Aviva Premiership - Round 18

Round 18

Fri 22nd Mar 13
20:00 Sale Sharks v Bath Rugby Salford City Stadium Preview

Sat 23rd Mar 13
15:00 Gloucester Rugby v London Welsh Kingsholm Preview
15:00 London Irish v Worcester Warriors Madejski Stadium Preview
15:15 London Wasps v Northampton Saints Adams Park Sky Preview
17:00 Exeter Chiefs v Leicester Tigers Sandy Park ESPN Preview

Sun 24th Mar 13
14:00 Saracens v Harlequins Allianz Park ESPN Preview



Table

1 Saracens 59
2 Harlequins 55
3 Leicester 54
4 Northampton 49
5 Gloucester 46
6 London Wasps 46
7 Bath 42
8 Exeter 41
9 Worcester 32
10 London Irish 24
11 Sale 19
12 London Welsh 17


As we enter the run in to the season, Harlequins victory over Sale in the LV cup means that 6th place will still earn an HEC spot. Strong representation in the HEC and Amlin 1/4 Finals means there is a chance that 7th place could be good enough. Round 18 brings an intriguing set of clashes affecting Play-Off spots, European places and even the relegation battle.

Victory for Sale over a Bath team that would have been disappointed by the manner of their loss to Quins A in the LV makes life very difficult for London Welsh at the bottom - even if they do get their points deduction over-turned. Bath will be hurting though and are certainly not pushovers. Heineken Cup rugby is still very much on the agenda, whilst a good run of results could even see them sneaking into the play-off spots.

For a little while now it has looked as if Gloucester, Northampton and Wasps have looked as if they are fighting for the 4th spot. Gloucester will be confident of a win at home to London Welsh but the meeting between the other two could be a cracker.

Against a Worcester side with very little to play for, and a lot of departing players, London Irish will be hoping to secure the win that would all but guarantee survival.

Tigers will have to decide how many of their battered England contingent to take down to Devon. They will hope to repeat the home victory where Exter were outmuscled and ultimately well beaten. A win for Exeter though and Tiger's fans will be looking nervousley over their shoulders at the chasing pack, whilst Exeter fans will start wondering if they could get another HEC campaign.

The round closes on Sunday with the tie of the round. Table toppers host champions and a win for Sarries would make them clear favourites for a home play off semi. A win for Quins (especially if accompanied by a Tigers win) would make things very interesting at the top.


The quality and ambition shown by the four LV semi-finalists suggests we may have a good weekend, I hope so.

Hoping we'll see Fraser vs Wallace in the Sarries-Quins encounter, should be a good 'un. Hopefully we can defend like we did this time last year

CJ, I hope so, a battle of the young pretenders would make good viewing on a Sunday afternoon.

I've missed the AP, really looking forward to this weeks games. Big ask for Saints and expect a LBP against Wasps at best. Think Tigers and Sarries will be victorious in other 2 live games.

Will Wallace actually start against Fraser? Has CoS said that Robshaw has the week off or anything after the 6N?

B91212 wrote:I've missed the AP, really looking forward to this weeks games. Big ask for Saints and expect a LBP against Wasps at best. Think Tigers and Sarries will be victorious in other 2 live games.

Will Wallace actually start against Fraser? Has CoS said that Robshaw has the week off or anything after the 6N?

We don't know yet, just being hopeful. Robshaw has a HEC QF coming up and a very busy end of season ,esp if we make the final stages of the AP, HEC and he tours Australia so one week's rest is probably an idea despite how fit he is. He looked tired against Wales and has played so much rugby this season

I thought an English winner in the Heino or Amlin would not mean a place for the 7th prem team, but rather the next highest ranked Enligh team in European terms that isn't otherwise qualified? Can anyone confirm/deny?

I am pretty sure that should either cup be won by a team already qualified then PRL chose the qualification criteria, which in the past was 7th in the league. But I cannot find anything definitive.

Should any country win both cups then the highers ranked team not qualified (and not from that country) qualifies.

Can't see Quins winning away at Sarries as much as i'd love it to happen.

Hope we get the losing bp though and Exeter do us a favour against Tigers.

