The RWC pool draws - live

First topic message reminder :

THE POOL ALLOCATION DRAW WILL BE STREAMED LIVE ON RUGBYWORLDCUP.COM FROM 14:55 UK TIME ON 3 DECEMBER (15:55 CET, 16:55 (South Africa), 11:55 (Argentina), 01:55 4 December (NSW Australia), 03:55 4 December (New Zealand, Fiji), 04:55 4 December (Samoa)

Featuring Boris Johnson amongst the glitterati so it's anyone's guess what sort of a dick he'll make of himself.
(note to IRB: the RWC was granted to England, not London).
p.s. good call not inviting Cameron though.

I can't find any mention of the event on the ITV* schedules which as UK host broadcaster is disappointing up to the point when one realises that that font of rugby wisdom, Steve Rider will not be anchoring the event.

[ed: beg puddin.
Monday 3rd December
IRB Rugby World Cup 2015 – Pool Stage Draw
LIVE: 2.45pm-3.30pm – ITV4

EnglishReign wrote:The Aussies must be a bit gutted. Top seeds but having to play England at Twickers and Wales at the MS = not easy.

Again, Wales will not, repeat WILL NOT be playing any top nations at the MS. Only the 4th and 5th seed games. We've been told that much already.

Biltong wrote:

AlastairW wrote:

Biltong wrote:

wales606 wrote:It's ok Biltong. We will take care of those troublesome Aussies for you

That'll be cool mate, then we can take care of you in the quarters.

Haven't had a chance to say welcome back yet Bilt. Good to see you again

Even the banter is making me realise that both my heart & liver and going to take a thrashing in a few years time; i might even have to re-mortgage the house to go to every game! Happy days!

mate you only need to win your pool though.

Looking at the draw it looks likely that we will once again have the SH big three on one side of the draw and the NH on the other.

I know there's a buzz after all the group picks but looking at the absolute rollercoaster for all NH sides over the last 10 months (not even a year!), it's all just too far off to make any kind of call. It's entirely possible that England and/or Wales implode, or just take off and sky rocket, or Les Bleus come in and tonk the daylights out of us all!

I'll just enjoy the build up, and look no further than the 6N for the time being, i know that sounds a bit dull but looking at the WUMing already taking place on other sites i'd rather do that than end up eating my words later on.

Biltong wrote:

AlastairW wrote:

Biltong wrote:

wales606 wrote:It's ok Biltong. We will take care of those troublesome Aussies for you

That'll be cool mate, then we can take care of you in the quarters.

Haven't had a chance to say welcome back yet Bilt. Good to see you again

Even the banter is making me realise that both my heart & liver and going to take a thrashing in a few years time; i might even have to re-mortgage the house to go to every game! Happy days!

mate you only need to win your pool though.

Looking at the draw it looks likely that we will once again have the SH big three on one side of the draw and the NH on the other.

How do you work that out then, Biltongbek?

Griff wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:The Aussies must be a bit gutted. Top seeds but having to play England at Twickers and Wales at the MS = not easy.

Again, Wales will not, repeat WILL NOT be playing any top nations at the MS. Only the 4th and 5th seed games. We've been told that much already.

And hopefully, none at all, one would assume.

Pothale, NZ and SA are on the same side of the draw, if Australia comes second in their pool they play us.

Apart from stating the obvious WHY a draw so long before the RWC,the Groups stage is only important stastically.
RWC`s to have only been won to date by sides who have won all there matches.
It is perfectly possible to lose one even two matches in the Group stage reach a Final and win the RWC as France nearly proved .Or Indeed England in 1991 they ran Aus. close on that occassion.
What IS certain the carefully planned groupings for the QFs WON`T happen there
will be surprises.
In Englands group for example it may well be Australia and Wales progress,in KO tournaments anything can happen.I hope not but playing devils advocate here.
My Thoughts on RWC`s are well known and have`nt changed don`t care a stuff who wins it.BUT I would like to see a new name on it before I die and realistically 2015 is probably the last i`ll see.

Pot Hale wrote:

Griff wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:The Aussies must be a bit gutted. Top seeds but having to play England at Twickers and Wales at the MS = not easy.

Again, Wales will not, repeat WILL NOT be playing any top nations at the MS. Only the 4th and 5th seed games. We've been told that much already.

And hopefully, none at all, one would assume.

