Klitschko vs Povetkin signed

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Here's the link to the article

Personally I don't rate Povetkin, but he's highly ranked and it's as decent a fight as can be made in this HW day and age.

Klitschko by late KO - the standard format.

Thoughts?

winchester wrote:Is it possible to debate like adults on here and leave out the childish insults? I know the Klitschkos are hero worshipped on here and Fury is hated but there is no need for the pettyness simply because not everyone conforms to your opinion. The Klitschkos have had plenty of opportunities to fight Fury and they havent made any offers to him. If they were fighting top quality boxers all the time, maybe I could understand. But their excuses dont wash when they go round offering fights to sparring partners and second rate fighters. The Klitschko pair havent fought anyone remotely good since Haye, and even then it was only after he had struggled with Valuevs size and they felt more confident. The fact is they are willing to offer worse opponents fights but when it comes to more dangerous fighters like Fury or Wilder they dont. They start demanding they fight other guys hoping they will lose of be softened up while they fight inferior opponents. If they were so confident of beating Fury or Wilder they would be offering them the fight as they are much bigger names than the other sparring partners they fight.

You didn't answer the question as to why Fury pulled out of purse bids for a final eliminator and certain shot at Wlad if he were to win.

"The Klitschko pair havent fought anyone remotely good since Haye, and even then it was only after he had struggled with Valuevs size and they felt more confident."

Wlad had signed to fight Haye before the Valuev fight and it was Haye who pulled out so this is just nonsense.

"They start demanding they fight other guys hoping they will lose of be softened up while they fight inferior opponents."

This is the IBF demanding Fury and Pulev fight to earn a shot not Wlad making the demands. Wlad can defend against whoever the hell he likes in his voluntary defences, the clue is in the name. If you want to earn a shot go through the rankings like Fury was doing until someone good was in his way.

I'm still waiting for winny to answer Rowley's perfectly reasonable question on why Fury pulled out of a fight with Pulev knowing that his following fight would have been for a world title fight should he have won.

I'll say it again, Fury challenging Klitschko is akin to going to someones house to call them out knowing full well that he isnt home

Think the problem Winchester is most on here find the tenet that underpins your whole argument fundamentally flawed. Not the idea that the brothers are ducking the likes of Fury, Wilder and Price but the idea that those guys represent a better level of fighter than they have thus far been beating. Price was recently sparked by a guy the brothers have already beaten pretty handily so is clearly not the case with him.

Fury was scraped off the canvas last time out against an ageing cruiser and his best win is probably either Kevin Johnson or Chisora, a guy who loses pretty much every time he steps up in class. As for Wilder his best win is Audley bleeding Harrison so warrants no further discussion.

That is not to say the three have no ability or may not develop to become fine fighters (I have doubts but that is by the bye) however boxing is about what you do in the ring and I am sorry but none of those guys have done enough inside the ring to mark themselves out as guys the brothers need to fight. Have they done enough as some the brothers have fought, undoubtedly, but that is not the same thing. The point is until you have done something to distinguish yourself from the rest of the chasing pack you cannot really make any claims to be ducked.

Nicely put.   

The fact is the Klitschko brothers are clearly happy to offer fights to sparring partners to act as real opponents. If they are willing to do that then why cant they offer fights to better opponents. The last guy Klitschko fought was absolutely hopeless. So was the guy before that. Clearly he must have gone to those guys and offered them a match. If hes going to those guys offering them matches then theres no excuse for not offering matches to Fury or Wilder. That says they arent interested in fighting them, because if they were, they would have offered them a match instead of people like Chisora who Fury beat and sparring partners who cleary have no chance of winning.

As someone once put it No Mas, or to quote Duncan Bannantyne, I'm out.

For those that still have the energy you have my admiration/pity.

Good luck

winchester wrote:The fact is the Klitschko brothers are clearly happy to offer fights to sparring partners to act as real opponents. If they are willing to do that then why cant they offer fights to better opponents. The last guy Klitschko fought was absolutely hopeless. So was the guy before that. Clearly he must have gone to those guys and offered them a match. If hes going to those guys offering them matches then theres no excuse for not offering matches to Fury or Wilder. That says they arent interested in fighting them, because if they were, they would have offered them a match instead of people like Chisora who Fury beat and sparring partners who cleary have no chance of winning.

So why did Fury pull out of the Pulev fight?

He is going to fight Haye which is a huge fight and far bigger than Pulev. MAssive fight for the division.

Why wont the Klitschkos offer him a match?

winchester wrote:The fact is the Klitschko brothers are clearly happy to offer fights to sparring partners to act as real opponents. If they are willing to do that then why cant they offer fights to better opponents. The last guy Klitschko fought was absolutely hopeless. So was the guy before that. Clearly he must have gone to those guys and offered them a match. If hes going to those guys offering them matches then theres no excuse for not offering matches to Fury or Wilder. That says they arent interested in fighting them, because if they were, they would have offered them a match instead of people like Chisora who Fury beat and sparring partners who cleary have no chance of winning.

