Scotland XV to face Ireland 6N 2014

First topic message reminder :

So after the final Heineken Cup games, where Edinburgh suffered at the hands of a clinical Munster and Glasgow impressed but failed to deliver against Toulon, players have done all they can to merit selection for the opening 6 Nations game.

Front row - Geoff Cross, Alasdair Dickinson, Ryan Grant, Moray Low

Hooker - Ross Ford, Scott Lawson, Pat MacArthur

Second row - Grant Gilchrist, Jonny Gray, Richie Gray, Jim Hamilton, Tim Swinson

Back row - John Beattie, Kelly Brown, David Denton, Chris Fusaro, Robert Harley, Kieran Low, Ross Rennie, Alasdair Strokosch, Ryan Wilson

Scrum halves - Chris Cusiter, Greig Laidlaw

Fly halves - Ruaridh Jackson, Duncan Weir

Centres - Nick De Luca, Alex Dunbar, Max Evans, Matt Scott, Duncan Taylor

Back three - Dougie Fife, Stuart Hogg, Sean Lamont, Sean Maitland, Tommy Seymour, Greig Tonks

* I'm trying to be ambitious and use the poll so you can select who you want in your 15.
** It's not great and some players may not be the correct number i.e. you might want Dunbar at 12. Just pick your 15 going by name, the shirt number is just to help make it clearer.

Was just on the other thread and apparently from the Sru site Barclay is part of the 40 man squad,, so maybe the BBC just not updating?

Not sure just passing on what I read

Notch wrote:Anyone else going to this? Our tickets arrived earlier this week   

Yep Ill be there. Will probably be in the bath pub before and after too.

Kennedy to London Irish







(for a month loan -    )

Strokosh didn't feature at all against us last week and was an unused sub yesterday, so not sure what his current form is.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Strokosh didn't feature at all against us last week and was an unused sub yesterday, so not sure what his current form is.

They're supposed to be resting players for the top 14

Fair to say that the Rev won't be playing any time soon...

ESPN wrote:Worcester Warriors' season appears to have taken another turn for the worst with the news Euan Murray is facing an extended period out after suffering a bizarre thumb injury at a team barbecue.

The Worcester News is reporting the veteran front-row injured his hand while chopping wood at a recent team-building BBQ at Sixways stadium, apparently sustaining significant damage.

http://www.espnscrum.com/scotland/rugby/story/211129.html#vcxS5h41vtETtPcW.99

Was just on the other thread and apparently from the Sru site Barclay is part of the 40 man squad,, so maybe the BBC just not updating?

Not sure just passing on what I read

To stop this rumpour spreading - Barclay is not in the squad!!

The SRU website doe snot get updated very odten and that is not the 6N squad listed.

poddy89 wrote:Was just on the other thread and apparently from the Sru site Barclay is part of the 40 man squad,, so maybe the BBC just not updating?  

Not sure just passing on what I read

It appears the SRU have not updated it - there is a 36 man squad without him from a recent press release

TJ wrote:Vernon at centre?  Came on on the wing at the weekend - and has been working hard to convert to centre - too soon for him?

Definitely not yet.

And Lamont says he's playing until he's 38 so plenty of time...

Maybe Fife on the bench?

I don't care how old/young you are

If you are the best player for that position then you play!

Nathan Hines has signed a two-year deal with Sale. Scotland comeback on the cards? Cotter apparently think he's still got a lot to offer the national team?

Personally, I'd love to have him back for the RWC.

Hmmm Sale is a surprising destination - thought a bigger club would want him, plus Manchester ain't the most glamorous place to live out your retirement!

Can we not have an option of Brown - 6

as Brown is a 6 and should be at 6 and therefore should have an option to select 6

I'm chuffed. I think he'll be a great signing for Sale and it means he'll be firmly 'in sight and in mind' for the RWC. I wasn't sure about him ousting one of the younger guys at either Edinburgh or Glasgow, but this could be a good compromise before he tries coaching?

Nematode wrote:

TJ wrote:Vernon at centre?  Came on on the wing at the weekend - and has been working hard to convert to centre - too soon for him?

Definitely not yet. NEVER

And Lamont says he's playing until he's 38 so plenty of time...

Maybe Fife on the bench?

