League Reboot

by sodhat Tue 16 Jul 2013, 9:25 am

First topic message reminder :

Please register your interest should we press ahead and reboot the league.

This is also a good chance to air grievances with current rules and suggest new ones, as well as any innovations you have to make it better.

We may entirely ignore all suggestions, such is our wont.

Cherries
Gregers
Olly
Azzy
ZZZ
Nando (probably)
Afro
Hero
GSC
Trebs
sodhat

Need another 1 (or 3 or 5 or 7....)

Team Selection

Every team valued at 100m or below is available

Everybody bids for their preferred team

Maximum bid is 120m, Minimum 70m. Bids must also be at least TM value of the club

Any money left over from the 120m budget goes into your budget for a player draft

Results
Same as before

Voting
Same as before, however 1 good/bad point for each team required

TP Limit
Draft = no TP limit
Start of the league = £10m limit
Each week = £1m increase
End of season 1 = £19m TP limit (based on 10 teams, no cup weeks as we'd do that at the end)
End of season 2 = £28m

You could make it £12m > £21m > £30m if preferred?

This will change slightly depending on number of teams.

Injuries
AGREED AS 4 INJURIES PER WEEK

Do we want any form of transfers healing injuries?
NO

Whether to ditch U21 and nationality restrictions
AGREED TO DITCH BOTH

League structure - single league or not?
SINGLE LEAGUE

Cash loans (inc. implied in deals) being banned
NO CASH LOANS ALLOWED, ALL TRANSFERS MUST BE PAID UP FRONT

End of season loans when you have nothing to play for - how to stop these
NO LOANS ALLOWED EXCEPT EMERGENCY LOANS FOR GOALKEEPERS

Releases - same as before?
AGREED

Any squad limits?
22 MINIMUM, 30 MAXIMUM

Runner's Duties

Releases - Azzy
Injuries - Trebs
Posting tactics - Olly
Players within league - Afro
Results - sodhat
Lawyers - Trebs
Tables - sodhat
Fixtures/results list -Afro
Top scorers - Azzy
Premier League Prediction game - ZZZ

by Guest Tue 16 Jul 2013, 11:44 am

What about asking for 'guest votes' if we don't have enough manager votes? So you could ask one of the managers on my league to vote to make up the numbers? Or ask one of the mods maybe?

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 11:45 am

Azzy Mahmood wrote:That's also agreed I reckon, they are stupid get-arounds that make it unfair on some teams.

Does anyone want to put together a long-list of things to agree before the re-boot? Afro, as you're the leader of the gang?

Not sure I am. I'm not even signed up for the reboot, just doing what I do best and giving my opinion whether it is wanted or not Laugh

by sodhat Tue 16 Jul 2013, 11:49 am

My thoughts before I dissapear beneath a large mountain of meeting minutes:

- The participation is down and a general apathy is pervading the league. I see little point in delaying a reboot if it gets a better league together.

- I never much liked the nationality/U21 restrictions and I'd be happy to back them going.

- If everyone votes fairly we can agree a single league structure. That way there is less impact when someone walks out on the league. we could just cut that team out and remove all their previous results to get it back on a level field.

- I like the idea of longer injuries. I realise it is largely opposed, but I'd be for it.

- TPs could be slowed down with weeks of closed transfer windows?

- I'd prefer a draft rather than selecting a team and having spare change to buy what you want. However, a draft is a lot of work to manage...

by Guest Tue 16 Jul 2013, 11:53 am

I agree with all your thoughts soddy, except for TPs. I think an increase every two weeks is arduous. In the Europa League it goes up by £1m every week, and there's always decent players available. But here, it's a rat race to sign up even the worst £24.5m player. I'd back not having a TM limit.

by Fernando Tue 16 Jul 2013, 11:57 am

sodhat wrote:My thoughts before I dissapear beneath a large mountain of meeting minutes:

- The participation is down and a general apathy is pervading the league. I see little point in delaying a reboot if it gets a better league together. - Agree with this

- I never much liked the nationality/U21 restrictions and I'd be happy to back them going. - Agree

- If everyone votes fairly we can agree a single league structure. That way there is less impact when someone walks out on the league. - Agree

- I like the idea of longer injuries. I realise it is largely opposed, but I'd be for it. - Not so keen on that one would limit transfers unless if they moved the injury is removed

- TPs could be slowed down with weeks of closed transfer windows? i think once all the good players are bought we'd be back to square one tbh.

