Tim Bradley is an alltime great !!...You agree ??

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:03 am

First topic message reminder :

Six years at the top of the sport......Holmes had seven....

Three fighters he beat went on to win World titles after...........Alexander, Provo and Petersen (Holmes had 4)

Jmm and Manny were both alltime greats............and Manny is still a top p4p fighter......Sure it was contentious but so was Holmes-Witherspoon and that is Holmes best win !!

Three titles ...Two at different weights........

Kendall Holt, Witter and Casamayor are both good wins also....

Does he past the Eusebio Pedroza test..............Sure does for me......

Tim Bradley an all time great for me !!...Take a bow..

by TopHat24/7 Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:40 pm

hazharrison wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Chad Dawson must be an ATG.

3 years not just 'at the top' by Trussy's usual limp definition, but as much if not more claim than Bradley ever has/had to being 'the man' at the weight. Adamek, Johnsonx2, Tarverx2 as good a CV as Tim's, all things considered, especially with one blip aside he also adds a couple of Hoppo wins into the mix.

Yep.

If Pacquiao defeats this ATG then I guess he ranks above Floyd all-time? That'd be four ATGs he'd defeated -- six if you include Mosely and Oscar (who pretty much must be ATGs if Bradley is?).

Yep, got to be, wouldn't be my way of looking at it buts it's the continuance of Truss' logic certainly.

by hazharrison Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:42 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Chad Dawson must be an ATG.

3 years not just 'at the top' by Trussy's usual limp definition, but as much if not more claim than Bradley ever has/had to being 'the man' at the weight. Adamek, Johnsonx2, Tarverx2 as good a CV as Tim's, all things considered, especially with one blip aside he also adds a couple of Hoppo wins into the mix.

Yep.

If Pacquiao defeats this ATG then I guess he ranks above Floyd all-time? That'd be four ATGs he'd defeated -- six if you include Mosely and Oscar (who pretty much must be ATGs if Bradley is?).

Yep, got to be, wouldn't be my way of looking at it buts it's the continuance of Truss' logic certainly.

Glad we all agree. There's a lot riding on that one then. Good for Pacquiao, always looking to fight ATGs.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:44 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Good post and I would have backed Hatton back then....

Bradley is a bit like old Archie when you watch the films you don't see what is so special...

Yet he gets the job done...

Guess that's what it is all about......

Like I said ...We are talking lower end of the ATG spectrum.....

Anybody wants to make a decent case for Pedrosa and not Bradley then please do...

but please only posters who have heard of Pedrosa........ not wums..

by milkyboy Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:44 pm

Sorry Chris, I'm so rarely right, that when I am, its too much to resist bringing it up ad nauseum.

Certainly hatton fight week on the beeb board was a painful experience. I like to feel I'm open minded to alternative views (Leonard hagler aside!) and amiable to new faces and occasional posters, but the blue moon special invasion tested my resolve on that front.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:46 pm

I remember 50 % of the board picked Hatton to beat Mayweather.........

Now it is a cherry picked mismatch.....

Although I did pick Hatton to beat manny..

by milkyboy Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:56 pm

Hatton did better than I thought he would against floyd. Thought he was in for a beating against manny, but don't think many predicted the manner of it. Of course Ricky was winning the second round...

by hazharrison Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:57 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Good post and I would have backed Hatton back then....

Bradley is a bit like old Archie when you watch the films you don't see what is so special...

Yet he gets the job done...

Guess that's what it is all about......

Like I said ...We are talking lower end of the ATG spectrum.....

Anybody wants to make a decent case for Pedrosa and not Bradley then please do...

but please only posters who have heard of Pedrosa........ not wums..

It's Pedroza. You probably haven't heard of him. Dirty guy, road warrior, dethroned by McGuigan? You can Wiki him but I'd advise against trusting other sources. Make your own mind up on the spelling of his surname and forget what historians think.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:58 pm

Couldn't believe anyone could be so bad against a southpaw......

Should have kept Billy Graham.........He cared about him and why break something that isn't fixed..

I like Hatton but that was naughty.

by hazharrison Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:58 pm

milkyboy wrote:Sorry Chris, I'm so rarely right, that when I am, its too much to resist bringing it up ad nauseum.

Certainly hatton fight week on the beeb board was a painful experience. I like to feel I'm open minded to alternative views (Leonard hagler aside!) and amiable to new faces and occasional posters, but the blue moon special invasion tested my resolve on that front.

They'd probably fit in well on here these days.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:01 pm

Problem with debating you Haz...

Is one ends up getting abused off you all day..

For purposes of the discussion I'll say you are right........

and then when you leave I'll pretend I never said it !! thumbsup

by compelling and rich Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:23 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:not sure about six years at the top truss your stretching the truth a bit there, everybody knows he was beat by manny. in the time of the alphabet belts has bradley really been considered the best welterweight champ out there considering manny held the belt 2 years ago until the bradley fight. maywethers held the wbc belt during that time.

he's probably been 3rd best welter in them 6 years, so not exactly six years at the top

Everybody knows Walcott beat Louis............Everybody knows Norton beat Ali twice..

