George Ford

Having watched the Exeter v Bath game today I think it is clear that England need to pick Ford if we want to beat the top three teams on a regular basis.

I'm not into hyping players or claiming they are world class but this guy is very special and is in great form for Bath, he seems to grow in confidence every game I see him play and offers a lot more than Farrell IMO.

Yes he might not be international class for some but unless he is given some game time then we will know!

He's improved significantly since Henson joined Bath and started mentoring him.

Griff wrote:He's improved significantly since Henson joined Bath and started mentoring him.

Quote of the Century. Well played.   

Scratch wrote:

Griff wrote:He's improved significantly since Henson joined Bath and started mentoring him.

Quote of the Century. Well played.   

Rightly so.
Simple cause and effect.
But will Ford be the same player if he is not playing along side Henson?

Griff wrote:He's improved significantly since Henson joined Bath and started mentoring him.

Is there proper evidence of this? Do we know if Ford still has hair on his legs for instance?

Is he old enough to have grown hair there in the first place?

And lets face it Ford was probably already smart enough to not annoy Fearns too much

I do hope that Ford does get a chance to show what he can do in an England shirt. I do hope that Stewart Lancaster has learned the lesson of not having a recornised 10 on the bench.

Ford need's to star to get some international rugby experience. He can only get experience by playing in the international game/s.

What with Flood off to France Ford needs to start and seal his place on the squad, what with Farrell. Ford, Burns in the England squad, thing are looking good for England. IMHO anyway.

What happened to his brother? Can we get Henson to coach him?


General hints in the media suggest that Lancaster has enough faith in his outside backs now to not need double cover on the bench so may well put ford on the bench for Goode or barrit

Didn't see the Bath-Exe match. I recorded it but haven't had the chance to watch. All the reports, plus some gents here, say Ford did very well. This is a good thing. How was his defense?

Joe's at Sale I think. Third choice behind Cipriani and The highlander.

Ford took down Ewers fine enough. Defence is fine. Not going to be knocking anyone back and may not be able to stop an offload but he'll do ok.

Got a good name to take over Matt Lucas if Shooting Stars makes a comeback. What's on the board George Ford?

Scrumpy wrote:Having watched the Exeter v Bath game today I think it is clear that England need to pick Ford if we want to beat the top three teams on a regular basis.

I'm not into hyping players or claiming they are world class but this guy is very special and is in great form for Bath, he seems to grow in confidence every game I see him play and offers a lot more than Farrell IMO.

Yes he might not be international class for some but unless he is given some game time then we will know!

Scrumpy I said this months ago.

Good to see you are finally learning something about rugby.

maestegmafia wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Having watched the Exeter v Bath game today I think it is clear that England need to pick Ford if we want to beat the top three teams on a regular basis.

I'm not into hyping players or claiming they are world class but this guy is very special and is in great form for Bath, he seems to grow in confidence every game I see him play and offers a lot more than Farrell IMO.

Yes he might not be international class for some but unless he is given some game time then we will know!

Scrumpy I said this months ago.

Good to see you are finally learning something about rugby.

Really no need for comments like that.

Farrell is still the man with the shirt but I would like to see something of Ford at international level as soon as possible. Unfortunately with the way the fixtures go from here we might end up waiting until the Italy game. Lancaster's aim seems to be to keep Farrell on for as long as possible and I can't see us being comfortable enough against either Ireland or Wales for him to bring him on for any meaningful game time.

Having him on the bench would be a start though.

maestegmafia wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Having watched the Exeter v Bath game today I think it is clear that England need to pick Ford if we want to beat the top three teams on a regular basis.

I'm not into hyping players or claiming they are world class but this guy is very special and is in great form for Bath, he seems to grow in confidence every game I see him play and offers a lot more than Farrell IMO.

Yes he might not be international class for some but unless he is given some game time then we will know!

Scrumpy I said this months ago.

Good to see you are finally learning something about rugby.

Ford wasn't ready a few months ago, but with plenty of quality game time for Bath he has grown and grown.

He started the season as a possible 4th maybe 5th choice 10 for England, now only Farrell and Farrell senior stand in his way IMO. But thanks for taking the time to type something on this thread Mae.  

