Nick Evans Says Robshaw May Switch To the Blindside

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_8818283,00.html

Not the first time the idea has cropped up, but interesting to see his Quins team mate talking about it.

Well its been one of the big talking points for a few years at both club and country.

But if you switch him to BS then he's up against Tom Wood and Tom Croft.

But then as mentioned England currently have Wallace, Kvesic and Fraser looking pretty good at 7.

Cant see Lancs discarding him so quickly mind...

Bring it

I think Robshaw plays his game immaterial of what number is on his back. He gets stuck into the breakdown, makes his tackles, carries and links whenever I've seen him. Didn't he also cover 6 and 8 for Quins previously?

I'd imagine Quins will move him around to accommodate whomever they think will handle the opposition best be it Robshaw/Wallace or Mo/Robshaw.

I think he may well end up playing 7 for England with Croft at 6 though.

Its got to be Wood at 6 going forward and Croft on the bench, he's too much of a luxury to start

The back row is going to be so competitive the next few seasons.

Robshaw is a class player and a rediculous workhorse as well. Id prefer him in there for the moment at one spot or another. Probably at 7 with Wood at 6

At least till we see how Kvesic and the young pretenders go through the season.

6 Wood
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan
is fine with me for the moment..

Bathite wrote:Its got to be Wood at 6 going forward and Croft on the bench, he's too much of a luxury to start

How is he a luxury? He contributes positively to aspects of the game that are essential to a successful team, but I guess that's luxurious.......

Nah. Croft's skillset is a nice counter balance for England. He substantially strengthens the lineout, kick chase and puts in considerably more work than anyone gives him credit for. Wood is too similar to Robshaw for me.

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:

Bathite wrote:Its got to be Wood at 6 going forward and Croft on the bench, he's too much of a luxury to start

How is he a luxury? He contributes positively to aspects of the game that are essential to a successful team, but I guess that's luxurious.......

He does some good lineout and wing work, but not much tackling and carrying. I see the merits of having him, but in my opinion, i'd prefer to have him on the bench with Wood starting. Wood and Robshaw doing the graft and turnover work, allowing Morgan to smash the carrying yards

To be honest I don't really care what happens regarding England. What number Robshaw has on his back is largely irrelevant. If Wallace or Maurie player, or Easter or Guest (or Clifford ) then Robshaw will focus on the aspects of his game needed to provide the balance.

I'd go Wood/Robshaw every time, both bring so much around the park.

Croft is a handy player to have around for his lineout work but often goes missing when the front 5 aren't on top. He is somewhat a luxury player but a good one to have waiting in the wings (or on the wing would be more appropriate)

GeordieFalcon wrote:
6 Wood
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan

Playing French style, left and right flanker rather than open and blind.

Players that "go missing" do not survive for very long at Leicester.

For England's sake I believe we would be weaker without Croft, but as a Tigers ST holder I would love to see him with us more.

Left and right would make sense with Robshaw and Wood, RR, as both have played predominantly at 7 over the last couple of seasons for their clubs.

"Players that "go missing" do not survive for very long at Leicester"

Leicester generally have front 5 control so this would back up my point a little. Croft has rarely transformed these performances onto the Int stage imo.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:"Players that "go missing" do not survive for very long at Leicester"

Leicester generally have front 5 control so this would back up my point a little. Croft has rarely transformed these performances onto the Int stage imo.

In this matter I rate the worth of your opinion very low.

Not saying Croftr is better, or worse, than Wood and Robshaw but to say he has rarely played well in internationals is an interesting concept. The way you and others go on he is one of the worst players to have pulled on the England white.

Wether you rate my opinion or not it's an opinion shared by more than just myself I think you'd agree?

I do rate Croft but I'd prefer a Wood/Robshaw/Fraser type player in my backrow over a luxury player like Croft.

Its funny I was watching the 1st Lions test the other day and early on Palu takes the ball and goes for a little rumble around the edge of a ruck, and Croft chops him down with a perfect knee high tackle, just the sort of thing for which other players get rave revues. Then there is stuff like the try saving tackle he got on Care in the playoffs, something that very few players could pull off.

He does tend to work in systems where front 5 players do most of the defending around the rucks, but thats as much because the coaches that pick him appreciate the things he can do further out. They also appreciate his decision making and the amount of grass he covers as well as his brilliant line out play. Sometimes because the good things he can do are very eye catching he gets more sticl than he should when he doesnt do them (see Manu for another example of that, there are plenty of others) Its all about getting the right blend of skills from your pack and he wont fit every system - but then who does?

LT, its not a case of people not rating Croft, we all rate him highly, its just many of us have a ideal type of player for the 6 spot. Now that may or may not be right but on a personal matter Croft doesnt fit that ideal. I prefer someone who is more close in the fight, where Tigers tend to play Croft more out in the backs defending against the forwards.

The only time he would is if we were to play to rediculous hulks in the second row with no lineout capabilities whatsoever. In that case he would be ideal as we need a lineout king, and the two hulks can make up for the bulk.

