Lendl & Becker - just the tip of the Edberg?

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/12/20/edberg-more-happy-coach-federer-if-asked

If we can just get Rafa to bring in Wilander....

I heard that Ferrer may be hiring Kent Carlsson.

Sounds to me like they are all trying to find jobs for "The Boys"

I wonder if the Bryan brothers have thought of asking Johnny Mac   

In the meantime: Bruguera to coach Gasquet for the next season. Borg anyone?

Or Agassi..? with him Becker and Lendl in the mix that really would be fun.

What going on ?

"Nishikori adds Michael Chang to coaching team" :-

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/12/nishikori-adds-chang-coaching-team/49939/#.UrRK4_RdW_g

Llodra or Monfils to bring in Mansour Bahrami.

Henri Laconte to coach Ricard Gasquet and give him a humour transplant.

Ilie Nastase to coach Victor Hanescu to make him a REAL piece of work.

Greg Rusedski to coach Tomáš Berdych to make sure he only gets to one slam final ever.

Goran Ivanišević to coach David Ferrer and meld minds to become the ultimate lucky winner and win the FO when the other top ten have been struck down by flu or can't be bothered to turn up.

Looks like its official for feds!

Roger Federer
I am happy to announce that beginning in Melbourne, Stefan Edberg will join Severin Lüthi on my coaching team. Severin, who has been part of my team for the last 7 years, will do most of the weeks and Stefan has agreed to work with us for at least 10 weeks starting at the Australian Open in Melbourne. Stefan was my childhood hero, and I am really looking forward to spending time and learning from him.

Interesting thoughts from Rafa in this article.


Ever since he was just four, Toni trained him in his academy in Mallorca with only one ambition — to make him the physically and mentally the toughest athlete. Long after practice sessions were over, Rafa would be left alone on the academy court. He was allowed to return only after he collected all the practice balls to put in the bag so that he and the other academy students could start practising next day.
Once Toni even blasted his own mother — Rafa’s grandmother — for bragging in front of guests at home after Rafa had won a junior tournament. Tony feared that such praise could get to Rafa’s head and so he always tried to keep his nephew on his toes. And which eventually helped him become the most ruthless champion tennis has ever seen.
So it’s not surprising that Novak Djokovic’s decision to hire the legendary Boris Becker as the Serb’s new head coach doesn’t bother him — even though the Serb stands between him and his goal of matching or even breaking Federer’s record 17 Slams.
“I am not obsessed with Djokovic or even Murray. I am sure same is the case with them as well,” Nadal said as a matter of fact on Thursday when he was asked about his thoughts on Djokovic’s new partnership with Becker and Murray’s gloriously successful one with Ivan Lendl.
“As for me, I have never thought of changing my team. We have been together in all the ups and downs. Of course we have had so much success. It has been a great journey.
“And I am not in Novak’s position. I can’t comment on this topic. But yes, there has to be a reason behind it. These days many players are hiring former players.
“As for Novak, I don’t know what his ideas are. But if you ask me, yes, it’s difficult to change your style when you are 26 or 27. I don’t think they will do that. Maybe he wants to become a more complete player. But it could be a step-by-step process,” said the world number one. Nadal says he doesn’t play tennis to prove the doubters wrong — even though his success on the hard courts in 2013 showed that he could be equally ruthless on a surface many thought wasn’t his comfort zone. “Well I have nobody to convince. I just play my own game. Yes, everybody is free to give their opinion,” he said.
“When you are in the limelight for so many years, there will always be things people would say. I don’t listen to them. I just do my job, which is to play my game as well as I can. And I try to do it with the right attitude.”
The 13-time Grand Slam champion, however, admitted that the 2013 season was the most remarkable one of his career. “Yes when I look back it was the most difficult and most emotional season of my life. I was out for so many months due to the injury problem. About 10 months ago, I wasn’t sure if I would be able to compete ever again. Honestly it was a bit of surprise for me as well that I did so well on my return, winning two Slams and so many titles. So it feels wonderful now.”
Nadal expects more intriguing battles with Djokovic in the new season. “I know Novak beat me lot of times in 2011. He was in great form. This year has been pretty even. I beat him a few times and then he beat me quite a few times as well. That’s what you get from the number one and number two players in the world. There is always going to be tough matches.”
The Spaniard also shared his thoughts on a fading rival. “I am not in Roger’s mind to know what he is thinking. Yes, by his high standards, 2013 was not great season for him. But he did play well in some tournaments, reached the semis at the ATP World Tour Finals in London. It will come down to how he manages his season. I know he is 32 now. His motivation level will also become a factor. But knowing Roger, I am sure he will go into the new season with the very best ambitions.”

