6N Predictions

Now that the AIs have concluded (Wales V Aus excepted) do you see the 6Ns 2014 finishing any different to 2013?

For me the immediate answer is NO.

Wales still have the strongest team, but if they lose to Aus then their confidence may take a hit. But they can match any side up front and have more skill and nouse in the backs than the others. Much depends on player fitness, for all sides, but if Jamie Roberts and Jon Davies are fit then Wales will be in a good place. Maybe no grand slam as Ireland and England are both away but still overall winners for me.

England may have found a world class pack and a hard edge up front, but they are no where near finding any attacking backs who can score tries. Plenty to prove and much depends on whether Manu returns and if and how Yarde and Wade might go? France away first up is crucial. Ireland and Wales at home is nice but both those teams have a good recent record there.

Ireland showed some fire yesterday, but I hope they do not follow the same pattern as England last year. One good performance against the All Blacks does not mean that similar performances will follow. POC is essential and needs to stay fit and they could be in the mix, but expect 2nd or 3rd.

France for me will continue to underachieve as long as PSA remains in charge. With their talent pool their recent record should be so much better and I think they will be mid table again.

Scotland - no change really. Decent pack and useless backs. Similar to England in that regard but just at a lower level overall. They can turn sides over at home on a nasty day and may do that to England this year, but their inability to score tries is such that they will battle for the wooden spoon again.

Italy - similar to Scotland with a decent pack and not much in the backs. Wooden spoon favourites.

Overall I see no change to the 6N table from last year. Do you agree or disagree?

Difficult to predict as AI form rarely predict Six Nation form, but I think tactics are going to be the most important aspect of the Six Nations.

It will depend on how teams choose to play, Talent wise you would say wales and England, but like Ireland showed yesterday, talent alone is not all that is important, passion, belief and attitude changes the dynamics of each and every game.

I think if England can beat France first up they could get the GS. Wales will find it tough both vs England and Ireland.

England are too good a side in my opinion to lose 3 in a row to Wales. Millennium Stadium is not Twickenham. England with two wins on the bounce vs Ireland will fancy their chances to add another one.

France are the wild card as always.

Wales have had a lot of injuries in the same position at the same time causing both disruption and experience for younger players.

We have capped four promising young lads under 21 this Autumn and we still have the "big one" vs the Ozzies this weekend.

Wales lack depth of talent at eight and nine and should those positions come under threat from injury we could see Wales massively weakened.

I disagree that a loss to the Australians will weaken the team, it hasn't previously, we have won a GS and a Six nations on the back of losses to the wallabies. A win will obviously be beneficial to confidence though.

Injury is key for me, we have been tested far more than any other team this autumn. We are using fourth and fifth choice tightheads, centres, wings and we have two top class locks unavailable this weekend.

Impossible to predict this year. Wales are the side most capable of a consistent standard of performance at the moment, and providing they don't get hit byany more injuries, would be my choice to win the thing again.

England, France and Ireland are all perfectly capable of beating Wales or losing to Italy, it seems to me; France are basically badly selected, but they weren't on tour to Australia during the summer and I wonder if that might prove to be important as winter turns to spring next year. I still worry a bit about Ireland's front 5. Heroic as they were yesterday, they're going to be facing one scrum after another that will be, on paper at least, probably better than theirs. If they can sort that out, then Ireland are my idea of Wales' closest challengers. England, minus Tuilagi, as looks likely, are going to find scoring tries from open play difficult; not sure that ten-man rugby will be sufficient to win a title, although it's not out of the question.

Scotland should be doing better with the players that they have and it seems to me that what they really need is a proper win against a highly rated side (beating Ireland, last year was something of a fluke, however you look at it) to instil some real confidence. Again, where are the tries coming from? An awful lot depends on getting Scott and Hogg fit.

In short, Wales to win, but drop a game somewhere, with Ireland, France and England perhaps dropping a couple each and needing points difference to separate them.

A number of the teams are very unpredictable at the minute. Based on, say, Ireland's performance against Australia or Wales against Tonga then you would write off their chances. Consider Ireland against NZ or Scotland v SA and you would have another view.

You also have to try and work out against which teams they each raise their game. Wales performance against England this year was way better than they managed against anyone else. Ireland and England seemed to raise their game against NZ compared with their other performances. Scotland at home to England will always be their biggest game, especially with a vote on independence not too far away.

And France raise their game one week and are rubbish the next, regardless of who the opponents are. They could win the grand slam or finish bottom but we won't have any more idea of which one until the first game is well underway.

