Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"

by Fernando Fri 18 Oct 2013, 10:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

Tiger Woods has been called a cheat by one of American television’s most respected golf commentators. In an explosive article in the US magazine Golf, former PGA Tour professional and Golf Channel lead analyst Brandel Chamblee has tarred the world number one with the worst label possible.
It seems inevitable Woods will take legal action, for how can he let such an allegation go unchallenged in this, of all sports?

Woods won five times on the PGA Tour and was named Player of the Year by his peers. But he was also involved in no fewer than four rules controversies, and it clearly incensed Chamblee.
Calling Tiger ‘cavalier with the rules,’ the 51 year old American gave exam grades in the magazine article to each of the leading players and awarded Woods an ‘F.’ He then embarked on an analogy that left no room for doubt as to why the grade was so dismal.

‘When I was in the fourth grade I cheated on a maths test and when I got the paper back it had “100” written at the top and just below the grade was this quote: ‘Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!”
‘It was an oft-quoted line from the epic poem “Marmion” by Sir Walter Scott, and my teacher’s message was clear. Written once more beneath that quote was my grade of “100” but this time with a line drawn through it and beneath that an F.
'I never did ask my teacher how she knew I cheated and I certainly didn’t protest the grade. I knew I had done the wrong thing and I never forgot the way I felt.’ Drawing a line through a score of 100 and giving Woods an F, Chamblee concluded: ‘I remember when we only talked about Tiger’s golf.
'I miss those days. He won five times and contended in majors and won the Vardon Trophy and....how shall we say this....was a little cavalier with the rules.’
Woods has caused plenty of muttering behind hands with his rules issues but Chamblee is the first to declare he cheated. It is certainly a brave call given the power Woods holds, and the storm that will assuredly follow.
Chamblee might not be the biggest name on the golf analyst circuit but he is certainly among the most forthright and knowledgeable

Woods’s rules woes began at the Abu Dhabi Championship in January, where he was given a two shot penalty for taking an illegal drop.
By far the worst came at the Masters, where he again took an illegal drop after his approach to the 15th in the second round cannoned unluckily off the flag stick into a water hazard. Woods duly signed for an incorrect scorecard when he was subsequently assessed a two stroke penalty.
Disqualification ought to have followed, only for the Masters rules committee to come up with a tortuous explanation as to why ‘exceptional’ circumstances applied. Even so, when he realised he had broken the rules, Woods should have disqualified himself. Instead, he played on.

A month later, he allegedly gave himself another favourable drop at the Players Championship. Finally, at the BMW Championship in Chicago last month, he argued vehemently against a two shot penalty being assessed for causing his ball to move while lifting a twig, even though television evidence appeared damning.
Now Chamblee has reached the gravest conclusion. We haven’t heard the last of this.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-2465974/Tiger-Woods-labelled-cheat-pro-commentator-Brandel-Chamblee.html#ixzz2i75VRvS8
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by MustPuttBetter Thu 24 Oct 2013, 3:31 pm

So in summary, the point that I apparently didn't grasp was actually your opinion that what Sergio said is racist? And now your whole Toure hyperbole makes complete sense? Even though you stated that opinion and the hyperbole in the same message thereby can have had no idea if I understood it.

Got it, say more. You've clearly nailed it

by MontysMerkin Thu 24 Oct 2013, 3:39 pm

I think it has well known racist overtones in the states which is why it was picked up on, I'm not sure fatty Alliss would have got the reference tho. I suppose it would compare to going on about spuds to the bog trotters.... Whistle

by MustPuttBetter Thu 24 Oct 2013, 4:01 pm

That's a whole different debate that has already happened!
There were a fair number of people both on here and publicly willing to give Sergio the benefit of the doubt.

My point was it amuses me how Tigerites will twist themselves into all sorts of knots to do whatever it takes for Team Tiger. Very strange

by MustPuttBetter Thu 24 Oct 2013, 4:10 pm

Tiler76 wrote:
MontysMerkin wrote:I don't think anyone in their right mind would try and say that Garcia was not being racist. Why fried chicken? Hence Garcia's apology.

Garcia apologised because his comment caused offence, not (necessarily) because it was intended to be racist. You choose to believe he must be racist because he must have known the implications of his comment, despite evidence (at the time) from other people on this forum who state they had never heard of the racist connotations of "fried chicken" before this incident. I choose to believe that Sergio made a poor throwaway remark in response to a direct question, but with no racial intent. A brain fart, if you will. However, I freely accept I may not be in my right mind......