.

So Lendl, Becker and Edberg...

Will the top of the game now be more like X-factor, with as much focus on the mentors as the people competing?

If so, which one is Louis Walsh?

The guy who I'm going to punch in the face!

LuvSports! wrote:The guy who I'm going to punch in the face!

Give him one for me please  

I hear Rafa is considering responding by adding British tennis legend Alex Bogdanovic to his team as head coach.

Yes so he says in the above article   

He's covering it up Haddie. Bogdanovic has a tennis mind like no other, so he wanted it kept quiet.

I'm not a fan of players being coaches. It works for Murray because him and Lendl are more similar than the average player/coach. What on earth Becker can teach Nole that isn't cupboard related is beyond me. Only real upshot for Nole is that Becker isn't/wasn't a better player than him, so they shouldn't have that issue most pros have when coached by legends (namely the legend is so good that he can't understand why the player cant do something he found relatively easy). How often has this actually worked out? Past a certain age in sport, you're better off hiring a mentor (for the mental) and a video analyst. Coaches are really only necessary to get you to the stadia.

This is not ignoring the possibility of a placebo effect, with players thinking the fact that they have a multiple grand slam winner as head cheerleader is actually making a difference.

I met up with cricketing great Sunny Gavaskar a few days ago. Was interesting to get his view on batting, mainly because it went so far against conventional wisdom. Had a similar run-in with cricketer Herschille Gibbs a few years ago, where he basically said unscientific nonsense like "If you're positive, the luck is with you", and "As long as you keep your head still and hit through the ball, you'll be fine".

The point of these anecdotes is to imply that Most greats (in almost any sport except golf, in my experience) were actually quite flawed, and have unique talents that allowed them to get away with their gaping holes - barring a remarkably obvious flaw, they are worse at tightening techniques than people who turn spanners anti-clockwise to tighten bolts.

KR - Becker, like Lendl, is known as one of the mentally tough players of recent generations. That is surely going to be a big help for Novak, as well as helping him with his volleys and, more specifically, when to come to the net and when not to.

I agree that Lendl and Murray have some similar traits which have helped the relationship work, but whilst Lendl has made a number of small adjustments to improve Murray, the impact he's had on him mentally cannot be underestimated.

Murray was known for being the man guaranteed to mentally freeze in slam finals, to be too afraid to go for winners when it mattered. Lendl has turned that on its head. The level he produced in that 5th set of the US open final to win his maiden slam was a stunner for us Murray fans. We'd never seen him at his very best at the most crucial moment before. Same in the last game of Wimbledon this year.

Novak may not suffer from the same issue Murray did, but he has gone from mental giant in 2011 to someone his main rivals feel they can get on top of in the big matches. Becker has always gone on about staying mentally tough and being clinical. I think the appointment is pretty much bang on when you look at the areas Novak should be looking to improve.

Lendl, Edberg and Becker all back in the game -

My take:
Murray/Lendl: very good combo (well, hindsight is 20/20, so easy to tell)

Federer/Edberg: cautiously optimistic, I think it may end up working well, but there are some risks

Djokovic/Becker: horrible; cannot see anything good come out of it.

Yeah, Edberg and Federer could work, although given Federer's aversion to full time coaches, I'm pretty sure he too doesn't see much benefit for a coach besides getting him to the stadium. Maybe at this point in his career, he just wants some companionship, and thinks having his idol touring the world with him is a tick off his bucket list? Can't see a prime Federer even considering this.

Still not convinced re: Becker and Nole, so maybe I'm underestimating Becker's cheerleading ability, sure Becker was mentally tough, but I'm not sure he can really add anything.
ND -"So Becker, how do I win on clay?"
BB - "No clue"
ND - "Okay, youre greatest rival Sampras won Wimbledon, and you had to get it back, how did you beat him?"
BB - "My back garden, he stole the keys, never gave them back"
ND - "Alright, how do I win a seventh Slam?"
BB - "Ooh, no idea..."
ND -"Winning slams past the age of 26?"
BB - "Back garden, keys, stolen, stay away from cupboards"
ND - "Can you at least help my serve?"
BB - "Tongue left = serve left. Tongue right = serve right"

i agree Becker as a coach may well be ridiculed and combined with Novak highly criticised.

However I for one wont forget what a great player he was his personal llife was his business... and he may well have been a better coach to some of the lesser players.