Exeter have confirmed today that the last tickets for the visit of Tigers has been sold.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

B91212 wrote:Will Wallace actually start against Fraser? Has CoS said that Robshaw has the week off or anything after the 6N?

We don't know yet, just being hopeful. Robshaw has a HEC QF coming up and a very busy end of season ,esp if we make the final stages of the AP, HEC and he tours Australia so one week's rest is probably an idea despite how fit he is. He looked tired against Wales and has played so much rugby this season

It's a big call to make given the opponents. Certainly deserves the week off.

B91212 wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

B91212 wrote:Will Wallace actually start against Fraser? Has CoS said that Robshaw has the week off or anything after the 6N?

We don't know yet, just being hopeful. Robshaw has a HEC QF coming up and a very busy end of season ,esp if we make the final stages of the AP, HEC and he tours Australia so one week's rest is probably an idea despite how fit he is. He looked tired against Wales and has played so much rugby this season

It's a big call to make given the opponents. Certainly deserves the week off.

COS will probably give one of him the week off, but play the other one.

Sale team for tomorrows match v Bath:

eam Cameron Shepherd, Charlie Amesbury, Jonny Leota, Sammy Tuitupou, Mark Cueto, Nick Macleod, Dwayne Peel, Alasdair Dickinson, Marc Jones, Henry Thomas, James Gaskell, Andrei Ostrikov, Dan Braid, David Seymour Captain, Andy Powell

Replacements Tommy Taylor, Ross Harrison, Tony Buckley, Fraser McKenzie, Kearnan Myall, Nathan Fowles, Danny Cipriani, Richie Vernon


Interesting that for a game they should be targetting they have left Cipriani on the bench.

Bath lineup from their websit (two captains ?):

15. Nick Abendanon
14. Horacio Agulla
13. Matt Banahan
12. Kyle Eastmond
11. Tom Biggs
10. Tom Heathcote
9. Peter Stringer
1. Paul James
2. Rob Webber
3. David Wilson
4. Stuart Hooper ( c )
5. Dave Attwood
6. Francois Louw ( c )
7. Carl Fearns
8. Ben Skirving

Replacements

16. Ross Batty
17. Nathan Catt
18. Anthony Perenise
19. Dominic Day
20. Mat Gilbert
21. Michael Classens
22. Ollie Devoto
23. Semesa Rokoduguni

Looking at those 2 sides it is clear why Sale are where they are, as they really don't have that much quality. The only player I'd have from Sale in that Bath side would be Seymour at 7 with Fearns going to 8. I'm sure Henry Thomas will surpass Wilson given time, but at present Wilson is the better player. Having said all of that Sale will probably go and win now!

Yeah, I looked at the Bath lineup and thought "hmmmm", yet my gut says Sale will win this.

Hooper is club captain, Louw is match captain.

Now I know I am biased, but in my mind that Bath team really shouldnt be in 7th place. I'm still not convinced by the coaching team, we are currently less than the sum of our parts. A decent backs/attack coach must be brought in over the summer.

Good to see Webber back, that front 3 works very well together. Having said that, if Thomas wants to come back to his old club, he would be very welcome!

Bathman in London you say with that Bath team you shouldn't really be in 7th place. Which teams do you think you have a better side than in the top 6?

I think 7th for Bath is about right to be honest.

Though saying that your new signings could see you challenging as a top 4 side next season.

I think we're in the mix with Saints, Wasps and Glos and only 1 win away from them to be fair. If we'd beaten Saints away, which would have been a huge result, but we were only 2 points behind, we'd be right up there.

Well as Bathite says, its all very tight just above us so a win against Sale and a loss for a team above us could see a move into the HC spots.

I don't think you can say 'better' but player for player throughout the squads I don't think Bath are any worse than Saints, Wasps or Glaws.

Remember Exeter are hot on your heels too. On paper Exeter don't have a particularly well known team but they fear no side and are capable of beating anyone. Could the same be said of Bath?

Do you think it's down to the quality of coaching? If you could bring in an attacking maestro who would it be?

For what its worth, my predictions.