I'm sorry I hate to belittle other people's opinions as I know that we are all entitled to different viewss but this is one of my major bug bears at the moment. Those questioning Croft's work rate and basic back row work are just plain incorrect. He is an absolute workhorse. He hits more rucks, makes more tackles and wins far more turnovers than he is ever given credit for. People see his flash stuff in the wide channels and automatically assume he must be lacking in other areas. This is wrong. He fulfils all his basic flanker duties then adds line out superiority and wide running threat on top of this. Not instead. Please try and watch the guy around the park and pay less attention to the drivel spouted in the media.

I believe he offers everything that Robshaw does plus more. The only thing he doesn't do is stand in at first receiver but that's not something I'd encourage my forwards to do anyway.

Any combination of these three would work well but for now I think the guys with the best all round skills are Croft and Wood so I'd start these two. I'm not really bothered by what number they each have on their back and don't buy into the 'proper 7' media myth.

Tigers don't play two hulks in the second row and have managed fine.

If England want to play a more expansive game then Croft is key in my opinion. For those who say he has stepped up at the top level I'd point to the England win against Aus at Twickers pre RWC where Croft was sensational. His first 6N alongside Robshaw saw him play brilliantly. Even on the Lions tour where the Welsh were on hos case just look at that final friendly he comes off the bench and makes more tackles than Tipuric who entered the field of play some 10 or so minutes before and is one of those that plays around the fringes.

Having said that I agree with LT. Want to see more of him in a Tigers shirt this season, he is class for us.

I can't agree with anything suggesting Croft is a "work horse" and that he tackles & hits rucks more than he's given credit for.

Croft has had some good games in an England shirt but its mainly been when we have a bit of pack control and he is allowed to roam in the backline.

I'm not saying he's not good at what he does as he picks some great lines and can really rampage down the wing. His lineout work is also very strong albeit a little overrated at times imo.

I just prefer a bit of dog/grunt in my forwards and Ive seen enough to know this is not Crofts game (without the need for the media to tell me).

I believe he offers everything that Robshaw does plus more.

Jeff Winger,

Sorry i just cant see that mind...

Good god almighty. I thought we'd stopped the 'Croft's a luxury' threads when the Lions tour finished. I guess old habits die hard.
 
Robshaw had more turnovers than any other NH forward during the last set of AIs so I've never believed he has any breakdown problems. By the same token, I wouldn't pick him over Kvesic at 7 so to be honest, I think he might actually be more likely to get international game time at 6 over the next while. He can do the daisycutter stuff easily.

Where do people see Calum Clarke in the England Back-row equation? Putting the events of the last season or two behind us, is he actually good enough to retain his place in the EPS against guys like Croft, robshaw etc?

Nope Clark has no place in the England team. He's just not that good. Wood and Croft as much if not more on the lineout. Wood is as combative and Croft's skillset and speed leave Clark well behind even more so with some of the backrowers coming forward. Even as a lock he'll struggle as the likes of Attwood, Launchbury, Kitchener, Slater and Kruis all coming through strongly. That's without discussing his lack of morales.

What Sam said.

Sadly SL is very fond of him so we shall probably see the oxygen thief wasting an EPS place for a while yet.

Clark may not be good enough but he's liked by Lancaster enough

Clark has been an idiot but the lad is a talent. He's a bit different to what he have already as in he's extremely physical and has a real edge.

If he can harness that aggression he could be a top player imo.

Wood's all round game is better at 6 than Croft in my opinion. Croft brings a lot of good things to the team, but for me Wood is better and go on and be even better.

Horses for courses for me. Against an Australia or France I might be more inclined to go with Croft, against South Africa, NZ, Wales etc I would probably say Wood.

We also have Haskell, who is probably the most powerful of the 3

Some horses for courses selection within a well versed squad would be a good idea and something England haven't managed in recent years.

BamBam wrote:Horses for courses for me. Against an Australia or France I might be more inclined to go with Croft, against South Africa, NZ, Wales etc I would probably say Wood.

We also have Haskell, who is probably the most powerful of the 3

Glad you mention Haskell. I agree he still has a place

This is a presumption, but one i feel has some foundation, that when people discuss England's backrow it is inevitable to compare it to the 2003 backrow, which was arguably the best English back row ever. When discussing a 6 therefore, people are compared to Richard Hill. Not only was he one of the best players to ever don a rugby shirt, he was also really a 7 playing 6. So I do wonder when people discuss what they feel a 6 should be, they're actually after 7.

Croft is an outstanding player and should be, when fit, the England 6. For me the 2nd Lions test showed a lack of attack from the backrow and that was largely due to Croft's omission. This was only addressed when O'Brien and Faletau were brought in. Croft is a world class player and provides genuine options for England.

On the initial subject I feel quins were a better side when Wallace plays 7, but Robshaw is too good to drop and as has been mentioned here, his game won't change whether he's a 6 or a 7. For me Mo had a poor season and he should be used as a bench impact player, unless he can significantly recapture his form. I see no reason why Robshaw couldn't play 6 for Quins and 7 for England.

