The Official *England to The Six Nations Title (and the Triple Crown)* Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

England are building. Since the embarrassment of the 2011 Rugby World Cup, Stuart Lancaster has been moving England forward to a happier, brighter future.  A future with hope. A future where overall victory in 2015 isn't out of the question. A future that is English.

In the beginning of Lancaster's reign, in the 2011 Six Nations, an unexpected four out of five victories were netted for England. Scotland, Italy and France were all beaten away. Ireland were thumped at home after England scrummaging dominance. In the middle of all that though were the Welsh, and they scuppered any chances of unlikely glory with a narrow seven-point win.

Then England went off to South Africa in the summer. The young and inexperienced English lost two and drew one, but did take a modicum of credit for their performance in the difficult South African environment. Back at the home of rugby in the autumn, England thrashed a weak Fijian side. Agony then preceded ecstasy. Close defeats to Australia and South Africa were first, where England missed several chances to win both games, before the unbelievable high of beating the World Champions by 17 points followed. Finally, England showed what they could do.

Four wins to start 2013 followed. Scotland were dominated, Ireland were out-muscled, France were overpowered, and Italy were also beaten. Then there was Wales. Grand Slam Glory for 2013 was utterly destroyed by a rampant Wales team, fully intent on spoiling the English party. Wales had the honours, the bragging rights and the trophy. England had to pick herself up again. In the most humiliating defeat, may you find your greatest strength.

Fast-forward to the summer, and a youthful England side beat a very poor Argentine side twice. Then Lancaster could punch the air once more, as England defeated Australia by seven points at Twickers. Another victory over the Argies followed, before, once again, England took on the World Champions and emerged with great credit. This time it was gallant defeat, not heroic victory, but England had shown again what they were capable of.

Lancaster has called this a defining year in the lead-up to 2015. It's certainly a very defining Six Nations. A trip to Paris is first - France v England will always make the mouth water. Then away to Scotland - not too difficult surely, for England? Home to Ireland for the 3rd game - so long the bogey team for England, now the tables have turned with England's forward dominance. England may have to be a bit wary though - just remember what Ireland nearly did to New Zealand! 4th game, home to Wales - it will define everything, rest assured of that. Finishing off with Italy - let's hope England don't slip on the banana skin.

Today on the English landscape, there is an English rugby side filled with optimism. One that holds the required belief necessary for success. Is there superb depth for England, thus covering the injuries? Yes. Is it the best team in the Northern Hemisphere on paper? Yes.

Best go and prove it lads....Come on England!

[Biltong]

Welsh or Walsh ?   

EVERYONE has ALL Irish refs, ever.

Probably both at this point.       

[munkian]

Hey, we are fairly consistent in the 6 nations - we just roll over everywhere else   

[Biltong]

Hey, we are fairly consistent  in the 6 nations - we just roll over everywhere else   

Well to be fair last year's loss against wales was a complete shock to the system. Unfortunately those type of games happen, a game where everything seems equal and the odds on winning the match is very equal, but then by sheer surprise one team manages to gain momentum in often the most unlikely facet you would expect, and before you can wipe the tears from your eyes it is over.

Best is to write than one off, and move onto the next fixture.

[munkian]

I dont think it was a shock if you look at the Italy game before it. England seemed to think they could just turn up and play people out of position and win. They did, just, but didnt learn for the Wales game. And there was much wailing and knashing of teeth.

Plus, England seemed to have peaked against the All Blacks and and gone slowly down hill since. Their win in Irleland was good but it was a fairly turgid afair and they were never going to beat Wales in the dry without scoring tries

[Cyril]

The loss versus Wales wasn't a shock. The manner of was though.

I think most Welsh fans were shocked by the scoreline too

Quietly confident for the game at HQ this year.

[lostinwales]

Said it plenty of times. Walsh wasnt why England got beat in Cardiff. But that didnt stop him from having a shocker, and that did have an effect on the scoreboard, just not on the W.

[Biltong]

Cyril is correct, I meant the manner of the loss.

[Cyril]

Cyril is correct, I meant the manner of the loss.

It had to happen eventually. Law of averages.