Looking forward to it all after the AIs and think there could be some classic encounters, though think it will still lack something when compared to games involving the southern hemisphere teams, especially SA and NZ.

If Wales lose to Aus, it'll be the same old. Go on and win the 6n's! Recent history shows a GS with games away to Eng and Ire following 2 defeats to Aus in '11 then, a 6n's title following defeat to Aus in '12.

I'd be worried for Wales if we beat Aus next week.... who knows what kind of mental reaction that would cause!

Should be a cracking championship though and I wouldn't write the Scots off

captain carrantouhil England have not yet lost to Italy. The only team in the 6 nations not to.

Jelly are teams really that unpredictable?

I would say England and Wales are still the best like last season. Ireland and France should be fighting for 3rd/4th and Scotland/Italy - wooden spoon.

England in the last 2 seasons of the 6 nations have only lost to Wales. Wales have just lost to Ireland.

RDS Guru are Scotland the dark horses yet again?

beshocked wrote:captain carrantouhil England have not yet lost to Italy. The only team in the 6 nations not to.

Jelly are teams really that unpredictable?

I would say England and Wales are still the best like last season. Ireland and France should be fighting for 3rd/4th and Scotland/Italy - wooden spoon.

England in the last 2 seasons of the 6 nations have only lost to Wales. Wales have just lost to Ireland.

RDS Guru are Scotland the dark horses yet again?

In terms of the OP as wooden spoon contenders

AI's won't make much difference. Wales will need their first XV to stay fit because our depth is poor and a second string Welsh team won't win the 6N's. England have more depth but have to win away twice before their 1st home game. France and Ireland benefit from 2 home games up front and momentum counts for a lot in the 6N's.

I predict a tight 6N's with no GS in 2014. Wales will find it hard to win in Dublin and Twickenham, particularly if a few key players are out. If France can win their 3rd game in Cardiff I think the title is theirs so I'm saying France will go from wooden spoon to Champions. I think Scotland will edge out the Italians to avoid the wooden spoon.

This is why I love the 6N. Let's be honest any team can beat an other given the circumstances. I think for Wales having 3 home games should see us finish no lower than 3rd/4th. Ireland, England and France who knows. I think the winner will be out of that 4 IMO. It's just too hard to call.

I know that beshocked, but at Twickenham this year, they all but did lose to Italy. It was a game that opened the door for Wales to do their stuff on the final weekend and was, at the very least, a moral victory for the Italians. Am sure that England won't be relishing the trip to Rome any more than the prospect of Edinburgh hospitality.

hugehandoff wrote:Now that the AIs have concluded (Wales V Aus excepted) do you see the 6Ns 2014 finishing any different to 2013?

For me the immediate answer is NO.

France for me will continue to underachieve as long as PSA remains in charge. With their talent pool their recent record should be so much better and I think they will be mid table again.

Overall I see no change to the 6N table from last year. Do you agree or disagree?

France was last so mid table would actually be a significant improvement

key game is the 1st game, if France somehow manages to beat their 6N archenemy England then they would get enough momentum for setting up a GS decider in Cardiff...if not, well mid table it is (if not worst). I really hope PSA gets 2 weeks preparation like the other team do this time around to see where we stand.

captain carrantouhil England have not yet lost to Italy. The only team in the 6 nations not to.

It's only a matter of time though. The last couple of meetings have been close. Again this is what makes the 6N so much fun! I can't wait for it.

captain carrantouhil unfortunately moral victories count for very little. They don't go into the record books and they don't give you silverware. Italy have got very close to beating England on a few occasions true but haven't done it yet.

No idea. Picked France last year and they had a better AIs than this so far, then came last...weird. thought France would year walker.

I can't call it. So I'm going to say France.

beshocked wrote:captain carrantouhil unfortunately moral victories count for very little. They don't go into the record books and they don't give you silverware. Italy have got very close to beating England on a few occasions true but haven't done it yet.

They seem to get closer every year and that is the part of a morale victory that counts, the task seems to be more and more reachable and less aspirational.

Italy at home are now confident of beating any team in the Six Nations.

I don't think Italy will beat England this year at least. Think England have a good chance of the GS but Wales at home will be the biggest stumbling block. Need to prove last year was a 1 off and that Wales aren't by far and away the best. Lose that and we carry a big monkey on to the world cup.

