Potential Irish centres

First topic message reminder :

JARED PAYNE (Ulster)
The 28-year-old former New Zealand Under-21 player was earmarked as a successor to O’Driscoll when Ulster signed him in 2011, and he becomes Irish-qualified under the three-year residency rule next season.
An ex-Crusaders and a stand-out player with the Blues in 2011 mostly as an outside centre, his first season with Ulster was ruined by a ruptured Achilles tendon but with his sumptuous timing he’s oozed class when gliding into the line from ‘15’ in the last two seasons and when afforded occasional outings at his favoured ‘13’.
Looks the part. KEITH EARLS (Munster)
Devastatingly quick, with good footwork, of the candidates the 26-year-old Earls is possibly only rivalled by Fitzgerald for his ability to beat a man and has the best strike rate (26 tries in 91 games for Munster, 12 in 39 for Ireland).
Yet likewise has suffered with injuries and for his versatility, and laterally has been more of a wing.
Still, Earls deputised impressively for O’Driscoll in the 2012 Six Nations and in the autumn of that year.
DARREN CAVE (Ulster)
The hard running, strong tackling 26-year-old has actually the biggest body of work at outside centre over the last six seasons, having played 129 games for Ulster (scoring 30 tries) in that time.
He has also won five caps, albeit all of them away on summer tours, of which two apiece have been against the USA and Canada.
For all the previous doubts about his passing skills, he has upped his try assists this season and is likely to be taken on summer tour.
ROBBIE HENSHAW (Connacht)
Henshaw blossomed in his latter years with Marist College in Ahtlone, playing for the Irish schools, under-18 and under-19 teams.
Has already accumulated 38 games in two seasons for Connacht, mostly at full-back, where he also made his debut for Ireland against the USA, adding two more caps off the bench.
Clearly identified by Joe Schmidt as a potential 13, it is hard to credit he’s still only 20, and will have the size, power and speed to compete in the modern-day midfield war zone.
FERGUS McFADDEN (Leinster)
The 26-year-old has 103 games for Leinster and 26 for Ireland, and not alone began life as a centre but used to regard ‘13’ as his best and most effective position.
Brave, physical and quick, although he still sporadically plays at ‘13’, has mostly played on the wing.
Of his 13 Test starts, two were at outside centre in the World Cup warm-up defeat to Scotland and the home Six Nations defeat to Wales last season; the rest were on the wing.
LUKE FITZGERALD (Leinster)
Like his kindred spirit Earls, the gifted Fitzgerald has been a victim of injuries and versatility.
Hence, although he has played 122 games for Leinster and 27 for Ireland over eight seasons, he could have achieved more.
Of his 19 starts – the last was the World Cup warm-up match in Bordeaux in August 2011 – three have been at ‘12’, five at full-back and the rest on the wing. When fit and confident, has wondrous footwork, real gas and is a finisher.

In my opinion, Fitzgerald out of all the candidates, has the potential to be the greatest.
He has illustrious acceleration, great strength, and rarely misses tackles.He has experience at the highlest level(started for the lions), and is still only 26!(2 years younger than Mr.Payne).

majesticimperialman wrote:The one person i would like too see more often in an Ireland shirt is  Ian Madigan.

From what i have seen he will be a great replacement for Sexton. In case he gets injured or is out of form.

Why would we pick Leinster second choice 10 for Ireland?

As soon as Munster pick JJ regularly at 10 Madigan will be 4th choice 10 for Ireland
He is already a country mile behind Jackson and once JJ gets more experience he will be well behind him too

Payne will take the 13 slot.

I watched him play almost a full season there in Super rugby and he was superb. He's just such a classy player, he'll be fantastic for Ireland.

Think Payne might be one of those players that isn't up to the pace of international level but looks a great club player(Shane Jennings).

How do Leinster fans feel about their young options in the Irish back-line? To be honest I can't think of too many great options.. there is Sexton, Madigan, the Kearney brothers, McFadden and Fitzgerald right now, but are there any other young prospects to challenge the young players at Munster/Connacht/Ulster?

In my mind Fitz is too injury prone and there are better options. Kearney will be pushed very hard at 15, and Kearney Jr/McFadden again just aren't quite as good as some of the other options. After Sexton, Madigan will also have huge competition for the 10 shirt.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Sin é wrote:If that is the case, can you explain to me why Munster are not keeping Casey Laulala and they brought in Gerhardt van den Heever whose 5 starts for Munster have been wearing the No. 14 jersey.

Laulala hasn't been that good?
More money elsewhere?

