Hello Mr. Edberg and Becker, I'll kindly join you in the 6 slam club

Novak deserves to be acknowledged as an alltime great, I think the case is closed now. Many knocked him as a choker and as a one time wonder. But now he is a legend, no matter what you want to say about his style or his personality or that he looks like screech. How fitting that he will behe last name on that wonderful Norman Brooks trophy. Novak the current king of Laver court, he has laid down his marker, and carved out his own legacy in the gruelling Fedal dominance. When other players wilted, he fought, and got better and got better still till he made his bones. He has relentlessly improved himself as a person and as a player. And to defeat the incredible players he has beaten to get to number 1 makes it all the much sweeter. It is nearly 5 in the morning and I still haven't slept on the west coast of CA, and I poored a small nip for myself to enjoy this victory. The first time I started drinking at 430 in the am and I am a party animal, so that tells you something about how much this means to me as a fan. Beautiful Novak, absofreaking beautiful.

Congrats to Novak

Just a reality check Socal: are you sure you are the Novak Djokovic??

Well done to the guy anyway!!

I am delirous with joy and lack of sleep JK, and now we have Novak moving up the slam list with great methodical precision just like his beautiful groundstrokes. I am priveleged to witness it and I like all the moaning from the detractors, let them miss the boat we have lovely cocktails on the Djokovic love boat and horney single women. You can call me captain stubbing.

lol tonight go slow with your drinks then!

socal1976 wrote:I am delirous with joy and lack of sleep JK, and now we have Novak moving up the slam list with great methodical precision just like his beautiful groundstrokes. I am priveleged to witness it and I like all the moaning from the detractors, let them miss the boat we have lovely cocktails on the Djokovic love boat and horney single women. You can call me captain stubbing.

Gavin MacLeod, who played Captain Stubbing on Love Boat, also starred in the Mary Tyler Moore Show - as Murray Slaughter!

Oh I will only have one drink for celebration I like to party but I actually got sheet to do tomorrow JK.

I would argue that 6 slams and two YE #1s now merits a place on 'tier 2' of the all time greats list.

He is now worthy of comparison with the likes of Becker, Edberg, Mac, Agassi and Lendl.

A junior member of that club perhaps, but I think he's on the list now.

For the record, I'm applying the principal that 6 slams is the minimum to be considered and 10 slams or more places you in 'tier 1' with Fed, Sampras, Borg etc!

Murdoch I already rate djokovic above the other two 6 slammers, he is much more consistent than both those guys and I just feel he has more in the tank. Despite the detractors I predict more glory for the serbian machine. I would put Lendl more in the first tier of greatness myself on the fact that he dominated one of the strongest periods in tennis and was so consistent. Congats by the way.

First player in the open era and first since Emerson to win 3 AOs in a row.

Above Federer, Agassi, Edberg, Courier, Lendl, Kriek, Vilas, Rosewall with 2 in a row.

HM Murdoch wrote:I would argue that 6 slams and two YE #1s now merits a place on 'tier 2' of the all time greats list.

He is now worthy of comparison with the likes of Becker, Edberg, Mac, Agassi and Lendl.

A junior member of that club perhaps, but I think he's on the list now.

For the record, I'm applying the principal that 6 slams is the minimum to be considered and 10 slams or more places you in 'tier 1' with Fed, Sampras, Borg etc!

By that logic there is a "Tier 0", when you get 17.

socal1976 wrote: I would put Lendl more in the first tier of greatness myself on the fact that he dominated one of the strongest periods in tennis and was so consistent.

He's pretty darn close but I think 8 slams is too few for the top tier. I'm open to persuasion though!

bogbrush wrote:By that logic there is a "Tier 0", when you get 17.

No, you get grouped with Jordan, Ali, Schumacher etc as a Sporting Legend.

All time champions
Emerson 6
Agassi 4
Crawford 4
Federer 4
Rosewall 4
Djokovic 4
Anderson 3
Laver 3
Quist 3
Wilander 3

OPEN ERA only
Agassi 4
Federer 4
Djokovic 4
Wilander 3

It damages Federers legacy to realise that 4/17 are here. I expect he keeps quiet about that.

