Virtuoso performances against great fighters - but strangely forgotten?

Afternoon lads,

On Trussman's 'Best fighters 1982-2012' thread I mentioned that, while a great fighter, Mike McCallum was made to look like a journeyman by the relatively forgotten man of that great late eighties / early nineties generation of Middleweights, Sumbu Kalambay, when they first met.

Kalambay, I think, is generally a little underrated in any case, but this performance in particular should really get more plaudits and recognition than it does, considering that McCallum is often talked of as one of the greats of his time and one of the most underrated fighters of the lot, at least up until recent years when more people have become aware of the achievements and class of the 'Bodysnatcher.'

Forget what the cards, which were way too kind to McCallum, say - Kalambay handed McCallum a comprehensive defeat, the very first of Mike's career. You could argue that McCallum was new to the waters of 160 lb, I guess, and he was at his very best at Light-Middleweight in all probability, but he was still good enough to subsequently win the WBA Middleweight belt against Graham and defend against Collins, do what neither Chris Eubank nor Nigel Benn could manage by systematically breaking down Michael Watson, give a young James Toney two close fights and also avenge this defeat to Kalambay, albeit contentiously, in his new weight class.

McCallum was no elite-level Middleweight, but he was still a high-class one all the same.

And yet, Kalambay took on a near-enough peak McCallum and stood him on his head, to the point where you could perhaps even argue that he handled McCallum more impressively than a peak Roy Jones Jr did against a 40-year-old, podgy McCallum all the way up at Light-Heavyweight.

It was a gorgeous display of footwork, slick jabbing and defense (and he even traded a little with McCallum in the championship rounds for good measure!) against a genuinely outstanding, undefeated fighter, and yet it hardly ever gets a mention!

So are there any other similar cases which spring to mind for you fellas, where one fighter put on a masterpiece of a performance against a top class opponent, but which has also not been seen or acknowledged by anywhere near enough people?

Over to you. Cheers.

Kirkland Laing against Roberto Duran?

The Ragamuffin Man against Curry?

STC wrote:Kirkland Laing against Roberto Duran?

Hardly forgotten that one, I'd say. Always quoted as proof of a potential great that wasted his talent.

Winky against Trinidad

bhb001 wrote:

STC wrote:Kirkland Laing against Roberto Duran?

Hardly forgotten that one, I'd say. Always quoted as proof of a potential great that wasted his talent.

True. But mainly just by boxing geeks, middle aged ones at that.

STC wrote:

bhb001 wrote:

STC wrote:Kirkland Laing against Roberto Duran?

Hardly forgotten that one, I'd say. Always quoted as proof of a potential great that wasted his talent.

True. But mainly just by boxing geeks, middle aged ones at that.

Good point, well made

Funny career kalambay. Graham couldn't figure him out, mccallum couldn't figure him out, yet kalule does and in his big mainstream fight he gets stiffed by the first meaningful punch by nunn.

Apart from Dave Tiberi, I'm struggling to think of any others

Pat cowdell's losing effort against Sanchez, gets undersold... written off as Sanchez playing down to him, not what you had in mind but I'm devoid of inspiration.

Robin Reid against Joe Calzaghe.

Joe Calzaghe v Roy Jones Jr.

STC wrote:Joe Calzaghe v Roy Jones Jr.

Now that one is best forgotten surely!! And Joe was down in the first!

seanmichaels wrote:Robin Reid against Joe Calzaghe.

Wasn't a virtuoso performance otherwise Robin would have won wouldn't he?

Gary Lockett v Kelly Pavlik

milkyboy wrote:Funny career kalambay. Graham couldn't figure him out, mccallum couldn't figure him out, yet kalule does and in his big mainstream fight he gets stiffed by the first meaningful punch by nunn.

Apart from Dave Tiberi, I'm struggling to think of any others

Pat cowdell's losing effort against Sanchez, gets undersold... written off as Sanchez playing down to him, not what you had in mind but I'm devoid of inspiration.

He probably looked better against Barkley than Nunn did, as well. I think while Nunn might have had Kalambay's number in any case, the way their fight panned out was a true freak occurence. By rights it should have been a twelve-round snooze fest; Nunn wasn't a genuine knockout puncher and Kalambay had one of the best defences in town. I wonder what the odds were on a first round knockout? If they'd have fought another hundred times I doubt it would have happened again.
 
So you're admitting that Toney is a great then, Milky!?   Anyway, that's hardly a forgotten performance, is it? You NEVER let me forget it!

Zahir Raheem vs Erik Morales
Frankie Randall vs Julio Cesar Chavez

Amir Khan v Marco Antonio Barrera.

bhb001 wrote:

STC wrote:Joe Calzaghe v Roy Jones Jr.

Now that one is best forgotten surely!! And Joe was down in the first!

I thought the first couple of rounds were entertaining.

DAVE667 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:Robin Reid against Joe Calzaghe.

