Time for Andy Robinson to go?

simple question I think

He should have gone in April

I think it has become untenable after that result today. We seem to get 'nearly there' then lose it and it takes a while to get it back. You must have consistency at test level and I feel we haven't had that under AR. I also think the players should shoulder all of the blame today. They were very poor.

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Interesting, but to Scotland actually have anyone better to replace Robinson?

I'm hoping Rhys Priestland will go into coaching so you can try him?

I voted 'No' because he should have gone by now. He presided over Scotland's worst ever RWC campaign in what was a winnable group before taking us to a wooden spoon. I'm no stats guru but I believe his Six Nations record is worse than Hadden's and not much better than Williams's. Wins, home and away, over Australia and a home win over the Springboks were pleasing but they were not part of an overall ark that saw Scotland develop into a team that played an all-round good style of rugby. That is the big issue for me - I don't see where he is trying to take team. The argument that 'winning is everything' is invalidated when the team wins about 15% of their games annually.

In terms of replacements, I don't think there are many people in Scotland ready for it. Lineen could take the reigns in the Six Nations. Kirwan's signed on to the Blues, I'm not sure Nick Mallett would be the right guy and Richie Dixon's probably past it. I would object to Redpath because he's done nothing with Sale and Gloucester look better without him. We'll probably end up with Toonie...

The longer the players spend in camp under his tutelage, the worse performance thy deliver - 6Ns: best = England, worst = Italy; summer tour: best = Australia, worst = Samoa; AIs: best = NZ, worst = Tonga. The man is expert at coaching decent players into bad ones

I will do it.

"Judge me on results" he said before the last 6N. Well we have Mr Robinson and you are found wanting.

He should never have been appoited. he should have been sacked after the WC, He should have been sacked after the 6N, he should be sacked now.

Alternative? Lineen as a caretaker for the 6N, then young ambitious antipodean needed unless lLineen plays a blinder

Scotland have been taking baby steps for the last 5 years, I don't like blaming the coach but we need someone to take us forward again and convincingly

Lets face it - as Head Coach he was dire for us. He is just continuing to fulfill his potential.

BUT

Instead of always blaming the coach, perhaps the players are not good enough? After all I think you have to go back to Geechs first tenure as Scotland coach to find someone who could inspire Scotland to more wins than losses. And the game was amateur back then.

This is the best group of Scotland players for a generation if not two. Young and inexperienced a lot of them are although many should have a few more caps. When did Scotland last have a pack as big and fast as anyone with a few really good players and maybe one or two real greats. When did Scotland last have a back division with power, creativity and pace? Maybe the 1990 team?

When a team plays less than the sum of the parts its the coach that must carry the can.

Are you being disrespectful to Tonga? They did beat France in the RWC...you know, finalists France...?

Eh? that aimed at me? Have I mentioned Tonga?

You're being disrespectful to Tonga TJ. Tonga are better than Scotland FACT.

TJ wrote:This is the best group of Scotland players for a generation if not two. Young and inexperienced a lot of them are although many should have a few more caps. When did Scotland last have a pack as big and fast as anyone with a few really good players and maybe one or two real greats. When did Scotland last have a back division with power, creativity and pace? Maybe the 1990 team?

When a team plays less than the sum of the parts its the coach that must carry the can.

Don't get me wrong, Robinson should only ever be a forwards coach - and even then his ideas are a little dated. I do think you overestimate the quality of the players available to you though.

TJ wrote:Eh? that aimed at me? Have I mentioned Tonga?

It's not aimed at anyone, it's just a comment. Sacking your coach because you've lost to a team is pretty disrespectful to the opposition.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

TJ wrote:Eh? that aimed at me? Have I mentioned Tonga?

It's not aimed at anyone, it's just a comment. Sacking your coach because you've lost to a team is pretty disrespectful to the opposition.

trust me, people calling for Andy's head aren't doing it purely on today's results. Its the combined failure of the World Cup (worst ever) & 6 Nations whitewash. At most today's represents (hopefully) the final nail in the coffin.

