Bruno! World champ under Stewart???

This past week has been a bit of a Bruno fest for me. Been watching his early mid 80's to 90's fights against the SA ex champ he destroyed in 1 round, Bugnar, Witherspoon, Ribalta etc.

Just thinking how alike Bruno and Wlad are stylewise.

Both bulky on top but not much footwork. Both blessed with ram rod jabs ( but I think Bruno's was better) and both tend to like a good grab.

Lets take the Bruno coming off the Witherspoon defeat and put him in the charge of Manny Stewart.

Does Manny pull off the same job he did on Wlad?

For me Bruno had everything needed for a heavy except a world class trainer. I don't think Bruno would have fought the way he did against Tyson had he been with Stewart. Different fight for me.

Who's Manny Stewart?

I do think Bruno would have improved as Steward would have had him sparring better men than he eventually fought.

In this era, he may well have reigned longer than he eventually did (as it's appalling) but it would have been difficult to dominate the 90's in the way Wlad has dominated this current lot (aside from Vitali).

hazharrison wrote:Who's Manny Stewart?

I do think Bruno would have improved as Steward would have had him sparring better men than he eventually fought.

In this era, he may well have reigned longer than he eventually did (as it's appalling) but it would have been difficult to dominate the 90's in the way Wlad has dominated this current lot (aside from Vitali).

Good point.

The era was nothing special until Tyson came around. Had Bruno learnt how to box and move like any pro against Witherspoon then he would have won that fight as he was leading. As it goes he took some big shots by a poor Terrible Tim.

I think Wlad has pretty decent footwork actually, surprisingly lithe for someone so big.

TopHat24/7 wrote:I think Wlad has pretty decent footwork actually, surprisingly lithe for someone so big.

So why the need for obsessive grabbing?

Bruno lacked any real killer instinct. He wasn't a natural fighter and I'm afraid that his chin was worse than Wlad's. Despite the piddle poor quality of HW he'd have faced, there are any number who would have still landed on his chin and then dear old Frank was generally robbed of his senses and picked off by anyone remotely decent.

The likes of Sanders would still have given Frank problems

Anyway, nice of ONETRUSS to post an "original" article (cough)

DAVE667 wrote:Bruno lacked any real killer instinct. He wasn't a natural fighter and I'm afraid that his chin was worse than Wlad's. Despite the piddle poor quality of HW he'd have faced, there are any number who would have still landed on his chin and then dear old Frank was generally robbed of his senses and picked off by anyone remotely decent.

The likes of Sanders would still have given Frank problems

Anyway, nice of ONETRUSS to post an "original" article (cough)

He dealt with Coetzee and Ribalta in quick fashion.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Bruno lacked any real killer instinct. He wasn't a natural fighter and I'm afraid that his chin was worse than Wlad's. Despite the piddle poor quality of HW he'd have faced, there are any number who would have still landed on his chin and then dear old Frank was generally robbed of his senses and picked off by anyone remotely decent.

The likes of Sanders would still have given Frank problems

Anyway, nice of ONETRUSS to post an "original" article (cough)

He dealt with Coetzee and Ribalta in quick fashion.

If that's the sum total of your argument, can you sign back in under your other alias please?

If Bruno had any killer instinct, after sending Tyson's legs wobbly he'd have had enough about him to land AT LEAST ONE OTHER PUNCH!!!!!

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:I think Wlad has pretty decent footwork actually, surprisingly lithe for someone so big.

So why the need for obsessive grabbing?

Because he's efficient and that's the easiest way to win fights when you know you'll never get pulled up on it. Plus forcing your opponent to hold themselves up against 250lbs is as much if not more energy zapping that simply dancing out of reach and making them follow you, plus Wlad doesn't want people coming on to him as he's not a counter-puncher, ergo better to smother.

Against David Haye though, for example, he repeatedly showed good footwork to get out of range of Haye's bombs.

Not sure Bruno's chin was worse then Wlad either.

