Axe Cruiser and create a Superheavyweight division ???

What do you think..........

Where would you re-draw the lines though Truss, 175, 250 and 250 plus?

The top, no limit division will still be the "marquee" division, it would turn the "normal" heavyweight division into what the cruiser division is now.

I've argued before for a re-structuring of the weight classes, to take into account the evolution of the average human male from the 1880's to today, it was widely pooh-poohed at the time.

I think yours is a good idea Union.........

Cruiser sucks and always will.............Heavy is the golden division of Boxing...If we can dump the slobs maybe we can get Boxing going again....

Just a thought..

For me getting rid of the weight classes where a guy can pop to the toilet and make the weight below would be of a bigger priority. Would stop all this nonsense with being a "4 weight" world champ when in reality they've started in the pro ranks and mother nature has taken them a stone above where they originally started fighting.

No reason why a good little HW can't beat a giant of a HW, look at the examples of Holyfield vs Bowe, Haye vs Valuev, Adamek vs Arreola and countless more from down the years etc. Not required in my eyes.

Union Cane wrote:Where would you re-draw the lines though Truss, 175, 250 and 250 plus?

The top, no limit division will still be the "marquee" division, it would turn the "normal" heavyweight division into what the cruiser division is now.

I've argued before for a re-structuring of the weight classes, to take into account the evolution of the average human male from the 1880's to today, it was widely pooh-poohed at the time.

I agree with you there, if we look at the way mma structures its weight divisions or at least the way the UFC does, it takes into account the evolution etc & is more in line with the original weight classes.

The Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts designate limits for nine different weight classes in mixed martial arts. Fighters must be weighed in pounds (lb):[5]
Weight class name Upper limit
in pounds (lb) in kilograms (kg)
Flyweight 125 56.7
Bantamweight 135 61.2
Featherweight 145 65.8
Lightweight 155 70.3
Welterweight 170 77.1
Middleweight 185 83.9
Light Heavyweight 205 93.0
Heavyweight 265 120.2
Super Heavyweight No weight limit

There has been talk about creating what could be termed a cruiserweight as you can see there is a huge gap between LHW & HW.

@Truss I don't believe that scrapping cruiserweight would get rid of the slobs, there has to be a fair number of out of shape small HW's that could make 200lbs. Just look at the amount of weights Mathysse & JCC jnr cut for the weigh in & how much they rehydrate to in their recent fights.

I think a Super Heavyweight division would just dilute the already limited talent pool for guys over 200lbs. If it was say 240lb limit who exactly would the Klitschkos have to fight? Also it would just encourage your James Toney's and Chris Arreolas to eat their way up to the higher limit as that would be where the money is.

You maybe right......but cruiser is a joke...and obese one dimensional slobs are turning people away...

When heavy is good it helps Boxing in general.

[quote="TRUSSMAN66"]You maybe right......but cruiser is a joke...and obese one dimensional slobs are turning people away...

When heavy is good it helps Boxing in general.[/quote

No real reason why cruiser should remain a joke, guys fighting at 200lb should be the norm, its only the lack of money in the division that keeps it this way & encourages fighters to eat their way up to HW. Surely Arreola & Solis could get down to 200lbs for a weigh in? They don't have those physiques from eating a good, healthy & balanced diet! Look at the UFC LHW champ Jon Jones, makes 205 & apparently rehydrates back up to 220 & is in great shape, in fact most of the LHW division is in good shape. Yes the fat 1 dimensional talentless HW's are turning people away!

No real reason why my Wife can't have a sex change........The oyster would give her a job!

Thing is it's a joke and apart from Holy-Qawi in 86...........every fight there has either been one sided or has included former Heavyweight-punchbags or low class garbage..

[quote="TRUSSMAN66"]No real reason why my Wife can't have a sex change........The oyster would give her a job!

Thing is it's a joke and apart from Holy-Qawi in 86...........every fight there has either been one sided or has included former Heavyweight-punchbags or low class garbage..[/quote]

Sounds a bit like most of the HW title fights of the last 8 years except the Kbros themselves.

Yes but Boxing can survive without a cruiser division...Heavyweight is the golden division of Boxing..........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Yes but Boxing can survive without a cruiser division...Heavyweight is the golden division of Boxing..........

Was many moons ago & imo LW to MW have always provided the biggest talent pool & the best fights and I don't see that changing anytime soon. PBF the biggest earner & p4p no 1 for almost 10 years now.

Heavyweight will always be the golden division......Hence the purses they get........for fighting.

I hear what your saying Truss and it really was the case for a long time but the last 10 years or so the talent pool has been pretty thin. I suppose it always comes from the fans watching 2 giants fight it out, guys that are way above the average shape, size & strength of the average man. Still don't think axing the CW division will do anything & genuienely feel there is a need for a division between LHW (175) & HW (220+ guys). I think we gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. What do you think of the mma weight classes, would an overhaul of the boxing ones along these lines help at all?

i wouldn't be in favour.
i think the right 6 ft 2 and 220lbs fighter could win a title.

after the brothers are gone, the titles are anyones.

price was 247lbs against thompson and he's as big as you get really - but wouldnt quality for the super heavyweight division??

