Who is the greatest ever Rugby player!??

First topic message reminder :

They are debating for is the GOAT sportsman on the boxing board. But cant really think of a rugby player that shines out..


My top 4 would be campese, MJ, Edwards and Lumo..

viewtothegym wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:What did you like most about Serge Blanco madge?

I liked the fact that he could smoke about 60 fags a day, and run like the greyhound all day.

Hardly the credentials for the world's greatest player, many from back in them days used to smoke,some players would back then would play whilst tipsy from drinking cans on the bus.

viewtothegym

Did you ever see Serge Blanco play? If you did you know that his running line's and running out from under his goal post was very much the trend for Blanco. Rarely did you see him kick the ball out of hand, He always or nearly always ran with the ball in hand. that is what makes him such a great player in my opinion.

Did he Madge? what games? when?

Just about every game he ever played in, View.

Probably easiest just to direct you to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X50vaqyxZZA

Just check off the number of times the great man appears.

I remember reading an article in the cape times during the last World Cup I think when they described Gareth Edwards as the greatest ever.... Quite a nomination thinking the boks probably have loads of players that would be in the running themselves.

Saffas are more humble then you think!!.... Ok maybe the writer had a welsh father or something

Andy Powell

Suprised how few mentions for BOD - I have always been a huge fan - he never gives less than everything and has such a talent for creating and finding space. Inspirational leader as well

TJ wrote:Suprised how few mentions for BOD - I have always been a huge fan - he never gives less than everything and has such a talent for creating and finding space. Inspirational leader as well

Phenomenal turn over rate. He scores like a top flanker some games

majesticimperialman wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:What did you like most about Serge Blanco madge?

I liked the fact that he could smoke about 60 fags a day, and run like the greyhound all day.

Hardly the credentials for the world's greatest player, many from back in them days used to smoke,some players would back then would play whilst tipsy from drinking cans on the bus.

viewtothegym

Did you ever see Serge Blanco play? If you did you know that his running line's and running out from under his goal post was very much the trend for Blanco. Rarely did you see him kick the ball out of hand, He always or nearly always ran with the ball in hand. that is what makes him such a great player in my opinion.

I didn't see much of him but what I sort of remember was a silky runner that used to kick a lot to avoid the tackle and not a brilliant defender.

With all respect BOD can't be placed I the greatest ever group... Perhaps greatest Irishman of the pro era... But that's it.

Guscott was far superior in his day... He's record speaks for himself.... And yet sella and horan at the time were probably better than him.... Although only marginal.

People need to have slightly longer memories than the last 5 years... Fourie and smith have been far superior in my mind anyhow over that period.

I remember watching the likes of Campese, Blanco, and Gerber in the early 80's and wishing we had backs like them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlHVuoE1d18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tye5fy7BbTc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE7sXwcbOgY

Makes you nostalgic to think back to an era where so many south african rugby stars were prohibited to display their talents on a world stage because of the politics in our country.

The players in that era would have been world beaters, Serfontein, Botha, gerber, Carel Du Plessis, Jaco Reinach etc.

Great players all. I remember watching the overseas team against the 5 nations side in 1986. The combined SH backline of Loveridge, Botha, DuPlessis, Taylor, Gerber, Kirwin and Gould was on fire (I can only imagine how good they would have been with Papworth at inside centre, Campese at full back and Farr Jones at halfback).

There were a few gnarly forwards there to. Uli Smidt, Shalk Berger Snr and a bunch of others. Very hard men for the time.

It would have been interesting. It's a shame politics effected the teams. I think the first time a full strength All Black team playing in the republic was 1992. Some great players being either refused entry or refusing to go. Even the 1981 tour in NZ was affected by player unavailability for the All Blacks. The isolation cut both ways, almost all games became home tests against weakened opposition.

I'm not saying he's the greatest, but seeing as he hasn't been mentioned yet, I'm going to do it: Thomas Castaignede. He was just brilliant to watch, never afraid to try things. I'd kill to have been able to play like him.

Also, Christophe Dominici. A fine little winger and brave too.

Honorable mention to Jason Robinson? not only for the tries and the electric running, but also the way that he was always working, always putting his body on the line even when things were not going his way and he'd been smashed up.

lostinwales

Just imagine what he would have been like had he not played his first 8 odd years in league. He was playing for GB league in his early 20s and would have easily made the ENG union side around the same time had he grown up say 100 miles south of Lancashire... unless he couldn't oust Tony Underwood & Jon Sleightholme (unlikely).

