Toulon v Leinster - HC QF

First topic message reminder :

The winners of the last 3 HC's face off on Sunday in the QF on French soil.

Toulon have a few injuries but have squad jammed with internationals so they won't be weakened much.

Just off the back of a cracking win over Toulouse where little Freddie ran the show scoring a try, 2 conversions and 6 penalties to bag a handsome 27 points.

Leinster's win over Munster was, a more sedate affair, scoring only 1 try, and resting their top carrying threat Cian Healy.

Leinster haven't exactly been firing on all cylinders lately (despite winning their last 10 games in a row) but the Northampton game this year will give them the confidence that they can pull out a result.

Should be a cracker.

15: Rob Kearney
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Dave Kearney
10: Jimmy Gopperth
9: Eoin Reddan
1: Cian Healy
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Devin Toner
5: Mike McCarthy
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN
REPLACEMENTS:
16: Sean Cronin
17: Jack McGrath
18: Martin Moore
19: Leo Cullen
20: Jordi Murphy
21: Isaac Boss
22: Ian Madigan
23: Zane Kirchner

1/ Chiocci
2/ Burden
3/ Hayman
4/ Rossouw
5/ Suta
6/ J. Smith
7/ Fernandez Lobbe
8/ S. Armitage
9/ Tillous-Borde
10/ Wilkinson (.cap)
11/ D. Smith
12/ Giteau
13/ Bastareaud  
14/ Mitchell
15/ D. Armitage

The substitutes:
16/ Orioli
17/ Menini
18/ Castrogiovanni
19/ Mikautadze
20/ Bruni
21/ Michalak
22/ Mermoz
23/ Habana

Frustrating game. Toulon deserved the victory. Leinster didn't play near their potential. Jennings is starting to show his age, MOC went with experience and guile but Jordi might have been a better shout.

Scrum was relatively solid. Lineout was a mess. Kick chase didn't put them under pressure. Gopperth looked like a guy who hadn't played in a couple of weeks. Kicks were giving the Toulon back 3 too much time to have a look around and assess options. Felt we only starting playing once the game was already lost.

That said we stayed in the game quite well for the first half and we had a good 10 minutes towards the end.

Not sure MOC puts confidence in these players, has a strategy for the game, and also not sure if he made changes are the right time.

Also, handling, which should be a given for Leinster was so sloppy it was terrible. And how many times did Reddan have scrappy ball and loosely flop the ball back the field making it a worse and worse situation. Gopperth was also guilty of it. The kid McGrath would have played better at scrum half.

BlueMuff wrote:

Mickado wrote:Just not good enough. Well done Toulon but I hope Munster tear you to shreds in the semi and go on to win the thing.

The difference could be the fact that its in Marseilles with I reckon anuthing up to 15,000 Munster fans. We went to Clermont last year with no confidence, a poor scrum and a poor line out and no back play apart from side to side and drove them close. This year is a different storey.

Leinster have won 4 European cups in 5 years a feet that may never be achieved again. It was always going to be tough this year without Sexton, Neweca and SOB. Take them 3 players out of anything and you will be weakened. The positives for Leinster is that the academy is  producing quality players to replace these.

Muh, the post mortems will be many and detailed but I'm not quite ready for them just yet. We also need to consider that we have to replace BOD, Cullen and think about a proper succession plan at 9.

Ye'll pack the place out, it's next to impossible to beat the likes of Clermont or Toulon at home, but get them to move out of their comfort zone and it's doable.

Leinster were quite poor IMO. Worrying amount of mistakes, knock ons etc. Fairly un Leinster like. Worst Heino performance in a while.

I would have brought Madigan on a lot earlier. That said Im actually more disapointed Ulster didnt get through. They deserved it more than Leinster and were absolutely robbed IMO. Shame, really thought it was their year and still feel they are a better side than Sarries.

I can see Toulon doing it again.

Toulon were unplayable at times. I thought at 6 all Leinster would up the tempo in the second half Toulon just continued where they left off. Based on the Leinster/Munster game from the week previously Munster played completely differently to the Aviva game while Leinster didnt seem to have anything different to offer.

Scrumpy wrote:I can see Toulon doing it again.

Hopefully not. Clermont or Munster for me.

Arise Sir Wilko.