The thing that I find strange as I believe Rafa does that Novak needs a new coach at all frankly... probably a smoke screen 

It's an easy one to ridicule, and a difficult one to judge whether it's a success in a couple of years time. After all, Novak's not too shabby as it is. But I think it could be a good move. Novak's game is pretty much without weakness. But he has struggled mentally in big matches.

As for Becker never winning RG having any impact... Well, Lendl never won Wimbledon yet Andy broke that 77 year British male drought. In fact, grass was easily Lendl's weakest surface and yet since they joined up Murray has lost only 1 match on grass out of about 30, winning Queens twice, the Olympics, and Wimbledon.

I'm a lot more optimistic that it could work. Novak is only looking for an additional percentage or two, and I think Becker with his mental toughness could achieve that.

kingraf wrote:
ND - "Can you at least help my serve?"
BB - "Tongue left = serve left. Tongue right = serve right"

  
Bit harsh but made me smile!

The more I hear about the situation, the more I think Vajda wanted to scale his role back. Novak said they were talking about it as early as the middle of the year. I can fully understand this. It's a lot of time on the road for a man with family commitments.

A lot of the doubts about Djoko/Becker come, I think, from them both being extroverts who love a camera on them. Lendl and Edberg also both have personalities which are similar to the player they are coaching but those combinations are not seen as volatile.

But Novak is not going to be reckless with his career and Becker doesn't need the money or profile, so they must  genuinely believe they can work together.

In playing terms, I can see the logic. Becker's great strengths as a player are the areas where Novak is weaker, so it's a chance to learn from one of the best.

The timing feels suitable too. I'd place Djokovic and Becker as pretty much neck and neck in "all time" standing in tennis. Neither will be in awe of the other and nor will they feel superior. I expect communication will be direct but respectful.

I don't see it as a big gamble because I don't see a downside. Even if it doesn't work out, I can't see Becker harming Novak's game.

The upside is potentially huge though. If a season that is generally seen as a bit disappointing can yield a slam, 3 masters, the WTF and 12,000+ points, then imagine what can be achieved with a small increase in confidence and some improvement at the net!

I thought 2013 was a little flat overall for tennis but I'm getting excited about 2014.

kingraf wrote:ND -"So Becker, how do I win on clay?"
BB - "No clue"
.....

I also think Becker is a bad choice but for different reasons.  I think there is a big difference between being a coach and being a player, and you are not hiring a coach for what they could or could not do on court.  For example, I do not at all buy the view that Becker would help Nole learn how to volley; that is not what one would hire him for.  Likewise, I think it is entirely irrelevant that Becker was not a clay court type.

When I think "great coach", I am thinking discipline, organization, ability to analyze the game.  Lendl has all those in abundance, plus I think that is what Andy needed at the time.  So it was a great fit.  Having been a former great himself, Lendl would also have had the authority that maybe Andy was not willing to grant others so readily.

In Roger's case, one thing I think he does need is someone who can look at his game and provide feedback.  Roger can get a bit stubborn, but he is running out of time if he wants to win something big still, so he has no room for stubbornness and sticking with things that may not work.  That is where I think Edberg can help - provide independent feedback.  I do not necessarily think Roger needs Edberg as a full time coach, and it does not look like they are planning on a full time arrangement either.  There are some risks though:  Will Edberg be able to spot anything that can help Roger or will he lead Roger to dangerous tinkering with things that are not broken?  Will Roger be willing to listen?

However, Becker does not strike me as coaching material at all.  I doubt he has the discipline required to be a good coach; his pursuits after he retired smack more of showmanship and enjoyment of life rather than of focus and discipline.  As I said above, I think it is naïve to think that Becker will teach Nole how to volley or serve, and I doubt Nole would be silly enough to think so.  The only area where I can at all see any potential - and Nole hinted at that himself - is in the mental strength aspect.  If Nole feels that some of his losses last year or two have been due to mental issues, he may want to have someone who had been there and done that in his corner.  However, that strikes me as insufficient justification to make Becker a full time coach, and reduce Vajda's role.  I think there is more to lose than to gain there.  Plus it is not like Nole does not know how to win.  He has been there, done that himself.

Anyway, one way or another, it will be interesting.

HM Murdoch wrote:I don't see it as a big gamble because I don't see a downside. Even if it doesn't work out, I can't see Becker harming Novak's game.

Why not?  It could all fall apart.  With Nole, it did once already.  He has 12,000+ ranking points.  There is room for it to go to zero.  Plenty of downside from where I see it.

