don't want to sell/trade. Forced Lawyers is a horrendous idea. It means you have to part with players you've specifically signed. I hated that motion.

- One neutral manager doing all votes one week. I'd like to see goal scorers, assists, yellow cards too. Not reds though, too subjective/arbitrary.
- Real teams, no supplementary draft, slow TM increases
- Lawyers are +20%, no forced ones, you can either have two random ones or one nominated one (allows you to slowly replace the crud)
- Injuries are 1 per week, plus 1 who has a knock. If it's Gerrard, and he's up against Pastore and Verratti, he's going to suffer, as is your team. If it's Glen Johnson, and they don't play wingers / a poor winger, he's going to be okay. Means you have to assess your opponent and take a gamble potentially.
- Tactics are a starting XI, subs, two brief lines of instructions (not lengthy instructions for each player)
- A rumour mill is a must, it's always good.
- Weekly Sheep has to be re-instated. Maybe if you did the voting the week before, you run sheep the week after?

Just a few to start us off

What would definitely stop you joining?
I think we all know the answer to this one.

Plus any other things that spring to mind.
Apparently I'm not allergic to cheese. Took my mother 30 years to tell me. Thanks Mum.

Voting was always a pain.

Tbh I just don't think people are that interested anymore. Participation always drops after a few weeks.

I think if someone (Nando or Marky) gave out real money as a reward for tactics and votes, more people would participate

Seems fair.

By which I mean not fair.

Tbf I agree with Azzy on the banter issue. The leagues lately have been pretty much all business.

Speaking of which, any more special offers at the salon Azzy?

I'm willing to manage again, but as always what kept me around was the general chit chat. I think it's more important than the actual game.

If I were to take part, I'd like voting and tactics to be minimal. Not tiny, but more manageable.

Possibly take Trebs World Cup idea, dole out the sides randomly plus a small budget on top and start a league from there. Random sides encourages people to sell. No TM limit?

10% lawyers, none forced. 2-3 injuries. Few lines of how your team will lineup and play. For voting, a score and a sentence saying why.

No CF

Perhaps a rule of no commenting on other teams unless feedback is requested.

Do you even need transfers in a world cup game? Would be good if could pick your own 23 man squad tbh.

Draft system, 25 pots of players with an agreed time for everyone to be about for the draft and go onto the chatbox to speed it up.

Voting buttons to decide scores that are only accessible by those in the league.

Drafting would be fun, but I'd worry it'd be too fun and then people will be underwhelmed by the day to day management game bit.

It seemed like every few weeks people wanted a total reboot.

The idea wasn't to have a world cup game, just to start with world cup squads.

Lawyers have to be forced IMO, and should be equal to TM Value. Otherwise squads get too settled and too strong.

There was a manager game around a year ago which worked really well.

You have the top 12 teams (Barca, Madrid, Bayern etc.) and you manage each side for two weeks, attempting to improve it. At the end of the two week period you were given a mark out of ten for your job. These were then added to get the best overall manager. No tactics at all, no matches, just wheeling and dealing.

I tend to agree with Azzy tbh. I don't like being forced to sell a player.

Perhaps start with 1 TP and an additional one for each lawyer accepted.

Personally i can't say i like any of them ideas tbh Trebs. I like to build a side and disbanding after 2 weeks does not appeal.

Ultimately it needs to encourage deals, and managers have to be able to feel they can improve their side consistently.

Therefore lawyers have to be above TM value IMO so that you can use that cash to buy better.

I'm not for or against forced lawyers tbh, it just means you have to be able to have to cast your net a bit wider to replace like for like.

The problem is the TP limit doesn't move fast enough to replace properly so people hold onto their and people ask for lawyer equiv if not more for there players so despite the money nothing really happens.

I'm in

Wait Azzy has returned?

Olly wrote:I'm in

Dude, there is nothing to be in for yet, this is about feedback and crafting a glorious return for the v2 Euro Division.

What needs outlining then?

Squad Selection
Tactics
Votes
TP Rules
Lawyers
Injuries
Social Participation

sodhat wrote:

Olly wrote:I'm in

Dude, there is nothing to be in for yet, this is about feedback and crafting a glorious return for the v2 Euro Division.

Or is that Olly announcing his cherry being popped.....

My thoughts:

1. No more drafting, it stunts transfer activity and in a way is more fun than the actual managing stuff. So the day to day gets lost in the desire for more drafts.

2. Tactics should be shorter and easier to read. Sensibly we need a hard and fast limit. Otherwise they grow and grow to mad opuses on playing a Christmas tree formation.

3. Votes and feedback are always a problem. Keep it focussed on areas for teams to improve. No one enjoys it but it has to be done and short tactics make it more bearable.