It took the kitchen sink for Witherspoon to drop him. Don't think Wlad can take a punch.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:I think Wlad has pretty decent footwork actually, surprisingly lithe for someone so big.

So why the need for obsessive grabbing?

Because he's efficient and that's the easiest way to win fights when you know you'll never get pulled up on it.  Plus forcing your opponent to hold themselves up against 250lbs is as much if not more energy zapping that simply dancing out of reach and making them follow you, plus Wlad doesn't want people coming on to him as he's not a counter-puncher, ergo better to smother.

Against David Haye though, for example, he repeatedly showed good footwork to get out of range of Haye's bombs.

Haye threw bombs??? Missed that part then.

Always easier to box and move then stand in front of you're opponant don't you think.

I think Bruno would be undisputed champ today but Manny couldn't change him..

He was what he was....More than enough now ...not then..

Aliases are a banning offence on here So please report my Onetwo alias to the mods any of the growing number that want me off !!

Super thread Truss...I mean Onetwo.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Not sure Bruno's chin was worse then Wlad either.

It took the kitchen sink for Witherspoon to drop him. Don't think Wlad can take a punch.

Silly boy, once Frank got tagged he was defenceless and it was a volley of unanswered shots that did for him...as per the rest of his losses

Frank wouldn't have bottled Wlad

DAVE667 wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Not sure Bruno's chin was worse then Wlad either.

It took the kitchen sink for Witherspoon to drop him. Don't think Wlad can take a punch.

Silly boy, once Frank got tagged he was defenceless and it was a volley of unanswered shots that did for him...as per the rest of his losses

Yeah but he was getting tagged way before the final round DAVE and still stood up to his shots. Wlad would not have gone as far as Bruno in that fight.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Frank wouldn't have bottled Wlad

Probably not but there's every chances he gets tagged and stopped

If you traded Bruno and Klitschko places I think they would end up trading similar records. I dont know if Bruno would have the same length of career as Klitschko but with Steward training him and the competition Klitschko has had I think he would be well able to put together a lengthy enough reign, if not as long as Klitschkos. Mentally Bruno has his problems and I dont think he has Klitschkos focus to go on for ever against the duds.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:I think Wlad has pretty decent footwork actually, surprisingly lithe for someone so big.

So why the need for obsessive grabbing?

Because he's efficient and that's the easiest way to win fights when you know you'll never get pulled up on it.  Plus forcing your opponent to hold themselves up against 250lbs is as much if not more energy zapping that simply dancing out of reach and making them follow you, plus Wlad doesn't want people coming on to him as he's not a counter-puncher, ergo better to smother.

Against David Haye though, for example, he repeatedly showed good footwork to get out of range of Haye's bombs.

Haye threw bombs??? Missed that part then.

Always easier to box and move then stand in front of you're opponant don't you think.

1. I said threw, didn't say anything about landing.

2. When you're 250lb, taller than all your opponents pretty much and know you're never penalised, it's better to conserve your energy whilst sapping there's by smothering/leaning.

Bruno beat the huge lumbering Eklund..

Maybe that points to a tough fight for Wlad..

Could be another Corrie

DAVE667 wrote:Bruno lacked any real killer instinct. He wasn't a natural fighter and I'm afraid that his chin was worse than Wlad's. Despite the piddle poor quality of HW he'd have faced, there are any number who would have still landed on his chin and then dear old Frank was generally robbed of his senses and picked off by anyone remotely decent.

The likes of Sanders would still have given Frank problems

Anyway, nice of ONETRUSS to post an "original" article (cough)

38 kayos in 40 wins and he didn't have a killer instinct............

Anyway have a good Easter fellas...........In cold damp England !!  

TRUSS where you going????????

Check your diary.....

"Dress Down Day" at the Oyster?

Yeah, Bruno's killer instinct showed through when he fought the boxer formally known as Joe Bugner didn't it?

Few more cautious fighters than Bruno who knew full well his chin was always going to let him down if he wasn't careful.