Henman Bill, you are most welcome on the Djokovic love boat, we will put another shrimp on the barbie for you, and give you a mai tai. Let the moaners moan, let the lovers make love, let the drinkers drink.

Well done to Novak Socal

Us Murray fans can take it as there will be lots more opportunities in the future, unlike for some lol

Come on Bogbrush, stop trying to spoil Socal's victory thread by comments with "17" in them. There is a time (later) and a place (not on Socal's thread) for those.

Let the poor man have a drink and some cheer before going to sleep.

Let us be gracious Fed fans in defeat?

Well done Djokovic

Hope you don't have to work early Socal

It's only gentle fun, hopefully that's clear enough, but just for the record it's tongue in cheek.

Exactly sportslover, as I have been saying the present and near term future belongs to Andy and Novak and their epic battle for supremacy. Two worthy and gacious sportsmen, wonderful talents, and credits to the game. Those wo want to cry and moan online about how bored they are always have the option of just not watching. We will enjoy the tennis and some liberal use of the libations to ease the pain of a hard fought defeat or lubricate the gears of the party bus. Andy and his fans should be proud.

carrieg4 wrote:Well done Djokovic

Hope you don't have to work early Socal

No as a self employed individual I work hard but the boss is allowed an occassional sleep deprivation sunday, induced by the greatness of Djokovic.

bogbrush wrote:It's only gentle fun, hopefully that's clear enough, but just for the record it's tongue in cheek.

Its ok BB, I have come to love your grating personality, it is like the businessman who pays to have an SM dominatrix beat his aasss for large amounts of money.

Classiest post of the year?

Well done Novak. Topping the list of AO wins in the Open Era is nothing to be sniffed at, and neither is six slams in total. Very impressive and congratulations to him and the fans - he's in a great position to make a genuine assault on double figures over the next few years now.

HM Murdoch wrote:

socal1976 wrote: I would put Lendl more in the first tier of greatness myself on the fact that he dominated one of the strongest periods in tennis and was so consistent.

He's pretty darn close but I think 8 slams is too few for the top tier. I'm open to persuasion though!

I think you're both right. Eight slams is too few for the top tier - for starters, it puts him behind two current players - but also that Lendl deserves to be discussed as an ATG when you look at his overall stats and consistency. He's 'only' on eight slams, but some slam totals are more equal than others, if you like. Just an opinion though! I think Novak needs to hit double figures to enter the upper echelons, although the slam spread is very important. If he only wins two more slams, but they happen to be Roland Garros and Wimbledon, then I reckon he's there.

I think Novak's not quite ahead of Edberg yet, but I'm biased there. Anyway, well done to Mr. Djokovic! Enjoy your celebrations socal and HM

Silver wrote:Well done Novak. Topping the list of AO wins in the Open Era is nothing to be sniffed at, and neither is six slams in total. Very impressive and congratulations to him and the fans - he's in a great position to make a genuine assault on double figures over the next few years now.

HM Murdoch wrote:

socal1976 wrote: I would put Lendl more in the first tier of greatness myself on the fact that he dominated one of the strongest periods in tennis and was so consistent.

He's pretty darn close but I think 8 slams is too few for the top tier. I'm open to persuasion though!

I think you're both right. Eight slams is too few for the top tier - for starters, it puts him behind two current players - but also that Lendl deserves to be discussed as an ATG when you look at his overall stats and consistency. He's 'only' on eight slams, but some slam totals are more equal than others, if you like. Just an opinion though! I think Novak needs to hit double figures to enter the upper echelons, although the slam spread is very important. If he only wins two more slams, but they happen to be Roland Garros and Wimbledon, then I reckon he's there.