We have 3 games at home so thats always a bonus and last year proved AI form no guide. IF we can get the likes of Roberts, A Jones and JD plus all others fit and available then I have no doubt we will challenge but I will never say we are going to win it.

Even despite our good recent form England away is never easy and I still have bad memories from trips to Twickers.

Agreed Bedford, it's still only two wins there since '88, isn't it?

Scots and the Italians in the bottom 2. The rest to duke it out for the reamining places..

maestegmafia I doubt the Irish or English rugby league team felt they won morale victories on the weekend....

There's a fair bit going on this year. Wales lost to Ireland last year, and will be keen to put that right, while England feel the same about the Welsh. The Irish also have a couple of gripes with Wales, so that looks like being one of the tournament highlights.

The French seem all over the shop at the moment. The talent is there but not the organization or self-belief. They are reminiscent of England under Andy Robinson. That's perhaps not so surprising. Andy Robinson operated with no agreement on player access and French coaches are in the same position today. It's never a scalp you can take for granted. Mind you, their home advantage has been pretty weak in recent years, what with the terrible pitch and fickle crowd.

If Scotland get their first choice back line on the field, then they won't just be making up the numbers. If they also get Ross Rennie back to fitness and top form (and are willing to play him) then they could cause real trouble.

I'm ashamed to say I never really know enough about Italy. They haven't beaten England yet but they have run us close, so I always look at that fixture as a potential banana skin.

On paper, no team will go out expecting to lose any of their matches. Injuries will probably play a major role as the weeks go on. England are in the odd position where some fans seem to welcome injuries as a chance to see what else we've got in the cupboard.

beshocked wrote:maestegmafia I doubt the Irish or English rugby league team felt they won morale victories on the weekend....

I didn't see the Rugby League so I will take your word for that.

But my point stands that the closer a team like Italy get to beating a team they have not previously beaten, the more morale grows. Italian players have been on better form this year than last, their teams in the RP12 and HEC have improved in the quality of their performances and no teams take either Treviso or Zebre for granted, likewise their national side.

It's 'moral victory,' not 'morale victory.'

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It's 'moral victory,' not 'morale victory.'

Although a victory for one's morale is probably easier to come by on the rugby field !

6N is going to be great this year. Games to watch for me will be

Eng v Wal (few scores for Eng to settle, wales always up for this one)

Ire v Wal (few scores to settle there)

Eng v Ire (could be a real forward slugfest)

Fra v everyone (love the emotional rollercoast of watch france play)

as for results, have to say its very tough to call. i could actually see any of Wal, Eng, Fra, Ire winning the 6N, but i think it extremely unlikely anyone is going to get a grand slam.

all the teams have shown they are very capable of raising their games, so i expect 4 wins to be enough to clinch it. thought the overall standard of matches last year was poor. after these AIs i think it will be better this year.

my prediction
1. France (4 wins)
2. England (3 wins)
3. Ireland (3 wins)
4. Wales (3 wins)
5. Scotland (1 win)
5. Italy (1 win)

2,3,4 decided on points difference

i think its between England and Wales again. I was delighted last year when England were not starting with Courtney Lawes and Dylan Hartley as to my mind Lawes is their most formidable forward and Hartley is not far behind. Now the English management seem to have worked that out and England will be stronger starting with them. In the backs Brown is constantly improving and was brilliant at full back this Autumn while Twelvetrees is looking like a long term centre answer..... although if he doesn't improve his tackling Jamie Roberts will be running at him rather than the 10 channel.

For Wales I think this autumn has been good in showing that we have more strength in depth than perhaps we thought. As a Blues fan I had hoped Allen and Owen Williams would show good progress this season but hadn't expected them to get into internal rugby quite so quickly or to show up quite so well. While Rhodri Jones looks like a potential long term replacement for Adam in the scrum and maybe also to fill the 4th back row position that Gethin has been doing for years.