- I'd prefer a draft rather than selecting a team and having spare change to buy what you want. However, a draft is a lot of work to manage... - Would be different buying a team but all the decent sides are way over 100m so would be a pretty poor team to start with.

by cherriesfna Tue 16 Jul 2013, 11:59 am

Olly wrote:I've only got 3 sets of votes from the Championship this week again

Check ur inbox

bar stewards failed to get sent last night

by cherriesfna Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:01 pm

Also guys with the getting the team and using spare money to build I squad, I'm being honest here, ill probably be taking AFCB and building them up if this gets chosen

by Marky Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:03 pm

cherriesfna wrote:Also guys with the getting the team and using spare money to build I squad, I'm being honest here, ill probably be taking AFCB and building them up if this gets chosen

Not if I sign them first to spite you Wink

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:09 pm

cherriesfna wrote:
Olly wrote:I've only got 3 sets of votes from the Championship this week again

Check ur inbox

bar stewards failed to get sent last night

Yours are one of them!!

by cherriesfna Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:10 pm

Marky wrote:
cherriesfna wrote:Also guys with the getting the team and using spare money to build I squad, I'm being honest here, ill probably be taking AFCB and building them up if this gets chosen

Not if I sign them first to spite you

You do that I'm taking these guys
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/havant--waterlooville-fc/startseite/verein_2794.html

by cherriesfna Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:11 pm

Olly wrote:
cherriesfna wrote:
Olly wrote:I've only got 3 sets of votes from the Championship this week again

Check ur inbox

bar stewards failed to get sent last night

Yours are one of them!!

Wow

A reboot is really needed,unfair on the prem teams

Also I support the1 league structure

by Guest Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:11 pm

And this is why it fails Laugh

by sodhat Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:12 pm

Maybe it would be wise to set some min/max parameters if we went down the team route.

by cherriesfna Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:14 pm

How about in the 1-2 weeks of per-season we get time to get our teams in shape , if they passan inspection then they get to keep them

If they fail a inspection then a team gets assigned

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:16 pm

Just go for drafts.

If people are patient, I will happily manage them

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:18 pm

To be honest drafts would be the way to go probably

by Zinedine_Ze_Zebra Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:18 pm

BigFellasAfro wrote:Just go for drafts.

If people are patient, I will happily manage them

Thats true. Want some help?

by Fernando Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:21 pm

we need change too much drafting tbh it's just a way of everyone getting who they want and stopping trading barring TP's essentially.

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:24 pm

Fernando wrote:we need change too much drafting tbh it's just a way of everyone getting who they want and stopping trading barring TP's essentially.

I agree, although I don't have an idea on how to get around that

by Guest Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:24 pm

Good point Nando, if I get, say, Hull City, I WANT to sell most of that team!

by Fernando Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:27 pm

admittedly this is still drafting essentially but could we get someone to make a list of 10 or however many we players for each position then assign them randomly

so say goalkeepers

De Gea - team 4
Reina - team 7
Casillas - team 1
Valdes - team 3
Chesney - team 2
Cech - team 5
Lloris - team 6

Means you still have to trade cos you won't get who you want and it would be one team.

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:30 pm

How about a combination of the two approaches?

We do the approach where you bid for a team with a £Xm budget. Everyone then also gets an extra budget (not huge), plus what they haven't spent on buying the team, to use in a draft to improve that team.

That way you maintain some of the need to do deals, but also keep a draft for those who love that.

by sodhat Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:31 pm

Fernando wrote:admittedly this is still drafting essentially but could we get someone to make a list of 10 or however many we players for each position then assign them randomly

so say goalkeepers

De Gea - team 4
Reina - team 7
Casillas - team 1
Valdes - team 3
Chesney - team 2
Cech - team 5
Lloris - team 6

Means you still have to trade cos you won't get who you want and it would be one team.

How about each manager nominates one player at each position they want in the league. Then they are randomly assigned. We'd have to set parameters of players between 8-10m or something.

by **Hero** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:33 pm

My thoughts...

Merge this and the other league.
Making a voting section where only players in the league can see and there are voting buttons for each game so it would as...

Hero
Afro
Draw

Sodhat
Olly
Draw

Quick and simple process every week that should get max respondents

Injuries; Personally I've always been a fan of the 4 week option. Once a month 4 are drawn, 1 player out 1 week, 1 player out 2 weeks, 1 player out 3 weeks, 1 player out 4 weeks. If the player moves clubs the injury heals. Yes its not realistic, well newsflash the league isnt realistic but it promotes transfers between clubs and interactivity which is the important thing.

