Saints v Tigers

First topic message reminder :

Didn't see a match thread so thought I'd create one. What are peoples predictions?

I can see us losing, it's a shame we had a few players missing. Allen being the main one.

Dayglo is so anti Tigers lol

Well done Saints, well deserved. You've been better than us all season.

Well done Saints. What a game that was.

nathan wrote:Dayglo is so anti Tigers lol

Been having internet problems, not good if you have BT television, so haven't had a chance to read the previous posts yet.

WELL DONE YOU SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was it my blatant bias, or did Doyle have an absolute shocker. From what I saw and pieced together from recording it, he let Tigers get away with murder and there is no better side in the AP than Tigers at pushing the ref to his limits, Saints are miles behind them and Sarries at playing to what the ref will allow. When ever Saints got close there were more white shirts on the Saints side than greens, always just impeding, nothing blatant.

At least two more yellows should have gone Tigers way, but what competitors, they never give up and fight for every inch or ground.

I am beginning to agree with Healey about replying every event, why bother with a ref, let the 4th official ref it from the tv room.


                        

i think if Dickson was on earlier Saints would of won it by more

To be fair even if Dayglo was pro Saints (I don't think he was), Healy was very pro Tigers. Really enjoyed the match and was pleased Saints won. Tigers were very cynical throughout the game. Epic play by both sides though.

Great game that.

Glad we won, did not want to post this as a bad loser, but thought that although Salesi's red card was deserved that tom youngsters threw the first punch and should have gone as well.

Also Bowden and Goneva (twice) should have seen a second yellow, but I am so made up that Saints have won through and respect to Tigers for such a great game and such a great advertisement for not just English rugby but rugby as a whole

I thought Doyle was good. As I said earlier I thought Tigers got the better of him but I wanted Saints to win...so he was probably fair. I did think he was looking for reasons not to give another yellow to Tigers to the red. But I thought it was pretty harsh on Youngs and probably only happened because the other guy had red.

Just to add that Clarke was also a lucky boy, had he of made contact with those knees he could have gone as well, think it may be an assist from Corbs that pushed him away from the second attempt that helped it not connect.

Baz75 wrote:Glad we won, did not want to post this as a bad loser, but thought that although Salesi's red card was deserved that tom youngsters threw the first punch and should have gone as well.

Also Bowden and Goneva (twice) should have seen a second yellow, but I am so made up that Saints have won through and respect to Tigers for such a great game and such a great advertisement for not just English rugby but rugby as a whole

Tom Youngs made no punches. He didn't have any clenched fists. He also didn't instigate it. Salesi did with a palm to his face, I thought it was harsh on t. youngs to get a yellow

You can't give a card unless you are 100% sure, Firstly Goneva didnt know he had hit the ball with his foot and thought it was his throw in - still he shouldn't of tackled Clark. Second one there was no camera angle to show he didn't use his arm - so i'm not sure how you can card someone with inconclusive evidence.

Bowdens was fine too, his eyes were always on the ball until after he jumped, by which time you can't change direction. The commentators were talking about the outcome as if that was the only deciding factor, which is wrong. If the player is deemed to have made an attempt to get the ball, i.e jumps and eyes are on the ball then it's fine.

Check the footage again youngs definitely strikes out and catches him on the back of the head,can't be sure that it was a fist but probably hard enough to make Ma'fu think he was being attacked and made lash out. But still no defence to what he did and was rightly red carded, but still think that that was enough for at least a yellow for youngs (maybe red).

As for Goneva he must of felt the ball touch his boot, so must have known there was at least a chance he was the last player to touch the ball before it went out of play, and absolutely no reason why he had to tackle a player outside of the field of play, maybe give him the benefit of doubt with the Myler tackle (although not sure Cockers would have done if it had been the other way!).

As for Bowden, fine give him the benefit of the doubt, eyes on the ball until he realises he isn't going to get to the ball then he takes the player out in the air. Just hope when it is Tait or Williams being taken
Out it similar circumstances next time by a Clarke or a Hartley there is no complaints.

Like I said , Clarke could have easily connected with his knees on Goneva and it would have been no way back for 13 against 15.

How exactly do we know Gonava didn't know he had hit the ball? That was the call but I would bet that it would had been yellow if he hadn't already been carded.

