Scotland Fans' 2014 6N of hell Post-mortem

First topic message reminder :

EDIT March 18th post-Scotland's capitulation to Wales

So, it's the end of the six nations. I have to say the intention of this early prediction thread was to calm all suppositions that Scotland might be anywhere near a threat this year. I have maintained that things look better with Cotter coming in (and hopefully not having to resort to 5th/6th choice wings, though that couldn't have been predicted).

Someone pointed out that in this last game if Wales had received the red card the scoreline would not have been the same in reverse. In fact I would be very worried that we still would have lost. To me it feels like it was an excuse to put the heads down/give Johnson the farewell he deserves.

Personally, I am lost for words. Not really sure where to go from here.

Anyone?

***

EDIT March 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to France.

Come hither one and all and we shall drink our sorrows away...

***
EDIT February 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to England & Ireland

I was right all along.

***

I got this in early because I did not want to see anybody from any nation suggest for any minute that Scotland has a chance of doing anything other than :

a) Cleaning their dirties in a smeg [White Wash]
b) Making lots of soup this winter [wooden spoon]
c) Scraping a win against Italy , in the dying seconds after a urine poor performance , which still might result in "b)" anyway.

No they did not beat Ireland.  
No they did not beat England.
No they did not beat France.  
No they did not beat Wales.  

They might *look* like they are going to win to any outsiders no privy to the Scotland set up, but I guarantee you no sensible Scottish fan will be expecting anything but a, b & c this season.

Why?

• We have an interim coach (for over a year!!!)who is more worried about what he says on camera than apparently coaching a sensible game plan
  
• Our breakdown is awful
  
• We have the psychological hardness of my nan - you don't know my nan but that's not good
  
• Our best players are either never played in position, not allowed to play in the XXIII at all, or are just awful at the moment. Not making the injury excuse because frankly it doesn't apply with exception of 2 key players that might be back in time. Happens in every squad
  
• etc, etc (feel free to add to this list)
  

So look, when we are compiling our 6N predictions this year, can we just for once all agree on something?

1. AN Other
2. AN Other
3. AN Other
4. AN Other
5. Maybe Scotland
6. Probably Scotland

Anyone mentions "dark horses" and "Scotland" in the same sentence without a negation clause in there somewhere (and you KNOW what I mean) I am getting our the knuckle dusters    

Yeah meant Taylor

Nematode wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

Nematode wrote:Grant, Ford, Low, Gilchrist, Swinson, Beattie, Grant, Denton, Laidlaw, Weir, Lamont, Scott (If not fit, NDL), Dunbar, Maitland, Hogg > D!ckinson, MacArthur, Cross, Gray, Brown, Cusiter, Heathcote, Taylor / NDL

Ford , Gilchrist, Grant, NDL at b12!!, Heathcoat on the bench.    
I'm all for giving the opposition a chance but that's taking it to extremes.

Have you watched any rugby this season?

Edinburgh are playing a really good brand of rugby. Roddy Grant got a turnover which led directly to a try. Ford was carrying well and has been effective in the tackle area. Gilchrist is carrying really well and actually involves himself unlike R Gray atm. And NDL is a decent distributor. Maybe not 23, but should be in the squad.  

Nemo, you would put NDL who is a 13 at 12 and Dunbar who is a 12 to stay at 13 if Scott is injured. Scott is the key to getting the backs playing at the moment but if he's not there then Dunbar is the next best. Then at thirteen Taylor and the Messiah are both much better bets than NDL. Then Vernon. Then me.
You also have Heathcoat who can't get a game for his club on the bench ahead of Jackson and Duncan "I shook Asbo's hand" Weir. Is there perhaps just a slight MFL bias in your pontifications?
Gilchrist is coming on apace but he's not Big Richie who looked good scoring for Castres at the weekend nor is he young Jonnie who looks set to surpass his brother. Not to forget Big Jim who is much nastier than Gilchrist.

I have to agree with my learned friend the Rt Hon. James Philip. The pundits are inevitably distracted by flashy players who are easily marketable, the Hoggs, Maitlands and Lamonts of this world, but the real key to the animated back play that worries world-class opposition is Matt Scott.

We saw in the matches against the Springboks in the summer and autumn the difference that Scott's absence can make. He breaks tackles, offloads well, has a nice amount of pace, defends fairly solidly, and has a nice habit of running on the shoulder of the ball carrier. Simply, Scott is the only person that I'm happy to see displace Dunbar from his best position.