I missed this but clap

by Davie Thu 24 Oct 2013, 4:17 pm

If people made monkey chants at Gareth Bale, would that be racist?

by super_realist Thu 24 Oct 2013, 4:18 pm

Davie wrote:If people made monkey chants at Gareth Bale, would that be racist?

no, but it would be an insult to the monkey to make the comparison.

by Tiler76 Thu 24 Oct 2013, 4:23 pm

Davie wrote:If people made monkey chants at Gareth Bale, would that be racist?

I'm sure Kick It Out would find a way to use it to drive their agenda. So "yes".

by Lairdy Thu 24 Oct 2013, 4:25 pm

MontysMerkin wrote:Correct but i still reckon it was a dropped bollock and not intentional. Yes he wanted to go a few yards further back but he fecked up by not keeping the ball crossing point in line. Think it was a mistake rather than an intentional attempt at cheating - not that it excuses it. But I'm nice like that - like to see the good in people

Nothing to do with keeping the crossing point in line. He was dropping stroke and distance, which should be as near as possible to the same spot from which the original shot was taken. Its the simplest drop rule in golf. Admitting to moving it back some to help his approach did not help his cause.

Mac, I've already said that I fully understand he probably didnt intentionally break the rules but if someone is so focused in trying to gain as much advantage as they can in taking a drop to the extent the drop is illegal then its pretty valid that their integrity is questioned. Intentionally or not doesnt matter, he should be aware of the rules and how they dictate what he should do in a situation. If he'd 'gotten away with it', won and years down the line someone watching the highlights noticed.... what would he have to do? Rhetorical question but worth thinking about.

by super_realist Thu 24 Oct 2013, 4:27 pm

Tiler76 wrote:
Davie wrote:If people made monkey chants at Gareth Bale, would that be racist?
I'm sure Kick It Out would find a way to use it to drive their agenda. So "yes".

Or maybe the Society for Monkey Lawyers

by Lairdy Thu 24 Oct 2013, 4:28 pm

The Sergio Tiger spat is so dull. Sergio said a racist remark. Sergio apologised and they shook hands. Move on ffs.

by Tiler76 Thu 24 Oct 2013, 4:38 pm

Lairdy

You could apply the same logic to Tiger's Masters drop. I.e. Tiger made a poor drop. The committee decided a 2-stroke penalty was appropriate. Moving on.....

by MontysMerkin Thu 24 Oct 2013, 5:27 pm

MustPuttBetter wrote:That's a whole different debate that has already happened!
There were a fair number of people both on here and publicly willing to give Sergio the benefit of the doubt.

My point was it amuses me how Tigerites will twist themselves into all sorts of knots to do whatever it takes for Team Tiger. Very strange

By the same token it sickens me how racists will twist themselves into all sorts of knots to do whatever it takes for team Garcia. But like baby Jesus I forgive all you sinners. kiss

by lorus59 Thu 24 Oct 2013, 5:52 pm

It looks like Chamblee was forced to apologise. Maybe the Golf Channel were afraid of legal action.

by MustPuttBetter Thu 24 Oct 2013, 6:40 pm

MontysMerkin wrote:
MustPuttBetter wrote:That's a whole different debate that has already happened!
There were a fair number of people both on here and publicly willing to give Sergio the benefit of the doubt.

My point was it amuses me how Tigerites will twist themselves into all sorts of knots to do whatever it takes for Team Tiger. Very strange
By the same token it sickens me how racists will twist themselves into all sorts of knots to do whatever it takes for team Garcia. But like baby Jesus I forgive all you sinners.

I'm a racist now?
You're like one of those kids who just repeats everything you say?!
I think you're embarrassing yourself so I'll let you leave it there. At least you've answered my moron query

by MontysMerkin Thu 24 Oct 2013, 9:32 pm

No not a racist. Calm down dear. You're no more racist than I'm a tigerite.

by incontinentia Fri 25 Oct 2013, 7:49 am

MontysMerkin wrote:I think it has well known racist overtones in the states which is why it was picked up on, I'm not sure fatty Alliss would have got the reference tho. I suppose it would compare to going on about spuds to the bog trotters....

excuse me, who are the bog trotters?

by McLaren Fri 25 Oct 2013, 8:09 am

The irish.

by super_realist Fri 25 Oct 2013, 8:11 am

McLaren wrote:The irish.