Fri 22nd Mar 13
20:00 Sale Sharks v Bath RugbY
Close game, narrow win for Bath, possibly a LBP for Sale.

Sat 23rd Mar 13
15:00 Gloucester Rugby v London Welsh
Home win, try bonus point. 30 plus for Glos.

15:00 London Irish v Worcester Warriors
Might be slightly biased, but with 20k behind them and it being the paddys day game, comfortable home win, with a chance of a TBP.

15:15 London Wasps v Northampton Saints
Close game, away win though. Wasps form has dipped and think Saints pack can squeeze it out.

17:00 Exeter Chiefs v Leicester Tigers Sandy Park
Close game but another away win. LBP for Chiefs.

Sun 24th Mar 13
14:00 Saracens v Harlequins Allianz Park
Home win, no TBP but no LBP for Quins either. 10 point win.

stnick88 wrote:For what its worth, my predictions.

Fri 22nd Mar 13
20:00 Sale Sharks v Bath RugbY
Close game, narrow win for Bath, possibly a LBP for Sale.

Sat 23rd Mar 13
15:00 Gloucester Rugby v London Welsh
Home win, try bonus point. 30 plus for Glos.

15:00 London Irish v Worcester Warriors
Might be slightly biased, but with 20k behind them and it being the paddys day game, comfortable home win, with a chance of a TBP.

15:15 London Wasps v Northampton Saints
Close game, away win though. Wasps form has dipped and think Saints pack can squeeze it out.

17:00 Exeter Chiefs v Leicester Tigers Sandy Park
Close game but another away win. LBP for Chiefs.

Sun 24th Mar 13
14:00 Saracens v Harlequins Allianz Park
Home win, no TBP but no LBP for Quins either. 10 point win.

Agree with all of those, except saying that Wuss and Welsh could just as easily win as lose, think that especially with the weather turning for the worse all these games will be close!

Some of those games could be very tight, might need to see who is available before predictions, especially in the Sarries/Quins and Chiefs/Tigers games.

beshocked wrote:Remember Exeter are hot on your heels too. On paper Exeter don't have a particularly well known team but they fear no side and are capable of beating anyone. Could the same be said of Bath?

Do you think it's down to the quality of coaching? If you could bring in an attacking maestro who would it be?

We haven't lost to Exeter the last 3/4 times we've played them. They've got a great side, just because they aren't internationals or in the EPS, doesn't mean they aren't well known. Maybe be your standards, but I rate many of their players when I actually watch them play.

Quality of coaching? What are you talking about? Gold's class, he's got class supporting act, but his style of play is well known and out and out attack isn't part of it.

Bathite wrote:

beshocked wrote:Remember Exeter are hot on your heels too. On paper Exeter don't have a particularly well known team but they fear no side and are capable of beating anyone. Could the same be said of Bath?

Do you think it's down to the quality of coaching? If you could bring in an attacking maestro who would it be?

We haven't lost to Exeter the last 3/4 times we've played them. They've got a great side, just because they aren't internationals or in the EPS, doesn't mean they aren't well known. Maybe be your standards, but I rate many of their players when I actually watch them play.

Quality of coaching? What are you talking about? Gold's class, he's got class supporting act, but his style of play is well known and out and out attack isn't part of it.

Is he? He seems horribly 'old school' for me. He got the Falcons pack to be more competitive but it seems his ethos is 'Get a massive pack to slowly grind teams down'. I've seen nothing to suggest he is a top class coach.

yappysnap wrote:

stnick88 wrote:For what its worth, my predictions.

Fri 22nd Mar 13
20:00 Sale Sharks v Bath RugbY
Close game, narrow win for Bath, possibly a LBP for Sale.

Sat 23rd Mar 13
15:00 Gloucester Rugby v London Welsh
Home win, try bonus point. 30 plus for Glos.

15:00 London Irish v Worcester Warriors
Might be slightly biased, but with 20k behind them and it being the paddys day game, comfortable home win, with a chance of a TBP.

15:15 London Wasps v Northampton Saints
Close game, away win though. Wasps form has dipped and think Saints pack can squeeze it out.