If, and here's the kick in the nuts... if Scott can't make the first match, Dunbar must move inside to make space for Taylor. Bennett will be wearing 13 (or at least be on the bench) by the end of the tournament (after a hat-trick each of tries, penalties, drop-goals, conversions and yellow cards against England), but in the meantime we can't seriously consider relying on a 13, in De Luca, who has consistently failed to live up to his hype on the international stage.

As someone pointed out so well, we have so long justified De Luca's inclusion for Scotland on his club form, but now he doesn't even have that. On Saturday, De Luca couldn't catch a ball if he was throwing it to himself in an empty car park. On a dry day.

He was woeful. Yet miraculously he'll be good enough to go toe-to-toe with the greatest player to ever wear the 13 shirt? I think not.

So, ideally it would be 12. Scott, 13. Dunbar
If the spit hits the pan, 12. Dunbar, 13. Taylor

jimbopip wrote:

Nematode wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

Nematode wrote:Grant, Ford, Low, Gilchrist, Swinson, Beattie, Grant, Denton, Laidlaw, Weir, Lamont, Scott (If not fit, NDL), Dunbar, Maitland, Hogg > D!ckinson, MacArthur, Cross, Gray, Brown, Cusiter, Heathcote, Taylor / NDL

Ford , Gilchrist, Grant, NDL at b12!!, Heathcoat on the bench.    
I'm all for giving the opposition a chance but that's taking it to extremes.

Have you watched any rugby this season?

Edinburgh are playing a really good brand of rugby. Roddy Grant got a turnover which led directly to a try. Ford was carrying well and has been effective in the tackle area. Gilchrist is carrying really well and actually involves himself unlike R Gray atm. And NDL is a decent distributor. Maybe not 23, but should be in the squad.  

Nemo, you would put NDL who is a 13 at 12 and Dunbar who is a 12 to stay at 13 if Scott is injured. Scott is the key to getting the backs playing at the moment but if he's not there then Dunbar is the next best. Then at thirteen Taylor and the Messiah are both much better bets than NDL. Then Vernon. Then me.
You also have Heathcoat who can't get a game for his club on the bench ahead of Jackson and Duncan "I shook Asbo's hand" Weir. Is there perhaps just a slight MFL bias in your pontifications?
Gilchrist is coming on apace but he's not Big Richie who looked good scoring for Castres at the weekend nor is he young Jonnie who looks set to surpass his brother. Not to forget Big Jim who is much nastier than Gilchrist.

I don't know if you're being serious or trolling but I'll take it as you are. being serious

1. If you saw in a Glasgow match OFF: Seymour ON: Prygos with Niko currently at 9, what would happen? ... (NDL replaces Scott and goes to 13 - kinda obv)
2. I picked Weir at 10...
3. Others here have commented that all he did was hit rucks. Also, do you consider running in 5m with no defenders enough to merit a "good" display?

       

Read in the Scotsman this morning that SJ is going to name a 34 man squad - suspect that'll mean another Backrow (harley?) and back (messiah?)

RDW_Scotland wrote:Right sounds like 32 man squads, so here's mine:

Props - grant, dickinson, cross, Lowe

Hookers - ford, MacArthur, Hall

Lock - gray, gray, Hamilton, swinson, gilchrist

Back row - brown, strokosh, Denton, Barclay, Beattie, grant

Scrum half - laidlaw, cusiter, pyrgos

Stand off - weir, Jackson

Centre - Scott, Dunbar, de Luca, Dunbar

Back 3 - Shlong, maitland, Hogg, Tonks, Seymour

Several things:
1. Am very nervous only going with 2 fly halves. I don't count Laidlaw or Tonks as one of them although both can deputise.
2. I would take Heathcote along for the experience.
3. I would take NDL along to hold the tackle bags.
4. Moray Low has to be the most misspelt name in the sport. Apart from maybe Ratu Tevita Kuridrani.
5. Are we definitely giving up on Rennie being fit? Very sad. Rennie v Grant opens a whole new class v form argument.

GC - I've made my opinions on tonks clear on here, he's 3rd choice 10. Would you seriously prefer heathcoat over tonks as 3rd choice even though he's barely played all season?

Apologies to the low family for misspelling their name

Ross Rennie is my favourite Scotland rugby player, but I just can't see how his inclusion could be justified other than providing one of the extra men to bring it up to 34. As I said earlier they may be giving him a very gradual return to action and the 6N is maybe classed as being too early.

