is it time to tell player of the year to stick it?

by R!skysports Thu 29 Nov 2012, 8:57 pm

So here we are again with a irb player of the year joke. every year half the players on the short list are.not good enough to buy me a pint. Even if the list.is half way sober the winner is usually someone who happened to be a friend to someone, especially if they had been injured half the year.

The more.this.goes on the more i feel i am being taken for a ride.

Time to stand up and.say no more.

Rant over.

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 30 Nov 2012, 6:12 am

The system needs changing undoubtedly. Why can't the players from each country decide. Everyone is asked to select four players (you can't select from your own country) and then see whose name comes up the most often.

Just out of curiosity Risky, who would you vote for this year. It's been slim pickings in test rugby this year I'm afraid. Certainly very few from the NH come to mind. Mine would be McCaw, Read, Habana and Lobbe.

by maestegmafia Fri 30 Nov 2012, 9:00 am

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The system needs changing undoubtedly. Why can't the players from each country decide. Everyone is asked to select four players (you can't select from your own country) and then see whose name comes up the most often.

Just out of curiosity Risky, who would you vote for this year. It's been slim pickings in test rugby this year I'm afraid. Certainly very few from the NH come to mind. Mine would be McCaw, Read, Habana and Lobbe.

Good question Kia

McCaw, Read, Carter, Lobbe.

by **rodders** Fri 30 Nov 2012, 9:10 am

The selection of Farrell has completely destroyed whatever credibility this award had. Its totally irrelevent now who wins, which is a shame for McCaw who has been out of this world this year.

Farrell isn't even the best fly half in England let alone the best player in the world. In fact if his auld boy wasn't in the England coaching team he'd be lucky to have a cap to his name.

He had a decent 6N, an awful tour down in SA and was bit part player in the AIs,... wasn't a nominee for ERC player of the year .... what has been nominated for? Its bizarre...

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 30 Nov 2012, 9:13 am

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The system needs changing undoubtedly. Why can't the players from each country decide. Everyone is asked to select four players (you can't select from your own country) and then see whose name comes up the most often.

Just out of curiosity Risky, who would you vote for this year. It's been slim pickings in test rugby this year I'm afraid. Certainly very few from the NH come to mind. Mine would be McCaw, Read, Habana and Lobbe.

+1

by **rodders** Fri 30 Nov 2012, 9:18 am

maestegmafia wrote:
kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The system needs changing undoubtedly. Why can't the players from each country decide. Everyone is asked to select four players (you can't select from your own country) and then see whose name comes up the most often.

Just out of curiosity Risky, who would you vote for this year. It's been slim pickings in test rugby this year I'm afraid. Certainly very few from the NH come to mind. Mine would be McCaw, Read, Habana and Lobbe.

Good question Kia

McCaw, Read, Carter, Lobbe.

Mine would be McCaw, McCaw, McCaw and..... Conrad Smith.

Honorable mention to Ruan Pienaar....

by Taylorman Fri 30 Nov 2012, 10:25 am

I would have Dagg in there as well. During the RC was key in taking Oz apart and has been a model of consistency all year.

Hes involved 3 times in this try:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rJD1j5-5_0

and blitzes past Beale:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjEldd5J2jM

All up scored 5 tries this year, has broken the line on countless occasions, from memory hasnt missed a high ball and has defended strongly. By far the best 15 on the field this year.

And to see Michelak and Farrell in there ahead of him (let alone Read, Smith and co)...welll.

by fa0019 Fri 30 Nov 2012, 10:36 am

Michalak has done well since coming back.... not too many questions there... had a decent SR season too.

Farrell... agreed but lets not get personal on the kid. He didn't submit himself, he was voted in by former greats.... who are weighted to have no national bias.

In fact lets be honest, everyone hates ENG in rugby, they are the sports anti-heroes. I doubt anyone would vote for him for the sole purpose of scratching the backs of the RFU.

by RubyGuby Fri 30 Nov 2012, 10:55 am

In a RWC year we should have a number of potential cadidates but the cupboard does seem bare. It's such a subjective thing as well trying to pick a single player in a team game. Lobbe, McGaw and a raft of other N Zealanders etc are all noteworthy candidates. I'd be tempted to go for Lobbe as this was such a momentous year for his nation but that's just my subjectivity speaking.

