Rugby is becoming 'a sport for freaks'........thoughts?

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/story/207195.html

It’s a thought that has wizzled round my pretty head a lot recently. Players are getting bigger and bigger.

Ten years ago Wilkinson was smashing it up, but earlier this year he was smashed by a 23 stone Tongan - its one to check out on youtube.

I do fear we are moving towards that 'Teddy Roosevelt' moment when the NFL as was, was forced to change and decided to introduce body armour (not something I would support in rugby).

Did you see the Saracens vs. Toulouse game at Wembley last month, it was the closest thing too NFL I've seen on a rugby pitch. Honestly the French made the Vunipola's look small.

After that game I did think about a 'Guess the weight of Gillian Galan' post - I just don't buy the 120kgs he quotes on the interweb.

I guess this is just another thread in the melting pot of rugby evolution that will play out in the coming years. Club versus country, player welfare, global season, reduction to 25 games per season, etc. and more...

I still think theres room for all shapes and sizes if you are good enough look at Tipuric for instance he's no monster but I agree those players are getting fewer each year.

At the highest level players and coaches are looking for more and more power. Who but the romantics amongst us wouldn't want their backline to be filled with Jonah lomu lookalikes? Power, speed and skills of gargantuan proportion.

The laws may have to be changed to minimise injury sometime in the future.

Rugby players will never wear pads like NFL and i don't tiink the laws will be changed to the extent that would protect players from being tackled hard. No one who plays would want that. Only the bean counters would try and introduce it.

There is implied consent from participants in what is a contact sport, the laws of tackling are already clear regarding dangerous tackling, responsibility of tackler etc and i have seen great strides in the standard of tackling.

Players have been getting maimed playing rugby since it started, an inconvenient truth everyone who has laced up a pair of boots knows and ignores because they want to play the greatest game in the world.

Can't see how you are going to change it though.

Apart from padding up there isn't much more you can do, it is a contact sport.

Biltong wrote:Can't see how you are going to change it though.

Apart from padding up there isn't much more you can do, it is a contact sport.

I imagine the entry into and clearing out of the ruck will be the next area of focus - few players really 'bind onto', they more often try to 'smash' the players away to clear the ball.

I class myself as a rugby romantic however I am a big advocate of the 'all sizes' concept of 'piano players / piano shifters' approach to selection - and therefore appreciate the ball in motion highly skilled game that the more enlightened attempt to play. Keep the ball off the floor away from contact and run the fatty's off their feet!

I think too many people focus on the big players and forget the medium sized guys.

In NZ - D Coles, L Messam, A Smith, B Smith, C Smith, C Jane, Cruden are not particulary big for their position but they all do okay

Shane Williams, Dwayne Peel, George North.

The heavier a player is the harder it is for him to move around. You could have a team of 20+ stone players and they would be useless because they'd be too slow and not mobile enough.

I read one recent suggestion that all tackles should only be legal below the ribcage. As well as getting rid of a lot of dangerous play, the idea is it would also mean big players would have to get down lower to tackle small guys.

Can't see that happening, and I'm not sure it would make the game better.

I do think an emphasis on having guys bind onto the player they are clearing out of the ruck in the law will help a lot.

it's a bit old fashioned, but size differentials should lead to more tackling around the legs. no matter how big the monster, if you take his legs from the side he's going down.

a good quick light player with a great step would get my vote over a slower bulldozer in the flyhalf, centres or wing position anyday. Barrett's impact for NZ when he came on against Ireland would be a case in point. Magical, and he doesnt look like a big guy. obviously a good, quick big player with a great sidestep would be even better.

Savea is going to break all the records...

A couple of things about this. The first being I think a lot more needs to be done around drugs testing. My bug bear for most sports but in a contact 1 such as rugby I don't think enough is done to ensure safety. I know we've had a lot of non performance enhancing but call me a cynic, I think this could be a problem.

The 2nd is 1 way to cut this right back is to stop as many subs. If you had to put up with a player dead on his feet in the last 20 because of his size clubs would start to look at the situation closely.

That's a good point about the number of subs allowed 7.5. I recall a similar issue in the Oz NRL where they're cutting back on the number of interchanges to increase fatigue and hopefully reduce the ferocity of collisions. Guess it's slightly different in rugby with specialist positions though.

No 7&1/2 wrote:A couple of things about this. The first being I think a lot more needs to be done around drugs testing. My bug bear for most sports but in a contact 1 such as rugby I don't think enough is done to ensure safety. I know we've had a lot of non performance enhancing but call me a cynic, I think this could be a problem.