Fixed.

nickj wrote:I'm chuffed. I think he'll be a great signing for Sale and it means he'll be firmly 'in sight and in mind' for the RWC. I wasn't sure about him ousting one of the younger guys at either Edinburgh or Glasgow, but this could be a good compromise before he tries coaching?  

I'm not sure like.

Barclay is only in Wales and look what's happened there.

Why never Tattie?  I have always rated him as a player - decent turn of speed and good hands.  Got to be better than lamont. Outpaces the fullback to score https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Eyz-_kvN0

He's just further down the pecking order TJ and he's a forward IMO. Fair enough, he's a hell of a galloper when he get's going but I think he'd be smashed before he got a chance in a more organised backline defence.

I just wish he had done this a few years ago when Lineen wanted him to do so. He has all the attributes to be a good centre fast, sidestep, good hands. Played in the backs in age group rugby. Needs to get gametime for Glasgow tho. Anyone know how he did in the B&I cup?

Riskysports wrote:Can we not have an option of Brown - 6

as Brown is a 6 and should be at 6 and therefore should have an option to select 6

Sorry, I can't make any changes to the poll.

Also it is supposed to reflect the realistic choices. SJ has said he'll only play him at 7 so he's there at 7. I'd personally liked to have seen the killer B's united myself.

Captain_Sensible wrote:Nathan Hines has signed a two-year deal with Sale. Scotland comeback on the cards? Cotter apparently think he's still got a lot to offer the national team?

WTF?  

Du Preez has been cited    

George Carlin wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:Nathan Hines has signed a two-year deal with Sale. Scotland comeback on the cards? Cotter apparently think he's still got a lot to offer the national team?

WTF?  

Sorry, the last question mark should be a full stop. Cotter has stated before that Hines should think about playing for Scotland again. I think Hines has still got a lot to offer us.

Captain_Sensible wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:Nathan Hines has signed a two-year deal with Sale. Scotland comeback on the cards? Cotter apparently think he's still got a lot to offer the national team?

WTF?  

Sorry, the last question mark should be a full stop. Cotter has stated before that Hines should think about playing for Scotland again. I think Hines has still got a lot to offer us.

He won't comeback IMO. He's done his time and we have plenty of choice in the SR. Possibly in the back row but I think we're covered.

Nematode wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:Nathan Hines has signed a two-year deal with Sale. Scotland comeback on the cards? Cotter apparently think he's still got a lot to offer the national team?

WTF?  

Sorry, the last question mark should be a full stop. Cotter has stated before that Hines should think about playing for Scotland again. I think Hines has still got a lot to offer us.

He won't comeback IMO. He's done his time and we have plenty of choice in the SR. Possibly in the back row but I think we're covered.

He might, if he likes working with Cotter and sees it as a way to pick up coaching experience. He's still a considerably better player than both of our other two senior locks. Would be a great option to have in the RWC.

He'll have had a reason to quit when he did so I doubt he'll return as a player unfortunately.

We don't need him at second row or even back row quite frankly.

At 10, 12 or 13 though...

When's the squad announced? Thursday?

I agree with Ineffable.

There are plenty of options at second row and also, what kind of message would that send out to the others if a 37 year old was brought back into the team. Fair enough he's still got it but with all this talk of building for the future, I can't see NH being around until he's 50.

I can't believe you guys would pass up on the opportunity to have Scotland's most successful player of the last decade, one who still gets tonnes of games for one of the best teams in Europe, back in the squad.

I'd take him over Hamilton or Kellock in a heartbeat. Fantastic player.

Not sure I would have Hines back - while a great player, has certainly benefited from the 'the longer they are away, the better they were' syndrome

I would actually not have Hamilton in the team either. Think he is done. He has one good game a 6 nations, and then costs us 2 games with his yellow cards.

They ONLY reason i would have him is if we are unable to have anyone else call the line out - but that would be sad if the case

Riskysports wrote:Not sure I would have Hines back - while a great player, has certainly benefited from the 'the longer they are away, the better they were' syndrome

I would actually not have Hamilton in the team either. Think he is done. He has one good game a 6 nations, and then costs us 2 games with his yellow cards.

