norton v modern heavyweights

Evening all,

With the sad passing away of Ken Norton I've been wondering how you guys think fights would have gone on with the current crop of heavyweights. So let's try the following.

Vital
Wladimir
Povetkin
Haye
Adamek
Stiverne
Pulev
Fury
Arreola
Solis

Cheers gents
Wilder

Loses the the first two and beats the others

He would beat Wlad. Wlad was made for him. Vitali would take him out of there within 3. As would Wilder. The rest wouldn't stand a chance.

Loses to handsomely to Witaly Probably loses to Wlad.
Has a good fight with Haye, winning clearly under 15 rounds, maybe a little closer in 12. Wilder hits wildly, but I think he catches him eventually. So I think #2 -#4 in todays division

I think he wins them all. He struggled with punchers but his work rate takes him past this drab bunch.

Norton went more or less evens up with Ali and Holmes. Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as some of that dross.

Correction - He beat Ali 3/3 and went more or less evens with Holmes

Some had the Ali fights closer than I.

Come on, lets not get ahead of ourselves. Pay your respects and all that, but to say he beat Ali 3/3 is reaching. The second fight was clearly Ali. The 3rd could have gone either way. I saw is recently on ESPN Classic and scored it for Ali despite thinking Norton won after reading many reports about the so called robbery. Apparently AP scored it for Ali.

Realistically you could probably make a (wrong) case for Ali winning the second, but the third was pretty clear.
But he struggled against big hitters, and because of that you cant discount anyone in the biggest hitting division. By all accounts (fighters who fought Wlad, and other HW champs) Wlad hits like a truck when he decides to drop the anvil. While Vitali is simply too big too tough, and more importantly also hits like a truck. Haye could imo really give Norton a fright. He will probably lose, but I dont think its an insult to mention Haye in the same breath as Norton. The Wilder choice is probably reaching, but he too... hits like a brake-less truck... Lacks Witaly and Wlads accuracy, but could Norton really avoid getting caught flush?

Az - Mate, In the words of most disco jockeys... I respect your opinion, but youre wrong.

To be honest I thought the third one was the easiest to score of the lot, Az, and I thought Norton won it by three rounds. Hard-fought throughout, very competitive, but Norton clearly had the upper hand for me. Although curiously, it was the only one of the trilogy that was a unanimous decision rather than a split one, despite most (not all, as even Frazier scored it dead even, oddly enough) observers feeling that it was the most clear-cut fight Ali and Norton had.

I agree with you about Ali winning the second one, mind you.

I think Norton would beat them all. The Klitschkos are too ponderous too make their power count against him and they might not know what to do against a heavyweight that isnt rubbish and can box.

Ha. Nice one raf.

Chris, Ali (imo) won the 3rd because he literally stole the rounds. He got on his bike more and landed jab after jab. Norton was coming forward but he hardly landed. Ali stole the rounds.

Ahhh, someone agrees with me. Time to alter tactics

George Foreman wasnt a noted panther in the ring, and he picked Norton apart...

kingraf wrote:George Foreman wasnt a noted panther in the ring, and he picked Norton apart...

He didn't pick him apart. He bludgeoned him.

Cooney as well

Picked him apart with a blunt object then...

Norton got taken out by big hitters who had a one track mind. The Klitschkos like to pick apart their opponents an soften them up before they eventually move in for the kill when their opponent is helpless. They wouldnt be able to do that to Norton.

So Wilder has a better than even shot then?

catchweight wrote:Norton got taken out by big hitters who had a one track mind. The Klitschkos like to pick apart their opponents an soften them up before they eventually move in for the kill when their opponent is helpless. They wouldnt be able to do that to Norton.

That's why I reckon he would beat Wlad, but not Vit who is more aggressive especially early on in his career.

I would make him favourite against all those fighters and dont forget he could punch hard himself as well. To compete in that era you had to be a very special fighter i am afraid the only special fighter on that modern heavyweights list is Fury and he is special in a very different way.

My point is, talk all you like about the Klitschkos being methodical. But when they put bad intentions behind those hits... To then say they dont deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Norton is reaching. I personally dont think there is one fighter who is that far ahead of them, and certainly not Norton, much as I like him.

