Regional Rugby Wales to hold 4pm press conference

First topic message reminder :

As the title says, hope its something positive. It probabaly won't be

2nd time, whilst I agree the Wru don't really think too far outside of the Cardiff city limits, I believe Cap is being bought so they can finish off the MS properly and get more cowboy hats in there.

Thanks for informative reply

2ndtimeround wrote:At least that small group of money men are willing to use their own money in very significant amounts.
Roger Lewis wants to take full control of the regions without any form of compensation for the current owners of the clubs.
Once he achieves this it wont only be the Valleys without a region the only place in Wales with a truly competetive region will be Cardiff as it is where he will centralise all the assets.

Peter Thomas has certainly contributed many millions over the years, but unfortunately it has added to the overall debt of Cardiff RFC. I'm hoping he never asks to be paid back.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:2nd time, whilst I agree the Wru don't really think too far outside of the Cardiff city limits, I believe Cap is being bought so they can finish off the MS properly and get more cowboy hats in there.

I wish we knew exactly why the WRU are interested in purchasing CAP and I do wonder if Peter Thomas has something to do with it since it might be a way for him to get his Cardiff cash back.
The WRU did make an initial derisory offer which understandably was turned down by CAC. That was a while ago when the bloos were still at CCS and i'm not sure what has happened since. It's all very blurry infact, but I seem to remember it was estimated that it would cost around £30m to amend Glanmor's gap alone. Don't know if that figure included the cost of purchasing CAP, at least £10m, and then there's the cost of building a new stadium. The mind boggles.

Allty wrote:Why shouldn't the WRU control Welsh rugby.

Do you honestly think that RL makes these decisions unilaterally or do you think discussion with his executive takes place.

There's a difference between the executive and the full board. If Roger Lewis had the backing of the full board in this standoff, don't you think he'd be mentioning that at every possible opportunity? The man doesn't usually need much of an excuse. As it is, he / the executive have been communicating through press release, which stikes me as odd.

I appreciate that

My point remains Lewis does not make these decisions on his own.

The future of Welsh rugby is far more important than the ego's of a very small group of rich men.

If our star players leave Welsh international rugby will still survive I doubt if the regions will.

Allty wrote:The future of Welsh rugby is far more important than the ego's of a very small group of rich men.

If our star players leave Welsh international rugby will still survive I doubt if the regions will.

And what about the clubs in all this? It's not as though everyone bar the four regions is happy with the current regime.

Allty wrote:I appreciate that

My point remains Lewis does not make these decisions on his own.

The future of Welsh rugby is far more important than the ego's of a very small group of rich men.

If our star players leave Welsh international rugby will still survive I doubt if the regions will.

Good luck getting all the preparation time and player development etc the egos of that small group of rich men provide Team Wales gratis when they are all playing for English and French clubs. Spare a thought for those of us who are genuine fans of the game and would like to watch it a bit more often than two months a year will you, after all we subsidise your cowboy-hatted days out on the lash every February.

Stone Motif wrote:

Allty wrote:I appreciate that

My point remains Lewis does not make these decisions on his own.

The future of Welsh rugby is far more important than the ego's of a very small group of rich men.

If our star players leave Welsh international rugby will still survive I doubt if the regions will.

Good luck getting all the preparation time and player development etc the egos of that small group of rich men provide Team Wales gratis when they are all playing for English and French clubs. Spare a thought for those of us who are genuine fans of the game and would like to watch it a bit more often than two months a year will you, after all we subsidise your cowboy-hatted days out on the lash every February.

Do you honestly think that the money men developed all of the players or could it have been the academies add to that the import of SH players whose development took place in far away lands. The millions wasted on these imports should have been spent on quality coaches

If the MM would have been on the ball or would have know much about player development they would not have had Lyn Jones or Dai Young anywhere near the regional set up.

Not sure why you think I have anything to do with the Cowboy hats or I am less of a supporter than you.

