What does 606 think of Gatland?

by gatlandgun Thu 06 Feb 2014, 9:03 am

He divides opinion, but his achievements speak for themselves.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 Feb 2014, 9:19 am

I'm going for a tuna mayo salad sarnie today.

by Breadvan Thu 06 Feb 2014, 9:22 am

4 x mini cheese n bacon pies....

by Tattie Scones RRN Thu 06 Feb 2014, 9:29 am

I like him more than utter cack articles.

by SecretFly Thu 06 Feb 2014, 9:47 am

I'm cheating because I'm Irish but I also like Gatland. He's a character. He's needed to give colour to the game in his gruff, beligerent, waspish, cheeky, sneering ways.

Would I be friendly with him if I knew him? Hmmm, not so sure but certainly I think he'd be likeable on a personal level. Would I trust him? - No.

But people like him are needed in rugby Union. I like gruff blunt New Zealanders in rugby - I loved old leatherface put-down expert Graham Henry too.

But he still does and says things I enjoy disagreeing with Wink

by rainbow-warrior Thu 06 Feb 2014, 9:54 am

We all need to remember he is a miserable kiwi, it's in his blood to annoy. I, however, love him because all the kiwis who hate him now will worship him when he becomes the AB coach.

2007 France hammer AB's and dump them out of the WC, Ted was hated by NZ (just in case with short memories have forgotten, google it), they wanted his blood and most certainly wanted him out of the coaches seat. How they changed again once the NZRU kept him on.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 06 Feb 2014, 9:57 am

Great coach, great record, brave selector.

He may not be a visionary, but there's no arguing with his record. The sustained success he's enjoyed is quite remarkable given all the rule changes etc. Much credit should also go to Shaun Edwards clearly, but they make a very strong duo.

Right up there with the best coaches in the NH in my lifetime (McGeechan, Woodward etc.).

by SecretFly Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:04 am

Yes, Shaun Edwards is a bigger part of the Gatland legend than people give him credit for. He was the wild eyed general getting his troops into the right mood before that fateful game last year against England. He was in a passionate competitive rage before the game.

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:07 am

The I'm Irish option is a little lame. Dont forget he has coached 3 Irish teams, Galwegians, Connacht and Ireland. I have fond memories of him when he was ireland coach and I didnt want him to be sacked as we had justy come 2nd in the 6n.

Anyway I went for Im Irish and I like him. His comments re Irish players a few years back were disapointing though.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:11 am

Agreed - although the skill of a good head coach is getting the right people around him. That was a big strength of Sir Clive, and Graham Henry got Hansen and Smith in his team and they no doubt played a massive role during his tenure.

It's one of the reasons Scottish rugby is in such a mess. The men in suits keep appointing coaches on an ad hoc basis, and then on a different timescale scratch around for a head coach. I can't think of the last time the SRU said to a head coach, "you go out and get the right people". Already Vern Cotter is going to be lumbered with a coaching team that I doubt he'd let loose on the Clermont Under 8's touch rugby side (or whatever side it was that Bennett played for....).

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:13 am

Vern Cotter is an exciting apointment though isnt it? Probably the best CV of a Scotland coach for a while?

Id be happy for him for Ireland after Schmidt.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:18 am

I'm delighted by the appointment. So much so that I'm willing to tolerate Scott Johnson's eccentric team selections for a whole year to wait for him.

I'm hoping that when he arrives he just cleans out the dead wood - both players and coaches. There are systemic issues in Scottish rugby that he'll just have to tolerate, but we're a better group of players than the side that surrendered the second half in Dublin.

I think we all agree that Ireland won the game comfortably without having to play particularly well, and that we can't tolerate for much longer.

by SecretFly Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:20 am

GunsGerms wrote:Vern Cotter is an exciting apointment though isnt it? Probably the best CV of a Scotland coach for a while?

Id be happy for him for Ireland after Schmidt.

Just thinking back to Gatland and Ireland... he's recently acknowledged the big part Ireland has had in his coaching career. But the reality is he went to Wales and had a pretty ropey time of it for a while but then matured, got the right people around him and began making inroads.

