James Toney

Afternoon gents,

Lights out is as well known for his weight as he is for his boxing these days. However to even be competitive at heavyweight having come up from middleweight is mightily impressive let alone some of the states he came in at.

He has an impressive resume with world titles at middle, super middle and cruiserweight. So where does he stand in the grand scheme of things and what could he have done if he hadn't constantly blown up and dabbled with the odd band substance? Or are his weight fluctuations what made him a name?

Highly underrated fighter was James Toney...probably because he was such an a**hole...

However for me I think he's bordering on being great...........by today's standards!

Nunn was a masterful middle and unbeaten..certainly top 10 all time for me.....MCallum was a good victory I thought he beat him twice!! and Reggie Johnson was a quality fighter..

Moved up to 168 and completely outclassed barkley and knocked out an underrated Charles Williams..

Two defeats to Montell Griffin hurt him a little..jones is a legend so we'll forgive him that...

As for Heavy ...for any middle to compete with the Holys of the world albeit slide ones and Ruiz is good stuff....

But for me his legacy was made lower down...

Like terry Norris much underrated...

I think the fact he has increased his weight by 50 kilos in his career but is still winning fights shows how good he is.

His biggest fight was against the English language

Top draw talent with very ordinary application. The sky was pretty much the limit for Toney, barring the Jones loss I think better application of himself would have seen him reverse most of his poor results.

Under-rated over-rated, depends on whose rating your thinking of. On here I think he's over-rated. Chris, who'se boxing knowledge far outweighs mine, thinks he's one of the great talents.

I actually, think that what he achieved as a lard arse above his best weights... Jirov etc is arguably more impressive than his career at middle.... Which was very good win followed by very average performance... And the average ones seem to be regularly over-looked. Clearly very good, but the jones fight, especially the manner of it, separates the very good from the great... And there are some who don't think jones is a true great.

Jones is an undoubted true great!!.......

Benitez types miss out as well then..If not.

Take your point truss, its borderline for me. Had the toney debate a few times on here, and usually I'm countering a eulogy. I do rate him, but he could be outboxed... Nunn, jones, griffin... Out worked.. Tiberi. Got Mccallum at the right time really. As many questions as answers at middle/super for me.

Jones is great, Benitez isn't quite great.

lest it wasn't clear from my earlier post, i'm one of those that do thinks jones is a great

Toney is rated highly by people who love old timers. They say he fights like one. Persnally he was a good boxer, very talented but thats about it. Were it not for his weight and mouth, he would be quickly forgotten.

Have made my views on Toney well known in the past, and most are probably sick to the back teeth of hearing about them, but here we go - just one more time!

One of my favourite fighters to watch, and an insane talent in my eyes - one of the most naturally gifted boxers of the modern age I'd say, in fact. Not blindingly quick (though certainly no slouch either!) but he could punch with either hand, could jab with the best of them when he wanted to, was an extremely accurate puncher who wasted little, had (and still has) one hell of a chin and had one of the best defences inside I've seen. No holding or spoiling ala Hopkins, just great movement, ability to roll with shots and counter at the right moment.

Wouldn't have minded him adding something else of Hopkins' to his arsenal, mind you - namely some of that dedication, focus and professionalism!

However, big fan though I am, you'll never catch me calling Toney an all-time great. Modern great perhaps, and an all-time very good, but there is a barren run lasting a whole eight years from 1994 to 2002 (so basically, from the defeat against Jones to the career-saving win over Jirov) which costs him his place amongst the true immortals.

Damn good career by anyone's standards, but still a disappointment for me. Had he had the dedication to match his talent, he could have been ranked alongside the Haglers, Pacquiaos and Arguellos or this world, in my opinion.

I think Toney's most difficult opponent was Wendy's. I don't think he ever beat them...

That said I am with Chris here - a fantastic talent, but could have been so much more with a bit more application and self control. His trash talk was always amusing though.

Mr Bounce wrote:I think Toney's most difficult opponent was Wendy's. I don't think he ever beat them...

That said I am with Chris here - a fantastic talent, but could have been so much more with a bit more application and self control. His trash talk was always amusing though.

Got to admire the mans heart, he might never have beaten Wendy's but he kept going back for more punishment.

milkyboy wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:I think Toney's most difficult opponent was Wendy's. I don't think he ever beat them...

That said I am with Chris here - a fantastic talent, but could have been so much more with a bit more application and self control. His trash talk was always amusing though.

Got to admire the mans heart, he might never have beaten Wendy's but he kept going back for more punishment.

They should have cast Toney in Monty Python.