No, he hasn't been that great (not even related to Rua Tipoki when it comes to performance). No versatility either. He did play well at the end of the season last year in the Heineken Cup (his two best games were Quins & Clermont). Other than that he has been average and he really didn't strike up much of a partnership with Downey.

Munster announced at the end of December that he was going to France because Munster couldn't compete with what he was being offered. Since then Racing (reunite him with Roberts) or Grenoble seem to be his options. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Racing as he knows Roberts and they did play well together and he is fairly pally with ROG.

PredictorofTeams wrote:Think Payne might be one of those players that isn't up to the pace of international level but looks a great club player(Shane Jennings).

He was fine in Super 15 which is faster than NH International rugby

Invalid point Geoff99ice-cream,
Go home, your drunk...

Oh please we are having a fine debate here the last thing we need is a gormless idiot just out nappies posting insults - go home to your mammy !!!

I started this debate

I reckon Noel Reid will take the Leinster 13 position sooner than Luke Fitz even though he is an inside centre.

 

You have to say Geoff...that's the answer of all answers.  And probably the put-down of all put-downs too.

If he had done it to me, I'd have had to bow lowly before him.  

The moral might be "Always check who created the Thread"

 

PredictorofTeams wrote:I started this debate

So what

You started it and you dragged it into the gutter by posting garbage
Congratulations a full house
Your mum would be proud   

Haha good man Goeeoeeff, you sure handed me my commufins!

Ian Whitten had a cracking game at 13 for Exeter at the weekend and by the sounds of it is having a decent season. Probably not a front runner but he's a big powerful guy with decent pace and skills and those attributes are a rare enough commodity in Irish 3/4s

Doing very well but would have to come back home to stake a claim.

You need to be over and above to play for Ireland if playing outside Ireland - thats a good thing.
He would actually suit Munster and maybe even Leinster very well.

Think he is happy at Exeter though

I agree Geoff just mentioning him because he's a bit of a forgotten man - initially I wouldn't be looking far beyond Cave, Payne, Marshall, Henshaw and the guys at the provinces but if he keeps playing well for Exeter then there a worse options than Whitten for sure. A fine player and still fairly young.

He is a bit slow no?

GunsGerms wrote:He is a bit slow no?

Nope. Fast enough to play on the wing (or the centres)

I would not say so for a 13.
Quick enough to play on the wing.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:He is a bit slow no?

Nope.  Fast enough to play on the wing (or the centres)

ASBO what's your thoughts on Whitten this season? That was a decent outside break at the weekend for a guy with no pace!

File Ian Whitten under Tommy Seymour and Willie Faloon- players I now bitterly regret losing due to the depth they would have added to Ulsters squad.

rodders wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:He is a bit slow no?

Nope.  Fast enough to play on the wing (or the centres)

ASBO what's your thoughts on Whitten this season? That was a decent outside break at the weekend for a guy with no pace!

He's done well, rodders, without getting a massive run in any one position - we've had plenty of injuries in the backline, and due to his versatility, Whitts tends to slot into the gaps rather than holding down one position - but he played really well against Bath at 13 in the LV= semi-final, then missed the final due to injury. Delighted he's at Sandy Park

Notch wrote:File Ian Whitten under Tommy Seymour and Willie Faloon- players I now bitterly regret losing due to the depth they would have added to Ulsters squad.

What about Adam Darcy?

I have highish hopes for Peter Nelson, we'll probably need another fullback more if Payne is involved in lots of Ireland squads. We've been lucky that the lack of depth behind Payne hasn't been exposed by injury. He plays pretty much every week.

GunsGerms wrote:I reckon Noel Reid will take the Leinster 13 position sooner than Luke Fitz even though he is an inside centre.

Joe Schmidt promised Luke Fitz the No. 13 jersey if he stayed with Leinster and not move to Munster.

and here is the quote:

Luke Fitzgerald wrote:
“There would have been a big opportunity for me in second centre which was another incentive, but ultimately it was Joe that influenced me. The turning point was Joe giving me time and we decided that my future lay here (Leinster) and how he would coach me into that change of position. Joe is a great coach and communicator and has had a big influence on me.”

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I reckon Noel Reid will take the Leinster 13 position sooner than Luke Fitz even though he is an inside centre.

Joe Schmidt promised Luke Fitz the No. 13 jersey if he stayed with Leinster and not move to Munster.

and here is the quote:

Luke Fitzgerald wrote:
“There would have been a big opportunity for me in second centre which was another incentive, but ultimately it was Joe that influenced me. The turning point was Joe giving me time and we decided that my future lay here (Leinster) and how he would coach me into that change of position. Joe is a great coach and communicator and has had a big influence on me.”