I think Novak's not quite ahead of Edberg yet, but I'm biased there. Anyway, well done to Mr. Djokovic! Enjoy your celebrations socal and HM

And the momentum becomes unstoppable

https://www.606v2.com/t39899-normalised-slam-record-service

this will be my only post for today, probably for the next few days as the usual WUMs/negativity takes over. Just wanted to pop in to say congrats to socal, Murdoch and slasher who are I think the three Djokovic fans of this forum. Didn't watch the match (was singing in a concert) but Djokovic clearly showed he is a worthy world n°1.

Thank you MFC, your well wishes are gratefully accepted. Wow I didn't know you were a rock singer.

Silver, as usual you come up with a good balanced post. I look at slam numbers as the prime measure but not the only the measure. Lendl had 19 gs finals, won about 90 tournaments, had a lengthy dominant run at #1, and most importantly he left his mark on the game. One can argue Lendl is the most influential player of the modern era as he is sort of the father of the power baseline game and the heavy forehands that came to dominate the sport.

I'd personally say Borg was the key player for ushering in "modern tennis". Still never seen as quick footwork as his...unbelievable cadence speed...and as good up and down as left to right. His groundies were the equal of Lendl, it was just that he used a wooden racquet. Lendl I would say ushered in diet and fitness focus...he was the model pro.

Lets not forget the depth of peak competition that was around mid-late 80s...Edberg, Becker, McEnroe, Wilander, Lendl...then Agassi and Sampras 89 onwards. A tough era to win slams in...would they have got more than 6 slams had there just been 2-3 rivals?

Nadal is still the favourite for the French Open.. 8 months out with no competition and is 2/1 in Betfair. Novak was 2.9/1.

I disagree Lydian, how can you be the founder of the modern game when you won every slam with a wood racquet. Lendl invented the big serve, big return, and dominating the tour almost exclusively from the back. Borg was an S and V guy at wimbeldon, even connors was a frequent and competent volleyer. Lendl was the first guy who dominated the game by hitting winners from the back and almost exclusively from the baseline. Lendl is what most modern players look like today. Where as borg, while a great defensive player really was not what the modern player looks like today. Although he to was a pioneer of bringing top spin to new levels as well as fitness and speed.

He failed at Wimbledon precisely because he couldn't volley.

Yes BB, that is my point Lendl is more influential than Borg, players today play more like Lendl than like Borg. Borg was actually a very good volleyer and a good server as well. He used the defensive stuff on clay and on his opponents service games on grass. The modern player on average is more like Lendl.

Exactly socal, Borg was the original prototypal modern all-court player as he came on the scene dominating from the back before Lendl. Have you seen Borg serve with a modern racquet...he was around 200k...Federer speed, every bit as fast as Lendl. He beat Lendl at FO of course from the back of the court. The modern players footwork is like Borg. But in any case I think it's too hard to pin a change on one player, you had some great players in the 80s...what about Becker from 85 who had huge groundstrokes or even Wilander who was the thorn in Lendl's side. But for me modern tennis started from around 79/80 when Mac and Borg started clashing swords. I also think Roscoe Tanner might have a word about modern huge serving...but I don't dispute Lendl is in the mix but given the modern player is all court, Lendl was anything but...couldn't volley to save his life!

Well, Lydian I don't dispute that Borg was a large influence on the game but I think Lendl really has proven to be the most enduring and archetypal of players in recent memory. For example he is also the first player to change racquets with every new set of balls. And he was the first guy of his size that really moved well, and made the 1-2 tennis of big serve followed by a big western forehand the dominant pattern of play for a generation. And of course borg could play in my mind even today and as you say he probably would have a lot more power and hit a lot more winners with the technology and training available today. On grass breaking borg with those old wood racquets was next to impossible. Although I only watch one or two of his matches on tape, a bit before my time.

bogbrush wrote:He failed at Wimbledon precisely because he couldn't volley.

I don't think so he would have survived a 2012 Rafa/Fed on the finals, but can't blame him, given the current mediocre field he is the best of it.

socal1976 wrote:... it is like the businessman who pays to have an SM dominatrix beat his aasss for large amounts of money.

Hopefully this is far from the truth vis-a-vis your new lady friend...