With the return of Cuthbert ... is there another player in the 6 nations whose international try strike rate compares to Cuthbert... Jamie, and JD2 then I think the Welsh backs will be to strong for England and should finish as champions

Of course thats if we don't loose to Italy in the openning match which we are perfectly capable of doing.

quinsforever wrote:6N is going to be great this year. Games to watch for me will be

Eng v Wal (few scores for Eng to settle, wales always up for this one)

Ire v Wal (few scores to settle there)

Eng v Ire (could be a real forward slugfest)

Fra v everyone (love the emotional rollercoast of watch france play)

as for results, have to say its very tough to call. i could actually see any of Wal, Eng, Fra, Ire winning the 6N, but i think it extremely unlikely anyone is going to get a grand slam.

all the teams have shown they are very capable of raising their games, so i expect 4 wins to be enough to clinch it. thought the overall standard of matches last year was poor. after these AIs i think it will be better this year.

my prediction
1. France (4 wins)
2. England (3 wins)
3. Ireland (3 wins)
4. Wales (3 wins)
5. Scotland (1 win)
5. Italy (1 win)

2,3,4 decided on points difference

Haven't read all comments here but that's to me is the best rendition of those that I've read so far - in that it highlights the truth that France are not going to be taking up regular residence in the wooden spoon department of this here contest. And anyone who is of the firm opinion that they'll languish in and around there for a few seasons more - well, you'll win a lot of money if it happens coz the bookies won't agree with you.

hugehandoff wrote:Now that the AIs have concluded (Wales V Aus excepted) do you see the 6Ns 2014 finishing any different to 2013?

For me the immediate answer is NO.

Wales still have the strongest team, but if they lose to Aus then their confidence may take a hit. But they can match any side up front and have more skill and nouse in the backs than the others. Much depends on player fitness, for all sides, but if Jamie Roberts and Jon Davies are fit then Wales will be in a good place. Maybe no grand slam as Ireland and England are both away but still overall winners for me.

England may have found a world class pack and a hard edge up front, but they are no where near finding any attacking backs who can score tries. Plenty to prove and much depends on whether Manu returns and if and how Yarde and Wade might go? France away first up is crucial. Ireland and Wales at home is nice but both those teams have a good recent record there.

Ireland showed some fire yesterday, but I hope they do not follow the same pattern as England last year. One good performance against the All Blacks does not mean that similar performances will follow. POC is essential and needs to stay fit and they could be in the mix, but expect 2nd or 3rd.

France for me will continue to underachieve as long as PSA remains in charge. With their talent pool their recent record should be so much better and I think they will be mid table again.

Scotland - no change really. Decent pack and useless backs. Similar to England in that regard but just at a lower level overall. They can turn sides over at home on a nasty day and may do that to England this year, but their inability to score tries is such that they will battle for the wooden spoon again.

Italy - similar to Scotland with a decent pack and not much in the backs. Wooden spoon favourites.

Overall I see no change to the 6N table from last year. Do you agree or disagree?

From a Welsh point of view we have some horrible fixtures, England and Ireland away.

Ireland showed what they can do when they up their game, but just like the Wales-Ireland game last year, they cant maintain that level of intensity for long. Both playing England and Ireland away is a tough prospect though. If Wales don't have their first choice team I predict they will struggle as they do not have the required depth yet.

Favorites for me are Wales, England and France in equal measure. Dont care that France came last last year if anything that means they will be back with a bang. Second favorites are Ireland who will probably get too many injuries to challenge in 5 matches but have a chance.

Scotland and Italy are good enough to beat anyone if they play well but will probably finish toward the bottom.

Performance spread*:

Wales - 6-8
France - 4-9
England - 5-8
Ireland 4-8
Italy - 2-7
Scotland - 2-7

*In other words Ireland are capable of playing as well as 8 out of 10 based on the bar set by the ABs at 10 out of 10. However, they are also capable of playing as bad as a 4.

IronMike wrote:From a Welsh point of view we have some horrible fixtures, England and Ireland away.

Ireland showed what they can do when they up their game, but just like the Wales-Ireland game last year, they cant maintain that level of intensity for long.

Let's hope so!

To hard to call imo.

I know who won't win the 6N and thats Italy and Scotland.

there is also that myth that France gets to win the 5/6N after a Lions tour. AI form certainly not suggesting that at the moment. I think most home unions have enough depth and players are more prepared than they used to be. Realisticly we are probably looking at similar results than 2 years ago with England challenging a bit more.
So I'd go for England/ Wales/Ireland/France/Scotland/Italy.
the real question is will Ireland and France draw a 3rd time in a row?

IronMike wrote:

Ireland showed what they can do when they up their game, but just like the Wales-Ireland game last year, they cant maintain that level of intensity for long.

Fair assessment - it's the gapingly obvious assessment that any opposition team will make on us at present.  But Schmidt (who doesn't seem to like the idea of teams that can't make it to the end of a high tempo game) and his new coaching team knew this gapingly obvious weak point too when they signed up.  Which suggests they might feel they have solutions to that frustrating fall-off of stamina in high tempo games.