[Steffan]

Oh dear. Bitter little English fans that Wales stuffed tem in Cardiff last year and ruined all hopes of Grand Slam glory

Get over it......chaps  

[lostinwales]

Oh dear. Bitter little English fans that Wales stuffed tem in Cardiff last year and ruined all hopes of Grand Slam glory

Get over it......chaps  

Oh dear - weirdly England obsessed Welsh fans strike again. Doesnt matter what was writ, Its another excuse to sling the sh

[Steffan]

Oh dear. Bitter little English fans that Wales stuffed tem in Cardiff last year and ruined all hopes of Grand Slam glory

Get over it......chaps  

Oh dear - weirdly England obsessed Welsh fans strike again. Doesnt matter what was writ, Its another excuse to sling the sh

I couldnt care less about England infact I normally cheer you lot on in RWCs just find it stupid you all blame the ref for losing to Wales last year

[No 7&1/2]

I don't think I saw many people blaming the ref for the defeat just saying his performance contributed to the margin. I'm sure there were 1 or 2, there always are. On the whole though a day better best forgotten and looking forward to March.

[Biltong]

Oh dear. Bitter little English fans that Wales stuffed tem in Cardiff last year and ruined all hopes of Grand Slam glory

Get over it......chaps  

Steffan we are having a polite conversation, no need for your post here.

[Steffan]

Steffan we are having a polite conversation, no need for your post here

Il post where I fliping well want pal but thanks for your advice and 'contribution' anyway...

Anyway back to rugby...personally I think England will beat Wales at 'HQ' this year. Wales look totally devoid of a gameplan during the AI and seem to opt for a kicking game that is executed very poorly

[Biltong]

Steffan we are having a polite conversation, no need for your post here

Il post where I fliping well want pal but thanks for your advice and 'contribution' anyway...

Don't mistake me for one of your buddies Steffan. your post was unnecessary. If you want to discuss rugby then do that, if you want to stir, go make some tea.

[Steffan]

Don't mistake me for one of your buddies Steffan

Oh come on 'moderater' cant we all just get along  

I like discussing rugby  

[lostinwales]

Oh dear. Bitter little English fans that Wales stuffed tem in Cardiff last year and ruined all hopes of Grand Slam glory

Get over it......chaps  

Oh dear - weirdly England obsessed Welsh fans strike again. Doesnt matter what was writ, Its another excuse to sling the sh

I couldnt care less about England infact I normally cheer you lot on in RWCs just find it stupid you all blame the ref for losing to Wales last year

It just comes across as a bit odd/obsessed/blinkered/one eyed when one of the first responses to a comment about Walsh not changing the result is to have a go at England fans for blaming Walsh for the result

England played wonderfully well against Scotland and played a great tactical game vs Ireland in appalling conditions. Victory over France was a combination of some fantastic defense (Fofanna try excepted) and some fortune in attack. Italy was poor and Wales was awful, coupled with a great Welsh performance and an awful ref. We didnt deserve to beat Wales. That is a separate issue from Walsh's performance. If he hadnt had been such an arse and he and his assistants had spotted, for instance, Adam Jones being so streetwise in the scrums then the score would have been closer, thats all. (And no it isnt AJ's fault he got away with what he did, he deserves credit for getting away with it)

[gregortree]

 Biltong.
I am hopeful for a much better 6n for England in 2014, but the banana skins are lined up early on. France in Paris is a potential pratfall as ever, France the great enigma for England to negotiate right there on the opening weekend.  The entire 6n outcome might hinge on this game. England are also vulnerable to a dose of bad weather in Edinburgh the following Saturday. But get past these 2 opening away matches and I believe England will be looking good for the tournament. Wales were the 6N form side last time, and have handed England  some recent lessons. But this time England will be ready, and Walsh will not be reffing, so I feel comfortable about the Wales match. It is not beyond Ireland to ambush England at HQ, but unlikely now. Leaving Italy away, and I do not see Italy's first defeat of England happening in 2014.

[Biltong]

Hi Gregortree, I see Manu Tuilagi is recovering from his injury, I read he might well make the six Nations.

[munkian]

England lost because the team was completely unbalanced and they were playing a Welsh team hitting their stride with a very well balanced backrow. They also failed to listen and adapt to the ref (whether they agreed with him or not) which is a mortal sin during a test match. Plus 'iceman' couldn't kick for toffee and Roberts pretty much neautralised their main attacking threat - Manu.

Anyways, what were we talking about again ?

[gregortree]

Hi Gregortree, I see Manu Tuilagi is recovering from his injury, I read he might well make the six Nations.

I deeply hope so Biltong.. a talent we really could do with in this or any tournament.

[munkian]

He's not back unitll the 3rd Test and won't have had any game time

[Cyril]

I read yesterday that Manu may have recovered by the middle of the tournament but he's pretty much ruled himself out.

