Issues in golf- slow play

First topic message reminder :

Hi golf fans,

following on from some comments on other threads I thought it would be interesting to discuss some of the issues affecting our beloved game, the reasons for these issues and possible solutions.

Firstly and probably the main issue in golf today is the one of slow play. We all know the players with the bad reputations in relation to this. The current system of bad times and putting players on the clock doesnt seem to be working, so what effective measures can be taken?

Is it feasable to have a referee with every group who will get on players cases when they start dawdling? Or how about more readily enforced penalty strokes?

There's no pleasing some people. I thought my post was trying to show that I didn't like slow play but that I could live with it - live and let live and all that.

Perhaps my post was just too long for people with attention spans of a gnat - possibly the same people who want to play 18 holes in under 3 hours. I'll stick to shorter replies in future

Davie, jpx likes to stir the pot. remember this is the same guy who thought Tiger Woods not being disqualified from the Masters wasnt a sad day for golf.

No Davie, I didn't mean to say I found your post too long, more that it was well......boring as hell. I just laugh at how you lot all claim to be whiter than white when it comes to rules, slow play etc etc, when you're probably all guilty, maybe through ignorance but still guitly.

Incont, "sad day for golf"............hahahahahahaha!!

Oh good one JPX. Funny guy. Not too long, just boring? Perhaps I was right about the attention span of a gnat. If it took you 30 seconds to read it and you got bored, move on. If it took more than 30 seconds out of your life I perhaps was wrong. More the intelligence if a gnat

If you are including me in the "you lot" then perhaps you can explain where I am guilty in terms of either slow play or rules knowledge.

On the other and, you probably can't as you will have been distracted by shiny things by now

Calm down dear.

I just read these threads and have to laugh at how perfect you all claim to be, well I can tell you, you are all liars, you will all have broken a rule of golf at some point, probably unknowingly, but as you all say about Tiger, ignorance is no excuse. Likewise, slow play, players will rarely have the balls to tell you to get a move on.

JPX - if you are addressing all the people who have posted on this thread then say so. You seem to be replying to me and TBH, though I shouldn't, I'm taking it personally, which is why I keep replying to you.

If you thing I have a problem, either with rules or slow play, then say so - with something to back it up. If not, then say that too.

I'm quite sure I have unwittingly broken rules at some points - I'm sure we all have - I can agree with that much. Your posts just seem too personal and I take exception to that.

I don't like rushing, and I don't like people who want to be finished as soon as they started, but I could easily play a 2-ball in 3 hours if the course was clear, and a 3-ball in about 3 hours 20 or so. Fact is that never happens because of others.

I'm no great rules expert either but experience has shown me I know more that many people I play with. Is that OK?

Probably not - anything more than 2 lines obviously bores you

Of course we don't all know the rules, that's why we ought to educate ourselves and carry rulebook on the course. I recently highlighted the R&A's rules app, with quiz. I've tried it quite regularly and am yet to score 10/10 so clearly room for improvement. Not exactly sure where I and everyone else appear to be imparting falsehoods though to be honest...I smell a wum

Jpx, you seem like the type of guy who thinks its ok to wear jeans on the golf course

Evening barragan. At last, someone with the balls to admit they're not perfect! Took some time but we got there.

My issue is that we have had all the recent hooha with rules decisions lately; Guan slow play, Tiger's drop penalty and so on. All the fall out threads that follow just strike me as a bit, well, hypocrytical by most if not all of the regulars on the golf board. As I said, you have all broken a rule at some point, and you have all been guilty of slow play at least once, maybe not enough to warrant a penalty, but nevertheless, still guilty.

Here's a few nuggets I've read recently:

"I tend to play to them (rules of golf) all the time, it's the best way to know you have scored a true round."
Really? You know every single rule there is??