PS The future of Welsh rugby starts way below the Pro Game

Academies are paid for by the regions, only a minority comes from the WRU. The SH players is a feeble argument as it contributes to player development and they are likely cheaper than Welsh squad fodder thanks to the participation agreement. I mentioned your sparkly cowboy hat as those who are blindly supporting the WRU in their efforts to dismantle pro rugby in Wales below the national team almost certainly wear one each February and think everything is ok as we've beaten England. Or else they are part of the 'disenfranchised' clique who wouldn't support a region if RRW were to build a new stadium in their back yards.

So is it your opinion that Roger Lewis is responsible for

1.. the Cowboy hats

2.. The Regions failures

3.. The lack of HK success

4.. The payment of millions over 10 years to SH players

5.. The star players leaving for sunnier climes

6 .. Allowing only genuine fans to support regions

7.. Not looking after the amateur game

8.. Wanting to reward failure on a yearly basis

9.. Everything else that is wrong with Welsh rugby

Altty.
Just curious but is Roger Lewis an aquintance of yours?

Far from it. I actually think he has played to a very poor game plan.

Unfortunately / Fortunately depending on ones personal views the regions don't even have a plan

I simply believe that in any pro sport its sink or swim and it should be without constant begging.

My biggest gripe is the 10 years of massive investment in SH players which has achieved little.

These millions would have been far better invested in our own youth and long term development plans including development of coaches even bringing in quality coaching teams for the regions as opposed to the "Jobs for the boys"

Yes, he is responsible. The regions have quite clearly stated this is only about more money if they are not allowed the freedom to generate greater revenue on their own. That is impossible while the WRU strangle them.

You bang on about developing players whilst ignoring the fundamental fact that the WRU don't fund this properly either. It needs massive top ups from - you guessed it - private investors. To think that the regions are spunking away millions of WRU money shows you have no grip of the way the regions are financed. Similarly, you have no idea what money has been spent on SH players, which in all likelihood is less than could be spent on similar Welsh journeymen to pad out the squad as the PA artificially inflates their value. People like you who think you can run a pro team on a spine of Welsh kids/journeymen pros need to get real. I've been watching a team consistently fail on that basis for the last ten years.

Wont argue with the sentiments there, some SH players have helped IMHO to develop our own youngsters although there does seem to have been a problem in the past of overpaid journeymen, I think the issue now though is the SH players actully offer better value for money for the regions as they are available all year.
I would be more concerned at the moment if the Scarlets were loosing Earle or Snyman than I am about loosing George North who I see very little of at PYS anyway. Given the choice of keeping Fenby or North I would actually opt to keep Fenby even with his injury record as he scores tries as frequently and is unlikely to cause the type of pay revolt that North will.
As for the Regions plan I can not comment on the other 3 but from what I see at PYS the guys at the top are doing ok at providing a stable platform for the buisness to stand on but we seem to have inexperienced middle management who have no idea how to market the product to the consumer. I do fear for the future of the club with the way it is running at present.

I'm suddenly reminded of the Ospreys v Tonga game that wasn't. Shame the WRU blocked it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20200617

Stone Motif wrote:Yes, he is responsible. The regions have quite clearly stated this is only about more money if they are not allowed the freedom to generate greater revenue on their own. That is impossible while the WRU strangle them.

You bang on about developing players whilst ignoring the fundamental fact that the WRU don't fund this properly either. It needs massive top ups from - you guessed it - private investors. To think that the regions are spunking away millions of WRU money shows you have no grip of the way the regions are financed. Similarly, you have no idea what money has been spent on SH players, which in all likelihood is less than could be spent on similar Welsh journeymen to pad out the squad as the PA artificially inflates their value. People like you who think you can run a pro team on a spine of Welsh kids/journeymen pros need to get real. I've been watching a team consistently fail on that basis for the last ten years.