Nothing coming out about McFadden forced from the field even though a portion of his leg was ripped open by a stamp.
Strange nothing coming out about BOD being gouged!?! Was it by his own man? Thought he was the only blue jersey in that breakdown though.

ME-109 wrote:Toulon were unplayable at times. I thought at 6 all Leinster would up the tempo in the second half Toulon just continued where they left off. Based on the Leinster/Munster game from the week previously Munster played completely differently to the Aviva game while Leinster didnt seem to have anything different to offer.

Yeah I thought Leinster's tactics were good. They were turning Toulon around and trying to capitalise on their errors - the problem was they kept coughing up possession and getting turned over themselves and although some of their defence was excellent at times they just couldn't deal with the firepower Toulon had.

Jennings, D'arcy and Drico were left looking old and fragile in defence - D'arce in particular had a nightmare... the difference in pace and power between the sides was scary at times.

There were a lot of positives though and Leinster definitely had periods were things were swinging their way. They are just lacking a bit of cutting edge compared to a couple of seasons ago.

Another point is that this competition is nigh on impossible to win on the road.

As with Ulster last season losing that home tie against Saints was a real killer blow to Leinster's title aspirations.

I think its important not read to much into this defeat as it would likely have been a very different game at the Aviva.

Well at least they won the six nations, not Leinster but the players you mentioned (bar Jenno) Rodders so not too bad a year. I expect Leinster will look to defend their Rabo crown now. An Ulster Leinster final would be sweet.

GunsGerms wrote:Well at least they won the six nations, not Leinster but the players you mentioned (bar Jenno) Rodders so not too bad a year. I expect Leinster will look to defend their Rabo crown now. An Ulster Leinster final would be sweet.

Well the star players in the 6ns were (in no particular order)...

POC, Best, Trimble, Murray, POM, Sexton, BOD....the supporting cast did ok...were missing them yesterday though.

rodders wrote:Another point is that this competition is nigh on impossible to win on the road.

As with Ulster last season losing that home tie against Saints was a real killer blow to Leinster's title aspirations.

I think its important not read to much into this defeat as it would likely have been a very different game at the Aviva.  

I dont know. It might have been closer in the Aviva but I think that the result might have been the same based on the game yesterday, hard to tell though. Well we have to do the impossible (and it will probably be nigh impossible) and win away against Toulon...

I don't think this has been a bad weekend Guns - off the back of the 6N win I thought the provinces all performed at least as well as could be expected given their individual circumstances.

A 6N win, 3 HEC quarter finalists, 1 at least SF probably 3 provinces in the Rabo play offs. This is still a vintage year for Irish rugby no matter what happens from here in.

It's all about the RWC anyways .....   

ME-109 wrote: Well we have to do the impossible (and it will probably be nigh impossible) and win away against Toulon...

To the brave and faithful nothing is impossible

Well George Hook has written us off completely and said we were the weakest Irish team...so we should win easily.   

ME-109 wrote:Well George Hook has written us off completely and said we were the weakest Irish team...so we should win easily.   

Hookie is on the windup I bet he's got 20 euro on you really.

If Leinster could take out their scrum, so can you. You have a better lineout and more pace in the backs to take Toulon on rather than defend against them a la Leinster.

Crucially 2 points give you a better shot than Leinster this year - you are hungrier and fresher than they are and secondly Paul O'Connell - the guy is a colossus and in the form off his life without many people noticing.....

When I saw the way Munster breezed that group, added with the SF last year I had a feeling you were dark horses - after the trouncing of Toulouse that cat is out of the bag.......

The one thing that was surprising yesterday was how ordinary Leinster looked which is the first time in a big game for a long time. Without Sexton and SOB it was always going to be hard but the collective didnt seem to fire at all. Healy was the most effective again and was the best Leinster player on the pitch but without SOB there were no other threats. Kirchner brought something when he got the opportunity as well Leinster just did not carry any threat. The stats for Darcy and BOD in terms of missed tackles is frighteningly bad...

ME-109 wrote:Well George Hook has written us off completely and said we were the weakest Irish team...so we should win easily.   

Are you going to pack some ham sandwiches and tayho and head over for the game?

Munster probably still are the weakest of Leinster and Ulster but the deserved their win and Leinster were crap so good luck. A Munster win would be a good end to the season.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Well George Hook has written us off completely and said we were the weakest Irish team...so we should win easily.   

Are you going to pack some ham sandwiches and tayho and head over for the game?