Was going to say his chin was his Achilles Heel but decided against it...oh wait.......

Lets be honest when Bruno stepped up to fight true world class opposition he failed to knock any of them out or beat them, Bonecrusher Smith,Witherspoon,Tyson,Lewis.
Won the title against a troubled fighter in McCall who was going through a lot of emotional turmoil.
Lucky champion for me Bruno, but don't begrudge him it.

He's on the Darren Barker level of World Champion.

As impressive as Broner at WW. That kind of thing.

Nico the gman wrote:Lets be honest when Bruno stepped up to fight true world class opposition he failed to knock any of them out or beat them, Bonecrusher Smith,Witherspoon,Tyson,Lewis.
Won the title against a troubled fighter in McCall who was going through a lot of emotional turmoil.
Lucky champion for me Bruno, but don't begrudge him it.

Well, as I remember ,Bruno was winning the fights against Bonecrusher,Witherspoon and Lewis quite convincingly until he got tagged in the latter stages? Hence the premise that Manny would have improved him, if we look at Wlad's reinvention, is a very sound one indeed.
I don't think he was a grabber at all.In his McCall and Tyson (rematch) fights, he added this technique but rather late in his career ,because he said he was too proud to hold on when injured.He did stand around like a polar bear waiting at a bus stop once tagged.Whether this made any difference in the Tyson result however....!

He wasn't winning the Lewis fight -- it was fairly even. Lewis was dreadful that night.

Well in fairness, there had only been six completed rounds in the Lewis fight. General consensus is that Bruno was either 4-2 up in rounds, or it was dead even. A one-round swing when you've only completed six takes on a bit more significance. I thought he deserved to be ahead, personally, but even if you had it three rounds apiece I think Bruno won his rounds more convincingly than Lewis had won his. I still had him a smidge ahead of Witherspoon when he got stopped, too. Despite Frank being categorised as one of the poorest Heavyweight champs, the only guy he fought who he really couldn't hang with at all was Tyson.

On that basis I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Bruno could have had a better career than he managed if he'd had someone like Steward working his corner, but I don't think Bruno had Wladimir's natural coordination and athleticism to protect that chin for prolonged periods the way Wlad does. To be honest, given that he was around in a pretty decent Heavyweight era, Bruno got maximum mileage out of the gifts and ability he had and I think it'd be hard for a coach even as qualified as Steward to have done too much more with him.

He hung quite well with Tyson for a round Chris. Apart from all the hitting and holding it was a cracking round too!

Always thought frank was a robotic fighter with decent fundamentals with the exception of the 'naturals'... The things that can't be taught - natural fluidity, balance and coordination, and lack of a fighter's instincts. Manny might well have improved him, but I do think frank did (what he could be taught) fairly well anyway. Wlad is a better athlete in my view.

Always that feeling with frank that he was over muscled and was always going to be vulnerable when fatigue kicked in in the hater rounds.

One of the reasons why many are keen to see what his maxi-me, Joshua looks like in the later rounds. To be fair Joshua looks a more natural fighter than frank, just shares the physique.

We may have seen a slight improvement under Manny, but natural ability is something you've either got or you haven't and Frank was as stiff as a board.

A lot was made about Bruno's power, but as I said when he stepped up to genuine world class he never looked like knocking any of them out.Shook Tyson momentarily but that was about it.

Agree about Bruno's power. If the opponent was slow enough then Bruno could do some damage, but if the fighter had a bit of speed about them, then Bruno's power didn't seem to matter much. He just didn't seem to have the snap that was needed to land that surprise punch against a world class fighter.

There's no doubting Brunos power, he could hurt anybody if he landed on them but when you step up a level or two it becomes a lot hard to land in the first place.

Don't think it would have worked just on the basis Bruno was always desperate to impress.

Think Manny would have been able to make him a better fighter but don't think Frank would have been prepared to fight cautiously enough to make the most of it.