My view is that Becker could significantly hurt Nole's game and that likely the best outcome will be for them to realize sooner rather than later that this was not a good move and part their ways.

SB, it's partly because of the Todd Martin period that I don't think Becker will do much damage. After all the problems from changing his serve, there is no way that I can see Novak doing radical overhauls of his game this time around.

I see it as a bit of help with coming forward but mainly as an experienced head to talk to before the biggest matches.

I do agree that Becker doesn't seem like a natural coach though. It wouldn't be a surprise if he bails out. Who knows though, maybe having a project like this will give him a focus?

I'm watching this space with anticipation!

HM Murdoch wrote:mainly as an experienced head to talk to before the biggest matches.

That is the only area where I can also see anything good possibly coming out of this arrangement.  But the way they talk about it - bringing Becker in as the head coach and reducing Marian's role - sounds much more ambitious and I say risky.

HM Murdoch wrote:I'm watching this space with anticipation!

I agree on this.  I am very skeptical but will be happy to be proven wrong and - one way or another - it will be interesting to watch.

Danny_1982 wrote:

As for Becker never winning RG having any impact... Well, Lendl never won Wimbledon yet Andy broke that 77 year British male drought. In fact, grass was easily Lendl's weakest surface and yet since they joined up Murray has lost only 1 match on grass out of about 30, winning Queens twice, the Olympics, and Wimbledon.

Lendl may not have won Wimbledon, but he had seven semi-final appearances there, and it could be argued that the current conditions at SW19 suit his playing tactics and "expertise" more now than they do Beckers. I could of course be wrong, and Becker may be Vince Lombardi, Alex Ferguson and Bob Woolmer rolled into one, but I suspect he's more Tyson Kidd, Roy Keane and Martin Johnson.

Becker won the aus open in 1996 i believe. He would have been 28/29 at the time.

kingraf wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:

As for Becker never winning RG having any impact... Well, Lendl never won Wimbledon yet Andy broke that 77 year British male drought. In fact, grass was easily Lendl's weakest surface and yet since they joined up Murray has lost only 1 match on grass out of about 30, winning Queens twice, the Olympics, and Wimbledon.  

Lendl may not have won Wimbledon, but he had seven semi-final appearances there, and it could be argued that the current conditions at SW19 suit his playing tactics and "expertise" more now than they do Beckers. I could of course be wrong, and Becker may be Vince Lombardi, Alex Ferguson and Bob Woolmer rolled into one, but I suspect he's more Tyson Kidd, Roy Keane and Martin Johnson.

Didn't Becker get to 3 or 4 RG semis as well? So, like Lendl, he wasn't too shabby on his weakest surface either.

I just think the judge and jury have come out a bit too early on this one. I can understand the scepticism, but as I said earlier, if Becker can adapt to coaching then he could end the relative mental fragility that Novak has shown in the big matches this year.

It's interesting that Uncle Toni has zero RG titles to his name and hasn't even made a final. In fact as far as I'm aware the only trophy that Uncle Toni has won was a small one for coming in third place in an under 12 table tennis tournament. It's difficult to understand how his prodigy has won not one but eight shiny RG trophies. Just imagine what Nadal could have achieved if only he had a celebrity coach. And just imagine how Uncle Toni must feel knowing he can get the better of several multi slam winning champions.

Maybe the only way to beat Rafa at RG is to let his opponents bring their own favorite tennis "legend" on court with them along with their racquets? But even then it might be slightly tricky  

Thanks for that sarcasm HE. I think Lendl, Becker and Edberg have achieved enough to be elevated above the status of "celebrity coach".

I'm delighted for Rafa that he's never felt the need to change his head coach. I'm amused that you think it's something to brag about though. As if the other guys are somehow weaker for changing.

Just like football managers, often the best coaches weren't the best players.

Becker will seek to aid Djokovic's aggression/shortening of points. Not sure it will work though, plus Becker was all about imposing his character on his opponents...not sure Djokovic wants to go down this route. It's a weird tie-up...maybe opposites do attract after all?
I don't particularly see what Edberg can help Federer with....their games are very different...but again Federer is looking to kill points quicker from the foreground. However, that approach puts a different set of strains on ageing bodies, just ask Sampras.

Danny_1982 wrote:Thanks for that sarcasm HE. I think Lendl, Becker and Edberg have achieved enough to be elevated above the status of "celebrity coach".