4. TP rules are fine to be based on TM as far as I'm concerned because it's less management and easier.

5. Lawyers should be forced on anyone. Squad limits should be maintained so you can't build a mega squad, but selling players you don't want to has gone down like Olly's mum at a swingers night so far.

6. I'm all for longer term injuries. Equally I don't care enough to fight the week to week stuff, it just requires more managing.

Maybe no TP limit but you only get a cash boost 1-2 times a season

Here are the votes of the London Jury:

Squad Selection - real teams, low value (ie Norwich, QPR, Basel etc).

Tactics - agree a format and max length.

Votes - rotating neutral vote. Each week there are two managers who don't have a game - one does voting, the other runs Sheep and the Rumour Mill.

TP Rules - start low, I like £0.5m increases each week. Loved the suggestion of 1 TP per week, but an extra one for each Lawyer offer accepted.

Lawyers - I like 2 per week random, or 1 nominated.

Injuries - I like my idea, but that complicates things. Why not keep with 2 per week?

Social Participation - seems like we're already getting this back

TheSecondComing wrote:

Votes - rotating neutral vote. Each week there are two managers who don't have a game - one does voting, the other runs Sheep and the Rumour Mill.

That's a good idea. If we set the rota well in advance then we don't have to accept excuses like "I've got guests" or "I'm CF lol".

Problem is, will the votes being a product of one person be a recipe for someone basically saying they're cheating or have an agenda. Say they give their title rivals a defeat... Perhaps we can have one constant "tactics guru" who oversees it each week to makes moderate and ensure no foul play?

You'd be better off with 2-3 people voting per week than just 1 imo. Keeps some anonymity to prevent tantrums and normalises it.

Can't youjust programme some software that takes in the tactics of each team and spits out a result for us GSC?

Come on, you used to drive a train for God's sake, this would be a cakewalk.

Perhaps a 3 person panel. Majority rules (i.e 2 win votes = a win, 2 draw votes = a draw. 1 win for each side + a draw vote = a draw). Simpler criteria and less whining about goal votes.

We'll put the tactics in FM 2014 and see who wins.

Picked that up for less than a tenner on steam

TP Rules - no limit, but cash is limited, so saving up required for big names

Lawyers - keep it simple - 2 per week, based on the Euro value on TM.com

Injuries - again, keep it simple, 2,3,4 per week, no partial injuries or anything that complicates things

Votes - I like the thought of 1 or 2 managers not having a fixture, so doing the votes/sheep/rumour mill that week.

Social participation - manager who does the votes or sheep that week, awards a poster of the week for the manager and that manager gets a cash bonus. Would be awarded to the manager who has contributed most to the non-league based banter that week

I prefer 3 if its workable, just so you can get a majority.

GSC wrote:We'll put the tactics in FM 2014 and see who wins.

Picked that up for less than a tenner on steam

It's crap sometimes mate. You need to have the right team for your tactics or it goes jubblies up. I've been sacked so many times on it, I've only been a success in like 3 jobs...

It doesn't like a sweeper system, I'll tell you that.

GSC wrote:I prefer 3 if its workable, just so you can get a majority.

Works for me.

Why not do the version that they do on Ja so that there's a pot for scoring.

20 slots

5 for tactics (this can be split so if 1 player has slightly better tactics they get 3, the other person gets 2)
5 for players (can be split too)
4 for formation (can be split too)
2 for home form
4 for draw

A random draw site is then used 3 times, if Player A wins all three they get a walk over score of 3 or 4 nil.
If a player wins 2-1 in pots then its a narrow win.
If it's a pot each and a draw pot then guess what...

Tbh I'd just have 3 people, each vote on the game with brief feedback.

Majority rules. Its simple and no complaining (in theory)

There will be complaining. At some stage someone will complain.

But then they'd complain whatever method was used...

You have to give them something to complain about, otherwise they'd just complain

I'm with the real teams thing, I like the draft but I don't want to trade my guys and it just becomes boring

I have no idea what Hero just wrote, but I don't mind voting so long as its short and sweet/ sort of a good/bad point and general point in the game

Social wise I say we cull Bull

Problem with having three people voting is that you actually need four people, because unless you cancel two games each week, the third person will be voting on their own game...

I'm honest enough to vote fairly. If I'm voting on the last round of games, and Afro can win the league from me, then CF puts together a rubbish team, I'd give Affers the win. No question. There's no-one in this league I'd want to see deliberately lose.

Plus, the feedback can be more detailed if it's just one person.

TheSecondComing wrote:Problem with having three people voting is that you actually need four people, because unless you cancel two games each week, the third person will be voting on their own game...

Or you have an odd number of managers

As opposed to a number of odd managers, which we already have covered

Real life teams with no draft seems a popular shout. Which teams?