Doesn't stop those wins counting towards legacy..

I thought Oscar beat Mosley twice..............I credit Mosley with the wins...

Bradley beat Manny...........Just like Manny beat JMM 3/4........

six years is more than enough...Sanchez was three..

cant agree with that reasoning, whats the point on watching boxing if your just going to go off what some incompetent judge says

i give jmm all the credit for being the better fighter in the manny fights, norton also gets plenty of credit for his fights with ali, take away the ali fights and who did ken beat to be thought of so highly. its the ali fights that adds to his legacy probably more so than any other

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:28 pm

So Witherspoon isn't Holmes best win.......

and we might as well mark him from 78-83.....because nothing else counts If witherspoon beats him..

Don't be soft..

by compelling and rich Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:35 pm

never fully watched the witherspoon v holmes fight, but from what ive heard witherspoon should take plenty of the credit

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:37 pm

A win is a win is a win.........

I thought Norton beat Ali three times..........That means record wise Ali x3 , Young and Quarry.........We are looking at top 15 status...Baloney..

If I counted Walcott as winning the first Louis fight which even Louis agrees he did...

He probably wouldn't be second.......on my list..

It's about your record and who is on it.

by compelling and rich Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:43 pm

sven otkke must rank highly on your atg list if only wins count and doesn't matter how you get them

by TopHat24/7 Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:47 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:A win is a win is a win.........

Woohoo!

Never have to read "10-1-1" again..........!

by TopHat24/7 Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:49 pm

compelling and rich wrote:sven otkke must rank highly on your atg list if only wins count and doesn't matter how you get them

Choo-choo!! Another train driven clean through the holes in Truss' arguments. Laugh

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:58 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:sven otkke must rank highly on your atg list if only wins count and doesn't matter how you get them

Choo-choo!! Another train driven clean through the holes in Truss' arguments.

You've posted about 15 times on here.........and nothing in the way of contribution to the argument.........

Ottke wasn't p4p number 3........

Ottke didn't beat two p4pers.........

Three guys Bradley beat went on to become world champions....

Very like Ottke is bradley.........Compelling you can do better than that !!...Even if Toppy can't !!

by TopHat24/7 Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:02 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Whooped from here to next Sunday by Manny, would've lost to Prov if the ref hadn't screwed up calling the kd's correctly. Good win v JMM and then wins over druggie-LP and 'my eyes my eyes' Ortiz-style bottler Alexander. Does nothing exciting or impressive, but isn't an ATG in a month of Sundays.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Chad Dawson must be an ATG.

3 years not just 'at the top' by Trussy's usual limp definition, but as much if not more claim than Bradley ever has/had to being 'the man' at the weight. Adamek, Johnsonx2, Tarverx2 as good a CV as Tim's, all things considered, especially with one blip aside he also adds a couple of Hoppo wins into the mix.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:04 pm

Mate what is your problem ???

by TopHat24/7 Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 pm

You said:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You've posted about 15 times on here.........and nothing in the way of contribution to the argument.........

I was being helpful as you'd apparently totally missed those two entirely fair reasonable and contributory posts.

Unless you think a post only 'contributes' if it agrees with your premise, in which case I suggest you pick up a dictionary and go educate yourself.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:09 pm

I've been ignoring you all day and you don't like it........... Cool

and I know you don't !!.. thumbsup

by TopHat24/7 Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:16 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I've been ignoring you all day and you don't like it...........

and I know you don't !!..

Funny way of showing it:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Mate what is your problem ???

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I don't care what you think..Quote someone else.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ignore the wum.......

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Don't take anything from Toppy agreeing with you..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Stop following me around the board........and stop posting your dross on here....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Do me a favor...You, Dave and Lumbering stay on this thread....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Not much point in asking you to comment on my Bradley thread at the moment...

You won't know who Larry Holmes is.....

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:19 pm

Izzi wrote:Disagree. Is far too early to judge. The guy is still in his prime, he has big fights coming up and there's no guarantee he doesn't go 2-5 over the next couple of years.. Which would put a fairly big dent in that statement he's an ATG.

Has achieved a lot but still has it all to lose.

Not sure defeats really hold back Holy or jones jr's legacy.........

Most great fighters slide at a certain time....It's what happens before that counts

by Hammersmith harrier Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:23 pm

A fairly important question here, do you yourself consider Pedroza to be great?

I do not, I think he was a very good fighter who was a great featherweight but then again so Naseem Hamed and you wont find me calling him an ATG either. Both of them had proven themselves for years and had spells being the best in their division something Bradley cannot claim.

I wont hold Welterweight against him too much but his record there looks better on paper than it actually is but the simple truth is he LOST to Pacquiao. None of this a win is a win is a win crap because nobody credits Chavez for his draw with Whitaker nor does Rios get a shred of credit for his 'win' over Abril. When the result is so blatanty wrong it can no longer be taken at face value. As for his wins over Provodnikov, Alexander and Peterson, big deal, hardly the sign of greatness beating those three now is it.