If I had my way, yes. But I think we will play a few there unfortunately.

well england have home advantage and have depth. australia have depth and will have alot of support here- wales have a lot of support here- the tv peops in all honesty will not be happy with this group!!

Biltong wrote:Pothale, NZ and SA are on the same side of the draw, if Australia comes second in their pool they play us.

Yeah but if Australia were in Pool D and came second, they'd play NZ. I don't quite get your point. Would you prefer all three teams met in the final?

Of course not that would be daft.

Usually when looking at seeds, you'll find in any knock out tournament that 1 and 2 are on opposite sides of the draw, hence they will meet in the final.

In this case it won't happen

In 2011 both finalists were in the same pool. In 2007 both finalists were in the same pool. So England v Wales final is a possibility (or Ireland v France)

mystiroakey wrote:well england have home advantage and have depth. australia have depth and will have alot of support here- wales have a lot of support here- the tv peops in all honesty will not be happy with this group!!

Of course they will, Wales Vs England is the perfect curtain raiser / opener for the tournament, then maybe England will play Russia / romania and Fiji after to have a rest, and in the final game they can play Australia in what will be in theory the pool decider.

Pot Hale wrote:

Biltong wrote:Pothale, NZ and SA are on the same side of the draw, if Australia comes second in their pool they play us.

Yeah but if Australia were in Pool D and came second, they'd play NZ. I don't quite get your point. Would you prefer all three teams met in the final?

Winner pool A
Second pool A
Winner pool B
Second pool B
Winner pool C
Second pool C
Winner pool D
Second pool D

Quarters
(1) WPA vs SPB
(2) WPB vs SPA
(3) WPC vs SPD
(4) WPD vs SPC

Semi
(1) vs (4)
(2) vs (3)

So, based on rankings

Winner pool A - Australia
Second pool A - England
Winner pool B - South Africa
Second pool B - Samoa
Winner pool C - New Zealand
Second pool C - Argentina
Winner pool D - France
Second pool D - Ireland

Quarters
(1) Australia vs Samoa
(2) South Africa vs England
(3) New Zealand vs Ireland
(4) France vs Argentina

Semi
Australia vs France
South Africa vs New Zealand

Final
Australia vs New Zealand

Winner
New Zealand

Biltong wrote:Of course not that would be daft.

Usually when looking at seeds, you'll find in any knock out tournament that 1 and 2 are on opposite sides of the draw, hence they will meet in the final.

In this case it won't happen

Well the RWC structure doesn't seed like that.

Thankfully. Anyway, who's 1 and 2? Right now, it's NZ and SA. It might be different by the time the RWC comes round.

Of course, SA could decide to drop a match against Samoa if it matters that much.

HammerofThunor wrote:In 2011 both finalists were in the same pool. In 2007 both finalists were in the same pool. So England v Wales final is a possibility (or Ireland v France)

True Hammer.

I was just trying to work out if any two teams could meet the other in the final.

Shifty wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:well england have home advantage and have depth. australia have depth and will have alot of support here- wales have a lot of support here- the tv peops in all honesty will not be happy with this group!!

Of course they will, Wales Vs England is the perfect curtain raiser / opener for the tournament, then maybe England will play Russia / romania and Fiji after to have a rest, and in the final game they can play Australia in what will be in theory the pool decider.

one team has to go out at group stages- thats at least one less game for the tv

the opening game will clearly be england v australia anyway- there is also a chance that england may go out- when home teams go out the tourny is dead

mystiroakey wrote:

Shifty wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:well england have home advantage and have depth. australia have depth and will have alot of support here- wales have a lot of support here- the tv peops in all honesty will not be happy with this group!!

Of course they will, Wales Vs England is the perfect curtain raiser / opener for the tournament, then maybe England will play Russia / romania and Fiji after to have a rest, and in the final game they can play Australia in what will be in theory the pool decider.

one team has to go out at group stages- thats at least one less game for the tv

the opening game will clearly be england v australia anyway- there is also a chance that england may go out- when home teams go out the tourny is dead

Why Australia v England?

Is it not more likely to be England v Fiji?

what a boring start.

Well it was NZ v Tonga last time and not v France.

Just sayin like....

Better to have a boring start to work our way into it. It would also give us the chance of rectifying the problem if we lose to Fiji.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Could have been a lot worse for Wales...! Neither of the tier two and one teams in our group are as consistently as NZ or SA so that bodes well for our chances of qualifying.