17:00 Exeter Chiefs v Leicester Tigers Sandy Park
Close game but another away win. LBP for Chiefs.

Sun 24th Mar 13
14:00 Saracens v Harlequins Allianz Park
Home win, no TBP but no LBP for Quins either. 10 point win.

Agree with all of those, except saying that Wuss and Welsh could just as easily win as lose, think that especially with the weather turning for the worse all these games will be close!

Can't really disagree either, although I think Quins might get the LBP. Good to see the real rugby back on!

Hood83 wrote:

Bathite wrote:

beshocked wrote:Remember Exeter are hot on your heels too. On paper Exeter don't have a particularly well known team but they fear no side and are capable of beating anyone. Could the same be said of Bath?

Do you think it's down to the quality of coaching? If you could bring in an attacking maestro who would it be?

We haven't lost to Exeter the last 3/4 times we've played them. They've got a great side, just because they aren't internationals or in the EPS, doesn't mean they aren't well known. Maybe be your standards, but I rate many of their players when I actually watch them play.

Quality of coaching? What are you talking about? Gold's class, he's got class supporting act, but his style of play is well known and out and out attack isn't part of it.

Is he? He seems horribly 'old school' for me. He got the Falcons pack to be more competitive but it seems his ethos is 'Get a massive pack to slowly grind teams down'. I've seen nothing to suggest he is a top class coach.

We had a powder puff pack that got ground down by our opponents. He's sorted this out brilliantly and now we have a much more solid base to attack from. So, from my point of view, he's done a cracking job and addressed our key weakness. Problems remain with attack, the bias is too much on defence and the pack, but I'd rather we had it this way round, although it's much worse to watch, it generally wins more games, especially against the big boys of Tigers, Saints, Sarries etc

Glaws side to face LW. Still no Ben morgan - what the hell did he do against Scotland?

Rob Cook; Charlie Sharples, Mike Tindall, Billy Twelvetrees, Jonny May; Freddie Burns, Dan Robson; Nick Wood, Huia Edmonds, Shaun Knight; Jim Hamilton (capt), Will James; Peter Buxton; Andy Hazell, Sione Kalamafoni

Replacements: Koree Britton, Yann Thomas, Dario Chistolini, Tom Savage, Akapusi Qera, Dave Lewis, Henry Trinder, Martyn

Tigers v chiefs line-ups. Cockers has surprised me and gone for the strongest available team - with flood as Captain!!

Leicester Tigers (v Exeter Chiefs, away, Saturday 5pm)
15 Mathew Tait
14 Niall Morris
13 Manusamoa Tuilagi
12 Anthony Allen
11 Adam Thompstone
10 Toby Flood (c)
9 Ben Youngs
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Tom Youngs
3 Dan Cole
4 Ed Slater
5 Geoff Parling
6 Tom Croft
7 Julian Salvi
8 Jordan Crane

Replacements
16 Rob Hawkins
17 Logovi'i Mulipola
18 Martin Castrogiovanni
19 Thomas Waldrom
20 Graham Kitchener
21 Sam Harrison
22 George Ford
23 Matt Smith

Exeter Chiefs
15 Luke Arscott
14 Jack Nowell
13 Sireli Naqelevuki
12 Phil Dollman
11 Matt Jess
10 Gareth Steenson
9 Haydn Thomas
1 Carl Rimmer
2 Jack Yeandle
3 Hoani Tui
4 Dean Mumm
5 Damian Welch
6 Ben White
7 James Scaysbrook
8 Richard Baxter (c)

Replacements
16 Chris Whitehead
17 Brett Sturgess
18 Craig Mitchell
19 James Hanks
20 Dave Ewers
21 Will Chudley
22 Henry Slade
23 Ian Whitten

Nah Bath have more then just a horrible pack, and to be fair looking at other teams issues in the forwards getting a big physical pack is no small achievement.

Bath still have issues out wide and are a totally different team without Louw, Abendanon and Claassons, but they're getting there slowly.