Danny_ But I referred to them as "tennis legends" too. My point was that that as coaches they have done nothing to elevate themselves above other coaches. On the coaching scale they are merely "celebrity coaches". A sparkling trinket that may add charisma but with little substance. Similar perhaps to the celebrities who may have achieved much in their chosen field who choose to try their hand (and feet   ) at ice dancing on that popular show. Like them they may get lots of media coverage and everyone will "ooh" and "ahh" if they don't fall over. Did you know that one newspaper was talking about the new battle between Lendl and Becker   with Lendl coming out as the superior coach because of his achievements on the tennis court. Ha ha! Maybe today's player should be a little wary because since that celebrity ice show no one is interested in who wins the real world championships in ice dancing.

Well that's what I think anyway  

Lendl as a coach has seen his pupil win 2 slams, an Olympic gold medal, and finalist in 2 other slams. I think he can be promoted above celebrity coach now.

I think you're missing the point here. Would these great former players be able to develop a player from his teens to the top of the game? No idea. That requires skills as a teacher. But they aren't teaching these guys how to hit forehands and backhands. They already do that pretty well. They are there for strategy and mentality, something they have proved they can implement successfully in their own careers.

Mentally, they are more useful than coaches who haven't played to a high level as they have experience of being in that position and knowing what it takes.

I am somewhere in between on this. Agree that a former tennis great is likely to make a better coach than a random person off the street. But when comparing against a top tennis coach, I think it is not clear he will do better. In fact, on average, I would expect he should be expected to do worse.

I certainly do not think it is as simple as to say "hire a tennis legend, and that will likely help you".

Has anyone heard of a certain Mr. Jimmy Connors, winner of 8 slams?

laverfan wrote:Has anyone heard of a certain Mr. Jimmy Connors, winner of 8 slams?

Sharapova's heard of him!

Connors probably only saw the "no sex with Sharapova" clause a day Cincinnati..

It's been really noticable that the off season is longer now than it used to be. Seems to have been going on forever.

This is what Nadal had to say about players who have hired celebrity coaches

Nadal, who has been coached by his uncle Toni all his life, says he doesn’t need a tennis legend to guide him on tour. “My feeling is that is depends on the player,” said Nadal. “I think coaching tennis is not a big deal. We are not doing something very very difficult – tennis is a simple game at the end of the day.

“It’s more about the player believing in the work that his coach is doing. Some players need somebody who was a great champion in the past to believe in them. Someone for example like me, I don’t need to have a great champion in front of me coaching to believe that what that person is telling me is the right thing.

“So in my opinion it’s more about the player than the coach. In my case, I never needed a former champion to be my coach. What I’m saying is that there are different ways to have the right coach.”

http://www.sport360.com/article/mubadala-championship/17883/nadal-keep-it-simple-quest-2014-success

"celebrity coaches" - another HE trademark half-witticism.

Rafa is talking sense, yet somehow HE manages to spin it into nonsense.

Julius. Well what he says sounds sensible to me too   

As I just cut and pasted a direct quote from Nadal I'm interested to know how I've managed to spin it into nonsense? Please explain. Or is that just what you say about ever comment I make?

I think it requires another thread to explain

I've checked the other thread and there is no explanation. Maybe your still working on it? I can imagine coming up for an explanation might be a little tricky but I will wait patiently.

Name me a player who has hired a "celebrity coach". It's a nonsensical term. Rafa didn't use it and yet you wrote that it was what Rafa had to say "about players who have hired celebrity coaches" - the usual nonsense.

It's now funny that the late 80s trio of Edberg, Lendl and Becker are all now coaching...talk about buses coming along in 3's!

What next...Agassi, Sampras and Goran/Rafter/Courier?

lydian wrote:It's now funny that the late 80s trio of Edberg, Lendl and Becker are all now coaching...talk about buses coming along in 3's!

What next...Agassi, Sampras and Goran/Rafter/Courier?

Goran is already here! He's coaching Cilic.

Oh yes HMM...come on Henman...Evans is calling you!!!

JuliusHMarx wrote:Name me a player who has hired a "celebrity coach". It's a nonsensical term. Rafa didn't use it and yet you wrote that it was what Rafa had to say "about players who have hired celebrity coaches" - the usual nonsense.

It wasn't me that came up with the term "celebrity coach" to describe retired Tennis champions taking coaching roles. You should get out more that is how much of the media describe them.


For example Neil Harman writing for The Times under the heading "Nadal will not sign celebrity coach" On the day that Rafael Nadal said he would never go in for “celebrity coaching”,....