Nematode wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

Nematode wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

Nematode wrote:Grant, Ford, Low, Gilchrist, Swinson, Beattie, Grant, Denton, Laidlaw, Weir, Lamont, Scott (If not fit, NDL), Dunbar, Maitland, Hogg > D!ckinson, MacArthur, Cross, Gray, Brown, Cusiter, Heathcote, Taylor / NDL

Ford , Gilchrist, Grant, NDL at b12!!, Heathcoat on the bench.    
I'm all for giving the opposition a chance but that's taking it to extremes.

Have you watched any rugby this season?

Edinburgh are playing a really good brand of rugby. Roddy Grant got a turnover which led directly to a try. Ford was carrying well and has been effective in the tackle area. Gilchrist is carrying really well and actually involves himself unlike R Gray atm. And NDL is a decent distributor. Maybe not 23, but should be in the squad.  

Nemo, you would put NDL who is a 13 at 12 and Dunbar who is a 12 to stay at 13 if Scott is injured. Scott is the key to getting the backs playing at the moment but if he's not there then Dunbar is the next best. Then at thirteen Taylor and the Messiah are both much better bets than NDL. Then Vernon. Then me.
You also have Heathcoat who can't get a game for his club on the bench ahead of Jackson and Duncan "I shook Asbo's hand" Weir. Is there perhaps just a slight MFL bias in your pontifications?
Gilchrist is coming on apace but he's not Big Richie who looked good scoring for Castres at the weekend nor is he young Jonnie who looks set to surpass his brother. Not to forget Big Jim who is much nastier than Gilchrist.

I don't know if you're being serious or trolling but I'll take it as you are. being serious

1. If you saw in a Glasgow match OFF: Seymour ON: Prygos with Niko currently at 9, what would happen? ... (NDL replaces Scott and goes to 13 - kinda obv)
2. I picked Weir at 10...
3. Others here have commented that all he did was hit rucks. Also, do you consider running in 5m with no defenders enough to merit a "good" display?

       

Are you kidding me? Hitting rucks is an absolutely essential part of a forward's game. If that's what he's been told to do by his club coach, then good on him for getting stuck in. Sheesh.

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Right sounds like 32 man squads, so here's mine:

Props - grant, dickinson, cross, Lowe

Hookers - ford, MacArthur, Hall

Lock - gray, gray, Hamilton, swinson, gilchrist

Back row - brown, strokosh, Denton, Barclay, Beattie, grant

Scrum half - laidlaw, cusiter, pyrgos

Stand off - weir, Jackson

Centre - Scott, Dunbar, de Luca, Dunbar

Back 3 - Shlong, maitland, Hogg, Tonks, Seymour

Several things:
1. Am very nervous only going with 2 fly halves. I don't count Laidlaw or Tonks as one of them although both can deputise.
2. I would take Heathcote along for the experience.
3. I would take NDL along to hold the tackle bags.
4. Moray Low has to be the most misspelt name in the sport. Apart from maybe Ratu Tevita Kuridrani.
5. Are we definitely giving up on Rennie being fit? Very sad. Rennie v Grant opens a whole new class v form argument.

Seriously? You'd trust him to do that??

Pretty much agree with RDW's 32 man squad. I'd take Welsh as an extra prop though, and probably omit Roddy Grant in his place. Doubt both Grant and Barclay will go, as I suspect Brown is seen as a 7 by SJ.

I'm in two minds about Pyrgos as well. Probably deserves to be third choice, but I really do believe both Kennedy and Hidalgo-Clyne have far greater potential and it's not like Pyrgos has been playing particularly well. He gets in most likely, but I'd be very tempted to go with one of the youngsters as third choice behind Laidlaw and Cusiter.

The Scotsman is saying that the squad will be 35 players. Nobodies mentioned him but I suspect Max Evans will still be in the squad.

News just in:

The Ireland vs Scotland game has been postponed. Scotland are unable to take to the field as their kit was dropped into the Irish sea while they were getting off the ferry. P&O Ferries have stated that this shambles was through no fault of their own. A spokesman said
"While we fully sympathise with the Scottish Rugby team, we cannot be held responsible for this event. As part of our commitment to customer service, our highly trained baggage team were fully competant in getting the Scottish bags off our ferry. Each pass of a Scottish bag was perfectly directed and weighted but the Scottish Rugby team insited on having their own bag man on the harbour to catch the bags. This was where issues occured"

That's what will happen if NDL is in charge of the team kit! Please don't sugegst it again!

MacKnocked-on wrote:The Scotsman is saying that the squad will be 35 players. Nobodies mentioned him but I suspect Max Evans will still be in the squad.

That's probably right. How can Ireland expect a healthy return of turnovers unless the Squashed Goblin is on hand to run down blind alleys??