Ford has always been brilliant, there are a couple of issues he could have at international level. Firstly his place kicking, although i think he's improved since he moved to bath. Lastly i'm still not sure if he can play with his pack going backwards. Both at Tigers and Bath he's played behind a big back thats used to going forward.

HammerofThunor wrote:Joe's at Sale I think. Third choice behind Cipriani and The highlander.

Ford took down Ewers fine enough. Defence is fine. Not going to be knocking anyone back and may not be able to stop an offload but he'll do ok.

Given the ease with which Whitten crossed the tryline in the close vicinity of Ford, I'd say that Lancs may still have some unanswered questions on his defence.

He's not bad in defense but clearly he's not going to scare anyone. With everything in rugby it comes down to balance; I doubt anyone would start him with Care, Ford, Eastmond, Daly, Ashton, Varndell, and Tait but come on the boy is good!

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Given the ease with which Whitten crossed the tryline in the close vicinity of Ford, I'd say that Lancs may still have some unanswered questions on his defence.

Wasn't that because Garvey bought the dummy and hesitated in pushing out, leaving too big a gap between himself and Ford?

Still think Lancaster missed a trick not having him on the bench against Scotland. I know hindsight is 20/20 but that would have been the comfiest first cap ever.

Now he gets to either play in crunch games against Wales' giant backs or Irelands veterans. Neither will be nice.

There is Italy as well but in Italy they have a habit of making it a dire game!

Otherwise we're then waiting for the summer tour to NZ, won't that be nice for a first cap...

He was very good, and it would be interesting to see him play for England now. However, Farrell is playing the best rugby of his career, and is finally showing some creativity, so I can't see him starting.

England's bench options in the backs probably need revising. Perhaps Ford could replace Barritt. Hopefully be the summer Watson will have replaced Goode as well.

Watson is a class act in both defense and attack, plays well beyond his years and is a much better option to have on the bench than Goode.

Scrumpy Ford needs to show that he can bring his good club form to international level.

He should be on the bench for England but definitely not starting at the moment.

beshocked wrote:Scrumpy Ford needs to show that he can bring his good club form to international level.

He should be on the bench for England but definitely not starting at the moment.

Beshocked, I agree but the only way he can do that is by playing. He should be on the bench but also needs to be given a decent run out and not just the final 10 mins of a game. Unfortunately, the Scotland game would have been perfect. I don't see us having that luxury in the next 2 games so it seems like the Italy game could be the next opportunity (though we never seem to make things easy for ourselves there either)

Its essential that we identify which is the back up 10 and give that player games...be it Ford, Burns, Cipriani whoever....

But Farrell has taken his game up a notch and is playing flatter and with creativity we all didnt think he was capable of...so he's not going to lose that shirt...

Geordie, it is essentially the same situation we have at the TH position as well, with Cole out we don't know if we have a good enough backup or not. Although we have far more potential at fly half than at TH, we still don't know if they are good enough to play and if Farrell were to get injured we could have a novice going in.

lostinwales wrote:

Griff wrote:He's improved significantly since Henson joined Bath and started mentoring him.

Is there proper evidence of this? Do we know if Ford still has hair on his legs for instance?

Hasn't appeared in 'Hello' mag yet, so maybe he is not ready to take his career to the next stage.
Also has he been involved in the regulation 'bar brawl' with a team mate ?

killer938 wrote:Geordie, it is essentially the same situation we have at the TH position as well, with Cole out we don't know if we have a good enough backup or not. Although we have far more potential at fly half than at TH, we still don't know if they are good enough to play and if Farrell were to get injured we could have a novice going in.

Very true...as for potential at TH people will be sick of me harping on...... but dont worry Keiron Brookes is class and Scotty Wilson is on his way.

killer938 wrote:

beshocked wrote:Scrumpy Ford needs to show that he can bring his good club form to international level.

He should be on the bench for England but definitely not starting at the moment.

