England vs New Zealand, 2nd test at Headingly

First topic message reminder :

Thread for the build up & match


New from the NZ camp is that BJ Watling's knee has ruled him out, meaning he'll join Bruce Martin on the sidelones. Brendon McCullum will keep wicket, while Martin Guptill will return to the side and bat #6.

Daniel Vettori trained well yesterday, so is expected to play in place of Martin

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8706188/Watling-ruled-out-Vettori-likely-for-second-test
Likely NZ XI:
Fulton, Rutherford, Williamson, Taylor, Brownlee, Guptill, McCullum, Vettori or Bracewell, Southee, Wagner, Boult

For me yes.

Wrong for my philospohy of cricket. We are a good team..


Do you think Aus would have done what we did in there dominating period?

These lads know only one way to play.. T20 bosh. Trying to win it from here these two. 50 off 35 already.

And another brainless Southee bash ends.

Does he know he is trying to save a test match?

Brilliant for t20 and maybe odi late in the innings but a nonsense to play that way here.

Swann with the 5er!!

MOTM lads?

Root is my pick , just over swanny

Couldn't last...two to go. Five for Swann

Well played Swann.

And the rain hits.



yawwnnn

I've no issue with the likes of Southee having a swing late on - he's just as likely to get out prodding forward to Swann as he is trying to mow one over cow corner.

8 down and play suspended again. I thought though the forecast was for the weather to improve (a little) later, so the 3/4 hour and two wickets before lunch are a bonus.

Good figures by Swanny again. Judging by the weather maps, this will be a lengthy stoppage of play.

So is rain going to have the final say ? Surely only need to get back on for a few overs to finish it but I am told it was coming down pretty hard over lunchtime...

Got until 6.30 I guess. Stand by with the mops

Well, it was touch and go for a while with the weather, but it looks like we'll get enough play to wrap things up.

Great bowling from Swanny...another 5-for in the bag. Nice contribution from Broad, getting rid of the belligerent Southee.

Good discussion this morning on Talksport about Australia playing two left armers, and how that gives Swanny as many wickets as he wants this summer. Never gave it much thought until Dominic Cork was talking about it, but now that I think about it, it really does play into our hands. Swanny could get to 250 test wickets this summer (he's on 221 now, I think).

It is a good point Azzy.

And it is certainly beneficial to Swann, who seems to have recovered brilliantly from his elbow surgery, and is bowling really well!

Think you play your best attack though if you are Australia. Starc will probably be the only leftie to play along with Pattinson and Siddle. Can't be thinking too much about England, just have to pick the side you think has the best chance of winning!

Which is why Ponting was called

First off, pleasantly amazed that there has been any cricket today. Non stop rain in my neck of the woods today.

Mike has probably captured well the thinking behind not enforcing the follow on these days. It would be interesting to see some stats as to whether teams made to follow on do generally bat a lot better second time round. I don't know - that's not a polite way of saying Mike is wrong, just me saying I genuinely don't know.

I just feel that not enforcing the follow on makes the weather and time more of a factor than it need be. Mad for Chelsea says it ensured we didn't lose - agreed but isn't that an old fashioned approach to Test cricket?!Point probably exhausted.

Alfie in particular - I did try to show earlier that I thought some of the vitriol being directed Cook's way was unnecessary and inappropriate even though I felt he had made the wrong decision. I can't agree with you, Alfie, that the result alone will determine whether he got it "right". Lots of things shape the result and so it can only be rarely claimed that the victorious captain got everything spot on. I accept Mike's use of "debateable" here.

Apologies if I missed it but I don't believe anyone challenged my view that in this Test New Zealand were exceedingly unlikely to skittle us on the last day with just one part-time spinner. I do feel that should have gone into Cook's reasoning.

Ah well, a game of differing opinions which is part of its eternal fascination.

Was he thinking two left handers Azzy?

Looks like our negative tactics have succumbed us to a draw.

Stupid Rain

Good point regardng the left arm over bowlers - remember we are talking about a game at Headingley, which is not noted as a spin-friendly pitch (although it has changed a bit from the really slow and low seamer of a few years ago), and Swann has been turning it square out of the footmarks from the second day of play.

My impression, of the little I've seen of the match, is that Swann is bowling quite flat and quickly (by his normal standards), but getting a lot of work on the ball so that it can really jump from the rough. Whatever he is doing, it seems to be working really well.

Going to resume at 3.

Hey , guildford...I am happy to concur in "debateable" re all the decisions in the match...

My reference to Cook being proved "right" was actually slightly tongue in cheek ...a bit of a winners can claim the high ground and everyone else can sod off , said with a wink...obviously a captain can get lucky or unlucky regardless of the essential soundness of his choice. However the associated point that it is quite impossible to know whether an alternative course would have been better or worse is surely incontestable

To be honest I am a little surprised this decision making has generated so much robust argument...perhaps a function of a match somewhat lacking in excitement and a lot of time lost to weather...To be honest I never thought the follow on decision in this match was likely to be crucial as I expected England to win either way , as long as they didn't get washed away...we are still waiting on that !