With Scott still to start a game, and the squad being 35 (apparently) rather than 32, I expect Duncan Taylor will also be included.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:The Scotsman is saying that the squad will be 35 players. Nobodies mentioned him but I suspect Max Evans will still be in the squad.

That's probably right. How can Ireland expect a healthy return of turnovers unless the Squashed Goblin is on hand to run down blind alleys??

With Scott still to start a game, and the squad being 35 (apparently) rather than 32, I expect Duncan Taylor will also be included.

I didn't want to mention the Squashed G's name in the hope everyone (including SJ) would forget about him. Although I seem to vaguely remember the Scotsman mentioning he’s been ‘in form’ recently. I can only assume ‘Form’ is a place near where he lives, or they have generalised ‘form’ to both good and poor.

Does anyone know when the squad is going to be announced?

Also what do we reckon to the chances of Fife getting a call up? Been playing well and he’s up there with the top try scorers in the league currently.

Fife gets a call up, SRU just tweeted a picture with the names of all those involved. No sign of Roddy Grant or the  

Full squad

Scotland squad for training camp 19-22 January ahead of RBS 6 Nations Championship:

Forwards: John Beattie (Montpellier), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Geoff Cross, David Denton, Alasdair Dickinson, Ross Ford (all Edinburgh Rugby), Chris Fusaro (Glasgow Warriors), Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby), Ryan Grant, Jonny Gray (both Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Castres), Jim Hamilton (Montpellier), Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors), Scott Lawson (Newcastle Falcons), Kieran Low (London Irish), Moray Low, Pat MacArthur (both Glasgow Warriors), Ross Rennie (Edinburgh Rugby) Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Tim Swinson and Ryan Wilson (both Glasgow Warriors).

Backs: Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors), Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors), Max Evans (Castres), Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby), Stuart Hogg, Ruaridh Jackson, Sean Lamont (all Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby), Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors), Duncan Taylor (Saracens), Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) and Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors).

Not considered due to injury: Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) and Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby).

No Pyrgos either, only Cusiter and Laidlaw as scrumhalves.

Scotland squad for training camp 19-22 January ahead of RBS 6 Nations Championship:

Forwards: John Beattie (Montpellier), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Geoff Cross, David Denton, Alasdair Dickinson, Ross Ford (all Edinburgh Rugby), Chris Fusaro (Glasgow Warriors), Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby), Ryan Grant, Jonny Gray (both Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Castres), Jim Hamilton (Montpellier), Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors), Scott Lawson (Newcastle Falcons), Kieran Low (London Irish), Moray Low, Pat MacArthur (both Glasgow Warriors), Ross Rennie (Edinburgh Rugby) Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Tim Swinson and Ryan Wilson (both Glasgow Warriors).

Backs: Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors), Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors), Max Evans (Castres), Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby), Stuart Hogg, Ruaridh Jackson, Sean Lamont (all Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby), Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors), Duncan Taylor (Saracens), Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) and Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors).

Not considered due to injury: Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) and Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby).

Evans  

Good to see Rennie in there!

Interesting.

No:
- Messiah
- Euge

But there is:
- Kieren Low
- Ross Rennie

George Carlin wrote:Interesting.

No:
- Messiah
- Jonny Gray
- Euge

But there is:
- Kieren Low
- Ross Rennie

Jonny Gray is in the squad as far as I can see, quite a number of second rows selected. I wonder if any will drop down to the A squad to be announced next week or whether an entirely different set of players will be selected; Ryder, Atkins, Mckenzie?

MacKnocked-on wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Interesting.

No:
- Messiah
- Jonny Gray
- Euge

But there is:
- Kieren Low
- Ross Rennie

Jonny Gray is in the squad as far as I can see, quite a number of second rows selected. I wonder if any will drop down to the A squad to be announced next week or whether an entirely different set of players will be selected; Ryder, Atkins, Mckenzie?

You're right. God, I am tired today.

Being as Scotland were the only nation from these isles to cheer on Wales when they got to the 2011 RWC semi-final I wish then the best and hope they finish second after Wales  

Back three:  Max Evans (Castres), Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby), Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors), Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors), Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors), Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors),

Midfield: Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors),  Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Duncan Taylor (Saracens)

Halfbacks: Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors), Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby), Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors), Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Front row: Geoff Cross, Alasdair Dickinson, Ross Ford (all Edinburgh Rugby), Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors), Scott Lawson (Newcastle Falcons), Moray Low, Pat MacArthur (both Glasgow Warriors)

Locks: Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby), Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Castres), Jim Hamilton (Montpellier), Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors)

Backrow: John Beattie (Montpellier), Kelly Brown (Saracens), David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby), Chris Fusaro (Glasgow Warriors), Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors), Kieran Low (London Irish), Ross Rennie (Edinburgh Rugby) Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors)

So...