I disagree a little although I understand where you are coming from. For me Wilder, Fury and co are the ones not really pushing for a fight right now. Only David Haye wanted to actively defeat the brothers and end their reign but the others seem to be happy to play the waiting game as thr K-brothers are pushing on in age. It seems they are not interested in becoming yet another Klitschko victim and would rather pick up the crown when they retire rather then bask in the glory of being the fighter who eventually beat them into retirement.

Rowley wrote:As someone once put it No Mas, or to quote Duncan Bannantyne, I'm out.

For those that still have the energy you have my admiration/pity.

Good luck

The quote was, translated into English, i don't want to fight this clown any more. Strangely apt in this case

winchester wrote:He is going to fight Haye which is a huge fight and far bigger than Pulev. MAssive fight for the division.

Why wont the Klitschkos offer him a match?

This is the fight that was 99% made 4 weeks ago and would be finalised by the end of June, so long as Fury gets 80% of the money as he has never been in ppv fight before but is 1000% up for this fight. That the one?

winchester wrote:Is it possible to debate like adults on here and leave out the childish insults? I know the Klitschkos are hero worshipped on here and Fury is hated but there is no need for the pettyness simply because not everyone conforms to your opinion. The Klitschkos have had plenty of opportunities to fight Fury and they havent made any offers to him. If they were fighting top quality boxers all the time, maybe I could understand. But their excuses dont wash when they go round offering fights to sparring partners and second rate fighters. The Klitschko pair havent fought anyone remotely good since Haye, and even then it was only after he had struggled with Valuevs size and they felt more confident. The fact is they are willing to offer worse opponents fights but when it comes to more dangerous fighters like Fury or Wilder they dont. They start demanding they fight other guys hoping they will lose of be softened up while they fight inferior opponents. If they were so confident of beating Fury or Wilder they would be offering them the fight as they are much bigger names than the other sparring partners they fight.

So, Bumchester, you still cannot answer the question Rowley and I put to you?

What's that about debating like adults...??

Why dont you try cutting out the insults and behaving like an adult?

Maybe the Tv companies play a part n their decisions not to offer a voluntary defence to Wilder, Price or Fury. They know they can carry a sparring partner through 5 or 6 rounds of adverts but I think they'd find it really difficult not to knock the 3 boxers mentioned out a lot earlier which would cost them money.

Maybe a ludicrous spin on things but I thought I'd share it.

RanjitPatel wrote:Maybe the Tv companies play a part n their decisions not to offer a voluntary defence to Wilder, Price or Fury. They know they can carry a sparring partner through 5 or 6 rounds of adverts but I think they'd find it really difficult not to knock the 3 boxers mentioned out a lot earlier which would cost them money.

Maybe a ludicrous spin on things but I thought I'd share it.

Ranjit, please tell me that this is tongue in cheek, as suggested by "ludicrous spin". I wouldn't want someone taking this and regurgitating it as fact in a weeks time!!

winchester wrote:Why dont you try cutting out the insults and behaving like an adult?

Why don't you try constructing an argument better than your average 5 year old?

As a starting point, try finding a way to support anything you say. You're either a WUM or a special, your choice which way you want to act.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

winchester wrote:Why dont you try cutting out the insults and behaving like an adult?

Why don't you try constructing an argument better than your average 5 year old?

As a starting point, try finding a way to support anything you say.  You're either a WUM or a special, your choice which way you want to act.

Oh, and you still haven't answered the question.....

I think the reasons for Fury turning down purse bids with Pulev will only become apparent when he announces his next opponent. If it ends up being Haye and the fight gets made into an eliminator then its difficult to fault it. If it ends up being a third rater.....

Regarding the Klitschkos ducking Fury, Price, Wilder. I dont buy it. Price is coming off a loss to a guy that Wlad easily beat twice so his credentials are non existant. Wilder shouldnt even be in the equation.His opposition tells you all you need to know about his current title ambitions. Fury is the only guy that might vaguely be in contention for a shot.

I think there is truth to the point that the Klitschkos have fought opponents less deserving or inferior to the likes of Price, Wilder or Fury. Certainly I would not say Mormeck, Charr, Wach or Pianeta are any better and most likely are worse. The Pianeta and Mormeck fights in particular were pretty sorry affairs. However I think there is an explanation for these fights outside of the Klitschkos ducking fighters. Firstly the division is a duopoly and Wlad in particular is generally active as a fighter. You have about 4 challengers being beaten every year for the last 5 years. As a result, its natural that there will be underqualified challengers from time to time as the division just isnt, and never has been able to produce that level of genuine challengers that regularly. I would say the simplest reason that Pianta, Wach etc have been given shots and Price/Fury/Wilder havent is that the former have been willing to take them and the latter have not. Its really only in the last 12 months Fury could be considered anything like a viable challenger so lets not say the Klitschkos have been obliged to fight him for years.