They ONLY reason i would have him is if we are unable to have anyone else call the line out - but that would be sad if the case

Except Hines' achievements are genuine. Rabo winner, Heineken Cup winner, T14 finalist. No other Scot in recent times can compete with that trophy cabinet.

Captain_Sensible wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Not sure I would have Hines back - while a great player, has certainly benefited from the 'the longer they are away, the better they were' syndrome

I would actually not have Hamilton in the team either. Think he is done. He has one good game a 6 nations, and then costs us 2 games with his yellow cards.

They ONLY reason i would have him is if we are unable to have anyone else call the line out - but that would be sad if the case

Except Hines' achievements are genuine. Rabo winner, Heineken Cup winner, T14 finalist. No other Scot in recent times can compete with that trophy cabinet.

He was a very good player, but sometimes we look through our thistle coloured glasses :-)

Riskysports wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Not sure I would have Hines back - while a great player, has certainly benefited from the 'the longer they are away, the better they were' syndrome

I would actually not have Hamilton in the team either. Think he is done. He has one good game a 6 nations, and then costs us 2 games with his yellow cards.

They ONLY reason i would have him is if we are unable to have anyone else call the line out - but that would be sad if the case

Except Hines' achievements are genuine. Rabo winner, Heineken Cup winner, T14 finalist. No other Scot in recent times can compete with that trophy cabinet.

He was a very good player, but sometimes we look through our thistle coloured glasses :-)

I'm sorry, but this is madness. He is a very good player, and there are only a tiny fraction of players in the game who can match his achievements. How can we be so mealy-mouthed to a genuine great of the game? If he's still good enough for the T14 and Aviva leagues, he's still got something to offer Scotland. Especially as a mentor to out set of young locks.

Captain_Sensible wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Not sure I would have Hines back - while a great player, has certainly benefited from the 'the longer they are away, the better they were' syndrome

I would actually not have Hamilton in the team either. Think he is done. He has one good game a 6 nations, and then costs us 2 games with his yellow cards.

They ONLY reason i would have him is if we are unable to have anyone else call the line out - but that would be sad if the case

Except Hines' achievements are genuine. Rabo winner, Heineken Cup winner, T14 finalist. No other Scot in recent times can compete with that trophy cabinet.

"Stand up man.......I'm not the pope"

We hear you Captain, but how many other Scots have been surrounded by 14 top class players?

He is a great player, and he should still get into the Edinburgh, Glasgow and Scotland side on merit. However, for how long?

We need to be forward looking, and that means Swinson, Gilchrist and Gray x2. Happy to have Hines' input as a coach however. He's been there, done it and got the t-shirt. He was and still is an excellent technical player.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Not sure I would have Hines back - while a great player, has certainly benefited from the 'the longer they are away, the better they were' syndrome

I would actually not have Hamilton in the team either. Think he is done. He has one good game a 6 nations, and then costs us 2 games with his yellow cards.

They ONLY reason i would have him is if we are unable to have anyone else call the line out - but that would be sad if the case

Except Hines' achievements are genuine. Rabo winner, Heineken Cup winner, T14 finalist. No other Scot in recent times can compete with that trophy cabinet.

"Stand up man.......I'm not the pope"

We hear you Captain, but how many other Scots have been surrounded by 14  top class players?

Put it another way - how many Scots have been good enough to earn their place in a team alongside 14 top class players?

funnyExiledScot wrote:He is a great player, and he should still get into the Edinburgh, Glasgow and Scotland side on merit. However, for how long?

We need to be forward looking, and that means Swinson, Gilchrist and Gray x2. Happy to have Hines' input as a coach however. He's been there, done it and got the t-shirt. He was and still is an excellent technical player.

Exactly. I'd rather have Hines in and around the squad, able to offer advice and offer further competition for places than Hamilton giving away another needless penalty and Kellock inspecting another ruck. The four locks you mention are all pretty young, so a bit of age and experience would be good to add to the mix.

funnyExiledScot wrote:He is a great player, and he should still get into the Edinburgh, Glasgow and Scotland side on merit. However, for how long?

We need to be forward looking, and that means Swinson, Gilchrist and Gray x2. Happy to have Hines' input as a coach however. He's been there, done it and got the t-shirt. He was and still is an excellent technical player.