His best win has come against an ancient Marquez who was shown a few years ago to not be much cop at Welterweight against anyone not called Pacquiao.

Then you get to his 'reign' at 140lbs, again didn't beat Khan so can't be considered the man, it was a hotly discussed debate as to who really was the best in the division, this goes against him too.

ATG??? No not in a month of Sundays, lets have this debate come April when Pacquiao beats him for the second time.

by Boxtthis Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:50 pm

Bradley has good foundations to be considered a great in the future, depending on how things go for him. But, he hasn't been 'the man' at any weight at any point in time.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:50 am

I think the problem Bradley has is he's being compared to the high end greats and not with the canizales / Pedroza types on the low end..

Hammer hit the nail on the head...With his Pedroza comment.......

Often think If pedroza is great ..Terry Norris is a shoe in.

by TopHat24/7 Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:55 am

Bumping your own threads now?

That's even more desperate than regurgitating them.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:57 am

It was 5th down on the list Mate........Why do you bother ??

You haven't heard of Pedroza so there is no need for you to comment..

I haven't started anything !!..Just stop stalking me.....It's pathetic.

by TopHat24/7 Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:57 am

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:59 am

This is internet stalking .............

He has nothing to say on this thread.........and like every other thread I write he just abuses me...

It's not a problem..But it gets boring....

by TopHat24/7 Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:01 pm

by Rowley Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:01 pm

Do you think my warnings over the last couple of days were because I am bored at work? Top hat, if you have nothing to contribute to truss’ threads ignore him. Truss, if top hat makes a valid argument respond as you should any other user, i.e. politely.

If you’re incapable of doing the above use the foe button because I can assure you one or both of you is getting banned by the end of the day if this rubbish continues.

by **88Chris05** Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:03 pm

Toppy, can you explain in no uncertain terms why you just ensured a thread you clearly don't think much of, written by someone you clearly don't think much of, stays at the top of the board please, mate?

Unless I'm missing something, it can only be because you want to wind up Truss and try to get him in to another slagging match. Which both of you have been warned about before, only this morning in fact. The floor is yours to state otherwise, but if you can't, and you refuse to foe him (same goes for you, Truss, although I appreciate it wasn't you who started this little ruck), then you're going to give me and the other mods grounds to make some decisions.

My first choice would be that the pair of you don't foe each other but just decide to debate at least half-cordially and decide to agree to disagree when you clash on something, but we all know that won't happen.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:09 pm

I'm happy to debate with anybody.........

But a casual glance at this thread of mine or any other shows he just trashes everything I write..........

Which is fairplay when I'm in the mood..

by TopHat24/7 Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:12 pm

I ensured it was at the top of the board?

Truss bumped it to the top.

Ok for you, he ass kisses whatever you say.

Admit the three last posts on this thread were petty wind-ups, but what's the point? Truss has free licence to be a dick and everyone else has to fall into line.

Every thread I comment on I make an effort initially to debate the OP, it's Truss that then decides to kick off, hurling insults and generally throwing his toys out the pram. Duran thread is a perfect case in point, totally transparent bollox, genuine effort made to debate said bollox, but everyone just gets the big F-OFF unless it's you saying the exact same thing.

Pedro had a point.

by Lumbering_Jack Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:16 pm

Truss sent Haz a grovelling apology for his recent wummery recently.

Think that says it all really.

by catchweight Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:18 pm

How come only Haz got an apology? Share the love TRUSSMAN.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:19 pm

Gotta love it.....

by **88Chris05** Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:19 pm

He bumped it with a non-offensive comment which was intended to generate healthy debate, as far as I can see. Your comment was a personal dig, on the other hand. Who knows, maybe you'd have got lucky and nobody else would have replied, and the thread would have slid back down the page. But you decided to comment yourself, and what's more it was a comment designed to get a rise out of someone. So yep, you ensured it stayed near the top of the board.

Truss doesn't have free licence. I clearly stated that I was addressing the pair of you on this issue, and it's hardly a secret that he's had to take action from mods / admins in the past.

I said it was you who stoked the fire here, Toppy, but I'm well aware that it's been Truss who has taken the first swipe on other occasions. I believe he was warned for this earlier today, and I just happened to directly address you on this thread as it was your swipe in this case.

by Rowley Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:21 pm

If only there was some device on here where if someone was completely intolerable to you, you did not have to read anything they said. Might speak to Adam to see if such a thing is feasible.

by Rodney Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:27 pm

Find it hard to believe anyone genuinely would be wound up by a stranger on an Internet forum sharing a genuine topic of their own interest. Only one person winds me up in life and that's the WIFE, she has a wonderful artistic way of getting under my skin , if it was a boxing match I'd be beat at the weigh in.

Cheers Rodders

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:30 pm

He isn't intolerable to me........

I'll debate anybody..........I'm at a loss to understand why he needs to follow me around abusing me..

As this and other threads show...

Feel free to lock this thread.....All very silly.

I agree rod........I write topics and If no one wants to comment then don't !!

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