Pretty happy with that

Maes,

Lets hope you are right but if the WC was now then we wouldn't qualify and a lot will have to happen for me to change my mind. With Howley and Co in charge for the 6 Nations we will be battling it out for the spoon.

That may be... We might suffer further injuries before and we might not see the lads who are currently out return. We may see the players that are still walking drop form further.


Then again to be honest, we have been close to the Aussies for the last 12 months and England we are pretty evens on results with...!

Maes,

We may have been close to the Aussies but will we ever learn how to close a game out, everytime its this will make us stronger and we will learn from this but we never seem to.

Until we do then we won't beat any of the big boys constantly.

We have closed out plenty of close games before. England and Ireland were close last six nations.

You have to give some credit to the Aussies for being able to close out close games they are losing. There's a bloody good reason why they are always in the top three in the rankings.

Can't see Ireland beating France. Unless it's just being in England that turns them to jelly and not actually facing the English team.

But I quite like the prospect of playing New Zealand in the quarters I have to say. Big match. Huge underdogs. It's when we play best. Have Ireland faced New Zealand in a RWC before?

I also think there'll be massive Irish travelling support. As well as the fact that there are huge numbers of Irish people living in England anyway. So it'll be great craic. And there'd be pretty much no nerves among the fans if facing New Zealand. Just a huge party in anticipation of our heroic defeat and exit.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Can't see Ireland beating France. Unless it's just being in England that turns them to jelly and not actually facing the English team.

But I quite like the prospect of playing New Zealand in the quarters I have to say. Big match. Huge underdogs. It's when we play best. Have Ireland faced New Zealand in a RWC before?

I also think there'll be massive Irish travelling support. As well as the fact that there are huge numbers of Irish people living in England anyway. So it'll be great craic. And there'd be pretty much no nerves among the fans if facing New Zealand. Just a huge party in anticipation of our heroic defeat and exit.

Right...that does it. Im definitely going now. Can't have our boys under supported by this happy mob!

Pot Hale wrote:

Biltong wrote:Of course not that would be daft.

Usually when looking at seeds, you'll find in any knock out tournament that 1 and 2 are on opposite sides of the draw, hence they will meet in the final.

In this case it won't happen

Well the RWC structure doesn't seed like that.

Thankfully. Anyway, who's 1 and 2? Right now, it's NZ and SA. It might be different by the time the RWC comes round.

Of course, SA could decide to drop a match against Samoa if it matters that much.

I thought the whole purpose of the rankings at the end of this year is to establish who is 1, 2, 3, etc.

SA won't drop matches, not in a world cup, they will take them as they come.

Admit it Biltong - we're your favourite banana skin ever.

FR We played all the Home Nations in 1995 and got the Grand Slam.

I can't believe this draw is still live! Have they fallen asleep? Wrap it up. We know the pools now. This is just overkill.

George Carlin wrote:Admit it Biltong - we're your favourite banana skin ever.

Were mate, not is. there were many Banana skins iin PDV's last two years.

Biltong wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Admit it Biltong - we're your favourite banana skin ever.

Were mate, not is. there were many Banana skins iin PDV's last two years.

George Carlin wrote:

Biltong wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Admit it Biltong - we're your favourite banana skin ever.

Were mate, not is. there were many Banana skins iin PDV's last two years.

Biltong wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Admit it Biltong - we're your favourite banana skin ever.

Were mate, not is. there were many Banana skins iin PDV's last two years.

Not us We were at best a speed bump. Now Meyer...a draw in South Africa and you guys needed a jammy try ( ) to beat us here. Of course our next game against you (in 2014?) will us getting thrashed I imagine. But until then we can pretend

HammerofThunor wrote:

Biltong wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Admit it Biltong - we're your favourite banana skin ever.

Were mate, not is. there were many Banana skins iin PDV's last two years.

Not us We were at best a speed bump. Now Meyer...a draw in South Africa and you guys needed a jammy try ( ) to beat us here. Of course our next game against you (in 2014?) will us getting thrashed I imagine. But until then we can pretend

Like the Irish would say. BELIEVE!!!!!

I reckon SA and england will improve the most in the next few years.

I think that with a half decent coach (still waiting for Rod McQueen to reply to my voicemail), Scotland are going to come on a hell of a lot too.

