How Good Was Elmer Ray?

As I mentioned some time ago I was planning to write a series ranking the black murderers row fighters. Due to laziness on my parts and the difficulty in finding material on some of the guys I have put this on the back burner but in doing some initial research I did a little bit of reading about Elmer Ray. Got to be honest I did not know a lot about this guy and still don’t on the back of the scant material that is out there about him but a look at his record does suggest he was some fighter.

Between 1943 and 47 Ray was good enough to go unbeaten for a run of approximately 50 fights. Whilst it would be fair to say a scan of the record is not exactly filled with household names there are certainly a few names that will be familiar to fans of the history of the sport such as JD Turner, Lee Savold and Jersey Joe Walcott. In fact even when Jersey Joe had snapped Ray’s unbeaten run Ray was good enough to win a decision over future champion Ezzard Charles, which suggests there was a level of ability there. Also Ring had him in their top 100 punchers ever when they put the list together 10 years ago and his record of 63 KO’s from 85 wins does suggest he warrants such praise.

Have seen some other forums even going as far as to question if Louis ducked Ray. Personally think this would be a little harsh on the brown bomber as Ray’s purple patch of form pretty much coincided with the war years when Louis was obviously busy with his duties there and was not really fighting outside of exhibitions or the odd gimme defence. Those familiar with how long Conn had to wait for his rematch will know how difficult it was for Louis to take proper defences during the war years.

So my question is how good was Elmer Ray, any fighter who goes 50 unbeaten during the 40’s cannot be a mug but was he a genuine threat to Louis, is there any truth to the claims Louis avoided him or is he just one of those guys like Carpentier and Bivins who perhaps lost their best chances of a title shot through their peak coinciding with the war.

Well he couldn't get that pesky rabbit could he? hang on, that's Elmer Fudd. Sorry Rowley.

Sounds as though he's one of those guys like Calzaghe who is lambasted for not fighting RJJ when the simple truth is that for many years they weren't even in the same division or then their careers were at opposite ends of the spectrum but it's always a nice stick to bring out and beat someone with.

Anyway, nice to read something other than the usual dross that I, sorry I mean others, serve up. I still want to do an article on James "Deaf" Burke but fear the ways in which it will veer wildly off topic

To be honest Dave if you do such a thread I will do what I always do when we discuss bareknuckle guys and list daft nicknames they had such the Battersea Gardener or the Game Chicken. Will keep me amused though.

Apparently, "Vilolent" Ray sparred Moore prior to Archie's final bout with Charles. Moore floored him by all accounts.

Wasn't Louis in the military during the majority of Ray's win streak?

Nice article, Jeff.

I've struggled to rate Elmer, really. No doubt he was a handy fighter (and a mean looking fella from what I've seen), but I think a few myths have probably built up around him in recent times.

Plenty of knockouts on his record, but off the top of my head the only notable name he stopped inside-schedule was Savold. The rest of those stoppages came against pretty average opposition and his power wasn't even close to being as effective when he fought the better names on his record such as Walcott and Charles.

I believe Ray was actually the # 1 contender for Louis' title at the back end of 1946 / early 1947 on the back of his points win over Walcott. Louis, by the time of his first retirement, had taken care of pretty much any # 1 contender put his way and although I don't know for sure, I have heard that apparently it wasn't Louis who put up any barriers to a fight between him and Ray, but rather it was Ray's people who did, arguing that he apparently wasn't ready for the fight just yet.

So they chose a rematch with Walcott. Jersey Joe won it, usurped Elmer's position as number one contender and fought Louis later that same year. I don't think there's really much ground to suggest that Louis was doing his best to dodge Ray.

He was in a pretty decent position to challenge again after beating Charles, but most reports as you'll know suggested that the decision was a bit of a farce and that there was no way Ray was getting a shot at Louis on the back of such a flimsy verdict. So again, he was compelled to take a rematch, and that time out Charles gave him an absolute shellacking, of course.

That defeat pretty much ended his career as a high-level fighter, and in fairness he was pretty long in the tooth by that stage, too.

No doubt that the impact of WWII means that his career stats maybe sell him a little short, but to me Ray was just a solid fighter in any era, rather than being an exceptional one who was ducked by all and sundry.

That's just my take, anyway. Have stumbled across this wee piece from Coshocton Tribune, March 8th 1946. Suggests that some of the contenders from that era didn't want to risk their ranking against him, so who knows? Also gives a nod to the battle royals and alligator wrestling that Ray used to take part in.