Quins sqaud, looks like no side is resting players:

15. Mike Brown
14. Ugo Monye
13. Matt Hopper
12. Jordan Turner-Hall
11. Sam Smith
10. Nick Evans
9. Danny Care

1. Joe Marler
2. Joe Gray
3. James Johnston
4. Charlie Matthews
5. George Robson
6. Tom Guest
7. Chris Robshaw (C)
8. Nick Easter

16. Rob Buchanan
17. Mark Lambert
18. Will Collier
19. Maurie Fa'asavalu
20. Luke Wallace
21. Karl Dickson
22. Ben Botica
23. George Lowe

LondonTiger wrote:..........looks like no side is resting players......

Yeah. I think everyone realises it is now 'balls to the wall' time. The Six Nations almost a break in the overall madness.

Aha, Saints rest Tom wood:

15 Ben FODEN
14 James WILSON
13 George PISI
12 Dom WALDOUCK
11 Jamie ELLIOTT
10 Stephen MYLER
9 Lee DICKSON
1 Soane TONGA'UIHA
2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
3 Tom MERCEY
4 Courtney LAWES
5 Christian DAY
6 Samu MANOA
7 Phil DOWSON
8 GJ VAN VELZE

Replacements
16 Ross MCMILLAN
17 Alex WALLER
18 Brian MUJATI
19 Tom WOOD
20 Ben NUTLEY
21 Martin ROBERTS
22 Ryan LAMB
23 Tom MAY

While Wasps rest Launchbury:

15 – Hugo Southwell
14 – Tom Varndell
13 – Elliot Daly
12 – Chris Bell
11 – Christian Wade
10 – Stephen Jones
9 – Joe Simpson

1 – Tim Payne
2 – T Rhys Thomas
3 – Phil Swainston
4 – Tom Palmer
5 – Marco Wentzel
6 – Ashley Johnson
7 – Sam Jones
8 – Billy Vunipola

Replacements

16 – Tom Lindsey
17 – Zak Taulafo
18 – Will Taylor
19 – James Haskell
20 – Joe Launchbury
21 – Stuart Cummins
22 – Nick Robinson
23 – Andrea Masi

LI Team for Worcester

15. Tom Homer; 14. Topsy Ojo*; 13. Guy Armitage; 12. Shane Geraghty*; 11. Marland Yarde; 10. Ian Humphreys; 9. Pat Phibbs; 1. Max Lahiff; 2. David Paice*; 3. Halani Aulika*; 4. George Skivington (Captain); 5. Bryn Evans*; 6. Matt Garvey; 7. Ofisa Treviranus*; 8. Chris Hala’ufia*

Replacements: 16. Scott Lawson*; 17. Jerry Yanuyanutawa*; 18.Leo Halavatau; 19. Jamie Gibson; 20. Jon Fisher; 21. Sailosi Tagicakibau*; 22. Jonathan Joseph*; 23. Jack Moates

That is the strongest side available to us to put out at this stage. I think we should have enough to turn Worcester over at home.

LondonTiger wrote:Aha, Saints rest Tom wood:

15 Ben FODEN
14 James WILSON
13 George PISI
12 Dom WALDOUCK
11 Jamie ELLIOTT
10 Stephen MYLER
9 Lee DICKSON
1 Soane TONGA'UIHA
2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
3 Tom MERCEY
4 Courtney LAWES
5 Christian DAY
6 Samu MANOA
7 Phil DOWSON
8 GJ VAN VELZE

Replacements
16 Ross MCMILLAN
17 Alex WALLER
18 Brian MUJATI
19 Tom WOOD
20 Ben NUTLEY
21 Martin ROBERTS
22 Ryan LAMB
23 Tom MAY

Interesting: Lawes in the second row and Manoa at 6.

Doesn't Wood need to be rested because of his dodgy foot and the potential to break the little bone in it?

I'm amazed that Cole and Robshaw aren't being rested, both have played a huge amount and are critical to their teams later in the season.

No Sarries team LT?