When you look at the Klitschkos track record of fighting mandatory obligation and taking on the genuine challenges in the division its pretty hard to fault. Occasionally there are underqualified opponents even by todays standards but Wlads last fight was little more than a keep busy fight with a precursor to his next fight which is basically about as good as one can ask for against the most qualified challenger out there in his own back yard. So theres practically no merit to the argument that they avoid people. Fury, Price and Wilder are largely prospects that have something to lose and do not have enough experience to take on the Klitschkos. Their management dont want the fights because they would prefer to wait. The likes of Wach or Pianeta do not have the same potential or backing so they cant afford to turn down the opportunity to fight for a title. Fury, Price and Wilder can afford to wait.

manos de piedra wrote:
I think there is truth to the point that the Klitschkos have fought opponents less deserving or inferior to the likes of Price, Wilder or Fury. Certainly I would not say Mormeck, Charr, Wach or Pianeta are any better and most likely are worse.

I would even give Wach a decent chance of beating Fury, Price and Wilder. He's a big unit who has the chin to absorb their best shots and the power to hurt them.
Obviously, to suggest the K's are ducking those guys is ridiculous as saying that Ward is ducking DeGale.
Dominant champions being accused of ducking unproven, up and comers whose management have pretty much admitted aren't even ready for a title shot.

Yeah but why have they not offered them fights? Clearly it is because they are ducking them. Likewise to the best of my knowledge Floyd has not offered Kell Brook a fight, proof positive that Floyd is a ducker.

I've not been offered fights either Rowley, means everyone who hasn't offered me a fight is ducking me.

I think what is fundementally causing the issue is the firstly that opinion on the Klitschkos ability is disputed and secondly that their opposition has included sub rate fighters.
 
I think its clear that the Klitschkos have proven themselves to be ahead of the competition in the last 5 years or so. But some seem to think that they are merely part of the bunch and not much better than Fury or Price. If one believes this then they might be tempted to believe the Klitschkos are ducking Fury or Wilder. (Some people believe they ducked Valuev for example). When you look at their track record of how they operate I cant really see an argument for it but nonetheless its an opinion some hold.
 
The other issue is the opposition. If Ward defended his title against Paul Smith for example, then it gives some an argument to say he is ducking De Gale or Groves, even though they might not want the fight. The problem the Klitschkos have is that they are in a limited division and have been extremelly long reigning so innevetiabely there will be some poor challengers if they intend on staying active. I just thing its wrong to assume that this means they are ducking anyone and its not that difficult to look at their record and see that they fight the top challengers in addition to the odd dud opponent in keep busy fights. Basically I think there is an easy explanation for it while making a case for the ducking Fury or Wilder is difficult to engineer. From what I have read it seems to be based entirely on the fact that occassionally they fight dud fighters in order to stay active when options are limited.

Guys, stop feeding the troll.

Not a single world champion has ever offered me a shot.

I am the most avoided fighter in boxing history

Sam Langford - I feel your pain!

Who wants a fight?

Nobody?

Duckers.

Now you sound like Mackem......

TopHat24/7 wrote:Now you sound like Mackem......

What when he is "drunk"?

Mackem beat me to best newcomer.

Sucks dirty bum that lad.

I dont buy the excuses made for the Klitschko brothers about why they have not been offering fights to boxers like Wilder and Fury. If they are willing to offer a fight to Chisora but they dont offer one to Fury then what does that say? They are old and conservative. I think they want to stay at the top as long as they can instead of risking taking on younger, bigger and stronger fighters. Soon enough fighters like Wilder, Fury and Price will have taken over with or without the Klitschkos. I think they will figure out that they need to start their own rivalries and matches rather than wait around hoping the Klitschkos offer them a match or being told they must fight all these other oponents while the Klitschkos offer matches to worse fighters. That is why I think Fury is targetting Haye and the fight will happen which will be a major one.

What excuses Bumchester?

Please list some of these excuses they've made.

As at the moment it's only you, Bumchester, that's making any excuses and they're for your homeboy Fury.

Tophat, please refrain from name calling. As a moderator it is beneath you. No matter the perceived provocation.

Winchester states that excuses made for the brothers, not by. He is therefore choosing to see facts presented here such as neither brother ducking a mandatory, that Price was knocked out by a person Wlad beat convincingly not 18 months ago, Fury pulling out of a fight which would have made him the mandatory and Wilder never fighting anyone even remotely close to the top ten as excuses. With that level of blinkedness, you will never make a point that he will acknowledge as correct on this subject.

Sorry BHB, I get baited by these WUM's too easily....

Fight may be off - Povetkin, Says He Parted Ways With Hryunov, Hryunov put the fight on, which he won with a 23 mil bid.

http://www.boxingscene.com/povetkin-drops-bomb-says-he-parted-ways-with-hryunov--67487