A simple sum for you 6 SH players per region for 10 years =240 annual wages bills lets err on the conservative side and say they were on an average of £100,000 per annum thats over £20 mil on wages add the Bowes Walkers etc and it's a touch more.

Your argument fails to take on board the massive debt to banks that Glanmor left and this money has to be paid off.

Regarding failure we have already failed with the SH players what is the difference in failing with local lads. The Slam teams over the recent years were all made up of "Local lads"

Nah sorry SM the regions have been poorly managed from day one and in my world you don't subsidise continual failure.

There is also 2 sides to every story, Deacon Manu or example would be classed as one of your SH players that dont belong here, however he has been a solid and reliable servant for the Scarlets since 2006 and also coaches the youth team in Bynea in his free time. He has also become a very popular member of the community in this time and I believe now considers Llanelli his home. It is questionable wether Samson Lee would of come through at such a young age without role models like Manu.

I dont have any problems with any of the players involved.

My problem is with the system that allowed it to happen all to the detriment of our youth

Alty there have been some nwqs that have been arguably blocking youth Adam Eustace and James Arlidge spring to mind. However there have been numerous that arguably helped develope youth players. I don't think it is a coincidence that Regan King was at the Scarlets when they brought through Foxy, Scott, Warren (and Gavin Evans) to international level, or Paul Tito helping Bradley Davies develope etc. I think the regions have probably turned the corner with nwq signings and the majority are now as useful for what experience and attitude they bring off the field as the obvious stuff they bring on the field.

But was it really detrimental? or is the experience gained from the SH players, that were working alongside our boys day after day, one of the contributing factors to the development of the Wales team we have at present.
They were bought over to provide experience and proffesionalism to our teams, the same teams that have then produced the current crop of Wales players.
Roger Lewis had nothing to do with developing these players yet he expects to run the national team using them without fair recompense for the Regions that did develop them and currently pay their wages, in the case of players like Ryan Jones and Mathew Rees the WRU have already folded their region.
So should we trust the men that put in their own money? or Roger who has put in what exactly?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Alty there have been some nwqs that have been arguably blocking youth Adam Eustace and James Arlidge spring to mind. However there have been numerous that arguably helped develope youth players. I don't think it is a coincidence that Regan King was at the Scarlets when they brought through Foxy, Scott, Warren (and Gavin Evans) to international level, or Paul Tito helping Bradley Davies develope etc. I think the regions have probably turned the corner with nwq signings and the majority are now as useful for what experience and attitude they bring off the field as the obvious stuff they bring on the field.

Yep and let's give a mention to other hugely influential and inspirational players such as Xavier Rush, Ben Blair, Tiatia and not forgetting crazy Dan Baugh who is now helping our Welsh lads win trophies.

2ndtimeround wrote:There is also 2 sides to every story, Deacon Manu or example would be classed as one of your SH players that dont belong here, however he has been a solid and reliable servant for the Scarlets since 2006 and also coaches the youth team in Bynea in his free time. He has also become a very popular member of the community in this time and I believe now considers Llanelli his home. It is questionable wether Samson Lee would of come through at such a young age without role models like Manu.

Foreign players are fine as long as they are limited to say 2 per squad and have the right character and super 15/international experience.

However, I firmly believe that Samson Lee, for example, benefits far more from playing regularly for the scarlets than j fitzpatrick the ulster tight head does by training with Jon Afoa.

Allty wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:Yes, he is responsible. The regions have quite clearly stated this is only about more money if they are not allowed the freedom to generate greater revenue on their own. That is impossible while the WRU strangle them.

You bang on about developing players whilst ignoring the fundamental fact that the WRU don't fund this properly either. It needs massive top ups from - you guessed it - private investors. To think that the regions are spunking away millions of WRU money shows you have no grip of the way the regions are financed. Similarly, you have no idea what money has been spent on SH players, which in all likelihood is less than could be spent on similar Welsh journeymen to pad out the squad as the PA artificially inflates their value. People like you who think you can run a pro team on a spine of Welsh kids/journeymen pros need to get real. I've been watching a team consistently fail on that basis for the last ten years.