Then again with Rowell at the helm he may have been too bright a spark to put in his side.

There are a fair few AB back-rowers who'd be candidates - Kirkpatrick, Whetton, Mexted, Shelford, McCaw et al. And Carter, of course.

But of the ones I've seen, I'd go for Gareth Edwards.

From what I've read from the likes of Cliff Morgan (who called him incomparable), Jackie Kyle would be in there somewhere, but I have only seen a couple of clips on video.

Eales was about as good a 2nd row as you'll get.

Campese had loads of flair but was prone to some mad moments too.

Sella was the best all round centre I've seen, along with O'Driscoll.

JR might not have developed the same way though. As far as I can remember he went off the rails when he was young and then really turned his life around, and maybe changing sports was the final part of that process.

He brought a lot of league skills with him too. His transition to Union was unusual if not uniquely effective.

I agree... had he had the usual union late 80s/early 90s dull ENG backplay drilled into him he may have been just another pace man.

On another note... such a difficult topic. Those who hail/live from GB & IRE will always go for our own players esp. in terms of those who played pre 1980s (given very few of us are were born pre 70s). Its natural.

My father in law has seen quite a number of lions tours in SA over the years and most of them bar 74 & 97 were winning tours. Throw in guys like Frik Du Preez and Mannetjies Roux (his own personal favourite... whom he still vouches for to this day as the greatest bok thats ever lived).

Given SA and NZ were so dominant (even more so then now) the best players from the amateur era would surely have come from those 2 countries in all likelihood.

It's an interesting discussion and almost impossible to reach any sort of definitive conclusion. The different skill sets required for various positions makes it pretty well impossible to compare the merits even of Gareth Edwards and Jonah Lomu, never mind adding in Fitzpatrick or Michael Jones. And then you have the transition from amateur to professional and the (inevitable) objective improvements in standards.

The only thing I will say is that for me, Lomu had the biggest impact for what he did in the 95 RWC and for the few years either side when he was fit. A star that burned extremely brightly but for a short time - may not be sufficient to class him as the GOAT, but certainly the one player who transcended the sport.

Dummy

I said previously...Lomu was the first superstar of world rugby..where even people who had no idea of what rugby was knew who he was....

GeordieFalcon wrote:Dummy

I said previously...Lomu was the first superstar of world rugby..where even people who had no idea of what rugby was knew who he was....

Yep. Interesting that you make that comment, as the motivation for this thread came from a thread originally on the boxing board that suggested Sugar Ray Robinson was a good candidate for the GOAT of all sports. While many boxing fans would rate SRR as the greatest boxer ever, those with a more casual association with the sport would consider Ali as the best ever and as the guy who really transcended the sport (in a way that only a few others such as Jordan have done).

Lomu transcended rugby, but does that make him the best ever rugby player? There's a strong case that he was the greatest threat ball in hand there's been, but there were flaws in his game, particularly in defence. However, contrary to some, I think he'd still have been effective in this era, as it wasn't just bulk that made him so brilliant, but that he was both very fast for his size and incredibly powerful, and he knew how to exploit these attributes (something Bananaman doesn't do to anything like the same level).

Trancending your sport isnt always the best evidence of being the best ever. E.g. football and Beckham

watching Lomu go through the entire French pack in 99 for his 2nd try was sheer freightening as much as it was awesome. When I met him in the ABs 97 UK tour we built him up so much that I was expecting this giant and to be perfectly honest... he wasn't that much bigger than every other rugby player around.... so it goes to show, he wasn't just all size.

We won't see another of his kind for a hundred years.

I agree he was the first to transend...the first Rugby superstar...BUT he wasnt the greatest ever.

I personally think Cristian Cullen was a FAR better player than Lomu...and probably created half Lomu's tries...

you serious.... Lomu created most of his own... by bulldozing his way through defences.

I was myself going to say that from what I recall... Lomu dragged in so many players that come the next recycle the gaps in the defence were big enough for Brad Barritt to run through.

Not taking anything away from Cullen.... shame he was so injury prone... rugby was robbed of half this guys career.

CBA to read back but has anyone mentioned Henson yet?

who cares about being the greatest when you can forge a living opening supermarkets in Merthyr off the back of a nother reality z list show???