Front row - Geoff Cross, Alasdair Dickinson, Ryan Grant, Moray Low

Hooker - Ross Ford, Scott Lawson, Pat MacArthur

Second row - Grant Gilchrist, Jonny Gray, Richie Gray, Jim Hamilton, Tim Swinson

Back row - John Beattie, Kelly Brown, David Denton, Chris Fusaro, Robert Harley, Kieran Low, Ross Rennie, Alasdair Strokosch, Ryan Wilson

Scrum halves - Chris Cusiter, Greig Laidlaw

Fly halves - Ruaridh Jackson, Duncan Weir

Centres - Nick De Luca, Alex Dunbar, Max Evans, Matt Scott, Duncan Taylor

Back three - Dougie Fife, Stuart Hogg, Sean Lamont, Sean Maitland, Tommy Seymour, Greig Tonks

Just realised there's no Barclay.

No Heathcoat.
9 back row players but no John Barclay. what jinks we'll have arguing over three from those
5 centres, including NDL and M.Evans... no Vernon!!!
2 scrum halves is SJ thinking that he can call someone up from the A squad as cover?
Not sure what to think of the squad as a whole, but of the four listed as unavailable due to injury Big Al and the Rev probably won't make the WC squad. Horne should if he recovers from injury. McVisser should if he decides that tackling is no longer optional.

Surprises for me: no John Barclay, no Tom Heathcote, no Jon Welsh

Disappointments but inevitable: no Euan Murray, no (realistically neither have had enough game time since the AIs)

It seems Jon Welsh is as much disliked by Scotland as Murray Low is disliked by Glasgow! Odd!

It's a good squad. I'm delighted by the call-up for Dougie Fife. Remember that he's spent almost as much of his career at 13 than on the wing, and I think he'd be an excellent option at centre.

I'd probably switch Kieran Low for a scrum half, but generally speaking there are no "Andy Robinson" howlers.

In terms of breakdown (36):
Glasgow - 16
Edinburgh - 11
Exiles - 9

Good strong squad selected. A couple of surpirses for me is only having 4 props and 2 scrum halfs. More so because if one does go down injured how up to speed will a replacement be on calls, moves things like that.
Also don't see the need of all the back row players selected. It is just for the training camp next so maybe still wanting to find a bit more out about a few of the fringe back rowers like Low and Fusaro.
Not too surprised about Heathcote missing out, has barely played or been on the bench for Bath 1st xv this season. His contract runs out at the end of the season so needs to move on and find more game time. 10 is covered at the moment with Weir, Jackson and the in form Tonks!

funnyExiledScot wrote:It seems Jon Welsh is as much disliked by Scotland as Murray Low is disliked by Glasgow! Odd!

It's a good squad. I'm delighted by the call-up for Dougie Fife. Remember that he's spent almost as much of his career at 13 than on the wing, and I think he'd be an excellent option at centre.

I'd probably switch Kieran Low for a scrum half, but generally speaking there are no "Andy Robinson" howlers.

In terms of breakdown (36):
Glasgow - 16
Edinburgh - 11
Exiles - 9

Agreed about Jon Welsh, very good prop who can play 1 or 3 and seems strange not to have him in the training squad as he has been playing well.
On Dougie Fife I would keep him at wing. Where he has played the majority of his rugby and shown there for Currie and Scotland u20s and has really been performing well there for Edinburgh this season. He could be a decent 13 but think 11,14 are better suited. He has also played a few games at full back before and was decent there.

How can rob harley and ryan wilson be playing better than roddy grant? Can someone understand why cos it's eluding me!

Well Rob Harley is a blindside flanker and Ryan Wilson is a number 8, whilst Roddy Grant is an openside.

The real question is whether Ross Rennie and Chris Fusaro, both opensides, deserve to be there ahead of Roddy Grant.

On form I'd say "no", but I believe both players selected have the potential to be better players, and have shown more consistency than Grant (who has really only come into form in the last few games under the Solomons regime).

I get the impression that SJ doesn’t really know what to think with the 7 shirt. The fact that Barclay isn’t there also suggests Brown will be playing 7 in the 6N, unless they want to throw Rennie in there unprepared.