Beshocked, I agree but the only way he can do that is by playing. He should be on the bench but also needs to be given a decent run out and not just the final 10 mins of a game. Unfortunately, the Scotland game would have been perfect. I don't see us having that luxury in the next 2 games so it seems like the Italy game could be the next opportunity (though we never seem to make things easy for ourselves there either)

Final 10 minutes of a game would be a start. I don't think starting Ford would be fair on Farrell at this point in time.

Disagree, Scotland away was a must win game as is every game in the 6 nations. With hindsight we can see that Scotland away was an easy game, especially with the team selected by Scotland but it could have been tougher if the Scotland coach was not such a fool.

The games when you can experiment a bit are Italy and Scotland at home - a luxury we don't have this year.

I understand the necessity to blood a back up but Farrell needs more game time himself to continue to improve.

He's a better player than he was a year ago in my opinion - to continue on an upward curve - combinations like Care-Farrell must be retained.

Care and Farrell have only played two games together in total - both in this 6 nations. If you throw in Ford, you have to bed in yet another new combination.

Plus of course when you think about it Farrell is one of the most experienced players in this current England backline.

Lancaster is already blooding Nowell,May and Burrell don't forget!

yes I agree with that Beshocked. I wasn't Farrell's biggest fan when he started for England but he has grown into the shirt and his half back combo with Care is developing nicely. We have so many new faces in the back line we need to keep some continuity.
He will be the only Lion starting for England Saturday that tells a few stories doesn't it?

Ford should definitely be on the bench but I am looking at seeing the best 2 half back pairings in the 6Ns against each other this Saturday.

yappysnap wrote: Otherwise we're then waiting for the summer tour to NZ, won't that be nice for a first cap...

Wasn't that where a certain Sir Jonny of Wilkionson got his first cap, certainly it was on the tour to/from hell

England have plenty of depth / backup in many positions, but we seem to be a bit exposed in 2 key positions:

3: Cole sadly injured, and backups appear to be not exactly overwhelming yet on either fitness or experience.
10: Ford... 'not ready'.. Burns... 'off form'. Hope young Farrell does not get injured.

These 2 positions worry me the most.

Who is saying Ford isn't ready? I don't think SL is, he's just saying he doesn't want a specialist back up 10 on the bench at the moment, given Twelvetrees and Goode are both competent at that position. SL's side and squad has been constantly evolving over the last couple of years, and improving the bench options is basically the last step.

I think Ford will be an excellent international FH. This is different to the TH position, where it is not at-all clear that Thomas is going to be international class.

I also thought that having watched Ford at the weekend he reminded me a little bit of Dan Carter, he seems to have a lot of time on the ball too and doesn't seem rushed like other 10s.

tazfalklands wrote:

yappysnap wrote: Otherwise we're then waiting for the summer tour to NZ, won't that be nice for a first cap...

Wasn't that where a certain Sir Jonny of Wilkionson got his first cap, certainly it was on the tour to/from hell

Was that NZ...i thought it was he 70 odd hammering in Australia.

Scrumpy wrote:I also thought that having watched Ford at the weekend he reminded me a little bit of Dan Carter, he seems to have a lot of time on the ball too and doesn't seem rushed like other 10s.

Probably his lack of size. He is so small it just looks like has a lot of space around him as he doesn't fill it.

Does he get flat? Being of a small size and that he will take a lot of punishment if he does, how does he stand up to it. He doesn't seem to get injured a lot from what I have seen.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:I also thought that having watched Ford at the weekend he reminded me a little bit of Dan Carter, he seems to have a lot of time on the ball too and doesn't seem rushed like other 10s.

Probably his lack of size. He is so small it just looks like has a lot of space around him as he doesn't fill it.

Does he get flat? Being of a small size and that he will take a lot of punishment if he does, how does he stand up to it. He doesn't seem to get injured a lot from what I have seen.

What a load of rubbish  the guy is a class act, but we really need to see him on the big stage.

It's been a grave error by Lancaster not playing Ford this tournament. Having had confirmation of Flood leaving Ford should've been straight onto the bench in Paris and picking up 10-20 minutes so far.

If Farrell goes down early in the Ireland game and Goode is covering I will send the TV to the same place I sent the fax machine.

Ford has played with great composure, taken the ball to the line and distributed in a manner akin to Charlie Hodgson. His goal kicking (faultless at a windy Sandy Park) is the only issue he needs to work more on. Aside from that he's a superior FH to any other available to us.