Bowden was close but think he knew he wouldn't make it as he jumped. Although did the right thing and jumped. If he hadn't Foden would have been much more likely to tip and it would have been more dangerous. It could have been yellow but that would have been harsh.

Looked to me that Gonava didn't use his right arm at all and put his shoulder into him love down. It's funny how these aren't classed as tip tackles even though he took the legs and Myler cartwheeled onto his neck (? Can't remember how he landed). This was the clearest yellow IMO but still wasn't a certainty for the reason you gave.

If Saints had lost they could probably have felt aggrieved that none were yellow. But they won so who cares?

What a fantastically committed game, it was a real pleasure to watch. Full credit to Saints to come from behind with a man down too.

Couple of points though, I do feel that Mallinder needs to address the balance of his back row. Salvi didn't deserve to be on the losing side and he dominates the breakdown. No Saints backrow player came close and I do feel this will hinder them truly threatening the big boys. Saints looked a fr better side when Dickson came on and I really feel they need to start him in the final. Also, I have never understood Saints obsession with kicking to the corner as they seem to rarely convert the opportunities. It would be interesting to see the stats of how many points they score from going to the corner in comparison to what they could have had from kicks. I strongly suggest they would score more via kicks, especially against the top sides.

Finally I have to say BT's commentary was as bad as its ever been tonight. Healey was so blatantly bias and clearly wasn't watching the game with his bizarre comments about the play. I found it very ironic that all commentators were glorifying the intensity of the game, especially when it boiled over. I thought Healey laughing at Clark's knee was a prime example. It was very fortunate there weren't more cards yet this nature of the game was deemed acceptable. Rewind to Glaws v Bath and it was suddenly a dark day for rugby. The BT team are not objective and the Leicester bias is somewhat tedious.

Nevertheless it was a great game and well done Saints.

Calum Clark really is a grade A trombone soloist isn't he.
Here's a screenshot of his now deleted post game tweet

Was the BT commentary really that biased? I know Healey was getting excited when he thought Clarke has kneed someone but he enjoys a bit of rough - he did as a player especially in the local derby.

As with all the incidents he called it when first seeing it, then if he got it wrong he changed his mind. He even said Leicester deserved a yellow a couple of times - hardly being biased in my view.

Baz75 wrote:Check the footage again youngs definitely strikes out and catches him on the back of the head,can't be sure that it was a fist but probably hard enough to make Ma'fu think he was being attacked and made lash out. But still no defence to what he did and was rightly red carded, but still think that that was enough for at least a yellow for youngs (maybe red).

As for Goneva he must of felt the ball touch his boot, so must have known there was at least a chance he was the last player to touch the ball before it went out of play, and absolutely no reason why he had to tackle a player outside of the field of play, maybe give him the benefit of doubt with the Myler tackle (although not sure Cockers would have done if it had been the other way!).

As for Bowden, fine give him the benefit of the doubt, eyes on the ball until he realises he isn't going to get to the ball then he takes the player out in the air. Just hope when it is Tait or Williams being taken
Out it similar circumstances next time by a Clarke or a Hartley there is no complaints.

Like I said , Clarke could have easily connected with his knees on Goneva and it would have been no way back for 13 against 15.

Why must he have felt the ball? He was running at full tilt to make a tackle where he then rolled out to touch. The hit him on his toes, that could of been the player hitting his foot.

Really good game. I thought Doyle did quite well in the circumstances.

As they said on the commentary, Dickson made a huge difference when he came on. Added much needed tempo to Saints.

Coming back from 6-17 to win 21-20 took a lot of guts by Saints.

beshocked wrote:Really good game.  I thought Doyle did quite well in the circumstances.

As they said on the commentary, Dickson made a huge difference when he came on. Added much needed tempo to Saints.

Coming back from 6-17 to win 21-20 took a lot of guts by Saints.

I thought Doyle did well too considering the game, it's a shame that some people can't recognise this as without Doyle we wouldn't of had a really good game.

Doyle was definitely very good. He's had some stick from some quarters but I've always thought he was pretty good.

As for the commentary, I didn't notice any bias. The BT team is usually very other (other than LD with Wasps). Healey is an excellent commentator IMO, especially when paired with Kay. Great balance with each other.

nathan wrote:

beshocked wrote:Really good game.  I thought Doyle did quite well in the circumstances.