Wasn't a virtuoso performance otherwise Robin would have won wouldn't he?

Think I missed the point of the thread, but nonetheless some say he did.

seanmichaels wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:Robin Reid against Joe Calzaghe.

Wasn't a virtuoso performance otherwise Robin would have won wouldn't he?

Think I missed the point of the thread, but nonetheless some say he did.

It's ok sean, Glad I could help and thankfully no-one noticed your little faux pas.

88Chris05 wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Funny career kalambay. Graham couldn't figure him out, mccallum couldn't figure him out, yet kalule does and in his big mainstream fight he gets stiffed by the first meaningful punch by nunn.

Apart from Dave Tiberi, I'm struggling to think of any others

Pat cowdell's losing effort against Sanchez, gets undersold... written off as Sanchez playing down to him, not what you had in mind but I'm devoid of inspiration.

He probably looked better against Barkley than Nunn did, as well. I think while Nunn might have had Kalambay's number in any case, the way their fight panned out was a true freak occurence. By rights it should have been a twelve-round snooze fest; Nunn wasn't a genuine knockout puncher and Kalambay had one of the best defences in town. I wonder what the odds were on a first round knockout? If they'd have fought another hundred times I doubt it would have happened again.
 
So you're admitting that Toney is a great then, Milky!?   Anyway, that's hardly a forgotten performance, is it? You NEVER let me forget it!

Ha ha, hoisted by my own petard. Obviously, I was referring to fighters you think are great chris:whistle: 

Junior Jones vs MAB

Ray Close against Chris Eubank. Should have won the first fight but for Dave Parris' scorecard smiling at the monocled one and the second fight should aguably have been the draw. 

Close wasn't a fantastic fighter but he raised his game & was more than enough for Eubank to handle on those nights. Never gets a mention for it though.

The Boss wrote:Junior Jones vs MAB

 100% agree with this. Nobody remembers it, yet he did it twice! Sullied it by getting dumped on his butt by Kennedy McKinney though in his next fight...

Does Randall get enough credit for Jcc? Sturm in the 'losing' effort against Oscar?

Randall has been all but forgotten and that was a masterclass that night, even put Chavez on his backside as a finishing flourish.

hazharrison wrote:Randall has been all but forgotten and that was a masterclass that night, even put Chavez on his backside as a finishing flourish.

Got robbed in the second fight as well, As a Chavez fanatic pains me to say he bottled it that night.

Cheers Rodders

The only way you could possibly degrade Randall's win over Julio is by saying that Taylor and Whitaker had already shown the way to beat him, or at least give him a nightmare. But that's nitpicking. Brilliant performance.

That said, thank God for Richard Steele.....Well, that time at least! Julio got outclassed (I'd struggle to give him more than four rounds at best), had a point deducted in the middle rounds, got put on the deck in the eleventh....But STILL would have been allowed to keep his title on an awful draw had Steele not made that second point deduction in the championship rounds, which would have been shameful.

How one judge had Chavez winning, and another only a single point behind when Randall stood him on his head, is beyond me. He rode his luck in the rematch, too.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:The Ragamuffin Man against Curry?

Don't think he's forgotten. No more so than Turpin anyway.

Prescott vs Khan

mobilemaster8 wrote:Prescott vs Khan

More of a one punch wonder really. Very good if conserving energy is the criterion we set.

True but i have no idea what this threads about. I presumed it was good performances by a specific fighter (once in a lifetime sort of thing) that then diminished and never did the same again. Bit like rick astley.

Rick Astley broke free from the Stock, Aitken and Waterman chains. He could have made billions with them. But he had his integrity. He made his own way in the world of popular music and we will always thank him for it.

John H Stracey against Napoles, Stracey wasn't given any chance of causing an upset.

Cooper against Holyfield - Great performance by Cooper and if it was not for the ropes he would have won Holy was all over the place.

Olden days - perhaps Terry Downes having too many guns for Joey Giardello, winning a decision over Joey in his finest performance.

Maybe Duilio Loi winning two out of three against Carlos Ortiz, both with beautiful and classical boxing.

Truss mentions it from time to time, but think that Nunn's victory over the seriously accomplished Frank Tate doesn't really get the rave reviews that it deserves. Nunn won every second of that fight and looked like the best middleweight of all time for a brief moment.

Finally, what about McGuigan's victory over Juan Laporte, a little before he became world champion? Everyone raves about the Pedroza fight, but this was a much better all-round performance against a guy closer to his prime than Eusebio. Laporte was never at the races, apart from when he buzzed Barry with a huge right in the ninth, and I reckon that night was the best that Barry ever showed.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Olden days - perhaps Terry Downes having too many guns for Joey Giardello, winning a decision over Joey in his finest performance.

Maybe Duilio Loi winning two out of three against Carlos Ortiz, both with beautiful and classical boxing.