Whilst obviously you can never really talk of a golden age of the cruiserweight division think the situation now is just a reflection of how bad the heavyweight division is. There will always be a temptation for cruisers to move up to heavy just on economic grounds you do have to think if there was the likes of Lewis, Bowe and Tyson in the division with half way capable contenders such as Mercer and Rahman below them the temptation to move up would be nowhere near as strong as more talent, if such a word is not misused, would be tempted to stay at cruiser. Think they move up now because they can get away with it against the dross.

To be honest just dumping it and creating superheavy would only rebrand things, people would always try and go where the money is and you have to suspect that would be the super-heavy division.

Enzo Macc as HW Champ? Glorious!!!!!!!!

Explain????

I would make the limit 220lbs, giving a bit more incentive to the slobs to cut weight and gives the smaller guys a better chance of picking up a title. Make the super heavyweight lower limit something like 200lbs so the smaller men still get a chance at going for the big one.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I would make the limit 220lbs, giving a bit more incentive to the slobs to cut weight and gives the smaller guys a better chance of picking up a title. Make the super heavyweight lower limit something like 200lbs so the smaller men still get a chance at going for the big one.

What HW not above 220lbs & then SHW above 220lbs with a fighter not being allowed to fight at SHW if he weighs below 200lbs? I'm a little confused Ghosty.

Pretty much what you said, that way if a smaller fighter like say Chambers wants to face one of the big boys without piling the weight on he can.

I would hope the likes of Arreola & Solis could come in in shape & fight at 200 - 220lbs, certainly the would be an incentive, I just don't think shorter guys bulking up like them or with muscle like adamek is a good idea. I still think you need something between 175 & 200 though, as I've already mentioned in an earlier post the mma structure i think is workable if there was an overhaul of the weight classes as union mentioned.

sohotnot wrote:I would hope the likes of Arreola & Solis could come in in shape & fight at 200 - 220lbs, certainly the would be an incentive

Good luck with that. Solis has never weighed less than 246 for a pro fight. The man trains with his buddies Colonel Sanders, Ronald McDonald & Mr Kipling. Disgraceful - he could make 230 with a bit of work though.

Corrie Sanders was in the army was he????

That's the kfc guy truss

Mr Bounce wrote:

sohotnot wrote:I would hope the likes of Arreola & Solis could come in in shape & fight at 200 - 220lbs, certainly the would be an incentive

Good luck with that. Solis has never weighed less than 246 for a pro fight. The man trains with his buddies Colonel Sanders, Ronald McDonald & Mr Kipling. Disgraceful - he could make 230 with a bit of work though.

That's the KFC guy Truss.....

no s**t

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:That's the KFC guy Truss.....

no s**t

Well you are american

Capital "A"

No, Washington, DC

Good night Shah........

Bright and early for you tomorrow young sir for a geography lesson.

Rowley wrote:There will always be a temptation for cruisers to move up to heavy just on economic grounds you do have to think if there was the likes of Lewis, Bowe and Tyson in the division with half way capable contenders such as Mercer and Rahman below them the temptation to move up would be nowhere near as strong as more talent, if such a word is not misused, would be tempted to stay at cruiser. Think they move up now because they can get away with it against the dross.

n.

I would actually argue that in this age it is even harder to win a belt as the HW division is totally dominated by the Klitschkos who do not look like losing to anyone. I don't think the CW's are moving up because they think they can win a title because none of them stand a chance against a Klitschko. They are simply moving up for the better pay days.

Not so much about the champions Victor but those below them, they can move up now and make a living by being a contender which they couldn't have done in the 90's without having a fair bit of talent in the first place.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Not so much about the champions Victor but those below them, they can move up now and make a living by being a contender which they couldn't have done in the 90's without having a fair bit of talent in the first place.

Another example of whats wrong in modern boxing, paying the 2nd least talented division the highest purse. What is it with people wanting to watch talentless fatties fight & the promoters paying them so much? Surely the size shouldn't be the issue, biggers better (just watch that awful promotion on eurosport)? The only reason HW isn't the worst division is because CW's with or without talent are moving up to HW making the division a little thin on the ground!

Probably because even a fatty would kill anyone in the other divisions. We appreciate that boxing has its levels and weights and watch accordingly. To the casual man, the heavyweight champion of the world is the hardest man on the planet.

ShahenshahG wrote:Probably because even a fatty would kill anyone in the other divisions. We appreciate that boxing has its levels and weights and watch accordingly. To the casual man, the heavyweight champion of the world is the hardest man on the planet.