A simple sum for you 6 SH players per region for 10 years =240 annual wages bills lets err on the conservative side and say they were on an average of £100,000 per annum thats over £20 mil on wages add the Bowes Walkers etc and it's a touch more.

Your argument fails to take on board the massive debt to banks that Glanmor left and this money has to be paid off.

Regarding failure we have already failed with the SH players what is the difference in failing with local lads. The Slam teams over the recent years were all made up of "Local lads"

Nah sorry SM the regions have been poorly managed from day one and in my world you don't subsidise continual failure.

If that's how much you honestly think the SH players are paid in Wales as a rule you're on another planet.

And you're spouting off about your beloved WRU without recourse to facts an all, as their accounts reveal they are paying off the debt quite comfortably (probably over and above the agreed rate) and making a tidy profit from the regions players to do it.

There is no point alluding to the failure of the regions when the bar for their success (Euro Cups) is so much higher than it is for the national team.

So, having established that Katie Price knows more about Welsh rugby finances than you do, we turn to your 'you don't subsidise failure' comment. Why in the blue hell are you Roger Lewis fetishists unable to comprehend that the WRU don't blydi subsidise anybody? The regions benefactors are the only ones doling out any real subsidy pal, about 40m of it in the last ten years, for no return. They have only 'failed' because Team Wales succeeds at their own expense.

Cant agree with a limit as low as 2 sorry, Scarlets for example have just signed 2 NWQ locks that have transformed the pack,also a tight head in Addrianse , they released 3 Welsh lads to do this including 1 with Welsh Caps in Reed and lost another Welsh international through retirement, the rest of the team are now benefiting from playing in a team that are not smashed by anyone with a big pack. How would the Wales players in the Scarlet backs have benefited from continuing to play behind a retreating pack instead of enjoying a little more attacking ball been provided by the NWQ second row.
With a limit of 2 the Scarlets could not have signed Earle, Snyman and Addrianse. I would challenge anyone to tell me where they believe the Region could have found the equivalent Welsh qualified talent for an affordable amount of money.
Incidently they also signed Jake Ball, Richard Kelly and Lewis Rawlings who will all learn from Earle and Snyman.

Stone Motif wrote:

Allty wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:Yes, he is responsible. The regions have quite clearly stated this is only about more money if they are not allowed the freedom to generate greater revenue on their own. That is impossible while the WRU strangle them.

You bang on about developing players whilst ignoring the fundamental fact that the WRU don't fund this properly either. It needs massive top ups from - you guessed it - private investors. To think that the regions are spunking away millions of WRU money shows you have no grip of the way the regions are financed. Similarly, you have no idea what money has been spent on SH players, which in all likelihood is less than could be spent on similar Welsh journeymen to pad out the squad as the PA artificially inflates their value. People like you who think you can run a pro team on a spine of Welsh kids/journeymen pros need to get real. I've been watching a team consistently fail on that basis for the last ten years.

A simple sum for you 6 SH players per region for 10 years =240 annual wages bills lets err on the conservative side and say they were on an average of £100,000 per annum thats over £20 mil on wages add the Bowes Walkers etc and it's a touch more.

Your argument fails to take on board the massive debt to banks that Glanmor left and this money has to be paid off.

Regarding failure we have already failed with the SH players what is the difference in failing with local lads. The Slam teams over the recent years were all made up of "Local lads"

Nah sorry SM the regions have been poorly managed from day one and in my world you don't subsidise continual failure.

If that's how much you honestly think the SH players are paid in Wales as a rule you're on another planet.

And you're spouting off about your beloved WRU without recourse to facts an all, as their accounts reveal they are paying off the debt quite comfortably (probably over and above the agreed rate) and making a tidy profit from the regions players to do it.