We certainly don't want to rush him back. He needs to be play himself back to full fitness with the Tigers and be ready for the summer.

[gregortree]

Munks, thanks, for this bad news. Lack of game time is a serious point.

[Biltong]

Is Barrett going to keep his pot or will Twelvetrees get it?

[nobbled]

He's not back unitll the 3rd Test and won't have had any game time

I'd heard it was likely the 4th test - Wales. Not a game I would start someone returning from injury in...
Bench at best. Might start against Italy.

[nobbled]

Is Barrett going to keep his pot or will Twelvetrees get it?

I'd bet on Barrett. Be interesting to see if Barrett and Burrell can produce anything. 12trees has yet to prove his International worth in my opinion, and although it's not a popular view - I think Barrett plays Lancasters system very well.

[Biltong]

I thought Twelvetrees looked to be a stronger ball carrier than Barrett in the AI's

[nobbled]

I thought Twelvetrees looked to be a stronger ball carrier than Barrett in the AI's

Barritt was injured which is the only reason Twelvetrees got his shot. I don't think he
did enough to secure the shirt. Would love to see him tried again, as he has huge potential. He just hasn't shown it yet for me at competitive international level.

[thomh]

I'd be very surprised if Twelvetrees and Barritt don't both play. It worked well against Scotland last year and if May and Ford are both getting gametime then Lancaster might consider that that's enough inexperience for one backline.

Twelvetrees played very well vs Argentina and New Zealand as well I thought, where he seemed a lot more confident.

[gregortree]

I'd be very surprised if Twelvetrees and Barritt don't both play. It worked well against Scotland last year and if May and Ford are both getting gametime then Lancaster might consider that that's enough inexperience for one backline.

Twelvetrees played very well vs Argentina and New Zealand as well I thought, where he seemed a lot more confident.

I suspect Lancs might select on a horses / courses basis. Some oppos might suit 12T more fluid and distributive skills.
Other opponents might be better met by Barritt's more rugged approach.
I'm not completely sure how LAncs might match them up.

[Duty281]

England the favourites, England the planners and England...glory awaits. Let's hand out some premature plaudits already:

Lancaster doing an extraordinary job

[stub]

Well I think this is going to be a very tight one again. If  England stay mentally tough and play their best rugby then I believe they can win it this year. However obviously  Wales could easily win it and I wouldn't be that surprised to see France or Ireland to do it. I can't see a slam for anyone this year... This is the great thing about the 6Ns -  every game a potential banana skin for the match  "favourite" particularly if the favourite happens to be England. It won't be easy viewing for me but I can't wait. It was watching the *6 Nations with a Welsh friend in 1985/86 that drew me into the game and I haven't looked back since. IMO the best competition in the best sport. Come on England!!

* Edit - 5 Nations.

[Scratch]

What exactly are England building, a new chariot? They will name it the Grand Slam Bandwagon - same model as last year with plenty of grunt under the hood but we have no idea at time of going to press what the back 1/2 of the vehicle looks like.

As for recovering from the embarrassment of RWC 2011, I think there has been some mental dismissal of the embarrassment of the last meeting with Wales in the competition and the comprehensive rebuild the chariot was subjected to, i love reading that the massive scoreline indicates it must have been an statistical anomaly and therefore an outlier, the depth people will go to to disguise their failings. A product recall is advised.

England are really good at the 6 Nations, they consistently come 2nd/3rd with the occasional win. Must therefore be favorites and for a Slam to boot.

Same old England, never learn. And they say Gatland talks it up!!

[Breadvan]

  Scratch, I think you'll find to a man, Eng fans admit we were battered last March. No excuses. But, time to move along and look forward to another tourney. There's only one bandwagon and thats here in Wales. Still harping on and quoting the scoreline at every oppurtunity.

[gatlandgun]

"Building" is the most bullsh1t buzzword used on rugby forums. What a load of tosh.

England have no idea what their best XV is, not cohesion or familiarity and their best players are injured.

[No 7&1/2]

Are you the new Welsh wum in time for 6Ns then gg?

[Cyril]

Are you the new Welsh wum in time for 6Ns then gg?

I wouldn't say he's 'new'

[Breadvan]

There's no imagination in his new usernames anymore....

[gatlandgun]

I'm not wrong in what I say about this "building" terminology though! People who use it have no knowledge of rugby!

[Duty281]

http://sportingdestination.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/2014-six-nations-preview-team-by-team.html

My team-by-team guide to the Six Nations.