Unless that casual man is Gordy then its Joe Calzaghe, apart from being talented, having class he'd beat either K Bro!

To be honest the casual fan is as fed up as us with those fatties masquerading as HW boxers/hardest men on the planet.

I still think most guys, outside of Germany that is, want to see exciting fights ala Gatti vs Ward, Morales vs Barrera etc

Its difficult to get those sort of fights because the big men can knock each other out flat with the first clean punch and they dont have the stamina to throw enough punches to make it that way. 220-240 is the ideal weight anything more than that and its a serious drag on speed/stamina. Check out Buster mathis vs Joe frazier they guy moves like a lightweight weighs like butterbean

ShahenshahG wrote:Its difficult to get those sort of fights because the big men can knock each other out flat with the first clean punch and they dont have the stamina to throw enough punches to make it that way. 220-240 is the ideal weight anything more than that and its a serious drag on speed/stamina. Check out Buster mathis vs Joe frazier they guy moves like a lightweight weighs like butterbean

I've heard this so many times yet we don't see it that often, more often its drawn out points decisions unless its an obvious mismatch. The K bros don't deliver many devastating ko's either. People just got to except the HW's aren't delivering anymore & they are unlikely to in the foreseeable future, its no longer the golden division it was. Also their is no reason a big guy cant have great stamina, we've had it in the past, just sounds like excuses to me.

sohotnot wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Its difficult to get those sort of fights because the big men can knock each other out flat with the first clean punch and they dont have the stamina to throw enough punches to make it that way. 220-240 is the ideal weight anything more than that and its a serious drag on speed/stamina. Check out Buster mathis vs Joe frazier they guy moves like a lightweight weighs like butterbean

I've heard this so many times yet we don't see it that often, more often its drawn out points decisions unless its an obvious mismatch. The K bros don't deliver many devastating ko's either. People just got to except the HW's aren't delivering anymore & they are unlikely to in the foreseeable future, its no longer the golden division it was. Also their is no reason a big guy cant have great stamina, we've had it in the past, just sounds like excuses to me.

Wlad is still knocking out opponents and has knocked out 7 put of his last 9 opponents. Vitali has knocked out 3 of his last 5 but the guy is approaching 42 so he has lost his power.

Audley harrisson knocking out sprott is a good example. David price knocked out all of his opponents before his las fight.

The HW division is the golden division because non boxing fans are interested in it. People are going to be more impressed by a guy that is 6ft 6 and 120 kilos than a guy who is 5ft 8 and 66 kilos. yes the smaller guys may have more skills but the 'wow' factor of watching a guy twie your size is what attracts non boxing fans to watch the biggest HW fights.

victorgarco wrote:

sohotnot wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Its difficult to get those sort of fights because the big men can knock each other out flat with the first clean punch and they dont have the stamina to throw enough punches to make it that way. 220-240 is the ideal weight anything more than that and its a serious drag on speed/stamina. Check out Buster mathis vs Joe frazier they guy moves like a lightweight weighs like butterbean

I've heard this so many times yet we don't see it that often, more often its drawn out points decisions unless its an obvious mismatch. The K bros don't deliver many devastating ko's either. People just got to except the HW's aren't delivering anymore & they are unlikely to in the foreseeable future, its no longer the golden division it was. Also their is no reason a big guy cant have great stamina, we've had it in the past, just sounds like excuses to me.

Wlad is still knocking out opponents and has knocked out 7 put of his last 9 opponents. Vitali has knocked out 3 of his last 5 but the guy is approaching 42 so he has lost his power.

Audley harrisson knocking out sprott is a good example. David price knocked out all of his opponents before his las fight.

The HW division is the golden division because non boxing fans are interested in it. People are going to be more impressed by a guy that is 6ft 6 and 120 kilos than a guy who is 5ft 8 and 66 kilos. yes the smaller guys may have more skills but the 'wow' factor of watching a guy twie your size is what attracts non boxing fans to watch the biggest HW fights.

Yes in the later stages of mundane fights. We are not seeing Tyson, Benn, Julian Jackson, Hearns, Donaire style ko's though are we. Hatton was the biggest draw in UK boxing, Floyd in the US with Manny coming pretty close, Gatti, Morales, Barrera always sold well. I think we gonna have to agree to disagree, the HW's haven't appealed to me in a long time, its the hype that surrounds it that is keeping this alive & in my opinion unjust. When Wlad finally retires you won't have a HW in the p4p list. With regards to Price its what I said before mostly its in mismatchs or low level. You should check out Mackems link to Julian Jackson on a thread a couple of weeks ago, a real ko artist.

There is such a wow fighter about the Klits...........That they are stuck in Germany and not on PPV...........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:There is such a wow fighter about the Klits...........That they are stuck in Germany and not on PPV...........

Something that we must thank them & the German fans for!

You are addicted to creating threads and you have run out of ideas