When is the match day squad announced ? Will Goode   be the only cover at 10 ? Will Burns or Ford get the call ?

Ford has too otherwise the perception that Farrell is untouchable is going to get awkward for Lancaster to manage

I don't think there is any such perception. Farrell is rightly first choice, because he's playing very well and now has a reasonable amount of experience. Goode and Twelvetrees have both started games at FH, and to be honest I'd still like Goode to leave Sarries and find a club who will play him regularly at 10 as I think it will prove to be his best position.

If Ford is to be on the bench then the other bench player needs to provide balance and options. It'll be the summer tour I suspect before we start to see this. In fact I'd be very surprised if Ford doesn't start at least one test in NZ. By the autumn internationals Ford and Farrell will both be in the matchday 23.

Accept he is 1st choice but right now there isn't even a back up 10…..there have always been at least 2 10s in a match day squad.

Scratch wrote:Accept he is 1st choice but right now there isn't even a back up 10…..there have always been at least 2 10s in a match day squad.

Yep, I think most folk would like Ford to have had a bench spot already.

It's not about replacing Farrell, it's about having a replacement ready if necessary (and a different option if required).

It is rather perplexing.

Scratch wrote:
Accept he is 1st choice but right now there isn't even a back up 10…..there have always been at least 2 10s in a match day squad.

Well there aren't at the moment, and the sky isn't falling in. England have 3 credible FH options in the matchday 23, and Ford will be integrated over the next 12 months. It's good we don't have to rush him straight into the starting line-up.

DaveM wrote:
Scratch wrote:
Accept he is 1st choice but right now there isn't even a back up 10…..there have always been at least 2 10s in a match day squad.

Well there aren't at the moment, and the sky isn't falling in. England have 3 credible FH options in the matchday 23, and Ford will be integrated over the next 12 months. It's good we don't have to rush him straight into the starting line-up.

Farrell, Goode and 36?

Yes.

DaveM wrote:
Scratch wrote:
Accept he is 1st choice but right now there isn't even a back up 10…..there have always been at least 2 10s in a match day squad.

Well there aren't at the moment, and the sky isn't falling in. England have 3 credible FH options in the matchday 23, and Ford will be integrated over the next 12 months. It's good we don't have to rush him straight into the starting line-up.

The only reason the sky isn't falling in is because Farrell hasn't had to be replaced. The argument that either Goode or 36 provide 'credible' FH options at international level in a key tournament match is utterly baseless.

Besides which the 23 should be looked at holistically from a tactical point of view. The bench should be used for a purpose other than to just cover injury. Ford and a FH of his ilk offer a different option to Farrell and an ability to alter the game.

It strikes me as absurd that the country ranked 4th in the world has one FH.

Baseless apart from the fact the England coaching team of Lancaster, Farrell and Catt think that they are credible options. But what do they know?

Nobody is saying the bench is ideal - I've said above that I think Ford will be in the matchday 23 from the summer onwards. This will give England more ability to change the game. The team continues to evolve, but if Farrell gets injured in the 5th minute I think Goode would do a decent job for now.

Chjw131 wrote:

DaveM wrote:
Scratch wrote:
Accept he is 1st choice but right now there isn't even a back up 10…..there have always been at least 2 10s in a match day squad.

Well there aren't at the moment, and the sky isn't falling in. England have 3 credible FH options in the matchday 23, and Ford will be integrated over the next 12 months. It's good we don't have to rush him straight into the starting line-up.

The only reason the sky isn't falling in is because Farrell hasn't had to be replaced. The argument that either Goode or 36 provide 'credible' FH options at international level in a key tournament match is utterly baseless.

Besides which the 23 should be looked at holistically from a tactical point of view. The bench should be used for a purpose other than to just cover injury. Ford and a FH of his ilk offer a different option to Farrell and an ability to alter the game.

It strikes me as absurd that the country ranked 4th in the world has one FH.

Yet the country ranked no1 in the world only had one flyhalf for years

The Mail (I know, I know) are reporting Ford will be on the bench in place of Barritt