Truss mentions it from time to time, but think that Nunn's victory over the seriously accomplished Frank Tate doesn't really get the rave reviews that it deserves. Nunn won every second of that fight and looked like the best middleweight of all time for a brief moment.

Finally, what about McGuigan's victory over Juan Laporte, a little before he became world champion? Everyone raves about the Pedroza fight, but this was a much better all-round performance against a guy closer to his prime than Eusebio. Laporte was never at the races, apart from when he buzzed Barry with a huge right in the ninth, and I reckon that night was the best that Barry ever showed.

Yep don't know how Barry stood up from that right hand,it proved he could take a punch, better fighter than given credit for McGuigan.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Olden days - perhaps Terry Downes having too many guns for Joey Giardello, winning a decision over Joey in his finest performance.

Maybe Duilio Loi winning two out of three against Carlos Ortiz, both with beautiful and classical boxing.

Truss mentions it from time to time, but think that Nunn's victory over the seriously accomplished Frank Tate doesn't really get the rave reviews that it deserves. Nunn won every second of that fight and looked like the best middleweight of all time for a brief moment.

Finally, what about McGuigan's victory over Juan Laporte, a little before he became world champion? Everyone raves about the Pedroza fight, but this was a much better all-round performance against a guy closer to his prime than Eusebio. Laporte was never at the races, apart from when he buzzed Barry with a huge right in the ninth, and I reckon that night was the best that Barry ever showed.

I would encourage anyone who hasn't seen them to watch the Nunn vs Tate highlights on youtube, where they are very easy to find. Nunn looks invincible in the fight, it's the flowering of an exceptional talent against high class opposition.

Give a shout to the sadly departed Vernon Forrest for unlocking Mosley.........

Randall v Chavez
Rossman v Galindez
Mcgirt v Simon Brown (Never saw that coming)

forrest againt mosley
John against Marquez
Phillips against Tszyu

Some very good shouts there, Lance. John obviously has plenty of talent; it would have been nice to see him display it a little more often against the type of opposition that might have stretched him. Even now, the Phillips KO of Tszyu seems an incomprehensible anomaly. Terrific performance, though.

Nico the gman wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:Olden days - perhaps Terry Downes having too many guns for Joey Giardello, winning a decision over Joey in his finest performance.

Maybe Duilio Loi winning two out of three against Carlos Ortiz, both with beautiful and classical boxing.

Truss mentions it from time to time, but think that Nunn's victory over the seriously accomplished Frank Tate doesn't really get the rave reviews that it deserves. Nunn won every second of that fight and looked like the best middleweight of all time for a brief moment.

Finally, what about McGuigan's victory over Juan Laporte, a little before he became world champion? Everyone raves about the Pedroza fight, but this was a much better all-round performance against a guy closer to his prime than Eusebio. Laporte was never at the races, apart from when he buzzed Barry with a huge right in the ninth, and I reckon that night was the best that Barry ever showed.

Yep don't know how Barry stood up from that right hand,it proved he could take a punch, better fighter than given credit for McGuigan.

Yeh, that was the fight that made us all Barry believers. Hard to gauge it's true worth for me, Laporte was a bit disappointing, but how much was down to Barry and how much down to laPorte is hard to say. No doubt they picked him because he was a good name they thought was on the slide. But then a year later he frightens the life out of Chavez. Consistently inconsistent was juan.

Thought he should have won......... How about........

Witherspoon v Holmes...........Witherspoon was a 14 fight novice against a 1983 Larry....

Yes terrible Tim was pretty impressive that night, shame he lived up to the negative aspect of his nickname too often... biggest waste of talent of the 80's heavies for you truss?

No Greg Page was......He was the reason Holmes gave up the wbc belt...

Could have been great Milkster......

Better than Tubbs, Tim and all the others.........

Silky Jones vs Verno Philips is worth a mention. Anyone know why he went back down to British/Commonwealth level and never defended the belt?

Dwight Qawi vs Matthew Saad Muhammad......

You guys probably won't remember but much was being made of a very tasty big money unification between Spinks and Matt Saad Muhammad..........

Little Dwight had other ideas..........

Shame really Saad vs Spinks was very interesting style wise..

No shortage of talent... Page, Witherspoon, tubbs, Thomas, Douglas.

Hamburgers and Charlie, scourges of the 80's heavies.

Remember that one well truss. Saad had run out of miracles. Got a right pasting twice from Braxton/qawi.

Agreed Milky - the 1980s talent pool in heavyweight boxing probably had the potential to be one of the strongest ever.

It was also the era in which beak was very much seen as the designer drug of 'successful' people and less was known about 're-fuelling' between competition than is known now.

Curious how the senses of so many athletes betrayed them around the same time though. The guy smart enough to stay in shape stood to make millions, even if Don ultimately took most of it!!

...the downside of a drug that makes you feel like a worldbeater whilst having the exact opposite effect.