Well I will think back to when he retired and I remember that most posters thought it was the right time. He was coming to the end of his time for Scotland and we mostly felt it was the right time

While I agree as a mentor he would be of use, and I am sure that he could provide a season of useful performance for Scotland, but it really is taking a step back - and really is not looking forward to develop our second rows with an eye on the world cup.

Would we have parks back, as he maybe actually be better that our current 10's or do we focus and develop our 10's to make them better for now and the future...?

Riskysports wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:He is a great player, and he should still get into the Edinburgh, Glasgow and Scotland side on merit. However, for how long?

We need to be forward looking, and that means Swinson, Gilchrist and Gray x2. Happy to have Hines' input as a coach however. He's been there, done it and got the t-shirt. He was and still is an excellent technical player.

Well I will think back to when he retired and I remember that most posters thought it was the right time. He was coming to the end of his time for Scotland and we mostly felt it was the right time

While I agree as a mentor he would be of use, and I am sure that he could provide a season of useful performance for Scotland, but it really is taking a step back - and really is not looking forward to develop our second rows with an eye on the world cup.

Would we have parks back, as he maybe actually be better that our current 10's or do we focus and develop our 10's to make them better for now and the future...?

I'm not saying we dispense with one of our young locks - just that, if we are also going to have an 'elder statesman' lock in the mix, which I think we should, I feel that Hines is a better player still than either Kellock or Hamilton. If he wants to come back and play or play/coach, then I'd welcome him with open arms.

It's not as simple as that CS. It's a question of whether Glasgow or Edinburgh (a) have room for him, (b) wish to prioritise signing him ahead of strengthening in other areas, and (c) assuming "yes" to (a) and (b), can afford him.

There is no questioning his quality, but its sounds like to make room for him someone else has to make way. Who do you suggest is expendable, and for who the side in question could afford to pay compensation to for early termination of their contract? Both sides have other priorities. Edinburgh needs to sort out its midfield, and Glasgow needs to fix its front row (with Cusack seemingly permanently out and Moray Low expected to leave). Both sides have ample cover at lock.

funnyExiledScot wrote:It's not as simple as that CS. It's a question of whether Glasgow or Edinburgh (a) have room for him, (b) wish to prioritise signing him ahead of strengthening in other areas, and (c) assuming "yes" to (a) and (b), can afford him.

There is no questioning his quality, but its sounds like to make room for him someone else has to make way. Who do you suggest is expendable, and for who the side in question could afford to pay compensation to for early termination of their contract? Both sides have other priorities. Edinburgh needs to sort out its midfield, and Glasgow needs to fix its front row (with Cusack seemingly permanently out and Moray Low expected to leave). Both sides have ample cover at lock.

I'm not talking about bringing him back to either Scottish pro team. I'm talking about bringing him back into the Scottish international squad in some capacity, no matter where he is playing his club rugby.

Scotland A squad: Forwards – Olly Atkins (Edinburgh Rugby), Fraser Brown, Kevin Bryce (both Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan (London Irish), Jonny Gray, Robert Harley (both Glasgow Warriors), Allister Hogg (Newcastle Falcons), Tyrone Holmes, Ed Kalman (both Glasgow Warriors), Kieran Low (London Irish), Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors), Grant Shiells (Newcastle Falcons) and Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors)

Backs – Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Jack Cuthbert, Dougie Fife (both Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Grove (Worcester Warriors), Grayson Hart (Edinburgh Rugby), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Byron McGuigan, Henry Pyrgos (both Glasgow Warriors), Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) and Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors)

Looks like we won't be seeing Tonks at 10 for the senior side that soon. Shame, I think.

Captain_Sensible wrote:Scotland A squad:  Forwards – Olly Atkins (Edinburgh Rugby), Fraser Brown, Kevin Bryce (both Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan (London Irish), Jonny Gray, Robert Harley (both Glasgow Warriors), Allister Hogg (Newcastle Falcons), Tyrone Holmes, Ed Kalman (both Glasgow Warriors), Kieran Low (London Irish), Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors), Grant Shiells (Newcastle Falcons) and Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors)

Backs – Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Jack Cuthbert, Dougie Fife (both Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Grove (Worcester Warriors), Grayson Hart (Edinburgh Rugby), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Byron McGuigan, Henry Pyrgos (both Glasgow Warriors), Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) and Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors)

Looks like we won't be seeing Tonks at 10 for the senior side that soon. Shame, I think.