I wonder if you can guess who I think will win?

[Scratch]

http://sportingdestination.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/2014-six-nations-preview-team-by-team.html

My team-by-team guide to the Six Nations.

I wonder if you can guess who I think will win?

And i predict the world will come to an end before England wins a Slam this year. Paris away, Edinburgh away….win those then you might have a basis for your predictions, currently such belief suggests vain hope not analysis of form and stats….or even a starting 15. I mean the only thing we really know about England from 9-15 is what color shirt they will wear

[Duty281]

http://sportingdestination.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/2014-six-nations-preview-team-by-team.html

My team-by-team guide to the Six Nations.

I wonder if you can guess who I think will win?

And i predict the world will come to an end before England wins a Slam this year. Paris away, Edinburgh away….win those then you might have a basis for your predictions, currently such belief suggests vain hope not analysis of form and stats….or even a starting 15. I mean the only thing we really know about England from 9-15 is what color shirt they will wear

No my dear fellow, England are playing Scotland and France away, not Paris or Edinburgh.

And the basis for the prediction is very clear: A dominant forward pack up there with the very best in world rugby, a prime example being the England-New Zealand a couple of months ago, and the sheer intensity that England are perfectly capable of mustering. The quality in the squad, I believe, is the best in the Northern Hemisphere presently, even when one takes into account the rather large number of injuries that have befallen England.

Home advantage could also prove a crucial factor in the game against Wales; whilst I have no qualms about England getting the right result in Paris on Saturday.

[The Saint]

Calm down Scratch. Duty does this every year and I don't see a problem with him having his own set of predictions.

[The Saint]

http://sportingdestination.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/2014-six-nations-preview-team-by-team.html

My team-by-team guide to the Six Nations.

I wonder if you can guess who I think will win?

And i predict the world will come to an end before England wins a Slam this year. Paris away, Edinburgh away….win those then you might have a basis for your predictions, currently such belief suggests vain hope not analysis of form and stats….or even a starting 15. I mean the only thing we really know about England from 9-15 is what color shirt they will wear

No my dear fellow, England are playing Scotland and France away, not Paris or Edinburgh.

And the basis for the prediction is very clear: A dominant forward pack up there with the very best in world rugby, a prime example being the England-New Zealand a couple of months ago, and the sheer intensity that England are perfectly capable of mustering. The quality in the squad, I believe, is the best in the Northern Hemisphere presently, even when one takes into account the rather large number of injuries that have befallen England.

Home advantage could also prove a crucial factor in the game against Wales; whilst I have no qualms about England getting the right result in Paris on Saturday.

Would you say the NZ pack is the best basis for comparison? I would have said the packs that SA and France can put out. Perhaps Wales' too, though our depth and adaptation to the new rules will be tested during this 6 Nations.

I agree that the quality in the England squad is high, but I'm not so sure it's the best as I think Wales and Ireland's is up there too. Also, England don't have much quality in the backs. Burrell looks good and perhaps he could make the difference. The defence and counter-attacking ability of England's back 3 (bar Ashton) is unquestionable.

[thomh]

Would you say the NZ pack is the best basis for comparison? I would have said the packs that SA and France can put out. Perhaps Wales' too, though our depth and adaptation to the new rules will be tested during this 6 Nations.

I agree that the quality in the England squad is high, but I'm not so sure it's the best as I think Wales and Ireland's is up there too. Also, England don't have much quality in the backs. Burrell looks good and perhaps he could make the difference. The defence and counter-attacking ability of England's back 3 (bar Ashton) is unquestionable.

I don't think anyone would say that NZ have the most powerful forward pack in the world, but they are very athletic and don't usually struggle much when coming up against teams like the ones you mention. Our backs are a bit of a mess but a starting forward pack that can outmuscle the All Blacks is a good starting point. Hartley, Lawes, Marler, Launchbury and Vunipolas look like they're a level up from previous seasons.

[Scratch]

Calm down Scratch. Duty does this every year and I don't see a problem with him having his own set of predictions.

?

Nor do I and nor do I see a problem with me having my own, suggest you calm down yourself.

[doctor_grey]

Isn't this thread supposed to be our annual discussion of England's path to Rugby glory?

I suppose if we keep talking, we might get it once again.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Not this year I'm afraid doc. But a good England performance in the middle half nonetheless.

[Steffan]

What 2014 Grand Slam 'Glory' are you on about then Duty?

Oh dear...English arrogance shot down again I think

Time to lock this thread mods  

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