The 2nd is 1 way to cut this right back is to stop as many subs. If you had to put up with a player dead on his feet in the last 20 because of his size clubs would start to look at the situation closely.

I like that a lot.

profitius wrote:The heavier a player is the harder it is for him to move around. You could have a team of 20+ stone players and they would be useless because they'd be too slow and not mobile enough.

Jonah Lomu anyone? Yeah he was slow as a tortoise.

Isn't the phrase a good 'un always beats a good little 'un?

You have players who aren't just big but are very fast.

Who wouldn't want a monster backline of the likes of Folau, North,Savea, Tuilagi and Nonu at 15, on the wings, at 13 and 12?

Trying to imagine a fly half like Burns or Ford having to tackle those guys......

Or Farrell trying to skip past them? Farrell vs Burns is becoming as bad as England vs Wales!

no 7 &1/2 depends if you think it's a 10s number one job to try and run at the defence or perhaps try and get the rest of the backs involved. I think the latter is better.

Oh and I should add it's you who is bringing up Farrell vs Burns.

Sorry beshocked. I may have read it wrong but a lot of the stuff I've read recently in regards to Englands 10 has been cheap shots from Sarries fans on defensive frailties or cheap shots at Farrell for being devoid of any attacking instincts. It gets to me!

Beshocked, I'm starting to think you are Owen Farrell. Any mention of him that's even slightly critical and you bristle.

No 7 &1/2 I could have mentioned I would be worried if it was Cipriani or Hodgson trying to tackle those guys too. I only mentioned Burns and Ford because they are next in line and not particularly big blokes. Plus I would worry they would get injured.

It's from experience of seeing a fly half like Charlie Hodgson who is gifted with ball in hand but I worry about him getting injured if teams repeatedly target him - seen it happen. Remember Hodgson vs Nonu.

Luckless pedestrian sure because Farrell would spend his time going onto forums regularly......


Anyway back on topic as fans we love big huge players. They are entertaining - the likes of the Vunipola bros,Picamoles,Galan,North are great value and do make a big impact.

An exceptional little 'un can beat an good big 'un. Banahan and Vainikolo might be big players but never really stamped their mark at international level in rugby union. Famously ickle Shane outperformed Banahan.

Perhaps Christian Wade could be the next good little 'un for England.

The trend is definitely still bigger is better though.

England fans generally like to look at making the England packer bigger if possible hence wanting Garvey and Attwood.

Just taking out Tom Youngs and Geoff Parling and replacing them with Dylan Hartley and Courtney Lawes makes the England pack bigger even if it's not as big as a monster pack like the Boks.

Look at England's emphasis on a monster no 8 - either Morgan or Billy.

Ah fair enough. Remember it was Wilkinson's bravery which seemed to cause a lot of his problems as well though.

Exactly. Wilkinson was heroic in his tackles but not big. Making all those tackles took toil on his body.

It's a bit like if you were an Irish fan you would worry more about O Gara than Sexton defensively. Sexton is just a bigger bloke - 6,2 14 and half stone compared to O Gara at 6,0 and 13st 1.


On the other hand Aaron Cruden is small. He's done well for a little 'un but I think you'll see teams targetting him in the future as he takes the mantle permanently off Carter.

Yeah the subs suggestion is very good. You see it with French clubs espeically. They now have 8 heavyweights. Not only is it allowing teams have big players on the bench but they're also selecting big, unfit players in the starting side knowing they can replace them after 50 or 60 min.


So the increased substitutions have resulted in an increase sized player.

Gio Aplon
Peter Stringer
Shane Williams
Aaron Cruden

There are some quite small players that have made it to the top. I guess in their own way they are freaks too for being sooo good yet quite small.

Re: Lomu. Great top speed and lethal hand off. Not always the fastest at turning. Same is often said of all big wingers (like the Banahans and Norths). They dont change direction easily but then again they dont often have to.

Substitutes - ideally reducing them is a great idea but in practice hard. Maybe keep the - what - 8 man bench now but only let a team use 5? or less? Might make a case for blood replacements and props but it could be 'manipulated'.

Technique and fitness more than size. Yeah, it's what I want for Christmas.

Here's the thing Wales 2nds v Tonga. We we're supposed to be trampled by PI. giants but pleasantly surprised to see them bouncing off our lads needing the on field attention. Apologies if this has already been noted no time to read all the posts