As they said on the commentary, Dickson made a huge difference when he came on. Added much needed tempo to Saints.

Coming back from 6-17 to win 21-20 took a lot of guts by Saints.

I thought Doyle did well too considering the game, it's a shame that some people can't recognise this as without Doyle we wouldn't of had a really good game.

I thought Doyle did well too, with the exception of the two occasions that he should have given Goneva a second yellow in the second half. Other than that I thought he got everything spot on.

ooooof!

Yeah, I think Mallinder was a little hopeful over saying they had to wait and see what happens with him. Without doubt he'll have a couple of weeks ban.

Saints in the finals...............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OnMd47ZfWQ

doctor_grey wrote:Saints in the finals...............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OnMd47ZfWQ

How longs it taken? hehe just kidding, Well done!!

It could be your year if Sarries beat Quins, with Sarries playing in the HC final.

Well done Saints. Had a baaaad feeling about the game about 10 mins into the second half when I think we lost the plot. But as Cockers said post match it's a young squad and has a lot of learning to do. Best of luck in the final.

Saints just can't make anything easy.  Jeez, how 'bout once or twice?  Like next weekend and the one after?  

Probably will have to do without Ma'afu.  What was he thinking?  Had the yellow against Youngs in the bank, but had to strike back.  Twaddle.  
Good thing we have this reserve prop in the mix - Corbs-something.  On the other side of the scrum, but hopefully he can develop into a somewhat useful player in the big games..........

Waller like extremely peed at being subbed...which is a good thing. Will Corbisiero go tighthead has Mercy is crap? From what Mallinder was saying I think we'll be seeing a weakened team for the CC final.

HammerofThunor wrote:Waller like extremely peed at being subbed...which is a good thing. Will Corbisiero go tighthead has Mercy is crap? From what Mallinder was saying I think we'll be seeing a weakened team for the CC final.

Team needs some rotation.  Corbs shouldn't play on Friday night.  Saving the best for Sarries or Quins.  Team looks very tired.  

By the way, a common thread between the Leinster win in Dublin and the match yeaterday is 19 year old Tom Collins.  The lad has a future.  Totally unfazed by these big situations.  With Jamie Elliott and Tom Collins, I am feeling good about the future on the wings.  And then there is that North lad.  Pretty uselful as well.

I think Mallinder needs to do a better job if Saints are going to beat Sarries/Quins. He should of brought Dickson on far earlier. I believe Saints would of won far easier if they had. Kahn was playing rubbish and was responsible for a fair bit of what Saints did wrong.

Dickson's been injured though hasn't he? I wonder if he's being managed to make the final. If he doesn't play at all in Cardiff I think that answers that.

Dickson is clear first choice.  He is being brought back on slowly to make sure his fitness and health is good.  The difference when he came on is stunning.  Now all we need is for Hartley to get back and I am sure we can give Sarries or Quins a run for their money.

Nerves have just about settled now, must admit I was thinking the worst until North scored. I too thought Doyle did well considering. Thought Tigers were pretty cynical throughout and were lucky not to see at least 3 more yellows. Not sure why, pressure of the occasion and crowd maybe?

For Saints thought Wood, Lawes & Heywood in the forwards were excellent, even at the end they were constantly offering themselves to keep the attack going. Saying that Salvi was immense for Tigers and even though on the loosing side probably my MoM, one of the best openside performances I've seen for a while.

I wish BT would stop specifically selecting former players to commentate on their old club's matches, it too often produces bias. Fine for them to offer their insight from the less dominating pundit role for that match, but Kay or Healey shouldn't be in the box for Tigers games, nor Dallaglio or Dawson for Wasps, or Dawson for Saints.

niwatts wrote:I wish BT would stop specifically selecting former players to commentate on their old club's matches, it too often produces bias.  Fine for them to offer their insight from the less dominating pundit role for that match, but Kay or Healey shouldn't be in the box for Tigers games, nor Dallaglio or Dawson for Wasps, or Dawson for Saints.

That would leave them a little short on commentary team, perhaps get Sarah up there.