Elmer (Violent) Ray has the extraordinary distinction of being the only man Joe Louis wouldn't even meet in an exhibition. Louis boxed Dan Merritt of Cleveland instead, and stood watching as Ray, a crowding weaver and bobber with the speed of a swift middleweight, ironed out Claudio Villar, a Spaniard, in 29 seconds flat.”
"Arturo Godoy and Tami Mauriello rejected guarantees to square off with Ray at Madison square Garden, Lee Oma the Violent One's share of the swag in addition to his own. Joe Baksi and Lou Nova refused. Melio Bettina will have nothing to do with the Hastings Hammerer. Jimmy Bivins turned down the chance to march front and center with him in Los Angeles, where the terror recorded 19 knockouts in a row. The current Joe Walcott will have no truck with him in Baltimore... Currently he is drawing and at Miami's Negro ball yard, Dorsey Park, while putting the slug on such as Dan Merritt and Al Patterson, the latter a slatty character out of Pittsburgh. "It's better than wrestlingalligators and fighting nine guys at once," beams Violent Ray.

Cheers Chris, as always appreciate the response. As I am sure you have found the material even online about Ray is a little on the brief side. To be honest think even was Louis active during the war years think you would have to say as duration heavyweight champion the claims of Bivins to get a shot were perhaps a little stronger. Appreciate the bulk of his work was as a light heavy, it was in an era where it was fairly common for light heavies to try their hand at heavy and he did dip his toe in the division on more than one occasion. Whilst we can scratch our heads over who exactly the names on Ray’s record were the same cannot be said of Bivins whose record is a veritable who’s who of the light heavy weight division at the time.

Yeah, hard to come across really in-depth and reliable stuff concerning Ray, isn't it? As I said above, him and his team apparently turning down a shot at Louis in favour of a Walcott rematch when he had that number one contender spot is just what I've heard, rather than something I can back up with a load of evidence. Trouble is, there's nothing but hear-say on the other side of the argument suggesting that Louis was weary of him, either.
 
Apparently it wasn't even known in boxing circles that he'd died until about fifteen years after his death or something, as nothing could be found of him in retirement! I appreciate that a lot of fighters, particularly black ones, from that era did effectively vanish without a trace after they'd hung the gloves up, but that's still pretty surprising all the same.

Bloody formidable, is what he was. The Ring, I see, has him at 44 in their list of the most destructive punchers of all time, and he was another in the long line of excellent fighters from the 40s who represented far more risk than reward to the top men.

I find particularly interesting the suggestion that a fighter as complete as Bivins might have ducked him. Hard to believe, really, but possibly an indication of how feared a proposition he was at the time. Had even heard it suggested that Archie Moore might have rejected the opportunity to face Ray, which is why I find haz's tale of their sparring especially noteworthy.

Ray is another of the relatively unsung boxers who underline just how talent-laden the 1940s really were. Had it not been for the War, I suspect that it would  be regarded as unquestionably ahead of the 70s and early 80s as the true benchmark for excellence in the sport.

I tried to read up on Ray a while ago, as I'd been reading a thing about the oldest living boxers and his name came up by default as he'd basically retired and dissapeared, making him oldest by default!

He had a stare on him, and tree trunk legs. It's easy to imagine him as a crowding bobber getting all his power from a crouch.

Infact, I remember a story from Burley and the Row about Burley sparring a bigger guy and making a fool of him, the biggun was chasing shaddows, got frustrated and shoved Burley threw the ropes. Burley got back in, resumed sparring but didn't go go defensive anymore, proceeding to spark the fellow. From memory the victim was Ray!

Have read the same story about Burley but like you cannot remember if Ray is the victim. More than possible though, Burley is obviously more noted as a defensive fighter but could be spiteful when riled. He apparently cared little for folk he considered to have taken liberties. Apparently he considered Archie Moore a little arrogant and when they fought bounced him off the canvas at will. Have read that had he chosen to Charley could have ended the fight but chose to let Archie carry on to really make him suffer.

Thought I'd read something on the subject a while back... found this, don't know reliability of the source and always taken sparring stories with a pinch but here you go...

http://www.boxingasylum.com/showthread.php?t=12372#.Uh9YNjDFJ3A

Cheers Milky, always a pleasure for me to read people saying nice things about Burley. Obviously difficult to pick the rumours from the facts when it comes to who did or didn’t avoid Charley, but if we take the rumours on face value a list that reads Armstrong, Zivic, Robinson, Cochran, Cerdan and La Motta is a not too shabby list.

Hard to find info on the guy, but if you can't find it beyond the end of your nose it may still exist.
https://www.styleseat.com/Elmerbjsipp

Its a shame he didn't make a lot of money either, but a blessing that he has found another passion to bring him some money in.