He publicly says during the AIs that Fusaro isn’t up to international standard yet, and although he’s not done much wrong since the AIs he’s hardly set the heather alight. Is this SJ now saying he’s suddenly ready for international rugby again? Very harsh on Grant who has been excellent for a number of games in a row now – as remarked in the Scotsman at the weekend he’s probably going to fall into the ‘best players never to play for Scotland’ category, which is a real shame.

Also, Barclay has been a regular starter for the Scarlet – why omit him and have hunners of 6/8s in the squad?

Ryan Wilson is a very lucky boy – he’s not long back from injury and again has been solid if unspectacular.

Must have been a close call between Grant and Fusaro and then to pick them both over Barclay. Hard to know what he has done wrong, but he seems to have become out of sight, out of mind down in Wales.

No Pygros either. he would no doubt be straight back in if there is an injury, but I suspect we will see Hart get some game time now for Edinburgh and he may soon jump Henry in the queue. It will be interesting to see who plays for the A's. I have never been that convinced that he s a rue international option anyway, so can live with that one.

Evans and de Luca remain in the last chance saloon, with injuries probably accounting for them staying in the squad. I don't think either of them will play unless others get injured and would hope to see Bennett come in down the line if he can discover fitness and form. I wonder how far away is Horne, he is running again now, hopefully he will be playing for Glasgow before the end of the season, 6 nations is probably to soon.

Majestic83 wrote:On Dougie Fife I would keep him at wing. Where he has played the majority of his rugby and shown there for Currie and Scotland u20s and has really been performing well there for Edinburgh this season. He could be a decent 13 but think 11,14 are better suited. He has also played a few games at full back before and was decent there.

I was thinking more that the 14 jersey is guarded by Mailtland and Seymour, both excellent players who I'd rank ahead of Fife presently. The 13 jersey is covered by NDL, Dunbar and Evans (who like Fife is used almost exclusively on the wing these days at club level). Were I Fife I'd fancy my chances of getting in ahead of that trio (two of whom also don't play 13 regularly for their clubs), rather than taking on Maitland and Seymour.

I suppose Fife could look at the left wing, although Lamont's performance against Exeter was impressive by all accounts so probably means he'll get the nod in the 6 Nations. Still, given Visser's preference for touch rugby and Lamont's pace being slower than the cogs in Alex Salmond's brain, a switch to left wing could pay dividends for Fife (although Tom Brown was pretty handy at 11 against Perpignan).

RDW (or anyone else who has played wing) - any views on how simple it is to switch from one wing to the other?

Harsh on Dougie Hall too.

So, we could see
1.Grant
2. McArthur
3.Low
4. Swinson
5.J Gray
6. Harley
7.Fusaro
8.Wilson
9. Cusiter
10. Jackson
11. Seymour
12. Dunbar
13. Lamont
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

or
1. Cross
2. Lawson
3. Dickinson
4. Gilchrist
5. Hamilton
6. Low
7. Strokes
8. Kellybrows
9. Laidlaw
10. Tonks
11. Evans
12 Scott
13. Taylor
14. Fife
15 Hogg
There are certain positions where I'm not sure we have enough quality cover. Certainly need John Welsh, Messiah and Vernon.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:On Dougie Fife I would keep him at wing. Where he has played the majority of his rugby and shown there for Currie and Scotland u20s and has really been performing well there for Edinburgh this season. He could be a decent 13 but think 11,14 are better suited. He has also played a few games at full back before and was decent there.

I was thinking more that the 14 jersey is guarded by Mailtland and Seymour, both excellent players who I'd rank ahead of Fife presently. The 13 jersey is covered by NDL, Dunbar and Evans (who like Fife is used almost exclusively on the wing these days at club level). Were I Fife I'd fancy my chances of getting in ahead of that trio (two of whom also don't play 13 regularly for their clubs), rather than taking on Maitland and Seymour.

I suppose Fife could look at the left wing, although Lamont's performance against Exeter was impressive by all accounts so probably means he'll get the nod in the 6 Nations. Still, given Visser's preference for touch rugby and Lamont's pace being slower than the cogs in Alex Salmond's brain, a switch to left wing could pay dividends for Fife (although Tom Brown was pretty handy at 11 against Perpignan).

RDW (or anyone else who has played wing) - any views on how simple it is to switch from one wing to the other?

Just can't stop personalising it, oh dear   

[quote="funnyExiledScot"]

Majestic83 wrote:

RDW (or anyone else who has played wing) - any views on how simple it is to switch from one wing to the other?

It's not as different as say switching from 12 to 13, but there is definitely a difference. Put Visser on the right wing for example and I bet he is less effective.

Angles of running, support lines, defensive positioning etc are all the opposite way round.