What sad trolls some of you are. I said nothing about sacking Robinson because we lost to Tonga, We need to sack Robinson because he is a Poopie coach. We know this because under him we have slid consistently down the rankings and been beaten consistently while playing badly and less than the sumof the parts.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

TJ wrote:Eh? that aimed at me? Have I mentioned Tonga?

It's not aimed at anyone, it's just a comment. Sacking your coach because you've lost to a team is pretty disrespectful to the opposition.

You misunderstand. Calling for Robinson to go is not based solely on today's result. Scotland were awful at the RWC and struggled against teams that even Scotland should have had the beating of. Add to that a wooden spoon, some jammy results on hardly the most difficult of summer tours, conceding 50 points at home and now handing Tonga this victory. There is no way of justifying this result by highlighting results against a farcicially poor French team and running Italy close.

In successive seasons Robinson has failed to build on victories against southern hemisphere teams. How this time will be different, I am not sure. He needed to go a year ago. He really needs to go now.

It's only partly his fault, of course. The way domestic rugby is managed needs to be revamped.

Scotland have better players than Tonga FACT, were Tonga better today? Yes, Did they play with more passion? Yes.
In 19 competition games, Scotland have won four of them and two were against Georgia and Romania. When he was appointed coach he asked to be judged on results, the results aren't good enough. The question is who is better who would take the job?

anotherworldofpain wrote:

TJ wrote:Eh? that aimed at me? Have I mentioned Tonga?

It's not aimed at anyone, it's just a comment. Sacking your coach because you've lost to a team is pretty disrespectful to the opposition.

So youd be happy with Hansen if NZ had lost today?

123456789 wrote:Scotland have better players than Tonga FACT, were Tonga better today? Yes, Did they play with more passion? Yes.
In 19 competition games, Scotland have won four of them and two were against Georgia and Romania. When he was appointed coach he asked to be judged on results, the results aren't good enough. The question is who is better who would take the job?

Does Hadden have a job yet?

Regardless of the coach, should the Scotland pack not have managed to convert all that pressure on the Tongan line into points instead of cocking up the attempts at rolling mauls? These are meant to be talented rugby players who should instinctively do the right thing.

MacKnocked-on wrote:Regardless of the coach, should the Scotland pack not have managed to convert all that pressure on the Tongan line into points instead of cocking up the attempts at rolling mauls? These are meant to be talented rugby players who should instinctively do the right thing.

the pack shouldnt have done anything but set up a platform for the backs once it became evident that route 1 was not working.

Unfortunately Robinson ( contract for another 3 years?) has chosen Taylor as his new defence coach( 4 year contract?) and Scott Johnson (4 year contract?) as his "skills" coach. Even if the SRU wished to ditch him, a decent new coach would want to make their own appointments and so Taylor and Johnson would need to be paid off as well. Assuming they are on decent wonga you are probably looking at the thick edge of a million to get rid of all three.

The SRU will do almost anythting to avoid sheliing out that kind of cash. I think the only way he would be sacked if there are maybe 20 thousand emprty seats at the home 6N,s games.

However as there are still enough well heeled part time fans who enjoy the social aspect of a day out in the 6N's, regardless of how poor we are, this is unlikely to happen.
So we can look forward to another three seasons of small glimmers of hope followed by huge dollops of pants.

Suck it up boys because it aint going to get any better.

Couldnt they just get Brian Ashton in behind his back and then gradually make his position untenable?

Id expect one of the minions to be in charge by the time of the 6 nations

sensisball wrote:Unfortunately Robinson ( contract for another 3 years?) has chosen Taylor as his new defence coach( 4 year contract?) and Scott Johnson (4 year contract?) as his "skills" coach. Even if the SRU wished to ditch him, a decent new coach would want to make their own appointments and so Taylor and Johnson would need to be paid off as well. Assuming they are on decent wonga you are probably looking at the thick edge of a million to get rid of all three.