There is no point alluding to the failure of the regions when the bar for their success (Euro Cups) is so much higher than it is for the national team.

So, having established that Katie Price knows more about Welsh rugby finances than you do, we turn to your 'you don't subsidise failure' comment. Why in the blue hell are you Roger Lewis fetishists unable to comprehend that the WRU don't blydi subsidise anybody? The regions benefactors are the only ones doling out any real subsidy pal, about 40m of it in the last ten years, for no return. They have only 'failed' because Team Wales succeeds at their own expense.

I have no love for the WRU

If you think that the NWQ's were paid on average less than 100K you know less than me.

I point out that I'm talking about 10 years of expensive players not todays unknown mercenaries. Even if they were on apprentice rates of 50K it still over £10 mil

I shall now withdraw from this discussion as sadly you are starting to become personal

Good, because sadly you've started to become ridiculous.

Stone come on and let it drop now

Stone Motif wrote:Good, because sadly you've started to become ridiculous.

Your loyalty to the regions is admirable, if slightly pitiful.

The facts of the matter are that the regions are poorly run businesses run by old men who lack the drive and vision to make things work. This was evidenced by the findings of the PWC report which was so critical of the financial management of these entities by their wealthy owners.

Apart from the ospreys, the regions have also refused to embrace the regional concept. The dragons (or newport) as their owners would prefer them to be called have alienated the rest of Gwent.

The Blues are despised in the valleys and have failed to build any kind of relationship with pontypridd.

The scarlets had big plans for north wales but the wru were soon left to pick up the pieces.

The regions are peeved because Roger Lewis had the temerity to impose some financial rigour on them and good on him for doing so.

No more money should be wasted on the regions until they change their ways.

Scrumdown wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:Good, because sadly you've started to become ridiculous.

Your loyalty to the regions is admirable, if slightly pitiful.

The facts of the matter are that the regions are poorly run businesses run by old men who lack the drive and vision to make things work. This was evidenced by the findings of the PWC report which was so critical of the financial management of these entities by their wealthy owners.

Apart from the ospreys, the regions have also refused to embrace the regional concept. The dragons (or newport) as their owners would prefer them to be called have alienated the rest of Gwent.

The Blues are despised in the valleys and have failed to build any kind of relationship with pontypridd.

The scarlets had big plans for north wales but the wru were soon left to pick up the pieces.

The regions are peeved because Roger Lewis had the temerity to impose some financial rigour on them and good on him for doing so.

No more money should be wasted on the regions until they change their ways.

Garbage.

Stone Motif wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:Good, because sadly you've started to become ridiculous.

Your loyalty to the regions is admirable, if slightly pitiful.

The facts of the matter are that the regions are poorly run businesses run by old men who lack the drive and vision to make things work. This was evidenced by the findings of the PWC report which was so critical of the financial management of these entities by their wealthy owners.

Apart from the ospreys, the regions have also refused to embrace the regional concept. The dragons (or newport) as their owners would prefer them to be called have alienated the rest of Gwent.

The Blues are despised in the valleys and have failed to build any kind of relationship with pontypridd.

The scarlets had big plans for north wales but the wru were soon left to pick up the pieces.

The regions are peeved because Roger Lewis had the temerity to impose some financial rigour on them and good on him for doing so.

No more money should be wasted on the regions until they change their ways.

Garbage.

Utter garbage more like.

Scrumdown wrote:The facts of the matter are that the regions are poorly run businesses run by old men who lack the drive and vision to make things work. This was evidenced by the findings of the PWC report which was so critical of the financial management of these entities by their wealthy owners.

And yet look at the WRU's response when the Scarlets did the sensible thing and offered George North no more than they could afford for him. You can't have it both ways.

Scrumdown wrote:The Blues are despised in the valleys and have failed to build any kind of relationship with pontypridd.

http://www.cardiffblues.com/community/regional_clubs_clubs_in_the_blues_region.php

Plenty of RCT clubs there. If Ponty don't want to know, more fool them.