His experiences in Ireland may have informed his future attitudes about administration, control and even his theories about the game - but Wales have benefitted most from that learning curve.

I just hope Schmidt isn't a similar story in that he cuts his teeth as an International coach with us but then goes on and does the real business with another team. His prerogative of course but I don't want Ireland to be a training ground for International coaches but a place where a coach comes to engage in his best period, not his learning period.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:22 am

SecretFly wrote:His prerogative of course but I don't want Ireland to be a training ground for International coaches but a place where a coach comes to engage in his best period, not his learning period.

I suspect we'll shortly become a training ground for your training ground.....

by Barney McGrew did it Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:24 am

I kinda prefer marmite

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:27 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'm delighted by the appointment. So much so that I'm willing to tolerate Scott Johnson's eccentric team selections for a whole year to wait for him.

I'm hoping that when he arrives he just cleans out the dead wood - both players and coaches. There are systemic issues in Scottish rugby that he'll just have to tolerate, but we're a better group of players than the side that surrendered the second half in Dublin.

I think we all agree that Ireland won the game comfortably without having to play particularly well, and that we can't tolerate for much longer.

Yes to be honest it wasnt a great Ireland performance. Scotland did seem to give up a little. Looking at the players they are all really good. Guys like Gray, Hogg, Denton, Brown, Maitland, Laidlaw and most of the team really would be pushing for inclusion in any six nations team/squad to be perfectly honest.

by gregortree Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:28 am

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:30 am

Hogg was a joy to watch as well. He is unbelievably slippy. Best attacking FB in the north. Easily IMO. People just cant tackle him. He even steamrolled POM at one point and then slipped a classy offload inside. His breaks made and offloads stats were very impressive.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:34 am

I am not a fan of Gats, although his most annoying trait was his use of 'honesty', the amount of interviews he did around '08 when he came out with things like "we are a very honest group, and we will sit around and have an honest discussion, where everyone will honestly accept where they went wrong." etc. He overused honesty, honest, honestly, in his pre and post match interviews to the point I was thinking "well, that just means your a lying $%^£". Since he has stopped that I have less of an issue with him.

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:39 am

Probably doesnt help that he won his first grand slam with the Ospreys?

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:43 am

GunsGerms wrote:Probably doesnt help that he won his first grand slam with the Ospreys?

Did he? 30 man squad, and only 14 Ospreys.

G Cooper, G Delve (Glaws),
De Jones, G Williams, G Jenkins, J Roberts, M Williams, R Sowden-Taylor, T James, T Shanklin (Blues),
R M Thomas (Dragons)
A Popham, D Peel, S Jones, M Jones, M Rees (Scarlets)

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:51 am

How many Os were in the starting team?

by funnyExiledScot Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:00 am

Hogg is probably the only bright spark in that performance, and is a real talent. I like that SJ has the backs working him into space, because one on one he usually slips through, so it doesn't matter if he receives the ball deep.

Still, Rob Kearney was none too shabby either. He's an absolute rock at the back and is a very powerful runner in attack. I loved how we kept kicking the ball to him....

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:04 am

GG - can't believe I am biting, but hey-ho

Wales V England - Non-Ospreys (feilded) M. Jones, M. Williams; Popham for J. Thomas (13),Shanklin for Parker (46), Jenkins for A. Jones (46), Rees for Bennett (58)

Wales V Ireland - Non-Ospreys (fielded) M Jones, Shanklin, S Jones, Jenkins, Rees, M Williams; (D Jones 72), (Delve 75),

Wales V Italy - Non-Ospreys (fielded) M Jones, Shanklin, S Jones, Peel, Jenkins, Rees, R Thomas, M Williams ;De Jones(68), Delve(70)

Wales V France - Non-Ospreys (fielded) M. Jones, Shanklin, Jenkins, M. Williams: S. Jones(56), Rees(56)

Wales V Scotland - Non-Ospreys (fielded) Roberts, Shanklin, M. Williams; S. Jones(58), Peel(58), Jenkins(54), Rees(58), De. Jones(73), Delve(62).