(on Tigers drop) "from what I understand he did get the designated penalty for the incorrect drop though he did not for the fact he signed an incorrect scorecard. which is usually a dq." and "Tiger signed for the wrong score, therefore by the law of the game should have been disqualified for this infraction and nothing else."
So when you realise you have unknowingly broken the rules during a comp, you will volunteer a dq for signing an incorrect scorecard, yes?

"bizarrely naive of him and his caddie not to get it checked before putting a ball in play"
So let me understand this, you're suggesting every time a pro golfer has to drop they call for a referee and check they are following the rules yes? That will help slow play no end.

"there should be a strict shot-clock for the pros like in Basketball. take the subjectivity of the rules out of it as much as possible"


"I do get a little annoyed with some people who seem to hate the game so much that they want to be finished almost as soon as they've started"
So playing too quick is an issue too? Oh we really can't win!

.......and so it goes on and on. Double standards.

TO give credit where its due Navyblueshorts comment........"We all know slow players and some us may even be slow although we won't admit it." .....is exactly right.

There you go, that's what gets my goat, no problem with points raised, just don't claim to be innocent 100% of the time, cause you're not and you know it.

...and by the way, I was never personal, just said your post was boring, but on the other hand I have been called a gnat, a wum, and the type of person who advocates wearing jeans on a golf course (whoever that type of person is), double standards again.

Davie, I was just gaining respect for you, until your final sentence. Anyway, I've bored myself now.....

what's wrong with wearing jeans on the golf course? apart from probably being uncomfortable I don't see the hang up on the dress code.

regarding slow play. people try to make the game harder by making courses longer then logically it will take longer to play. I would guess seve wasn't quick making his decisions on all those crazy shots I hear about.

play to whatever rules you want. ball lost or have to drop from a bush or tree we just give yourself a shot. but each to their own I have never played a competitive competition.

JPX,
Not to wish to get involved in all of this, but:
As far as player and/or caddie asking for an official's ruling, many pros do this as a matter of course, not just to make 200% sure, but to slow them down and recompose after something's gone seriously awry. A lot of these guys are typically fast players, exhibit A being Bubba Watson.

The key issue to most on the Woods and Guan rulings was that Augusta National fails to send out walking rules officials, which is what all other Majors do. Such action could have mitigated controversy in each case.

Davie certainly doesn't need anyone holding his coat during a punch-up, but don't you think he was merely trying to put the whole subject in context? His average time for each type of group on course sounds very respectable to me, and I'm a fast player.

Me? I'm kinda like Beninho, always ask fellow players on a ruling or, if in competition, always ensure I know local rules prior to teeing off.

Apologies if you're bored with all this drivel . . . . . .

I think there is an important difference between occassionally playing slow and being a slow player. There are players who just seem to dawdle along, which at the average club is not an issue as long as they let others play through.

However, in the professional world, sponsor's money, people's livelyhoods and the logistics of running an event attracting big crowds are involved so it's a different matter.

I think there's also a big difference between an amateur unwittingly breaking a rule and a professional doing so - it's their job to know the rules, and having rules officials on hand just allows them to duck that.

Bob,
Re your last paragraph:
Very true, but in that case the tournament concerned should apply the rules of golf itself and, in the case of the 2013 Masters, it conspicuously failed to do so.

Inconsistent!

Okay okay I get it, I'm Mr Unpopular on the golf boards because I speak my mind and I'm not afraid to rock the apple cart. I will leave in peace and the golf board will be even more quiet, as you wish.

Bob, you're quite right it is a big difference, the point I raised was that all the saints on here who happily slate Woods and co, claim they have never broken the rules, is complete rubbish.

Kwini, I know players use the officials to their advantage, but what was suggested was that they must ask for an official every time....not a good idea, not for viewers anyway.

Tada!

JPX,
The notion that some players "ask for an official every time" was Bubba Watson's, not mine. Just reporting.

Don't actually think anyone on here claimed "they have never broken the rules" . . . . . .