I don't understand the Farrell thing and thought it was a mis print when I saw the text last night thumbsup

by **rodders** Fri 30 Nov 2012, 10:55 am

It's not personal with Farrell at all, I'm just at a loss to understand how a player who isn't even guaranteed to start for his national team can be regarded as one of the best 4 players in the world.

It makes a total mockery of the competition. It's just insane.

Honestly if it wasn't November I'd think it was an April fools prank.

by Taylorman Fri 30 Nov 2012, 10:56 am

yes but how does 'well' and 'decent' get into these things when others are playing f@#$n brilliant sh@^t is what gets me. Anyway, not that I care...as long as someone deserved gets it, and McCaws the only one who truly deserves it. Carter was magical now and then, but ok or absent the rest of the time.

by Mr Taff Fri 30 Nov 2012, 11:09 am

Why is McCaw on the list? Has he really done that much?

by RubyGuby Fri 30 Nov 2012, 11:12 am

Rodders - Most of the England fans don't want Farrell near the squad so I don't think you are being personal there mate - its bizarre thumbsup

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Fri 30 Nov 2012, 11:34 am

Mr Taff wrote:Why is McCaw on the list? Has he really done that much?

The voting works on an "Most valuable Player" system. The panel watches every international through the year, and pick the 3 best-performed players in each match, who get awarded points. Then they add up everyone's points and put the 4 best-performed into the short list. It's a system designed to minimise bias, however it also can produce statistical blips due to a tendency to over-reward players doing well in an ordinary team, and under-reward players in a team with 4 or 5 guys performing extremely well.

McCaw has been immense this year. The foot injury he battled through at the RWC probably reduced his overall performance level by 20% last year, and you could see the difference made when he was fully fit.

Farrell has presumably got the nod by earning points in most of England's games in the 6N - while England didn't produce massibely exciting play, they did win 4 out of 5 games, and he was a key figure in most of those wins. Wales by contrast had a number of different players stand out in the 6N, and therefore the points were shared about.

Michalak only a handful of internationals for France this year (he missed the 6N), but he was man-of-the-match in most of the games he played, which in a year where few players have consistently stood out has been enough to push him into the top 4.

by Mr Taff Fri 30 Nov 2012, 11:37 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Mr Taff wrote:Why is McCaw on the list? Has he really done that much?

The voting works on an "Most valuable Player" system. The panel watches every international through the year, and pick the 3 best-performed players in each match, who get awarded points. Then they add up everyone's points and put the 4 best-performed into the short list. It's a system designed to minimise bias, however it also can produce statistical blips due to a tendency to over-reward players doing well in an ordinary team, and under-reward players in a team with 4 or 5 guys performing extremely well.

McCaw has been immense this year. The foot injury he battled through at the RWC probably reduced his overall performance level by 20% last year, and you could see the difference made when he was fully fit.

Farrell has presumably got the nod by earning points in most of England's games in the 6N - while England didn't produce massibely exciting play, they did win 4 out of 5 games, and he was a key figure in most of those wins. Wales by contrast had a number of different players stand out in the 6N, and therefore the points were shared about.

Michalak only a handful of internationals for France this year (he missed the 6N), but he was man-of-the-match in most of the games he played, which in a year where few players have consistently stood out has been enough to push him into the top 4.

Didn't see much of the 'Rugby Championship' so excuse my ignorance.

by R!skysports Fri 30 Nov 2012, 11:56 am

Well if the case is to rate points on the individual games regardless of the overall quality, then the team that plays the most games have the best chance.

I am sure lots of other NH players played well enough to gain points in games.