Draft wise I like Nando's proposal of going through each positions and randomly allocating a player to each team. Again it encourages people to trade afterwards.

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:34 pm

sodhat wrote:
Fernando wrote:admittedly this is still drafting essentially but could we get someone to make a list of 10 or however many we players for each position then assign them randomly

so say goalkeepers

De Gea - team 4
Reina - team 7
Casillas - team 1
Valdes - team 3
Chesney - team 2
Cech - team 5
Lloris - team 6

Means you still have to trade cos you won't get who you want and it would be one team.

How about each manager nominates one player at each position they want in the league. Then they are randomly assigned. We'd have to set parameters of players between 8-10m or something.

I was thinking something like this as well. If we could create a set of similar standard squads and then randomly assign them to managers. And as each squad will have slightly different valuations, each squad gets a slightly different cash budget in order to get the same total value across all squads

by Guest Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:35 pm

BigFellasAfro wrote:How about a combination of the two approaches?

We do the approach where you bid for a team with a £Xm budget. Everyone then also gets an extra budget (not huge), plus what they haven't spent on buying the team, to use in a draft to improve that team.

That way you maintain some of the need to do deals, but also keep a draft for those who love that.

So you have 10 teams, and people can bid on those teams, then any money you have left after securing your team becomes your draft budget?

So for example, I win the bid on Hull City with a bid of £25m, leaving me £75m to improve through a draft?

I like the premise.

But it would depend on what teams we were using / what the TP limit was.

by Trebs Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:35 pm

Sounds good to me afro.
also to end this league how about an 8 team knockout?

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:36 pm

BigFellasAfro wrote:
sodhat wrote:
Fernando wrote:admittedly this is still drafting essentially but could we get someone to make a list of 10 or however many we players for each position then assign them randomly

so say goalkeepers

De Gea - team 4
Reina - team 7
Casillas - team 1
Valdes - team 3
Chesney - team 2
Cech - team 5
Lloris - team 6

Means you still have to trade cos you won't get who you want and it would be one team.

How about each manager nominates one player at each position they want in the league. Then they are randomly assigned. We'd have to set parameters of players between 8-10m or something.

I was thinking something like this as well. If we could create a set of similar standard squads and then randomly assign them to managers. And as each squad will have slightly different valuations, each squad gets a slightly different cash budget in order to get the same total value across all squads

I quite like this idea.

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:36 pm

Hero wrote:My thoughts...

Merge this and the other league.
Making a voting section where only players in the league can see and there are voting buttons for each game so it would as...

Hero
Afro
Draw

Sodhat
Olly
Draw

Quick and simple process every week that should get max respondents

Injuries; Personally I've always been a fan of the 4 week option. Once a month 4 are drawn, 1 player out 1 week, 1 player out 2 weeks, 1 player out 3 weeks, 1 player out 4 weeks. If the player moves clubs the injury heals. Yes its not realistic, well newsflash the league isnt realistic but it promotes transfers between clubs and interactivity which is the important thing.

Draft wise I like Nando's proposal of going through each positions and randomly allocating a player to each team. Again it encourages people to trade afterwards.

Except you wouldn't need the Hero button in that scenario Wink

by Guest Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:39 pm

I hate the idea of random players, we all hate losing out on deals and so we're all going to be stuck with players we don't want. If I have, say, Lloris and someone else has, say, Courtois, we both want £3m added to the deal as we both think our keeper is better. I can't see it working very well in practice.

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:41 pm

Options so far are:

1) straight draft as before
2) assigned real life teams
3) bidding on a selection of real life teams and then a draft to improve (with fixed budgets)
4) similar squads created and randomly assigned

by sodhat Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:42 pm

Hero wrote:My thoughts...

Merge this and the other league.
Making a voting section where only players in the league can see and there are voting buttons for each game so it would as...

Hero
Afro
Draw

Sodhat
Olly
Draw

Quick and simple process every week that should get max respondents

Injuries; Personally I've always been a fan of the 4 week option. Once a month 4 are drawn, 1 player out 1 week, 1 player out 2 weeks, 1 player out 3 weeks, 1 player out 4 weeks. If the player moves clubs the injury heals. Yes its not realistic, well newsflash the league isnt realistic but it promotes transfers between clubs and interactivity which is the important thing.