Looks like Low is going to get a run of games at TH now, which might be just what his confidence needs. This is his chance to really put down a marker and emerge from Euan Murray's shadow.

We are only one injury away from being in trouble in that position though and that is not good. maybe Welsh might get a run of games for Glasgow now as well, which may be just what he needs as well.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I get the impression that SJ doesn’t really know what to think with the 7 shirt.  The fact that Barclay isn’t there also suggests Brown will be playing 7 in the 6N, unless they want to throw Rennie in there unprepared.

He publicly says during the AIs that Fusaro isn’t up to international standard yet, and although he’s not done much wrong since the AIs he’s hardly set the heather alight. Is this SJ now saying he’s suddenly ready for international rugby again? Very harsh on Grant who has been excellent for a number of games in a row now – as remarked in the Scotsman at the weekend he’s probably going to fall into the ‘best players never to play for Scotland’ category, which is a real shame.

Also, Barclay has been a regular starter for the Scarlet – why omit him and have hunners of 6/8s in the squad?

Ryan Wilson is a very lucky boy – he’s not long back from injury and again has been solid if unspectacular.

Well said RDW, possibly your most sensible post in a while.
My own thoughts on Roddy Grant are that for a few years he looked a real prospect but was unlucky enough to have rented a room and kitchen in John Barclay's back pocket. Then along came Ross Rennie. Then Kellybrows started playing 7 for Scotland. Soon it'll be Josh Strauss, if not Fusaro. Grant is having a renaissance at the moment but I'm not convinced he is better suited to international rugby than any of the aforementioned.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:On Dougie Fife I would keep him at wing. Where he has played the majority of his rugby and shown there for Currie and Scotland u20s and has really been performing well there for Edinburgh this season. He could be a decent 13 but think 11,14 are better suited. He has also played a few games at full back before and was decent there.

I was thinking more that the 14 jersey is guarded by Mailtland and Seymour, both excellent players who I'd rank ahead of Fife presently. The 13 jersey is covered by NDL, Dunbar and Evans (who like Fife is used almost exclusively on the wing these days at club level). Were I Fife I'd fancy my chances of getting in ahead of that trio (two of whom also don't play 13 regularly for their clubs), rather than taking on Maitland and Seymour.

I suppose Fife could look at the left wing, although Lamont's performance against Exeter was impressive by all accounts so probably means he'll get the nod in the 6 Nations. Still, given Visser's preference for touch rugby and Lamont's pace being slower than the cogs in Alex Salmond's brain, a switch to left wing could pay dividends for Fife (although Tom Brown was pretty handy at 11 against Perpignan).

RDW (or anyone else who has played wing) - any views on how simple it is to switch from one wing to the other?

Yeah looking at the bigger picture there are probably more quality wingers than 13s at the moment. I think in the long term though Fife will be better than Seymour but yes Fife would probably do a better job than Evans and probably De Luca at 13 so I can see your point there. Looking at the 13 jersey I still think Alex Grove deserves a shot at it. I think him and Scott or even him and Dunbar would be a great combo.

In regards to how easy is it to switch between 11 and 14 I played on the wing a bit when I was younger. Normally played on the left wing due to being left footed so when attacking was easier to put a kick ahead. SOme players find it easy to swap between wings but can depend on what foot they kick with, if they can step of both feet or what is their favoured one and also defence plays a part in selection of 11,14 as 14 tends to be the stronger defender.

jimbopip wrote:
Well said RDW, possibly your most sensible post in a while.

Trying to work out whether that's a compliment!   

RDW_Scotland wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW (or anyone else who has played wing) - any views on how simple it is to switch from one wing to the other?

It's not as different as say switching from 12 to 13, but there is definitely a difference.  Put Visser on the right wing for example and I bet he is less effective.

Angles of running, support lines, defensive positioning etc are all the opposite way round.

I know I'm not a fancy engineer - but I had figured that much out!!

Seriously though, I did think there would be a difference. I suppose there must be a mental aspect regarding familiarity - I assume for example Visser would be less confident moving to the right wing just because it would feel different, and perhaps play differently as a result.

Most players are also more comfortable passing to the left (i.e. off their right hand) than to the right (or at least that seems to be the case in Scotland - somehow the All Blacks just seem to be able to pass regardless), so I suppose in theory you ought to receive better service standing out on the left.

Back row is anybody's guess. Ironically I think that the only position that's nailed down is Kelly at 7. The rest depends on how everyone trains although I think after this year's internationals we know that SJ likes 6. Strokosch and 8. Denton. I feel sorry for the Gingery Fun Sized Midget but it was too little too late for him, I would think.