And the Scarlets now fund Carmarthen Quins themselves now I believe, as the WRU decided they wanted Bridgend and Quins out.
The playes spend more time doing events in West Wales than they do in Llanelli.
With the Scarlets support has historically come from they are the one team that could well claim to have alraedy been a region in all but name before the WRU forced regionalisation on Welsh Rugby, and yes I do mean forced, the 4 surviving regions where not the ones responsible for implementing Regional rugby, they are simply the clubs that were strong enough to survive the change.

To be fair I think that all the regions make real efforts to be regions, and to be honest I have found that most people who keep banging the one-true-region drum are either having a little joke with other regional supporters, or more often than not, don't really pay attention to anything other than what Scrum V or the Western Fail tell them.

Or they're Ponty supporters, who are not of this earth.

The way it's going 'failed businesses' is becoming the new mythology drawn upon when castigating the regions mind.

Stone Motif wrote:Or they're Ponty supporters, who are not of this earth.

The way it's going 'failed businesses' is becoming the new mythology drawn upon when castigating the regions mind.

It won't be long till the Dragons start the tagline...

'One true business'

I suspect that if any Welsh region reached the H-cup final, and for a bonus beat a few English teams along the way, that the next year they would have a nearly full stadium for every home game. People get behind and like supporting winning teams.

A lot will depend on the draws for next year, however I think that the regions are all 3rd tier now, so it will make it difficult for them to Qualify out of a group.

Winning the Pro 12 hasn't seamed to catch the Welsh publics attention, but if a region got to the h-cup final, the next year the fans would take the Pro 12 as a more serious comp.

After winning the Almin, if Cardiff Blues had won league the following year, they would have carried on the feel good factor that this is a team that can compete with the best, at the moment the regions are lacking this, and hence not attracting the crowds they need.

Kingshu wrote:I suspect that if any Welsh region reached the H-cup final, and for a bonus beat a few English teams along the way, that the next year they would have a nearly full stadium for every home game. People get behind and like supporting winning teams.

.

Blues lost out on goal kicks after extra time in the semi, beat numerous English teams en route to winning the Amlin, and for a few seasons had a very good HC record, including a huge run over English opponents...

All the while recording 4/5k home attendances.

Lets not pretend the regions are only unpopular because of their failure, they are unpopular!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Kingshu wrote:I suspect that if any Welsh region reached the H-cup final, and for a bonus beat a few English teams along the way, that the next year they would have a nearly full stadium for every home game. People get behind and like supporting winning teams.

.

Blues lost out on goal kicks after extra time in the semi, beat numerous English teams en route to winning the Amlin, and for a few seasons had a very good HC record, including a huge run over English opponents...

All the while recording 4/5k home attendances.

Lets not pretend the regions are only unpopular because of their failure, they are unpopular!!!

Actual or reported?
http://www.cardiffblues.com/rugby/fixtures_and_results.php?includeref=3792&season=2008-2009

Scrumdown wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:Good, because sadly you've started to become ridiculous.

Your loyalty to the regions is admirable, if slightly pitiful.

The facts of the matter are that the regions are poorly run businesses run by old men who lack the drive and vision to make things work. This was evidenced by the findings of the PWC report which was so critical of the financial management of these entities by their wealthy owners.

Apart from the ospreys, the regions have also refused to embrace the regional concept. The dragons (or newport) as their owners would prefer them to be called have alienated the rest of Gwent.

The Blues are despised in the valleys and have failed to build any kind of relationship with pontypridd.

The scarlets had big plans for north wales but the wru were soon left to pick up the pieces.

The regions are peeved because Roger Lewis had the temerity to impose some financial rigour on them and good on him for doing so.

No more money should be wasted on the regions until they change their ways.