Here's a story I picked up yesterday about some golfers known to me, one of them is a pal. Interestingly he has not given me the story - yet!
8 of them away playing top end courses in Northern Ireland.
Playing one using buggies the first fourball arrived on 18th green to be greeted by an official, and in front of a packed patio, with an unmistakeable rollicking for slow play.
Even these nice but dims were contrite and slunk to a corner of the patio to await the next fourball, some way behind them!
One buggy driving up 18 dropped of a golfer to play his ball and proceeded forward into the setting sun, which hampered vision to the extent that he drove straight into a bunker, and turned the buggy on its side!
All 8 were "encouraged" by the patio occupants to get it sorted, which eventually they did!
Now we are after a photo, which we know exists, and have a caption competition running. Current leader in the clubhouse is "shall we have a drink here or go somewhere else?" "Maybe the airport!"

So the R and A and USGA have revised some rules and have now decided that under 27-2a/1.5 you can walk up to 50 yards in front of where you played your last shot before you forgo the right to hit a provisional.

I have posted this in a slow play article as it seems the decision to play a provisional can have a big impact on slow play as players are not trudging miles back to tee's after a ball cannot be found. Not sure this new rule will help players get into the mindset of hitting a provisional as soon as there is doubt about finding their ball.

I just read this. I'm not sure whether it will help or hinder, because (in the majority of cases) it is longer shots that you lose or may go ob, so walking 50 yards may not help very much.

My own view is that a player must decide immediately whether or not to play a provisional. From the tee, he should play the provisional when the other players have hit, or from the fairway he should go immediately, before any other player hits.

It's simple. If you are in doubt, hit a provisional.

Couldn't agree more, but the rules will allow someone to walk 100 yards before playing a provisional. Seems like another reason not to decide there and then to play a provisional, and slow the game down.

I always do, because I would be too embarrassed to walk back to the tee, and it would also put me off my game.

The rule should have been changed so that you could not go back if your ball was lost, and you did not play a provisional at the time. Instant DQ as you would be unable to continue the round.

NOt a bad idea Mac. You know when your ball is in danger of being lost.

Big problem I see is people not watching where their ball goes and they are looking sometimes 100 yard from where it actually is.

have you never had an 'unexplainable' lost ball mac? you know, the one that looks absoulutely perfect but is never to be seen again. your suggestion would be fine in stableford/matchplay etc, but would be an utter mess in strokeplay.

i dont understand this at all. does it make a difference?
its not like people currently walk 60 yards and then decide to go back and hit a provisional do they?

i often take advantage of the provisional ruling . ie if i hit a bad drive on the first or second hole i often hit a provisional even though i might be 99% sure ill find the first. the main reason ill hit the provisional is to correct any previous mistakes rather than as a backup ball. Some people might think its a bit unsporting now that i think about it!

As super says, doubt = hit a provisional. You do get mysteries, and more often than not I can't be bothered going back I'll just moan and nr. Gives you something to whinge about in the clubhouse!

Is usually longer shots so not sure 50 yards is any use, does't stop you going the 200+ yards finding you have actually lost it and then trudging back if you so desire?

Obviously it couldn't be as harsh as that ban, but as I have said before the rules could be used as a method to insensitivize a better pace of play. The new provisional rule does not do this.

i agree

How are they going to measure 50 yards? "Oops! I have walked 50 yards and 3 inches"

HD slow mo replay

if in doubt, measure 50 club lengths with a 9 iron?

Harrington was once known for easily walking 80-100 yards to inspect the green before hitting his approach wedge. Don't know if he still does it.

And Jack Nicklaus was an incredibly slow player.

But professionals play a different game indeed and I can understand (to a degree) why they take so long in some situations.

Us weekend warriors? Play ready golf, hit provisionals (as Super suggests), and don't ask me to mark my ball when you have a 50+ yard approach shot to the green. Chances of you hitting my ball are less than you holing out.

pedro wrote:Harrington was once known for easily walking 80-100 yards to inspect the green before hitting his approach wedge. Don't know if he still does it.

He does............it's horrendous.