The SRU will do almost anythting to avoid sheliing out that kind of cash. I think the only way he would be sacked if there are maybe 20 thousand emprty seats at the home 6N,s games.

However as there are still enough well heeled part time fans who enjoy the social aspect of a day out in the 6N's, regardless of how poor we are, this is unlikely to happen.
So we can look forward to another three seasons of small glimmers of hope followed by huge dollops of pants.

Suck it up boys because it aint going to get any better.

Just sell off all of Edinburgh's NSQs. Wait... no one else will have them.

AWW! NAW!

I've no doubt we'll end up with Scott Johnson or one of the back room boys getting the job, either that or Robinson will stay. We'll be told that they are playing the long game and that it's in our best interests.

You're right. Money will dictate the course of action taken. What should happen is that Robinson should be sacked (he should have been already), and the SRU search the globe for the best possible replacement. Pigs are flying and as they land, they put on ice skates and glide over a frozen hell.

Well said fES - today was the latest installment of a truly depressing experience. He should have been binned post RWC11 but no prevarication. Then a wooden spoon but no - pussies at the SRU. A win in the summer v weakened sh opposition. Nirvana. Feckin bollux. There is a big problem in this set up and if Robinson does not have the self respect to go (unlikely as he is a pig headed moron) then someone at Coward's Castle must get rid of him.

Who will be better for Scotland rhat are available?

And enough of him the BBE, capping his wee diddy pals. That guy Heathcote was an embarassment - just like that other toss*r Cuthbert a few years ago.

Biltong wrote:Who will be better for Scotland rhat are available?

There's a terribly sad amount of nonsense being posted here by the usual graceless trolls (not you Biltong, I'm just using your post to reply generally to the thread as well as specifically to your question).

Scotland fans have long been dissatisfied with Robinson and it's nothing to do with losing matches, it's the poor and inconsistent selection and clear lack of gameplan that's baffling. Scotland have been regressing for some time and it's not enough to say that we have improved in some areas. The world rankings don't lie and the fact remains that other teams that were previously tier 2 and 3 teams have improved much faster than we have. I can give a huge number of examples of AR's chopping, changing and playing out of position but I suspect that the WUMMers aren't actually interested so I won't poo in your salads in that respect.

Biltong - to answer your question, Scotland won't get a coach that's already got established international but I don't think that we need one of those - there are plenty of franchise coaches who would do a great job in making the step up to coaching an international side. Jamie Joseph from the Highlanders, Ewen McKenzie or Jim McKay from the Reds and even Allister Coetzee at the Stormers (conservative though he may be) would all represent a bold and well judged statement from the SRU.

Which is why it won't happen and Scott Johnson will get given the job and we'll all be told to give him a chance in the long term. Hideous.

If you're interested in simple W/L records, though - here you are:

Win percentage of Scotland rugby coaches: tournament records in professional era:

Richie Dixon (1995-96, sacked) 50%

Jim Telfer (1997-99, also director of rugby) 53.8%

Ian McGeechan (2000-03, promoted to director of rugby) 42%

Matt Williams (2004-05, sacked) 10%

Frank Hadden (2005-09, sacked) 36%

Andy Robinson (2009-present day) 23.68%

He should have gone after the World Cup.

Earlier this year with new coaches joining I thought that there would be an upturn in the teams performance and results. At that point you could argue that further time was needed before further changes.

Six months down the line that argument no longer holds water.

I have no clue how the SRU are going to resolve this one, but the current setup cannot now be maintained.

Theres turkeys who fancy their chances of seeing the new year more than he does right now

Robinson's resigned - see the latest thread on these boards.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote: That guy Heathcote was an embarassment

a bit like you. The poor guy was thrown into a disastrous situation and asked to snatch a victory from the jaws of defeat with players he barely knew. you are a sad bitter troll.