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:20 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:GG - can't believe I am biting, but hey-ho

Wales V England - Non-Ospreys (feilded) M. Jones, M. Williams; Popham for J. Thomas (13),Shanklin for Parker (46), Jenkins for A. Jones (46), Rees for Bennett (58)

Wales V Ireland - Non-Ospreys (fielded) M Jones, Shanklin, S Jones, Jenkins, Rees, M Williams; (D Jones 72), (Delve 75),

Wales V Italy - Non-Ospreys (fielded) M Jones, Shanklin, S Jones, Peel, Jenkins, Rees, R Thomas, M Williams ;De Jones(68), Delve(70)

Wales V France - Non-Ospreys (fielded) M. Jones, Shanklin, Jenkins, M. Williams: S. Jones(56), Rees(56)

Wales V Scotland - Non-Ospreys (fielded) Roberts, Shanklin, M. Williams; S. Jones(58), Peel(58), Jenkins(54), Rees(58), De. Jones(73), Delve(62).

So in the first test Gatland selected 13 Ospreys to start v England?

by tazfalklands Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:22 am

Great Coach, bit of an a$$$ as a human being

by doctor_grey Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:28 am

tazfalklands wrote:Great Coach, bit of an a$$$ as a human being

I thought he was a great coach back when he was coaching Wasps. Still is. Reminds me a bit of the Anerican Football coach Bill Parcells. I think he is the kind of guy whom one would probably like if coaching for your team, but but not like if coaching against. As tazfalklands says......

by fa0019 Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:03 pm

I wouldn't say he's a genius. He's a good coach and has developed a methodology which is successful up to a point but in terms of at the highest level it becomes a bit stuck. At this point he looks a little lost and without ideas.

For me he's too controlling. He wants to control every play 6-7 phases in. Rugby isn't chess though, if you train your players to be robotic marines they become predictable and lack ability to read games/situations.
In the European theatre its good enough and the consistency has to be applauded but against the top tier it becomes easily beatable and so called lesser sides/less talented sides have better opportunities to beat the best compared to Gatland's Welsh side.

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:07 pm

It think Wales' ability to beat SH sides is more a mental thing than specifically the game plan they are adopting. Basically a Welsh side trounced Australia in Australia wearing Lions jerseys with an identical game plan. Why? because their mind set is different when they wear a Welsh jersey. It means more to them and because of their history v SH teams they get sweaty hands when they play them. If Ireland, Scotland, England and France can all occasionally win v SH teams there is no reason other than mental ones that Wales shouldnt be able to do so.

by fa0019 Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:11 pm

If you watch Wales they are very very predictable. Their is a method to their madness but all their plays are heavily controlled.

phases 1-4 are always straight up the middle with big men. Follow phase whether good or bad is a run attempt or kick. They never read the opposition, never read the game. Even when its on they won't go.... brainwashing is a strong term but the players have certainly developed a second nature for this methodology removing their ability to take advantage of in game developments.

Given their quality its good enough for most but come the 3N sides its dusted off nearly everytime.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:38 pm

GG - yeah, all in all it was a very Ospreycentric squad, but the Ospreys didn't win the GS for him. Sorry for the late reply, been on dad's taxi run.

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:45 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:GG - yeah, all in all it was a very Ospreycentric squad, but the Ospreys didn't win the GS for him. Sorry for the late reply, been on dad's taxi run.

haha no worries. have to do that run myself now shortly. You're right of course i just remember at the time the press continously pointing out all the Ospreys in the squad and assumed it had annoyed you being a Scarlet.

by The Saint Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:51 pm

They don't call him Great Gats for no reason.

by Breadvan Thu 06 Feb 2014, 1:58 pm

The Saint wrote:They don't call him Great Gats for no reason.