Cue synthetic outrage and a letter to Barry Took from Inco.

by McLaren Fri 25 Oct 2013, 8:18 am

Is he any relation to peregrin?

by MontysMerkin Fri 25 Oct 2013, 8:56 am

incontinentia wrote:
MontysMerkin wrote:I think it has well known racist overtones in the states which is why it was picked up on, I'm not sure fatty Alliss would have got the reference tho. I suppose it would compare to going on about spuds to the bog trotters....
excuse me, who are the bog trotters?

Bog trotters are small six fingered folk who live in the wetlands of southern Lincolnshire. Raised on a diet of cabbage and mud they rarely measure more than 4 foot 3, but due to the extra fingers have the most amazing musical ability. Especially on the banjo.

by BlueCoverman Fri 25 Oct 2013, 9:11 am

You see what happens to you when you take too many drugs kids warning

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 25 Oct 2013, 10:07 am

Can we get back on topic please?

by Bob_the_Job Fri 25 Oct 2013, 10:08 am

So in summary:

1. Tiger may or may not be a cheat
2. Chamblee may or may not be an idiot
3. Golf may or may not be racist
4. Mac is full of it
5. Outrage can be synthesised
6. Drugs are not good.

We've got this debating lark down pat.

by MontysMerkin Fri 25 Oct 2013, 10:11 am

Glad we got that sorted out.

by Roller_Coaster Fri 25 Oct 2013, 10:52 am

Bob_the_Job wrote:So in summary:

1. Tiger may or may not be a cheat
2. Chamblee may or may not be an idiot
3. Golf may or may not be racist
4. Mac is full of it
5. Outrage can be synthesised
6. Drugs are not good.

We've got this debating lark down pat.

I'm outraged. Some drugs are good. This is ridiculous. I don't see how anyone can get away with posting this type of... Oh.. Hang on.

Number 5 has me stitched up here.

Sorry all.

Carry on.

censored

by McLaren Tue 29 Oct 2013, 3:34 am

Seems tiger and his agent are still not happy with Chamblee and want the golf channel to take some action.

Speaking at mission hills

Tiger wrote:"All I am going to say is that I know I am going forward. But then, I don't know what the Golf Channel is going to do or not. But then that's up to them. The whole issue has been very disappointing as he didn't really apologize and he sort of reignited the whole situation."

Mark steinberg wrote:"I'm all done talking about it and it's now in the hands of the Golf Channel....That's Tiger's view and that's mine, and all we want to do is move forward. And whether the Golf Channel moves forward as well, then we'll have to wait and see."

Are they looking for a sacking or just an on air apology?

Worth considering that the NBC/Golf Channel broadcast the World Challenge.

by kwinigolfer Tue 29 Oct 2013, 12:31 pm

Mac,
I don't understand why what Chamblee wrote should be the subject of conjecture around NBC/GC's coverage of the "World" Challenge.

Please explain, given that the opinion expressed was on neither NBC or the GC. Surely that's going after the wrong horse, which has already bolted anyway?

by McLaren Tue 29 Oct 2013, 12:36 pm

Kwini

It is clear from the quotes I provided that tiger and steiny think the golf channel should do something. Did you read my post?

So don't ask me why it is golf channel that team tiger have decided should deal with chamblee, but they have.

Just don't get why tiger would wish to pick a fight with one of his event partners.

by kwinigolfer Tue 29 Oct 2013, 12:59 pm

Mac,
My point is that would you expect the BBC to apologize for something one of their journos wrote in the Sporting Life? Of course not.
I read your post but your question should be why Woods and "Steiny" are apparently so stupid as to expect a third party to apologize for something they haven't done.

Perhaps being just a bit "Cavalier" again?

by super_realist Tue 29 Oct 2013, 1:01 pm

Inco expected the BBC to apologise for use of the common phrase "Luck of the irish"

by McLaren Tue 29 Oct 2013, 1:10 pm

I didn't express an opinion as to whether they had the correct target for their ire or not.

And no, that should not have been my question as it would have been unnecessarily biased.