Dallaglio Dawson - Wasps
Healey and Kay - Tigers
Bayfield and Dawson - Saints

formerly known as Sam wrote:Clark really is scum. Double knee to a prone player. I hope it's a big ban and he is never again talked about as an England international.

You wouldn't happen to be sam16111986 from the Leicester offy forum would you?

Sam,
When did that happen?  I don't remember seeing it.  I would want to go back and look.  I was watching with a few Leicester supporters (I let them in my house because they brought beer) and no one mentioned anything.  

To go on a short tangent, Leicester supporters do need to bring beer to gain admittance to my house which they generally do.  Except for one bloke who only needs to bring his girlfriend (he doesn't need to stay).  We are a friendly bunch and caring is SHARING...........

doctor_grey wrote:Sam,
When did that happen?  I don't remember seeing it.  I would want to go back and look.  I was watching with a few Leicester supporters (I let them in my house because they brought beer) and no one mentioned anything.  

To go on a short tangent, Leicester supporters do need to bring beer to gain admittance to my house which they generally do.  Except for one bloke who only needs to bring his girlfriend (he doesn't need to stay).  We are a friendly bunch and caring is SHARING...........

what else would be shared though? you need to watch out for those things!

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

niwatts wrote:I wish BT would stop specifically selecting former players to commentate on their old club's matches, it too often produces bias.  Fine for them to offer their insight from the less dominating pundit role for that match, but Kay or Healey shouldn't be in the box for Tigers games, nor Dallaglio or Dawson for Wasps, or Dawson for Saints.

That would leave them a little short on commentary team, perhaps get Sarah up there.

Dallaglio Dawson  - Wasps
Healey and Kay - Tigers
Bayfield and Dawson - Saints

They usually have one of Dallaglio, Dawson, Kay or Healey partnered with one of their 'professional' commentators, Mullins, Gillingham or Eykyn, and in some matches an additional ex-player with occasional insights and analysis.  The most obvious and natural old club bias could very easily be reduced by simply having Dallaglio/Dawson as the ex-player co-commentator for Tigers matches, Healey/Kay for Wasps and Healey/Kay/Dallaglio for Saints.  Instead BT purposely choose the ex-players to commentate for their old clubs.

niwatts wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

niwatts wrote:I wish BT would stop specifically selecting former players to commentate on their old club's matches, it too often produces bias.  Fine for them to offer their insight from the less dominating pundit role for that match, but Kay or Healey shouldn't be in the box for Tigers games, nor Dallaglio or Dawson for Wasps, or Dawson for Saints.

That would leave them a little short on commentary team, perhaps get Sarah up there.

Dallaglio Dawson  - Wasps
Healey and Kay - Tigers
Bayfield and Dawson - Saints

They usually have one of Dallaglio, Dawson, Kay or Healey partnered with one of their 'professional' commentators, Mullins, Gillingham or Eykyn, and in some matches an additional ex-player with occasional insights and analysis.  The most obvious and natural old club bias could very easily be reduced by simply having Dallaglio/Dawson as the ex-player co-commentator for Tigers matches, Healey/Kay for Wasps and Healey/Kay/Dallaglio for Saints.  Instead BT purposely choose the ex-players to commentate for their old clubs.

I'm really not seeing this supposed "bias". They both were calling for Goneva to be yellow carded, Healey was also calling for Bowden to be carded. I just dont get what your getting at.

Ashton was criticized for shouting to put off Nick Evans as he ran up to take a kick. I don't like that behaviour but it seems odd journos went as far as to get a comment on the matter from the two coaches without also asking about Danny Care. Care called for a pass from Vunipola, as if he was a team mate, and got it. Barnes told him to cut it out. Both are acts of gamesmanship,and we could do without them.

I don't mind bias coming through in a broadcast. For instance I like watching the Super 15 (Super Rugby, whatever) broadcasts and all the commentatiors are biased, especially when one of their teams are playing a team from one of the other countries. To me, it's OK if we know where it comes from. Almost adds to things, at least for me.

I like having Bayfield as an ex-Saints because he his bigger than the rest of them. Only problem is he DOES try to be fair.................

The only bias I've seen is LD for Wasps. Dawson just talks Poopie and it's difficult to figure what he's saying at all, never mind if it's biased. Never noticed it for Kay, Healey or Bayfield (other than the Leicester v Australia game that was on ESPN).