None of that bogger stuff you are used to Guns...no doubt I will be going over with a bunch of alickadoos from Cork Constitution and the like. Some of them even take their Yachts over from the RCYC over to Nice to enjoy the summer. No..it will be Bollinger and hors d'oeuvres by the seafront. Might visit the old villa in Provence and make a week of it just to check that the staff are not at the vintage wine in the cellar...   

ME-109 wrote:The one thing that was surprising yesterday was how ordinary Leinster looked which is the first time in a big game for a long time. Without Sexton and SOB it was always going to be hard but the collective didnt seem to fire at all. Healy was the most effective again and was the best Leinster player on the pitch but without SOB there were no other threats. Kirchner brought something when he got the opportunity as well Leinster just did not carry any threat. The stats for Darcy and BOD in terms of missed tackles is frighteningly bad...

Sexton and O'Brien are huge losses - as is Nacewa. BOD and D'arcy aren't what they were that's just a reality.

Kearney I thought played very well though and is back close to his best and Reddan is in the form of his life but bar Healy and Cronin there isn't a lot of power going forward.

I think Leinster are in a similar boat to Ulster in that they are one or two players short of the top teams this year. Munster have a bit more youth and energy I think. Not having too many in the Ireland side gives them an edge in the end of season run in too.

Bod and Darce have a bad game and they are back to being rubbish. How fickle fans are.

GunsGerms wrote:Bod and Darce have a bad game and they are back to being rubbish. How fickle fans are.

No one said they were rubbish stop being a drama queen. It was worrying that they missed so many tackles. They are not rubbish.

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Bod and Darce have a bad game and they are back to being rubbish. How fickle fans are.

No one said they were rubbish stop being a drama queen. It was worrying that they missed so many tackles. They are not rubbish.

Stop being a diva again Dod, I was talking about Rodders.

"BOD and D'arcy aren't what they were that's just a reality"

GunsGerms wrote:Bod and Darce have a bad game and they are back to being rubbish. How fickle fans are.

Definitely not rubbish but they struggled big time yesterday, especially D'arcy.

D'arcy has had a good season so can't be written off after one game but we know its pretty much the end of the road for drico bar the Rabo run in.

It's not being derogatory to acknowledge the fact they are past their primes.

Well they played very well in the six nations and the heineken cup so after one bad game they dont deserve to be written off IMO.

GunsGerms wrote:Well they played very well in the six nations and the heineken cup so after one bad game they dont deserve to be written off IMO.

Is that any different to what I said?

But the reality is even on a bad day D'arcy and Drico wouldn't have been left chasing shadows like that a few years ago. It happened because they couldn't live with the pace and power Toulon had in attack. Don't forget both struggled against France too in defence.

Both had big 6N but there is the possibility that they have very little left in the tank now ... conversely they could bounce back in a few weeks but I think if they had any big performances left in them yesterday was the day to show it.

Leinster were pretty poor right across the park, lots of mistakes. I dont think we lost because Darce and Bod are old and past it. The preformance was very flat accross the board. I would have started Madigan or at least brought him on earlier. Leinster, sadly arent as well drilled under MOC. They didnt really look like scoring very often and seemed to conspire to find a way to butcher it when they did have chances. That for me indicated they were a little devoid of ideas perhaps?

Don't think anyone is saying its their fault. What you said is about right. But it was up the middle that Toulon made most damage which is shown in the stats...just a concern that is all.

Yes tackling was very poor.

GunsGerms wrote:That for me indicated they were a little devoid of ideas perhaps?

Possible...the Leicester way hasn't changed much since I have started looking at them and their game plan on Sat was the same as 10 years ago. But they don't have the personnel to do it these days in Europe. Might be the same with Leinster in terms of what MOC brings...it might not work very well.

They have been poor all season really. Couple of flattering wins early on aside.

Overall they haven't played anything near the level schmidt brought. The 1 set play they actually pulled off during the game was embarrassingly slow and obvious. What makes it worse it that we rely on those to come off - given the size of our team we can't make any ground after 3 or 4 phases. We either need a great tactician as a coach, we have some smart players after all- or we need some bigger players if we want to keep playing in the same way under MOC

GunsGerms wrote:Leinster were pretty poor right across the park, lots of mistakes. I dont think we lost because Darce and Bod are old and past it.