So actually Schmidt told him he could help him move to the 13 position as opposed to promising him the 13 jersey?

And how was he going to do that if he didn't give him the opportunity to play at 13?

That doesn't really mean anything. As Leinster coach, Schmidt had less options for replacing BOD than he does as Ireland coach. So his solution will very probably be different.

Notch wrote:That doesn't really mean anything. As Leinster coach, Schmidt had less options for replacing BOD than he does as Ireland coach. So his solution will very probably be different.

But we all know he is a big admirer of Luke. He called out to his house to talk him out of moving to Munster, so it is safe to say he is a fan.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:That doesn't really mean anything. As Leinster coach, Schmidt had less options for replacing BOD than he does as Ireland coach. So his solution will very probably be different.

But we all know he is a big admirer of Luke. He called out to his house to talk him out of moving to Munster, so it is safe to say he is a fan.

Its safe to say he's a big fan of Leo Cullen as well after backing him as Leinster Captain but I haven't seen him leading out Ireland recently   

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:That doesn't really mean anything. As Leinster coach, Schmidt had less options for replacing BOD than he does as Ireland coach. So his solution will very probably be different.

But we all know he is a big admirer of Luke. He called out to his house to talk him out of moving to Munster, so it is safe to say he is a fan.

Its safe to say he's a big fan of Leo Cullen as well after backing him as Leinster Captain but I haven't seen him leading out Ireland recently   

Haha Notch....its ok for Joe to have his favourites and even show a little bias at times (god knows he has), your defence is bordering on the ridiculous

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:That doesn't really mean anything. As Leinster coach, Schmidt had less options for replacing BOD than he does as Ireland coach. So his solution will very probably be different.

But we all know he is a big admirer of Luke. He called out to his house to talk him out of moving to Munster, so it is safe to say he is a fan.

Its safe to say he's a big fan of Leo Cullen as well after backing him as Leinster Captain but I haven't seen him leading out Ireland recently   

Leo was captain before Schmidt came to Leinster and I don't think anyone was trying to take him away from Leinster.

Luke has a mountain to climb regarding Ireland

I reckon that, in Schmidt eyes:
There are, at least, 3 wingers ahead of him - Bowe, Trimble, Earls
There are 3 people he has primarily mentioned for the 13 shirt - Cave, Payne and Henshaw
D'Arcy and Marshall are his 1/2 for the 12 shirt

I have not even mentioned - Olding, Zebo, McFadden, Kearney etc etc
There will be  a slot in the WC squad for a utility back - that is Fitzgeralds best bet - I suspect McFadden is currently in pole position

ME-109 wrote:

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:That doesn't really mean anything. As Leinster coach, Schmidt had less options for replacing BOD than he does as Ireland coach. So his solution will very probably be different.

But we all know he is a big admirer of Luke. He called out to his house to talk him out of moving to Munster, so it is safe to say he is a fan.

Its safe to say he's a big fan of Leo Cullen as well after backing him as Leinster Captain but I haven't seen him leading out Ireland recently   

Haha Notch....its ok for Joe to have his favourites and even show a little bias at times (god knows he has), your defence is bordering on the ridiculous

Bordering on the ridiculous indeed... maybe if Schmidt had Jared Payne at Leinster he'd have taken a different approach re. Fitzgerald and any possible move to 13. Maybe if he had Paul O'Connell, Leo Cullen wouldn't have gotten a game. Saying he was going to do this as Leinster coach so he'll do it as Ireland coach is whats ridiculous   

He's got more players available to him now, more solutions. If you were Leinster coach of course you'd try and stop Luke Fitzgerald from leaving. What does that mean for Ireland now? Square root of eff all. Just that Luke Fitzgerald is highly thought of and may get a chance to play for Ireland again at some stage.

This parallel universe conspiracy theory stuff is a fascinating insight into what the mental gymnastics some Munster fans will perform to avoid facing the fact that we can win silverware at international level without a few of your sacred cows in the team... but it isn't worth much more than that DOD.

If Fitzgerald is fit and shows he's still got it he'll get into the team. He's class.

Yeah and so is Trimble and Bowe and Zebo etc. Being class isn't a guarantee if you're a back three player.

That said, I'd love to see what he can do with a long, injury-fee run.

In my opinion Fitzgerald is the most talented back in Ireland and I really hope he can get the chance to confirm that. Schmidt said recently he expects him to be the Leinster 13 next season but given his injury record it might take some persuading of O'Connor to back him in a pretty critical position.