Well said Imperialbigdave.

Very sad that such a nice guy like Andy Robinson had to leave the Scotland job. I suppose it seems that in this day and age to succeed you either need the materials,i.e. the players to work with such as what Australia, NZ, and South Africa have, or you as a head coach like Warren Gatland who has that steelness and tough/bad guy image needed to get and squeeze the most skills and performance levels out of a bunch of players who are good players to play at international level but haven't got that exceptional quality about them which means the difference between winning and losing.

Anyway as the next head coach for Scotland, how about Graham Henry? or Martin Johnson? In Johnson, Scotland will have that head coach with a hard/bad guy image needed to stir up and get the players to play at their absolute peak performance.

gboycottnut wrote:
Anyway as the next head coach for Scotland, how about Graham Henry? or Martin Johnson? In Johnson, Scotland will have that head coach with a hard/bad guy image needed to stir up and get the players to play at their absolute peak performance.

I dont think we need any dwarf throwing scandals though.

Imperialbigdave wrote:

gboycottnut wrote:
Anyway as the next head coach for Scotland, how about Graham Henry? or Martin Johnson? In Johnson, Scotland will have that head coach with a hard/bad guy image needed to stir up and get the players to play at their absolute peak performance.

I dont think we need any dwarf throwing scandals though.

Then who do you think should be the next head coach? What about bringing back Frank Haddin?

gboycottnut wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:

gboycottnut wrote:
Anyway as the next head coach for Scotland, how about Graham Henry? or Martin Johnson? In Johnson, Scotland will have that head coach with a hard/bad guy image needed to stir up and get the players to play at their absolute peak performance.

I dont think we need any dwarf throwing scandals though.

Then who do you think should be the next head coach? What about bringing back Frank Haddin?

at this moment? I really dont know. The coaches I rate highest are all tied down atm.

next poaching target? Conor O'Shea from Harlequins (y)

On a serious note I think we should be looking to the Aviva premiership for coaching solutions.

Either that or Lineen may be a good shout for now, that is if he's allowed out of his poaching role in the SRU

It's just a pity that whoever the next coach is, his first game will be in the 6n, shame we don't have another match or two lined up before then.

What about Bryan Redpath? Is he still coaching at Sale? If he isn't perhaps he should be the next Scotland head coach.

Imperialbigdave wrote:

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote: That guy Heathcote was an embarassment

a bit like you. The poor guy was thrown into a disastrous situation and asked to snatch a victory from the jaws of defeat with players he barely knew. you are a sad bitter troll.

Yes so you would have brought Heathcote on in that situation ? He should never have been any where near that squad of players - Jack Cuthbert all over again. I suppose as a Robinson apologist you can't really get that through to your rather limited brain. BTW what were Heathcote's stats yesterday ? You like them don't you ?

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote: That guy Heathcote was an embarassment

a bit like you. The poor guy was thrown into a disastrous situation and asked to snatch a victory from the jaws of defeat with players he barely knew. you are a sad bitter troll.

Yes so you would have brought Heathcote on in that situation ? He should never have been any where near that squad of players - Jack Cuthbert all over again. I suppose as a Robinson apologist you can't really get that through to your rather limited brain. BTW what were Heathcote's stats yesterday ? You like them don't you ?

Dont know where I said that. But to call him an embarrasment just goes to show how little you know about rugby, and what a strange bitter little man you are. Youve not said it, but we all know youre thinking it, he isnt from glasgow so he isnt a good player.

And I love how youre bringing up the stats thing again after last time i used them to show you what garbage you were spouting, and surprise surprise you went silent.

Why is Heathcote an embarrassment?

We should have been clear in the first half but our players were too inept.

For me the most culpable player of the series is Kelly Brown and his terrible captaincy. Didn't talk to the referees enough when the opposition were slowing ball or trying to decapitate our players and made awful decisions when points were on offer.

Blaming Heathcote is just pathetic.