Draft wise I like Nando's proposal of going through each positions and randomly allocating a player to each team. Again it encourages people to trade afterwards.

It's more realistic than two players getting random 1 week injuries every week.

by Fernando Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:45 pm

Azzy Mahmood wrote:I hate the idea of random players, we all hate losing out on deals and so we're all going to be stuck with players we don't want. If I have, say, Lloris and someone else has, say, Courtois, we both want £3m added to the deal as we both think our keeper is better. I can't see it working very well in practice.

Your going to be stuck with players you don't want if we buy teams.

by Trebs Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:45 pm

I think people should be forced to explain themselves when they predict, can't have a vote imo.
i like the idea of a results panel of 4/5 who discuss the results. A proper old school method there.

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:55 pm

onlytreblewinners wrote:I think people should be forced to explain themselves when they predict, can't have a vote imo.
i like the idea of a results panel of 4/5 who discuss the results. A proper old school method there.

Is that not too subjective though. In the past, it is things that are left to opinions of a select few, that cause the disagreements. I like the vote button idea although I don't see how it can be used to arrive at a scoreline.

I would stick with current method, with a back-up approach if the number of votes received is below a certain number. And then more importantly, people should have to give feedback similar to Azzy's example earlier

by sodhat Tue 16 Jul 2013, 12:55 pm

Fernando wrote:
Azzy Mahmood wrote:I hate the idea of random players, we all hate losing out on deals and so we're all going to be stuck with players we don't want. If I have, say, Lloris and someone else has, say, Courtois, we both want £3m added to the deal as we both think our keeper is better. I can't see it working very well in practice.
Your going to be stuck with players you don't want if we buy teams.

Plus rip offs in transfers are half the fun. How else would Andy Carroll be worth £35m?

by FIFA Diva Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:07 pm

Can we please have a loan system in the league. I want to be a loan shark preety please and I'll even do prediction when real life prem starts.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:09 pm

The voting should stay the same I think, but the feedback Azzy suggested earlier would be a good way to go

by **Hero** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:13 pm

In addition to my thoughts on injuries then you could have the old injury system still included if you wish but instead change those to be suspensions which make more sense at the 1 week option.

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:15 pm

BigFellasAfro wrote:Options so far are:

1) straight draft as before
2) assigned real life teams
3) bidding on a selection of real life teams and then a draft to improve (with fixed budgets)
4) similar squads created and randomly assigned

My vote is option 3.

I would go with £100m to bid on the team and then whatever you don't spend plus a further £20m to use in a draft.

I would go with the 4 week injury idea to encourage transfers and good use of the squad.

I would also then go with no TP limit, but reduce the cash coming in by a) making lawyers offers only TM value + 10% rounded to nearest £100k and b) removing the participation bonus and just giving a bonus for submitting both tactics and/or votes depending on what is required from you that week

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:17 pm

Hero wrote:In addition to my thoughts on injuries then you could have the old injury system still included if you wish but instead change those to be suspensions which make more sense at the 1 week option.

You might as well just call them all injuries as the result is the same

by GSC Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:18 pm

If prefer more than 100m

Villa are rated at 100m and they're terrible

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:18 pm

BigFellasAfro wrote:
Hero wrote:In addition to my thoughts on injuries then you could have the old injury system still included if you wish but instead change those to be suspensions which make more sense at the 1 week option.

You might as well just call them all injuries as the result is the same

Except if you are saying that perhaps 1 week suspensions are not cancelled following a transfer, just the 3 injuries?

by FIFA Diva Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:18 pm

Loaning? Say Yes afro

by GSC Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:19 pm

I see no need for a loan shark tbh

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:20 pm

GSC wrote:If prefer more than 100m

Villa are rated at 100m and they're terrible

Tell you what, pull out 8-10 similar standard teams of a mid to low Premier League kind of level, and we can see what kind of value they are. Once we know that, we can decide on a fair budget

by Gregers Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:20 pm

I much prefer having a completely make believe side as opposed to using a "real one"

by **Afro** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:21 pm

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Loaning? Say Yes afro

Not one I would go for sorry.

I would go for no cash loans. I would also go for all deals having to be paid for in full at the time of the deal, so no installments, no paying a week later when you have your bonus.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:21 pm

I'd be all for option 3. Bit bored of just drafting a side from scratch over and over again

by GSC Tue 16 Jul 2013, 1:24 pm

One thing I might say if you want to do real teams is no PL sides

by Sponsored content