Don't like the Quins team that much. No second row on the bench is a bit upsetting, though I presume Easter will go to lock. Would like to see Wallace start, with or without Robshaw (who I can understand playing as he lifts the team so much). Would rather have pace on the bench than the admittedly excellent Lowe. Worried that we will get nothing from Sarries and tire our team out before the HEC and Playoffs but COS is an expert at this kind of player management so I'd better trust him

ChequeredJersey wrote:Don't like the Quins team that much. No second row on the bench is a bit upsetting, though I presume Easter will go to lock. Would like to see Wallace start, with or without Robshaw (who I can understand playing as he lifts the team so much). Would rather have pace on the bench than the admittedly excellent Lowe. Worried that we will get nothing from Sarries and tire our team out before the HEC and Playoffs but COS is an expert at this kind of player management so I'd better trust him

I think the logic is:
- Browne and Kohn are not fully fit; wouldn't be fair to put Twomey in against Sarries
- Matthews covers 4 and 5
- Easter covers 4
- Guest covers 8
- Robshaw covers 6
- Fa'asavalu covers 6 or 7
- Wallace covers 7
Easter has gone OK as lock, though I'd rather not see an Easter/Matthews pairing against Borthwick. I think COS is probably planning that Robson and Matthews will play 80 but he might want to give a rest to Robshaw and Guest at some point.

In the back 3, I'd expect that if Lowe comes on Hopper would go to wing - we'd not lose much pace from that.

yappysnap wrote:No Sarries team LT?

15 Alex Goode
14 Chris Ashton
13 Joel Tomkins
12 Brad Barritt
11 David Strettle
10 Owen Farrell
9 Richard Wigglesworth
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Schalk Brits
3 Matt Stevens
4 Steve Borthwick ©
5 Alistair Hargreaves
6 Kelly Brown
7 Will Fraser
8 Ernst Joubert

16 John Smit
17 Rhys Gill*
18 Petrus du Plessis
19 George Kruis
20 Jackson Wray
21 Neil de Kock
22 Charlie Hodgson
23 Chris Wyles

I am delighted we're back discussing the Jeff. Apart from Italy's plucky performance and Wales' thumping of England the 6N was rather turgid. I can pretty much guarantee the 3 games I shall watch this weekend, Glaws v Welsh, Chiefs v Tigers & Sarries v Quins will be far more entertaining than the 6N weekends have been.

I like the look of that Sarries side. Very strong from 1-23.

At last Farrell is no longer shoehorned in at outside centre!

I would expect the bench to have a big impact too.

De Kock and Hodgson from the bench should be able to up the tempo if need be.


Pretty good looking Quins side. Should make an interesting game.

Farrell needs a big game after his dire outing vs Wales. A tight game in nasty conditions is right up his street though and that's a mean looking pack in front of him. Great experience on the Sarries bench.

The same could be said for T.Youngs, Cole, Parling, Croft, B>Youngs and Tuilagi Sam. All were poor against Wales.

I personally don't think any of the England boys need a big game particularly, but if you are saying one does, then surely that applies to all of them.

Hodgson has been in blistering form, I get the feeling that if Quins are to win (and that is a massive if) then we'll need to score a lot while Farrel is on and force Hodgson to come on and play catch up.

Can.Not.Afford.A.Kick-Athon.With.Farrel.

If any one is feeling like they need a big game it's Brown, he's just played a whole tournament out of position and never got a change to show the form he's capable of and will be playing opposite the plodder that has his rightful place.

yappysnap wrote:Hodgson has been in blistering form, I get the feeling that if Quins are to win (and that is a massive if) then we'll need to score a lot while Farrel is on and force Hodgson to come on and play catch up.

Can.Not.Afford.A.Kick-Athon.With.Farrel.

If the weather holds up I can see no reason why we'd want one at all. However, we know they will target Evans and cut off his space, i hope Connor has a plan up his sleeve to counter this

yappysnap wrote:If any one is feeling like they need a big game it's Brown, he's just played a whole tournament out of position and never got a change to show the form he's capable of and will be playing opposite the plodder that has his rightful place.

Harsh to call Goode a plodder, he's just a different type of FB who's not quite as good as Brown. But Mikey B will come out all cylinders firing.

And if we are going to target Sarries' players, surely the one to watch is whether Ashton gets >50% completion on his attempted front-up tackles or not