However, Beattie has appeared at blindside under SJ's experimentation regime before and having Wilson as another option at 8 (filling the gangling void left by Richie 'I Am The New BOD' Vernon) means we could see any of:

6. Harley/Strokosch/Beattie/Denton
7. Brown/Rennie/Fozzy
8. Denton/Wilson/Beattie

I bet all of the colourful local currency in my pocket that there will be no selection consistency in the backrow from one game to the other. Sadly.

Lawson has shown a lot this season in a struggling Falcons team and merits his inclusion. The selection of Pat instead of Dougie is a nod to the future really as Hall must be about ready to play for Toulon now (over 45).

Very good to see Fife there. When I've seen him for the U20s, he's shone as a wing but I would prioritise a centre slot. He has to figure that he doesn't have too much ground to make up on Taylor and the absence of Bennett is a big chance for him.

funnyExiledScot wrote:, so I suppose in theory you ought to receive better service standing out on the left.

Absolutely - it might not happen so much at pro level, but at amateur level if you play on the left wing you will see a lot of ball, becuase all your team mates can throw fancy spinning passes along the line. If you play on the right wing you will end up doing a lot of tackling, as the opposition can throw fancy passes along the line to their left winger!

If Fife is going to get capped then it would be unfair to play him on the left wing.

jimbopip wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I get the impression that SJ doesn’t really know what to think with the 7 shirt.  The fact that Barclay isn’t there also suggests Brown will be playing 7 in the 6N, unless they want to throw Rennie in there unprepared.

He publicly says during the AIs that Fusaro isn’t up to international standard yet, and although he’s not done much wrong since the AIs he’s hardly set the heather alight. Is this SJ now saying he’s suddenly ready for international rugby again? Very harsh on Grant who has been excellent for a number of games in a row now – as remarked in the Scotsman at the weekend he’s probably going to fall into the ‘best players never to play for Scotland’ category, which is a real shame.

Also, Barclay has been a regular starter for the Scarlet – why omit him and have hunners of 6/8s in the squad?

Ryan Wilson is a very lucky boy – he’s not long back from injury and again has been solid if unspectacular.

Well said RDW, possibly your most sensible post in a while.
My own thoughts on Roddy Grant are that for a few years he looked a real prospect but was unlucky enough to have rented a room and kitchen in John Barclay's back pocket. Then along came Ross Rennie. Then Kellybrows started playing 7 for Scotland. Soon it'll be Josh Strauss, if not Fusaro. Grant is having a renaissance at the moment but I'm not convinced he is better suited to international rugby than any of the aforementioned.

It would be hard to call Ross Rennie the incumbent as he has played so little over the past few years, but It would be fair to say that he is just about everyone's first choice pick on the rare occasions that he is fit and ready to go. If we are ever going to have a balanced back row with a genuine open side on board then he should play. I can't believe that he would be in the squad if he is not fit. I know he had a bereavement recently, so maybe that is why he has not had so much game time. I hope he plays this weekend, which I know would be very very hard on Roddy Grant, but professional sport can unfortunately be that cruel.

Picking Fusaro is the odd one, having been told recently that he was not up to it. He looked out of sorts not that long ago, remember him being hooked in the first half!

He looked better in the derby game when he came on and made a real impact and we are told played really well against Exeter last week. Anyone care to confirm or deny that. Those two games seem to have got him into the squad. In the meantime Grant has been in the form of his life in front of the TV cameras as well. This is probably the real controversial call of the whole squad and I hope he grabs his chance with both hands.

why do I have it in my head that Roddy Grant has played for Scotland?

Decent squad overall I guess.

Still cannot fathom how Max Evans keeps getting picked, but there’s no point worry about that, it’s like being upset the sun goes down at the end of the day.  It’s inevitable that Evans will be in the side regardless.

The only other issue for me is how Roddy Grant missed out, but I don’t think I am alone on that one.  Hope Rennie is fit and actually plays.

tigertattie wrote:why do I have it in my head that Roddy Grant has played for Scotland?

Probably in a 7's jersey, or Scotland A.

There's an interview with SJ on ScottishRugby's YouTube channel - seems like if Rennie's fit then he could get a game...

I would have chosen Barclay before Fusaro personally, it's not as if Barclay is over the hill, he's only three years older than Fusaro so has got plenty playing life left in him beyond the World Cup. Think it's now ten years since Barclay was first selected for the Scotland squad whilst still a school boy.
Fusaro also seems to be at risk of losing his Glasgow place to Holmes who will probably make the A squad.