Schmidt phonecall to O'Connor: "Listen here mate, you're already turning my Leinster into some sort of pale version of Leicester.  Cross me and your boat sinks, you hear.  IRFU love me.  I say you can't hack it and you're on the first cattle boat back to Oz.  So I'll say it slowly this time.  Fitz - is - your - 13"

Notch wrote:This parallel universe conspiracy theory stuff is a fascinating insight into what the mental gymnastics some Munster fans will perform to avoid facing the fact that we can win silverware at international level without a few of your sacred cows in the team... but it isn't worth much more than that DOD.

Mooooo...

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I reckon Noel Reid will take the Leinster 13 position sooner than Luke Fitz even though he is an inside centre.

Joe Schmidt promised Luke Fitz the No. 13 jersey if he stayed with Leinster and not move to Munster.

and here is the quote:

Luke Fitzgerald wrote:
“There would have been a big opportunity for me in second centre which was another incentive, but ultimately it was Joe that influenced me. The turning point was Joe giving me time and we decided that my future lay here (Leinster) and how he would coach me into that change of position. Joe is a great coach and communicator and has had a big influence on me.”

Coaches lie all the time, Schmidt may have some influence with Fitz playing there a few times but O'Connor won't let Joe pick his team for him. He'll get a couple of games and we'll see what happens. None of this matters if Luke can't stay fit, which sadly is a problem for him.

Leinster dont really have anyone else though unless they get someone in. Cant see McFadden been first choice 13

Feckless Rogue wrote:If Fitzgerald is fit and shows he's still got it he'll get into the team. He's class.

Really in what position ???
To play on the wing he needs to outperform 3 of Trimble (as he performed in this 6N), Bowe, Earls, Zebo - which 3 is he ahead of?
To play at 13 he needs to be better than the 3 guys Schmidt has been talking about - Payne, Cave, Henshaw - is he ?

Don't see it myself but as I say could be the utility back instead of McFadden

Robbie Henshaw will be lining out at 13 for Leinster by the preseason friendlies.

Fitzgerald is class but his body isn't up to playing wing let alone outside centre and the medics and coaches know it unfortunately.

I'd say he's some way ahead of Zebo in the Irish pecking order though for the left wing spot.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:If Fitzgerald is fit and shows he's still got it he'll get into the team. He's class.

Really in what position ???
To play on the wing he needs to outperform 3 of Trimble (as he performed in this 6N), Bowe, Earls, Zebo - which 3 is he ahead of?
To play at 13 he needs to be better than the 3 guys Schmidt has been talking about - Payne, Cave, Henshaw - is he ?

Don't see it myself but as I say could be the utility back instead of McFadden

I wouldnt have Fitz anywhere near the squad. He isnt good enough. Fitz is like fools gold. Looks great but consistently flatters to deceive and is very injury prone. I predict his career has levelled out and can only go down. Do I hear London Irish calling????

Thomond wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I reckon Noel Reid will take the Leinster 13 position sooner than Luke Fitz even though he is an inside centre.

Joe Schmidt promised Luke Fitz the No. 13 jersey if he stayed with Leinster and not move to Munster.

and here is the quote:

Luke Fitzgerald wrote:
“There would have been a big opportunity for me in second centre which was another incentive, but ultimately it was Joe that influenced me. The turning point was Joe giving me time and we decided that my future lay here (Leinster) and how he would coach me into that change of position. Joe is a great coach and communicator and has had a big influence on me.”

Coaches lie all  the time, Schmidt may have some influence with Fitz playing there a few times but O'Connor won't let Joe pick his team for him. He'll get a couple of games and we'll see what happens. None of this matters if Luke can't stay fit, which sadly is a problem for him.

You think Schmidt would lie to get him to stay in Leinster? Interesting.

Why would he want Luke to stay with Leinster if he didn't rate him?

Schmidt isnt Leinster coach anymore so whatever he promised him is only valid while he is coach. Id be surprised if fitz isnt a Munster or London irish player within two years.

Whats this Guns...is it because he grew up in Cork and then went to Rock...and speaks Irish....

He is probably the best wing Leinster have and would make a great OC. He is a class player.

Who cares if he speaks Irish Dod you plank, what has that got to do with anything?

Grew up in cork? What was he there for a couple of years or something?

He is useless. You can have him.

GunsGerms wrote:Who cares if he speaks Irish Dod you plank, what has that got to do with anything?

Grew up in cork? What was he there for a couple of years or something?

He is useless. You can have him.

Touchy...spent most of primary school in cork while his Da worked there.

I see now why you dont like him starred in the beating of Clowngowes in the 04 final....thats very parochial of you Guns...