Allister Hogg (Newcastle Falcons) -interesting

Riskysports wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:Scotland A squad:  Forwards – Olly Atkins (Edinburgh Rugby), Fraser Brown, Kevin Bryce (both Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan (London Irish), Jonny Gray, Robert Harley (both Glasgow Warriors), Allister Hogg (Newcastle Falcons), Tyrone Holmes, Ed Kalman (both Glasgow Warriors), Kieran Low (London Irish), Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors), Grant Shiells (Newcastle Falcons) and Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors)

Backs – Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Jack Cuthbert, Dougie Fife (both Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Grove (Worcester Warriors), Grayson Hart (Edinburgh Rugby), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Byron McGuigan, Henry Pyrgos (both Glasgow Warriors), Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) and Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors)

Looks like we won't be seeing Tonks at 10 for the senior side that soon. Shame, I think.

Allister Hogg (Newcastle Falcons)  -interesting

Also, no Roddy Grant.

Captain_Sensible wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:He is a great player, and he should still get into the Edinburgh, Glasgow and Scotland side on merit. However, for how long?

We need to be forward looking, and that means Swinson, Gilchrist and Gray x2. Happy to have Hines' input as a coach however. He's been there, done it and got the t-shirt. He was and still is an excellent technical player.

Well I will think back to when he retired and I remember that most posters thought it was the right time. He was coming to the end of his time for Scotland and we mostly felt it was the right time

While I agree as a mentor he would be of use, and I am sure that he could provide a season of useful performance for Scotland, but it really is taking a step back - and really is not looking forward to develop our second rows with an eye on the world cup.

Would we have parks back, as he maybe actually be better that our current 10's or do we focus and develop our 10's to make them better for now and the future...?

I'm not saying we dispense with one of our young locks - just that, if we are also going to have an 'elder statesman' lock in the mix, which I think we should, I feel that Hines is a better player still than either Kellock or Hamilton. If he wants to come back and play or play/coach, then I'd welcome him with open arms.

Richie Gray should start to fill the 'experienced SR' role....he's had enough exposure to Int'l rugby and there are other leaders in the pack that can wind necks in if need be (Brown, Ford   Beattie etc)

5 years ago I would have agreed about him back playing but not now.

Riskysports wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:Scotland A squad:  Forwards – Olly Atkins (Edinburgh Rugby), Fraser Brown, Kevin Bryce (both Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan (London Irish), Jonny Gray, Robert Harley (both Glasgow Warriors), Allister Hogg (Newcastle Falcons), Tyrone Holmes, Ed Kalman (both Glasgow Warriors), Kieran Low (London Irish), Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors), Grant Shiells (Newcastle Falcons) and Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors)

Backs – Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Jack Cuthbert, Dougie Fife (both Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Grove (Worcester Warriors), Grayson Hart (Edinburgh Rugby), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Byron McGuigan, Henry Pyrgos (both Glasgow Warriors), Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) and Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors)

Looks like we won't be seeing Tonks at 10 for the senior side that soon. Shame, I think.

Allister Hogg (Newcastle Falcons)  -interesting

Long overdue, Ali Hogg should have been involved in the senior squad over the past 3/4 years. Great player who could cover the whole back row. Also has a great try scoring record for Scotland. Would put him ahead of a few of the back rowers currently in the scotland training squad!

You can put together a half decent XV from that A squad:

1.Shiells 2.Brown 3.Welsh 4.Atkins 5.J Gray 6.Harley 7.Holmes 8.Hogg 9.Pyrgos 10.Tonks 11.Vernon 12.Grove 13.Bennett 14.Fife 15.Cuthbert

I assume the A squad will be bolstered as well once the 23 to face Ireland has been named.

Can't understand it if Tonks hasn't made the full squad instead of either Weir or Jackson, very strange and bad call frankly. Also no John Barclay? And why does Alex Grove keep getting picked for the A team and never gets a look in for the full squad when he really is so much better than De Luca? Can't imagine he's happy about it. Two hookers who never get game time instead of Cochrane from Wasps?.....