I would agree that in some ways, Cardiff has been poorly managed for donkey's years and i've been very critical of them in the past, but at least now it appears to be much improved. Still more to do however.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:To be fair I think that all the regions make real efforts to be regions, and to be honest I have found that most people who keep banging the one-true-region drum are either having a little joke with other regional supporters, or more often than not, don't really pay attention to anything other than what Scrum V or the Western Fail tell them.

I posted this link on the "self destruct" thread.

Ospreys slate Welsh Rugby Union over club links

Ospreys boss Andrew Hore has accused the Welsh Rugby Union of not encouraging the region to forge better relationships with local clubs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21957344

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Kingshu wrote:I suspect that if any Welsh region reached the H-cup final, and for a bonus beat a few English teams along the way, that the next year they would have a nearly full stadium for every home game. People get behind and like supporting winning teams.

.

Blues lost out on goal kicks after extra time in the semi, beat numerous English teams en route to winning the Amlin, and for a few seasons had a very good HC record, including a huge run over English opponents...

All the while recording 4/5k home attendances.

Lets not pretend the regions are only unpopular because of their failure, they are unpopular!!!

27,114 for a group game against Gloucester, 36,728 V Toulouse in Q final and 44,212 for a semi against Tigers
Shows that they do have fans, they just don't get them to attend enough.

after that year the average crowd for league games slightly increased, if they had done better in the league they would have been able to build on that feel good factor, and I believe crowds would have continued to grow.

Also a Semi final goes not create the same intrest and hype that making the final does, thats why I suggest it as make the final rather than a clsoe semi. When there is build up that a region could actually win the cup, that will carry on the next year.

Kingshu wrote:

27,114 for a group game against Gloucester, 36,728 V Toulouse in Q final and 44,212 for a semi against Tigers
Shows that they do have fans, they just don't get them to attend enough.

after that year the average crowd for league games slightly increased, if they had done better in the league they would have been able to build on that feel good factor, and I believe crowds would have continued to grow.

Also a Semi final goes not create the same intrest and hype that making the final does, thats why I suggest it as make the final rather than a clsoe semi. When there is build up that a region could actually win the cup, that will carry on the next year.

Best not go there I reckon.

Kingshu wrote:27,114 for a group game against Gloucester, 36,728 V Toulouse in Q final and 44,212 for a semi against Tigers Shows that they do have fans, they just don't get them to attend enough.

Or they don't get to enough home semi finals in the mill stad so the part time fan can come join in the celebration without going to another game all season

Then there was the 'move'.

Kingshu wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Kingshu wrote:I suspect that if any Welsh region reached the H-cup final, and for a bonus beat a few English teams along the way, that the next year they would have a nearly full stadium for every home game. People get behind and like supporting winning teams.

.

Blues lost out on goal kicks after extra time in the semi, beat numerous English teams en route to winning the Amlin, and for a few seasons had a very good HC record, including a huge run over English opponents...

All the while recording 4/5k home attendances.

Lets not pretend the regions are only unpopular because of their failure, they are unpopular!!!

27,114 for a group game against Gloucester, 36,728 V Toulouse in Q final and 44,212 for a semi against Tigers
Shows that they do have fans, they just don't get them to attend enough.

after that year the average crowd for league games slightly increased, if they had done better in the league they would have been able to build on that feel good factor, and I believe crowds would have continued to grow.

Also a Semi final goes not create the same intrest and hype that making the final does, thats why I suggest it as make the final rather than a clsoe semi. When there is build up that a region could actually win the cup, that will carry on the next year.

Are you really claiming those 3 millenium stadium, sponsored, bumper non Blues fans crowd as success's? What did those days do aside from provide a payday short term...? And how did the Blues capitolise on all those fairweathers? They tried to turn them into the die hards and popped a middle finger up to the real die hards!!!

Ok maybe I excagorated the home attendances that season, but to put that in perspective I was at Newcastle, Wasps, Toulon away games as well as all those MS games and there were definately not many fans that crossed over from the MS to Blues away game trust me!!