Not me...have to work tomorrow. Hope the rain relents some time this afternoon. Cheers.

alfie

I think if England get the win Cook / Flower's decisions regarding the follow-on and declaration will be spun as being correct - gave our batsmen another chance to play themselves into some form and still win the match. Also, another innings worth of the NZ left arm seamers disrupting the surface of the wicket where Swann wants to bowl, so making him a bigger threat in the 4th innnigs than he would have been in the 3rd.

Also, remember the series context - we played NZ into a position where they had no chance of winning, whereas if we'd asked them to follow on or dangled a carrot for their run chase there was the slight possibility of defeat and so not taking the series.

Of course, there's also the possibility that had we enforced the follow-on, NZ would have been all out for 200 by the middle of yesterday and we'd have knocked off the required 30-50 runs just after tea.

The latter being the more likely.

Oh, and play has restarted as scheduled at 3.00, although still iffy conditions.

I don't think we disagree , dummy...you could make a decent case for either choice...I am fine with the way Cook has handled things , whatever happens.

OK , decided to watch for a bit longer seeing they have resumed...hope they can get these two pretty swiftly.

No disagreements there, Alfie.

Btw, looking forward to seeing Ponting play for Surrey at Guildford next week. Hadn't better rain then!

Great catch by Ian Bell

Ten for Swann now...

Ok then 1 wicket to go..

Swan

Luv ya!!

I know you would have followed on..

And to think they left Swann out last year at Headingley !

Guess it was a long time since the days when Underwood - and even Edmonds on debut - had rather good figures here. People forget...

Few less shots from Boult and Wagner than in the first innings

Sky still looks rather gloomy...like to see Finn with a full ball , they'll never lay a bat on those lifting deliveries.

superb over from Finn, beats the bat four times, lovely rhythm but can't quite find the edge; maybe think about slipping in a yorker?

also might be worth getting pace on to Boult who to me looks much more comfortable against the spinner than he ever has done against the quicker stuff. Broad to have a go at the enforcer stuff?

I feel like we have tortured NZ abit in this test match..



There batters arnt even running any more!!

Wagner turning down the single there, Boult doesn't fancy Finn obviously. Finn around the wicket. edged! just short of Cook!

England mustn't rush here...once you start panicking about time left and hurrying too much you waste more balls than threaten.
Even Swann seemed a bit hurried last over.

Edge then but didn't carry...

alfie wrote:England mustn't rush here...once you start panicking about time left and hurrying too much you waste more balls than threaten.
Even Swann seemed a bit hurried last over.

Edge then but didn't carry...

yeah just get the feeling Swann is rushing things a little to Boult here, I'd give Broad or Anderson a go to the n°11...

Swann a bit too full I think ? MFC might have a point about getting a pace man on to Boult.

Can always slip Swann back the other end...

Last wicket pair, so in normal circumstances you'd say it's only a matter of time before they make a mistake (especially with a 6 man slip corden for Finn and 5 around the bat for Swann) and no need to try to bowl them a magic ball. The only pressure on the bowlers is the likelihood of being off for bad weather again.

And Finn isn't making Wagner play enough...come on Cookie , change please...

yep, it's Anderson onto Boult. Good move I feel this, could just be a change of ends for Swann to get him on to Wagner as well?

Anderson back to attack Boult...sound idea I think.

yup

Didn't take long ...Jimmy does the trick

So well done Cook & co

Arguments about follow ons are now academic , though they'll probably continue...

Swann for Man of Match ? Be tough on Root , but I reckon he edges it ...won't quarrel with a decision for the local boy though.

'night all.

good move by Cook then to get Anderson on and well done Anderson for getting the edge. We can (and probably will) debate England's tactics for a long time, but on the field they've had a very good Test match, comfortably outplaying New Zealand. I'd give Swann MOM, how good it is to have him back

Cook 100% made the right decision, whoever said we declared to early is pretty stupid IMO.

Ill make one change for the Ashes, King KP back in for Compton. But will KP be fit? Even if he isn't fit i would still remove Compton he has really let me down.

I would say Finn has done enough to be chosen ahead of Bresnan.

NickisBHAFC wrote:

Cook 100% made the right decision, whoever said we declared to early is pretty stupid IMO

Ill make one change for the Ashes, King KP back in for Compton. But will KP be fit? Even if he isn't fit i would still remove Compton he has really let me down.

I would say Finn has done enough to be chosen ahead of Bresnan.

Dreary me.

Three candidates for MOTM:
Root for the first innings 100, which set up the match
Swann for match-winning bowling: 4 for 42 first innings and 6 for 90 second up
Cook for his second innings century, putting the match out of sight.

I think Swann has to get it because he performed excellently in both innings.

Tactics were conservative, maybe to the detriment of the excitement of the game, but we still won and won well, with the only worry being the possibility of bad weather today scuppering the winning position we'd established.

We got a bit lucky with the weather in truth and lets be honest, Cooks/Flower's tactics were rather negative, although proved right.