Jokes aside, I'm glad he's back playing... he is a decent player and was a terrible face of rugby to the wider public.

fa0019 wrote:With all respect BOD can't be placed I the greatest ever group... Perhaps greatest Irishman of the pro era... But that's it.

Guscott was far superior in his day... He's record speaks for himself.... And yet sella and horan at the time were probably better than him.... Although only marginal.

People need to have slightly longer memories than the last 5 years... Fourie and smith have been far superior in my mind anyhow over that period.

"Gusgott was far superior in his day". Oh dear. He may have played for a more sucessful team, thats about it.

Jacques Fourie doesnt come close. Not even by a long margin. Fourie had a few stellar years, thats it. Shouldnt even appear in the same sentence.

Conrad Smith does come close and is a better player now but BOD at his best v Smith at his best and BOD wins every time. More strings to his bow.

Jaques Fourie doesn't come close?

He has one of the best try scoring strike rates at outside centre in world rugby, and that in a back line notorius for no flair?

Chabal is a good shout, he's also the only player that I can think of with his own soft toy (def not a cuddly toy though!!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSWRoO3U3xg

I think that wraps that question up then.

Serge Blanco is getting mentioned a great deal but for me he will never compare with JPR in full flight.

I'm not sure either could be mentioned as the greatest player ever though, for me it has to be Gareth.

... and yes, I did watch them all play, many times.

Biltong wrote:Jaques Fourie doesn't come close?

He has one of the best try scoring strike rates at outside centre in world rugby, and that in a back line notorius for no flair?

Yes he doesnt come close.
-He has 32 tries to O'Driscolls 46 (including 8 against France).
-Fourie played for a stronger team and therefore should have more try scoring opportunities.
-He lasted for a shorter period at the highest level than Drico. BOD is older yet still going strong, Fourie at age 29 plays in Japan.
-Never captained his country.
-Not as good in defense, not as good on the ground either.
-Arguably not as good in attack either.

Pretty comprehensive I'd say. I would select BOD any day ahead of Fourie.

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:Jaques Fourie doesn't come close?

He has one of the best try scoring strike rates at outside centre in world rugby, and that in a back line notorius for no flair?

Yes he doesnt come close.
-He has 32 tries to O'Driscolls 46 (including 8 against France).
-Fourie played for a stronger team and therefore should have more try scoring opportunities.
-He lasted for a shorter period at the highest level than Drico. BOD is older yet still going strong, Fourie at age 29 plays in Japan.
-Never captained his country.
-Not as good in defense, not as good on the ground either.
-Arguably not as good in attack either.

Pretty comprehensive I'd say. I would select BOD any day ahead of Fourie.

He has 32 tries in 60 odd matches, O'Driscoll has 46 in a hundred and how many?
He didn't last for a shorter period, he was kept our of the team for long due to quota's, Adie Jacobs was never an international class centre, but was selected over Fourie for many a year, it was only due to injury to Jacobs that Fourie eventually became a regular.
Fourie went to Japan for something like 1.25 million
So you are now comparing best centre with best captain?
Not good in defence, what are you on mate?
Not good in attack? Wow.

Didnt say he wasnt good in defense or attack i said not as good which is true.

The thread is about great players. There are lots of characteristics of great players, leadership being one. Clearly Drico is a better leader because of the amount of times he captained his club and country.

Not sure i believe the quota arguement.

Anyone can go to Japan and get lots of money. Great players choose ambition over fortune. How much would Drico have earned in Japan. Plenty Im sure but hes moee concerned with constantly raising the bar.

Ask any South African and unbiased rugby fan who is better Adie (turnstyle ) Jacobs or Jaque Fourie.

Nothing more needs to be said

The age divide kicks in dramatically in these debates.

Serge Blanco, great player but those who have only watched highlights of him would think he was always running around, when he wasn't "smoking fags"...! He had pace and an eye for exploiting his pace, plus the cajones to back himself but he wasn't a great all rounder, his defence was awful.

Likewise Barry John is remembered as a great running flyhalf, he wasn't he was the best kicking flyhalf the game has ever seen. He was fast, he could exploit a defence, he could move the ball. But as a kicker, he could ruin an international full backs career...

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:Jaques Fourie doesn't come close?

He has one of the best try scoring strike rates at outside centre in world rugby, and that in a back line notorius for no flair?