I didn't say that but quite a few of the yardage and line breaks that led to Toulon's scores came from bad missed tackles with obvious ones by Drico, D'arcy and Jennings which is uncharacteristic.

I don't think Leinster were bad at al l- they just lacked firepower to come back when Toulon built up the lead and their inability to retain the ball put them under pressure - but part of that was down to Toulon's power at the breakdown.

However you have to draw parallels with the win against Clermont a few years ago and say that this team didn't have the same ability to hold out in defence over 80 min and score crucial points in the same fashion.

Im not particularly worried about the players Leinster have more so that the direction we are going tactically. The game plan is regressing and possibly the organisation right throughout the team. Shame Schmidt couldnt coach both Leinster and Ireland but that would be silly of course.

Didn't think BOD had a bad game to be honest. Tackled well, had some decent runs. Think he rushed up once too early which gave Basteraud space but can't remember any other clear errors.

How some thought the toulon forward pack would roll over is beyond me though (as in newspaper pundits etc). Danie Russouw is a sublime player and I thought when JW went off Toulon actually improved with Giteau running the show. Scrum sure they had the upper hand but everywhere else Toulon gave as good as they got upfront.

Dont recall anyone saying the Toulon pack would roll over?

GunsGerms wrote:Dont recall anyone saying the Toulon pack would roll over?

No but you did say that Munster would not beat Toulouse   

BlueMuff wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Dont recall anyone saying the Toulon pack would roll over?

No but you did say that Munster would not beat Toulouse   

I also said after the 6N I hoped they (Munster) would win the heineken cup this year.

No one believes you Guns...   

ME-109 wrote:No one believes you Guns...   

I have never really cared what the ham sandwich/tayho brigade thinks. Most Leinster fans don't either. Despite the fans I support the Munster team because they are Irish and part of Irish rugby.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:No one believes you Guns...   

I have never really cared what the ham sandwich/tayho brigade thinks. Most Leinster fans don't either. Despite the fans I support the Munster team because they are Irish and part of Irish rugby.

You don't care what you think yourself? Post a picture of yourself on your Massy Ferguson on de farm in weshtmeath with your Munster Jersey on and I'll believe you. Your neighbours could probably loan you a jersey.

Dod you really are coming across a little wierd/seperated from reality these days. Everything alright?

What did you think of John Joe getting battered in Mullingar over the weekend? Really shocking story.

Don't understand Guns?? Your a bogger from Weshtmeath just making sure you don't forget   

ME-109 wrote:Don't understand Guns?? Your a bogger from Weshtmeath just making sure you don't forget   

I havent forgotten. Im proud of it. You are a pikey yourself but seem to have forgotten. What do you think of the John Joe incident?

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Don't understand Guns?? Your a bogger from Weshtmeath just making sure you don't forget   

I havent forgotten. Im proud of it. You are a pikey yourself but seem to have forgotten. What do you think of the John Joe incident?

Havent a clue what that is....wouldn't know what to think of the incident we don't have that sort down here... 

I am sure you would be better informed in this respect.

Its the same as a redneck. Mullingar has a fairly big traveller community. Sad really as John Joe had a really bright future.

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Don't understand Guns?? Your a bogger from Weshtmeath just making sure you don't forget   

I havent forgotten. Im proud of it. You are a pikey yourself but seem to have forgotten. What do you think of the John Joe incident?

Havent a clue what that is....wouldn't know what to think of the incident we don't have that sort down here... 

I am sure you would be better informed in this respect.

Two imbecile rednecks, fighting over a lost cause.

Horny to read mind. XX.

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:No one believes you Guns...   

I have never really cared what the HANG sandwich/taaaythoooo brigade thinks. Most Leinster fans don't either. Despite the fans I support the Munster team because they are Irish and part of Irish rugby.

You don't care what you think yourself? Post a picture of yourself on your Massy Ferguson on de farm in weshtmeath with your Munster Jersey on and I'll believe you. Your neighbours could probably loan you a jersey.

Correction. I lived in Limerick. 

Best time of my life actually. It had access to Clare and Cork. Heaven. Just dont tell de boggers.

So many culchies. So little time.

Need a Toulon v Clermont rematch in Kaardip.

But this time.. rugby wins. ASM to take it home. 

Best club and fans in Yurop. 

Believe.

Always think of this for you Gibson
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R0MVaCOIfQI