Books better than the film tbh...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1343092/?ref_=nv_sr_1

by jimmyinthewell68 Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:04 pm

i wish there was a ,love his cotton socks choice because i would pick that . 2010 i wanted his head like a few Welsh men i suspect but now i can't fault the guy . perhaps beating a SH TEAM be nice tho

by SecretFly Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:04 pm

Great Gats?

He's been called other things I'm sure - and with plenty of reason behind it Wink

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:07 pm

The Saint wrote:They don't call him Great Gats for no reason.

Who are they?

by The Saint Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:11 pm

assore, those voices in your head seem to really be giving you a hard time this afternoon.
Doh

by **Notch** Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:14 pm

The Saint wrote:assore, those voices in your head seem to really be giving you a hard time this afternoon.

Careful now. If you start niggling at other posters you risk getting yourself into hot water. Keep it on topic please!

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:25 pm

The Saint wrote:assore, those voices in your head seem to really be giving you a hard time this afternoon.

I'll take that as you dodging the question.

by The Saint Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:27 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
The Saint wrote:assore, those voices in your head seem to really be giving you a hard time this afternoon.

I'll take that as you dodging the question.

What question?

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:29 pm

The Saint wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:
The Saint wrote:assore, those voices in your head seem to really be giving you a hard time this afternoon.

I'll take that as you dodging the question.

What question?

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
The Saint wrote:They don't call him Great Gats for no reason.

Who are they?

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:40 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:GG - yeah, all in all it was a very Ospreycentric squad, but the Ospreys didn't win the GS for him. Sorry for the late reply, been on dad's taxi run.

haha no worries. have to do that run myself now shortly. You're right of course i just remember at the time the press continously pointing out all the Ospreys in the squad and assumed it had annoyed you being a Scarlet.

I always cheat that a bit, if a player has ever played for the Scarlets I count them as one of us, so even now Mike Phillips and North just have the wrong club written next to them on team sheets, they are Scarlets Run

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:43 pm

'Sore, I guess the evidence would be (based on saints argument "more Grand Slams on his CV than Ireland do in 60 years")

Last 60 years 6Ns (and 5Ns) Grandslam records of Gatland and Ireland

Gatland -: '07 coached wales to a 6Ns GS, 12 coached wales to a 6Ns GS.
Ireland -: '09 GS.

Not that I agree with him being great.

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:49 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:'Sore, I guess the evidence would be (based on saints argument "more Grand Slams on his CV than Ireland do in 60 years")

Last 60 years 6Ns (and 5Ns) Grandslam records of Gatland and Ireland

Gatland -: '07 coached wales to a 6Ns GS, 12 coached wales to a 6Ns GS.
Ireland -: '09 GS.

Not that I agree with him being great.

I don't think I asked for evidence I just wanted to know who the "they" he was referring to were. I don't see anyone call him that regularly apart from Saint,he seems to think it winds up the Irish posters and as far as I can tell that is one of the main reasons he comes on here.

by The Saint Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:51 pm

Any particular reason my post got removed? All it did was prove to <Insult removed> how great the Great Gats is.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:58 pm

The Saint wrote:Any particular reason my post got removed? All it did was prove to <Insult removed> how great the Great Gats is.

You know full well why the comments were removed and why I have doctored this one too. Play the post, not the poster. You have been around the block long enough to know that by now!

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:59 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:I don't think I asked for evidence

Ooops, sorry my bad. I am having serious issues with mis-reading stuff whilst skimming today (turned up to a meeting at 2pm, to find out it is on Monday aaarrrrgggghh)

by The Saint Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:12 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
The Saint wrote:Any particular reason my post got removed? All it did was prove to <Insult removed> how great the Great Gats is.

You know full well why the comments were removed and why I have doctored this one too. Play the post, not the poster. You have been around the block long enough to know that by now!

Sorry, that must have been a typo. He asked me who referred to Gats as Great Gats and I posted the link, so I must be missing something here.

by **Notch** Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:51 pm

The Saint wrote:Any particular reason my post got removed? All it did was prove to <Insult removed> how great the Great Gats is.

You, having read my PM, know full well why it was removed. Do you really want to go down this road?

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What do you think of Warren Gatland?