By 2015, the backline (always the problem area) is likely to be something like:

9. Laidlaw
10. Weir/Heathcote
11. Visser
12. Scott/Dunbar
13. Bennett/Hogg
14. Maitland
15. Hogg/Tonks

If these guys can get 2-3 years of playing together, you're looking at a completely different Scotland team.

You heard it here first.

So that's SA, England and Scotland that are going to improve most in the next few years....so far.

Anymore bids?

SecretFly wrote:So that's SA, England and Scotland that are going to improve most in the next few years....so far.

Anymore bids?

Well most is a relative term.

SA- THE MOSTEST.

SA are allready good..

England are only averagest- we will be the bestest

mystiroakey wrote:SA are allready good..

England are only averagest- we will be the bestest

.......of the restest.

England are giant killers - we (Ireland) are still crap in our eyes and in the eyes of the world media, still have a sucpicious coach (improving slightly but might not last, depending on the 6N performances), still have more ancient players to offload in the next year or two, still are less feared globally as 2nd seeds than Wales are at 3rd!, still get shoved this'a'way and that'a'way in the forwards department and yet somehow score tries across the board of the fifteen players more easily than most sides bar New Zealand and Australia (in their pomp). Top try scorers in last 6N, only behind the ALL Blacks in this AI season.

So...with a chunk of improvements needed between now and 2015, I declare Ireland's candidacy for 'mostest improved over the next few years"

SecretFly wrote:England are giant killers - we (Ireland) are still crap in our eyes and in the eyes of the world media, still have a sucpicious coach (improving slightly but might not last, depending on the 6N performances), still have more ancient players to offload in the next year or two, still are less feared globally as 2nd seeds than Wales are at 3rd!, still get shoved this'a'way and that'a'way in the forwards department and yet somehow score tries across the board of the fifteen players more easily than most sides bar New Zealand and Australia (in their pomp). Top try scorers in last 6N, only behind the ALL Blacks in this AI season.

So...with a chunk of improvements needed between now and 2015, I declare Ireland's candidacy for 'mostest improved over the next few years"

But will they be the goodest?

SecretFly wrote:So that's SA, England and Scotland that are going to improve most in the next few years....so far.

Anymore bids?

I'm actually quite worried that Canada or the USA (whom we'll have in our group) might be a banana skin for us.

The only time ever I don't want Ven Der Merwe to score a sheetload on a rugby pitch.

SecretFly wrote:England are giant killers - we (Ireland) are still crap in our eyes and in the eyes of the world media, still have a sucpicious coach (improving slightly but might not last, depending on the 6N performances), still have more ancient players to offload in the next year or two, still are less feared globally as 2nd seeds than Wales are at 3rd!, still get shoved this'a'way and that'a'way in the forwards department and yet somehow score tries across the board of the fifteen players more easily than most sides bar New Zealand and Australia (in their pomp). Top try scorers in last 6N, only behind the ALL Blacks in this AI season.

So...with a chunk of improvements needed between now and 2015, I declare Ireland's candidacy for 'mostest improved over the next few years"

JJ Hanrahan = RWC Player of the Tournament 2015.

Again, you heard it here first.

England squad can only improve now the RFU have discovered the rich seam of young Gloucester talent which is England qualified and locally available.

You can't improve on beating the best. All you can do is now lose to them again.

Ah shoite, have we peaked too early Secret? Dammit, we'd better start rebuilding again!

aye but next time we could beat em by 30

Yep, Lancaster said 'Practice what we're going to do to them in 2015 - but Don't win!'

But of course, they lost the head and just went ahead and won it. Lancaster was furious. 'F^ck it,' he said 'I can throw that gameplan in the bin now - thanks a f**king bunch, Tuilagi! Do you want it in Braille next time?!"

double Secret

SKYBET:
New Zealand 6/5 South Africa 11/2
England 7/1 France 7/1
Australia 8/1 Wales 12/1
Ireland 25/1 Argentina 40/1
Samoa 50/1 Scotland 150/1
Italy 300/1 Russia 500/1
USA 500/1 Canada 500/1
Japan 500/1 Fiji 500/1
Tonga 500/1

Ireland worth a long range punt at 25/1.

well those are (unsurprisingly) fairly rubbish odds for England and Wales. Quite attractive for Australia, and might be worth a wild punt on Argentina too if you fancy them playing high level rugby regularly is going to improve them quickly.

Decent odds for Ireland and SA too.