So I'd simply add to the end of your fair comment the word............. "YET"......................

It's not a myth, whocares! You have to go back to 1994 for the last time that a French side didn't win the 5/6 N in the year after a Lions tour. Indeed, France only lost a total of one game in '98, '02, '06 and 2010 (Murrayfield in '06). It's what happens when we get to March and the toll of years, in some cases, of continuous, high-intensity international rugby starts to be taken. Saint-Andre may manage to spoil the pattern, but I can't believe that it's mere coincidence.

captain carrantuohil wrote:It's not a myth, whocares! You have to go back to 1994 for the last time that a French side didn't win the 5/6 N in the year after a Lions tour. Indeed, France only lost a total of one game in '98, '02, '06 and 2010 (Murrayfield in '06). It's what happens when we get to March and the toll of years, in some cases, of continuous, high-intensity international rugby starts to be taken. Saint-Andre may manage to spoil the pattern, but I can't believe that it's mere coincidence.

It's not a coincidence...but it is an insult.  

You see when people talk of the Lions and what it might do to sides that engaged in it a good six months after it concludes, those people are talking of the classic old amateur days.... not this world and its professionalism.  If players are still feeling the effects of Lions duty in February and March of the following year then they are quite possibly in the wrong line of work or closing in for their retirement. Whatever the truth, it's an insult to French rugby to say they can only get the upper hand when some of the others are 'weakened' by their exertions with the Lions. Do France play Summer rugby when the Lions play their tour? - Yes. Do French player play more games in a normal season than their AP/Pro12 cousins? Yes

The true meaning of any French resurgance after a Lions year is down to their own rhythms - they don't care a hoot about Lions but they do care about the much bigger competition that hits two years after every Lions tour - and that's the WC, which the French are pretty good at in a European context.

The French have their own agenda.  They building towards a world cup....same as usual.

SecretFly wrote:

IronMike wrote:

Ireland showed what they can do when they up their game, but just like the Wales-Ireland game last year, they cant maintain that level of intensity for long.

Fair assessment - it's the gapingly obvious assessment that any opposition team will make on us at present.  But Schmidt (who doesn't seem to like the idea of teams that can't make it to the end of a high tempo game) and his new coaching team knew this gapingly obvious weak point too when they signed up.  Which suggests they might feel they have solutions to that frustrating fall-off of stamina in high tempo games.

So I'd simply add to the end of your fair comment the word............. "YET"......................

You will no doubt be thrashing some of the best teams if you can keep that tempo for 80 minutes

SecretFly wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:It's not a myth, whocares! You have to go back to 1994 for the last time that a French side didn't win the 5/6 N in the year after a Lions tour. Indeed, France only lost a total of one game in '98, '02, '06 and 2010 (Murrayfield in '06). It's what happens when we get to March and the toll of years, in some cases, of continuous, high-intensity international rugby starts to be taken. Saint-Andre may manage to spoil the pattern, but I can't believe that it's mere coincidence.

It's not a coincidence...but it is an insult.  

You see when people talk of the Lions and what it might do to sides that engaged in it a good six months after it concludes, those people are talking of the classic old amateur days.... not this world and its professionalism.  If players are still feeling the effects of Lions duty in February and March of the following year then they are quite possibly in the wrong line of work or closing in for their retirement.  Whatever the truth, it's an insult to French rugby to say they can only get the upper hand when some of the others are 'weakened' by their exertions with the Lions.  Do France play Summer rugby when the Lions play their tour? - Yes.  Do French player play more games in a normal season than their AP/Pro12 cousins?  Yes

The true meaning of any French resurgance after a Lions year is down to their own rhythms - they don't care a hoot about Lions but they do care about the much bigger competition that hits two years after every Lions tour - and that's the WC, which the French are pretty good at in a European context.

The French have their own agenda.  They building towards a world cup....same as usual.

Well we are seeing an impact from the Lions tour right now, with a number of tourists injured or out of form. It may well be due to having played a very long and intense year with few breaks. However we would hope that by the new year these problems will mostly have been resolved, although England for one are likely to be without Manu.

I didn't at any point suggest that the French can only gain the upper hand in the year after a Lions tour - they've also won a Slam in 2004, the year after a RWC, so their rhythms are not necessarily predictable. You'd have thought that the French might have done just as well in the 6N of the year of the RWC itself, but it hasn't been so.