Yes he doesnt come close.
-He has 32 tries to O'Driscolls 46 (including 8 against France).
-Fourie played for a stronger team and therefore should have more try scoring opportunities.
-He lasted for a shorter period at the highest level than Drico. BOD is older yet still going strong, Fourie at age 29 plays in Japan.
-Never captained his country.
-Not as good in defense, not as good on the ground either.
-Arguably not as good in attack either.

Pretty comprehensive I'd say. I would select BOD any day ahead of Fourie.

He has 32 tries in 60 odd matches, O'Driscoll has 46 in a hundred and how many?
He didn't last for a shorter period, he was kept our of the team for long due to quota's, Adie Jacobs was never an international class centre, but was selected over Fourie for many a year, it was only due to injury to Jacobs that Fourie eventually became a regular.
Fourie went to Japan for something like 1.25 million
So you are now comparing best centre with best captain?
Not good in defence, what are you on mate?
Not good in attack? Wow.

he is a mindless thug though

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:Jaques Fourie doesn't come close?

He has one of the best try scoring strike rates at outside centre in world rugby, and that in a back line notorius for no flair?

Yes he doesnt come close.
-He has 32 tries to O'Driscolls 46 (including 8 against France).
-Fourie played for a stronger team and therefore should have more try scoring opportunities.
-He lasted for a shorter period at the highest level than Drico. BOD is older yet still going strong, Fourie at age 29 plays in Japan.
-Never captained his country.
-Not as good in defense, not as good on the ground either.
-Arguably not as good in attack either.

Pretty comprehensive I'd say. I would select BOD any day ahead of Fourie.

He has 32 tries in 60 odd matches, O'Driscoll has 46 in a hundred and how many?
He didn't last for a shorter period, he was kept our of the team for long due to quota's, Adie Jacobs was never an international class centre, but was selected over Fourie for many a year, it was only due to injury to Jacobs that Fourie eventually became a regular.
Fourie went to Japan for something like 1.25 million
So you are now comparing best centre with best captain?
Not good in defence, what are you on mate?
Not good in attack? Wow.

he is a mindless thug though

Who O'Driscoll?



Nah, he is a decent bloke.

Guscott was only better because he played in a better team? Really

Well he pretty much won the lions series in 89 and was instrumental in both 93 and 97.... Drico's only real contribution was a breakaway try in 01. He was injured in 05 but in 09 he didn't grab the series like he should have done and the Staffa centres outclassed him. In world cups he's been pretty average.... There have always been better players around albeit not many.

Guscott proved himself time and time again.... Mcgeechan knew it and I would bet he would rate guscott over drico having coached the two.

Biltong... Personally I thought Jacobs was misused by white especially. He had a great outside break, was a little suspect in defence but I do think the boks ignored him.. Chiefly because they played and still play one dimensional centre play (in all honesty... Jdv,Fourie, steyn), all are route 1 players. He certainly didn't get the chance other players did to stake their claim... Something I think can be laid on white's door.

I'd have Fourie over bod any day of the week.

Hand on heart as an all round player I'd go for BOD over Guscott. As an attacker you would want Guscott tho. He had imagination (THAT drop goal) and was a beautifully balanced runner.

Guscott - lovely attacking runner but drifted but BOD has the git for making crucial interventions at crucial times. Maybe not the most talented player but a heart like a lion

This thread is pretty doomed seeing as we can't even agree on the set outside centre of the past decade never mind the best player in any position of any time!

One of the best centre pairings I've ever seen was Jamie Roberts and Jaques Fourie for the Baa-Baas against the All Blacks (I think it was the All Blacks) a few seasons ago. They were such a good pairing that I remember almost feeling sad that they'd probably never play alongside each other again.

For me best 9 ever was Joost. Honorable mention Greegan.

maestegmafia wrote:The age divide kicks in dramatically in these debates.

Serge Blanco, great player but those who have only watched highlights of him would think he was always running around, when he wasn't "smoking fags"...! He had pace and an eye for exploiting his pace, plus the cajones to back himself but he wasn't a great all rounder, his defence was awful.

Likewise Barry John is remembered as a great running flyhalf, he wasn't he was the best kicking flyhalf the game has ever seen. He was fast, he could exploit a defence, he could move the ball. But as a kicker, he could ruin an international full backs career...

Yes, Barry John's tactical kicking for the Lions in 1971 ended Fergie McCormick's career as the All Blacks fullback. Apparently, in the previous provincial game, Carwyn James said one word - "interesting" - in Welsh to Barry John as they both watched McCormick from the stand. It was enough!