Is it likely tiger has bothered to check the exact facts, such as the original publication?

by kwinigolfer Tue 29 Oct 2013, 1:25 pm

All a bit like playing to the wrong rule, a la Augusta. Perhaps being a bit "Cavalier with the Rules".
Not unlike his pre-hydrant sex life.

by incontinentia Tue 29 Oct 2013, 1:32 pm

super_realist wrote:Inco expected the BBC to apologise for use of the common phrase "Luck of the irish"

oh, i thought he was saying the "look" of the Irish. this has all been a huge misunderstanding!

by super_realist Tue 29 Oct 2013, 1:34 pm

Surprised Bono can get sunglasses with the lenses that close together Inco.
Must be kids ones

by incontinentia Tue 29 Oct 2013, 2:06 pm

super_realist wrote:Surprised Bono can get sunglasses with the lenses that close together Inco.
Must be kids ones

a monocle works fine for most of us super, saves money on frames too.

by MontysMerkin Tue 29 Oct 2013, 2:07 pm

Someones hacked his account!!!

by Davie Tue 29 Oct 2013, 4:04 pm

I hear Tiger has been dropped by EA Sports .. Chamblee is making sure he was dropped in the right place

by McLaren Tue 29 Oct 2013, 11:40 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:All a bit like playing to the wrong rule, a la Augusta. Perhaps being a bit "Cavalier with the Rules".
Not unlike his pre-hydrant sex life.

Or maybe is post hydrant sex life as well. Does anyone else think LV might be a bit "cavalier" in the bedroom? And she has a hole in one!

Lindsey Vonn on Letterman:

In seriousness from the interviews I have seen of her she seems like a pretty nice person. So whats she doing with tiger?

by kwinigolfer Wed 30 Oct 2013, 7:55 pm

Hadn't seen Christine Brennan's take on the Tiger/Brandel brouhaha, but ran in to my local European Tour caddie and he pointed me in this direction:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2013/10/23/brandel-chamblee-tiger-woods/3173301/

by pedro Wed 30 Oct 2013, 8:10 pm

FOUR rules incidents in a year? That's what I call a Tiger ~~Slam~~ Scam.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 30 Oct 2013, 11:05 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Hadn't seen Christine Brennan's take on the Tiger/Brandel brouhaha, but ran in to my local European Tour caddie and he pointed me in this direction:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2013/10/23/brandel-chamblee-tiger-woods/3173301/

What a crock of merde. I suggest she stays on the baseball if that's her interest. She thinks that because trash talking about baseball players is 'OK', it's OK to talk ballocks re. golfers? Great journalism Rolling Eyes

.

by McLaren Thu 31 Oct 2013, 2:34 am

Seems rory isn't a chamblee fan

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2013/10/30/rory-if-it-wasnt-for-tigerpeople-wouldnt-know-brandel.html

Rory Mcilroy wrote:'I say Brandel was completely wrong and I don't think he has the authority to say anything bad about Tiger,' said McIlroy. 'People wouldn't know who Brandel was if it wasn't for Tiger, so I am completely against what he said and he should be dealt with in the right way.'

Lawernce donegan (of all people) tweeted that mcilroy "has lost the plot" for making the above statement.

I wonder what the "right way" is?

by MustPuttBetter Thu 31 Oct 2013, 9:49 am

Bearing in mind Rory has a swoosh shaped vested interest in siding with Tiger, i think you've got to take his comments with a pinch of salt, no?

Rory still talks like a very young man. "I don't think he has the authority to say anything bad about Tiger" - what does that mean?!

by super_realist Thu 31 Oct 2013, 9:54 am

What an idiot pube head is, as unintelligent as Nine Chins himself it would seem.

by McLaren Tue 05 Nov 2013, 4:57 am

Hard to argue with much in this assessment of the situation;

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/80825/an-idiots-guide-to-the-tiger-woods-brandel-chamblee-feud

by super_realist Tue 05 Nov 2013, 7:45 am

I've no problem with what Chamblee said, I've never heard of the guy before but he didn't actually say the word "Cheat" at any point did he?

What a horribly written, apologists bumlicking review of a storm in a tea cup, almost as bad as Plebgate.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 05 Nov 2013, 8:55 am

super_realist wrote:I've no problem with what Chamblee said, I've never heard of the guy before but he didn't actually say the word "Cheat" at any point did he?

by MustPuttBetter Tue 05 Nov 2013, 9:47 am

McLaren wrote:Hard to argue with much in this assessment of the situation;

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/80825/an-idiots-guide-to-the-tiger-woods-brandel-chamblee-feud

I'd actually say that was quite a fair summary

by kwinigolfer Tue 05 Nov 2013, 12:14 pm

Would have been even fairer if he questioned why the Golf Channel should have taken action against Chamblee when his incendiary article was for a different organization entirely.

by Shotrock Wed 06 Nov 2013, 2:32 pm

Read into this what you will. I read a boardroom discussion full of well-paid and eager lawyers that were ready to pounce ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/31/sports/golf/chamblee-resigns-from-golf-magazine-after-critical-remarks-on-woods.html?src=rechp&_r=0

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