Selections need to fit the game plan to be actioned. Sometimes that calls for hard decisions as Croft. Robshaw, Wood cannot squeeze into two jerseys. With the rise of Kvesic and Fraser they may be competing for one jersey.

For Quins, well Robshaw will play whenever fit and available, and will pretty much play the same game whether at 6, 7 or 8. So the balance needs to be found around him. With Maurie looking of the pace, a back row with him and Easter alongside Robshaw will always be rather one paced. Problem is whenever I saw Wallace against decent opposition I was not overly impressed, but he is learning. Maybe Tom guest needs to feature more to bring a bit of pace to the back row?

LT what didn't impress? To me Wallace looked comfy against all opposition, yes he wasn't as good as your 7 but then Salvi was one of the best players across the league last season.

Remember also that Wallace was outstanding leading the side in the LV but only got first team game time as the side fell off the pace in the second half of the season.

I would like to think Glaws were decent oppos for Quins, but Wallace really stood out for me. One of the reasons we had such a free for all at Kingsholm was that Wallace was generating such quick ball. I genuinely feel in Wallace, Kvesic and Fraser we have 3 outstanding 7s for the future.

HongKongCherry wrote:I would like to think Glaws were decent oppos for Quins, but Wallace really stood out for me.  One of the reasons we had such a free for all at Kingsholm was that Wallace was generating such quick ball.  I genuinely feel in Wallace, Kvesic and Fraser we have 3 outstanding 7s for the future.  

Dont forget Welch and Saull back in the prem aswell    

I was going to mention them Geordie, I promise!

Both are good 7s, Welch probably the better. Can they make international level? I guess you'll know more than me on that one.

I think we might see the odd game with Welch at 6 and Saull at 7.

It'll be interesting to see how Saull goes. His promise was built up and since moving here he's been massively critical of Sarries methods and tactics etc.

Deano has said he will allow him to play the heads up rugby he craves...so he's got to put his money where his mouth is now...and do the business...only time will tell.

If he does switch to 6 let's see how he does there. He may be better than he is at 7 and may even be better than Wood or Croft. At this point it's all conjecture. Even from NEv it was conjecture

It might be my imagination, but didn't Robshaw start out as a number 6? I might be remembering it wrong, but his switch to open-side is relatively recent in career terms isn't it? The last three years or so?

When Skinner was captain, Robshaw was 6. Pretty sure he has won a player of the year in the premiership at 6

At 6 or 7 Robshaw brings quality, top top player.

Robshaw was Player of the Season in 2009 at 6

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think we might see the odd game with Welch at 6 and Saull at 7.

It'll be interesting to see how Saull goes. His promise was built up and since moving here he's been massively critical of Sarries methods and tactics etc.

Deano has said he will allow him to play the heads up rugby he craves...so he's got to put his money where his mouth is now...and do the business...only time will tell.

Geordie - that didn't actually occur to me but  6. Welch 7. Saull 8. Hogg is an amazeballs back row combo.

Potentially 6 could be a better fit for Chris as the only critiscm that you can make against him is pace, he's a little slow (but still pretty quick) compared to most 7's. At 6 that doesn't matter so much.

George Carlin wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think we might see the odd game with Welch at 6 and Saull at 7.

It'll be interesting to see how Saull goes. His promise was built up and since moving here he's been massively critical of Sarries methods and tactics etc.

Deano has said he will allow him to play the heads up rugby he craves...so he's got to put his money where his mouth is now...and do the business...only time will tell.

Geordie - that didn't actually occur to me but  6. Welch 7. Saull 8. Hogg is an amazeballs back row combo.

That's like us playing Robshaw, Wallace, Guest. An incredible attacking trio.

Wood or croft at 6 for me, should rotate them like care and youngs to keep them both on there toes, robshaw at 7 until one of the 7's in the fringes is playing soo well for club you cant ignore them then robshaw to provide injury cover. Robshaw doesn't inject enough pace for me at 7 and at 6 id take croft and wood, although wood is permanently managing a career threatening toe complication and croft is injury prone so 6 may be a long term option for robust robshaw. Would love wallace to step up he looks like the real deal, shame for robshaw, there is no doubt he should have gone to the RWC 2011 instead of flipping lewis moody, martin johnson was a total plank when it came to selection and it held robshaw back about 2 years when he was the best in the AP

I presume Robshaw will be moved to accommodate Wallace.

Robshaw is still currently England's best no 7. It's up to the likes of Ksevic,Wallace and Fraser to force Robshaw to move.

Backrow seems to be a ridiculously competitive area.

One of the forgotten backrowers is Jackson Wray. I am hoping he can progress more next season.

Other backrowers to look out for are Fearns (already made quite a hit already even before the season has started), Gibson for Leicester etc.

Geordiefalcon Saull is very critical of Saracens because the current management doesn't suit his style/personality. Plus he must have been disappointed with the really tough battle for a small number of spots. It's tough for him because he was a Saracens academy product - been at the club a long time but he didn't live up to the potential he had shown. Dogged by injuries too. Fraser leapfrogged Saull virtually coming from relative obscurity. I know the situation more than most.

6,000 posts for you, Beshocked.