Norton could punch, but I dont think he had scary power. If Lewis couldnt sufficiently hurt Vitali (cut notwithstanding), you will excuse my doubts re: Hercules

Wlad early in his career was more aggressive than Vitali ever was, post 2004ish that of course (wisely) was no longer the case. Norton was a great boxer but froze against punchers and didn't move, he may be more vulnerable to young Wlad than the Manny Steward version, I actually think he would do better against Vitali.

Ken was apprehensive of punchers, as simple as that. Beaten before he got into the ring against George, against Shavers and as an elderly fighter, against Cooney. Think az has it about right; Vitali gets rid of him quickly; Wilder as soon as Ken has tasted his power. Don't know about Wlad - if he fought Ken the way he fought Haye, Ken would beat him with something to spare, I reckon. If Wlad actually let the shots go, then I don't like Ken's chances.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Ken was apprehensive of punchers, as simple as that. Beaten before he got into the ring against George, against Shavers and as an elderly fighter, against Cooney. Think az has it about right; Vitali gets rid of him quickly; Wilder as soon as Ken has tasted his power. Don't know about Wlad - if he fought Ken the way he fought Haye, Ken would beat him with something to spare, I reckon. If Wlad actually let the shots go, then I don't like Ken's chances.

    

This entire thread has been people agreeing with Az... Sweet Dreams are made of this

kingraf wrote:This entire thread has been people agreeing with Az... Sweet Dreams are made of this

....who has a mind to disagree

Even a blind hog finds an acorn sometimes, az.

I agree. You have found it. Enjoy. Another convert.

Convert, my hole. I invented azaniaism; you just appropriated the name and took the concept a degree or two lower.

You do me a disservice. Only 2 steps lower?

Oh alright, down with "On the Buses", "Love Thy Neighbour" and "The Thin Blue Line". I had envisaged the whole thing at the "Fawlty Towers"/ "Yes Minister" niche, personally.

Out of all those I have only seen faulty towers.

You should definitely make time for Yes Minister. If anyone offers you a DVD of the any of the other three, you should chin them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M az

I'll look out for it.

Good man, Shah.

Think people are maybe forgetting what an exceptionally fit athlete Kenny was... For sure he didn't like punchers but Vitali and Wlad are ponderous types.........

Whilst I'd have them slight favorites If kenny can make them fight at an unaccustomed pace and get through the early rounds there is nothing to say he can't rally late...He'd have to find a way to avoid being kept on the back foot though....

Haye could always bomb him out but Haye's style is made for Kenny If he doesn't..

Norton beats the rest....

I'd have him losing to Vitali and an aggressively minded Haye. Wilder...I'm yet to be convinced.

Wlad and Norton almost cancel each other out.

I don't see how Ali 2 was a robbery. A close fight but Ali winning isn't an injustice at all.

Aggressive Haye? When have you seen that happen at HW? Norton beats Haye.

The Klitschkos are not swarmers or sluggers. I dont see them being able to go in and take Norton out. They break fighters down in a methodical fashion at their own pace. Norton could live with boxers like Ali, Young and Holmes. The Klitschkos wouldnt have the skills breakdown that kind of boxer.

Vit has the size. Norton was a small HW coming under 215 most of the times I believe.

The Klitschkos have size. Norton better has mobility, speed, skills and pedigree. The Klitschkos likes to box if possible, not brawl. That suits Norton.

Maybe so ghosty, but the Vitali who fought Lewis would beat Norton imo. He beats Wlad for the reasons you give. But Vit is the tougher bugger.

He might not knock Vitali out. But hes more than capable of winning a points decision. Vitali Klitschkos face was turned into mush by the only decent jabber he faced. Norton was able to box successfully against some of the best jabbers in the business.

What if solis had managed to fulfil any of his potential? Do you feel he could have hung around long enough to have caused any problems?

With rose tinted glasses, any 70s heavy beats every 00s heavy.

spencerclarke wrote:What if solis had managed to fulfil any of his potential? Do you feel he could have hung around long enough to have caused any problems?

Not if Burger King had an outlet inside the arena.

Mr Bounce wrote:With rose tinted glasses, any 70s heavy beats every 00s heavy.

What? Every single one of them beats Lewis? Now that's a bold bold statement right there ranking second only to my "Tyson Fury to become Prime Minister within the next ten years" prediction.