The butcher's bill, as Wales and Scotland are especially discovering this year, quite often seems to be higher in the year after a Lions tour. The French may have toured last summer, but it was positively desultory by comparison with the intensity of a Lions sequence of matches.

I must say that I can't see where any insult to French rugby lies.

captain carrantuohil wrote:I didn't at any point suggest that the French can only gain the upper hand in the year after a Lions tour - they've also won a Slam in 2004, the year after a RWC, so their rhythms are not necessarily predictable. You'd have thought that the French might have done just as well in the 6N of the year of the RWC itself, but it hasn't been so.

The butcher's bill, as Wales and Scotland are especially discovering this year, quite often seems to be higher in the year after a Lions tour. The French may have toured last summer, but it was positively desultory by comparison with the intensity of a Lions sequence of matches.

I must say that I can't see where any insult to French rugby lies.

Insult in debating terms..the argument itself I feel insults the French.  Do I mean that I think you're throwing a sleazy swipe at them?  No - not at all.  
Just that it's an agrument I've never warmed to and don't share your opinion on.  The French look after themselves and move to their own rhythms.  If they are down, it's usually because they have lost shape themselves rather than too much undue pressure from other teams. If they are up, it's because they are good enough to be, not because their opponents have taken the foot off the gas.

Just a difference of opinion, carrantuohil.

Ah, fair enough, secret. I think the first game in Paris will tell us a big story about where their heads are this time.

hugehandoff wrote:Scotland - no change really. Decent pack and useless backs. Similar to England in that regard but just at a lower level overall. They can turn sides over at home on a nasty day and may do that to England this year, but their inability to score tries is such that they will battle for the wooden spoon again.

Those the same useless backs that scored as many as the Welsh back-line last year (more than English, Irish & French)?

Wales v Italy Sat 2.30
France v England Sat 5.00
Ireland v Scotland Sun 3.00

Ireland v Wales Sat 2.30
Scotland v England Sat 5.00
France v Italy Sun 3.00

Wales v France Fri 8.00
Italy v Scotland Sat 1.30
England v Ireland Sat 4.00
 
Ireland v Italy Sat 2.30
Scotland v France Sat 5.00
England v Wales Sun 3.00

Italy v England Sat 12.30
Wales v Scotland Sat 2.45
France v Ireland Sat 5.00

1= England, France - 4 wins
3= Wales, Ireland - 3 wins
5. Italy - 1 win
6. Scotland - 0 wins

Happy enough with how the fixtures fall for Ireland this year.

The thing that is tough about the six nations is that in all honesty any rugby fan can easily envisage your team either winning or losing all their games.

The passions, the pressures and the rewards are in many ways higher than any other international. It is a stunning competition.

No team can be undervalued. As discussed above, Scotland and Italy may be the weaker teams on paper but they can beat any side. Wales maybe be the best but they can fail too.

It is unmitigated factors that enter the equation that we can't calculate this far out, injury or a mad referee.

The difference between the top and bottom have narrowed massively in the last five years. Aren't we all very lucky that they have.

maestegmafia wrote:The thing that is tough about the six nations is that in all honesty any rugby fan can easily envisage your team either winning or losing all their games.

The passions, the pressures and the rewards are in many ways higher than any other international. It is a stunning competition.

No team can be undervalued. As discussed above, Scotland and Italy may be the weaker teams on paper but they can beat any side. Wales maybe be the best but they can fail too.

It is unmitigated factors that enter the equation that we can't calculate this far out, injury or a mad referee.

The difference between the top and bottom have narrowed massively in the last five years. Aren't we all very lucky that they have.

maestegmafia I am sorry but that's just silly. Italy cannot beat any side - they have not beaten England yet. Scotland haven't beaten England at Twickenham in over 20 years (I know they are playing in Murrayfield next year but my point still stands).

Italy and Scotland look likely to be 5th and 6th again. Things aren't as open as you like to think.

Do you really think an Italian or Scot thinks they will win all their games? There's a reason why odds on an Italian GS are slim.....

Italy aren't a bad side but they still aren't yet quite as good as the likes of England,Wales,Ireland and France.

Way too early to say but going on the recent AI's and squads, I would say it will be a toss up between England and Wales.

There's another four rounds of HEC rounds to play in the interim plus crucial 'must-win' games (and my side is already buggered on both those counts). Injuries may well be the key.

I strongly favour this outcome

France (rebound)
England (depth only)
Wales (lack of depth)
Ireland (still casting off the old guard and wasting more time)
Italy
Scotland (whitewash)