Actually how Richie Gray did not get nominated based on that criteria as he was fantastic in the 6 nations and had little competition to take points away from him

If i was too be honest (or drunk in a bar) I might consider it is a fix with Daddy helping him out - but of course that would only be my silly opinion and of course not true

I think the whole player of the year is stupid anyway. Richie played very well - but there is an argument that as he is in such a dominating team, he has an easier ride and can focus on the area that he is good at - a player equally as good in another team has to do more of the other jobs so can not shine -

This may or may not be true, but tends to make the whole thing pointless imo (unless I get nominated then it is of course the best system in the world)

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 30 Nov 2012, 12:02 pm

It is very humbling to be alongside the other players on the list. They are all world class," Farrell said. "I didn't really understand it at first. I was getting all these messages and I didn't know what was going on.

by **rodders** Fri 30 Nov 2012, 12:04 pm

I don't think there is any system in the world which explains how Farrell made it.

I watched him give one of the worst displays I've ever seen from an international fly half against SA in the second test (I think), just before being subsequently dropped. He looked totally out of his depth.

Great goal kicker but a lot of substandard aspects to his game.

by R!skysports Fri 30 Nov 2012, 12:04 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
It is very humbling to be alongside the other players on the list. They are all world class," Farrell said. "I didn't really understand it at first. I was getting all these messages and I didn't know what was going on.

Is this him talking about the nomination, or people asking him to pass the ball?

by SecretFly Fri 30 Nov 2012, 12:33 pm

Here's a novel idea..... the player of the year is whoever you personally think it is rather than waiting on some awards ceremony to let you know?

Same for the ridiculous BBC Sports Person of the Year. Just give it too ALL the candidates: Sports People of the Year - easy if you try. But no, that can't be for the addicts who like to do things with their iphones - we can't have the exciting "interactive" night of voting if you just say they're all winners. Much better to have the lovely bloody voting (the world has gone mad on bloody phone voting) and turn a nice night for some athletes into a pretty grim "smile for the cameras" one - needlessly so, in my eyes.

I mean, even if someone tells me Daniel Day Lewis will yet again be best actor for his Lincoln, I'll know in my heart that he won't be; best actor that is - not for me. I think poor Daniel has an awful tendency to over-emote/act, so much so that it becomes comical (as in like a comic character). Bill the Butcher..even Plainview did a good swipe at Theatrical baddie. But alas, others will say he's the best actor who ever walked the planet. Opinion is personal, even for judges.

by RubyGuby Fri 30 Nov 2012, 12:37 pm

Riskysports wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
It is very humbling to be alongside the other players on the list. They are all world class," Farrell said. "I didn't really understand it at first. I was getting all these messages and I didn't know what was going on.

Is this him talking about the nomination, or people asking him to pass the ball?

Absolute top draw mate thumbsup

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 30 Nov 2012, 2:59 pm

That's gold Risky! That made my day. A good vibe to take into the poker game tonight. kiss

Only thing that doesn't quite fit is all the other players on the list are all world class. Whistle

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 30 Nov 2012, 3:04 pm

Yep hats off for that one

by R!skysports Fri 30 Nov 2012, 4:30 pm

kiakahaaotearoa - I suppose I should ask for 20% of winnings for providing the vibe king

I have managed to get one funny joke out - so my 2012 target is complete - with a month to spare

So I expect to be getting my call for IRB funnest person of the year

It is very humbling to be alongside the other jokers on the list. They are all very funny," Riskysports said. "I didn't really understand how being funny could make people laugh at first. I was getting all these titters and I didn't know what was going on"

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 30 Nov 2012, 4:35 pm

Well let's not jump the gun mate. Let me win first and then you take the credit and the 20 % rake. If I lose though do I take 20 % of the winnings from you? Very Happy

by R!skysports Fri 30 Nov 2012, 4:40 pm

No, as I have a very robust and legal policy signed by 'the powers that be' that states

What's mine is mine, what's yours is mine (upto and including winnings to 20%)

It may seem a little specific, but it just happen to be there

by SecretFly Fri 30 Nov 2012, 4:44 pm

......if only losing were so simple. Whistle

I'm building the scaffold already for the Player of the Year losers. I can add another rope for comedy turkey of the year easily enough. They can double up on Farrell's trap door.

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