WBO Mandatory - Wlad vs Haye II on the cards?

Provided that he can get past Mariusz Wach, there are rumours that a mandatory challenger for the WBO portion of Wlad's belt collection is on the verge of being announced.

The opponent will be one of the WBO top three ranked contenders, namely Denis Boytsov, Seth Mitchell or David Haye.

The idea of a Wlad vs Haye re-match frankly fills me with dread, the idea of all the name calling and posturing, followed by another risibly inept performance and excuses galore is definitely not an enticing prospect.

Mitchell and Boytsov are unbeaten, but also untested, and with neither troubling the 6'3" mark on the wallchart it seems more than likely that any problems they could pose the champion could be dealt with by the usual leaning and holding tactics.

Mitchell is due to fight long-time Klitschko sparring partner Jonathon Banks next month, so a win there would move him into prime position I would think, although UDAR's 3rd place finish may have finally squashed hopes of Haye vs Vitali, so the Hayemaker hype-machine may grind into action and press for the re-match that surely nobody wants to see.

This could all be irrelevant though, if 6'7 Pole Mariusz Wach has his way two weeks from now.

What say you, 606v2?

It wont happen. Even Haye himself said that his defeat was comprehensive before he went on one about Vit wanting to KO him hence he wants to fight Vit.

If it does, the trash talking will be lower anyway. He wont want to be embarassed again. At least I hope not.

Seth Mitchell would be an interesting fight for Wlad, he can bang but has been shown to be vulnerable as well. I hope that if Haye does get another chance he would let his hands go a bit more but I doubt it'll happen.

I'd rather see Haye go down the Vitali route - if that's still possible - after the elections in Ukraine, with Wladimir going after Mitchell, who I certainly rate ahead of Wilder as America's best Heavyweight prospect.

I think Wladimir's just got the wood on Haye, to be honest, and I'm not sure how Haye can win that one right now. I still have misgivings over whether he could beat Vitali, to be honest, but it certainly sells better than a rematch with Wladimir and is likely to result in a much better styles match up, too.

Besides, Haye had his shot at THE Heavyweight champion, regardless of his complaints afterwards. No reason for him to leapfrog Mitchell and Boystov in the race to take on Wladimir, for me.

Only reason for Haye/Wlad II would be if Haye was to defeat either of the other two possible contenders. However, given it's unlikely Haye wants to be bothered with the hassle of fighting other worthwhile contenders, he's unlikely to put himself in a good bargaining position for a rematch.

Therefore, it's going to be easy for Wlad to sidestep Haye and there's every possibility Haye will be happy to be sidestepped. He's unlikely to convince many people things would be different second time around and unlikely to request a significant share of the purse.

The only way he gets another crack at Wlad is by either beating Vitali or putting up such a credible showing that people clamour for a Wlad rematch.

I've every confidence that Haye has the beating of just about every other HW outside the K's but it would be better if he actually demonstated it and then public opinion may swing back in his favour once more.

As a few (if not many) have alluded to, the manner in which he dispatched Chisora showed that he still have the ability to compete with the big guys and that perhaps the first Wlad fight really was a bad day at the office however, in order to secure a rematch, I'd much prefer to see him fighting his way rather that hoping his way into another big match-up.

DAVE667 wrote:Only reason for Haye/Wlad II would be if Haye was to defeat either of the other two possible contenders. However, given it's unlikely Haye wants to be bothered with the hassle of fighting other worthwhile contenders, he's unlikely to put himself in a good bargaining position for a rematch.

Therefore, it's going to be easy for Wlad to sidestep Haye and there's every possibility Haye will be happy to be sidestepped. He's unlikely to convince many people things would be different second time around and unlikely to request a significant share of the purse.

The only way he gets another crack at Wlad is by either beating Vitali or putting up such a credible showing that people clamour for a Wlad rematch.

I've every confidence that Haye has the beating of just about every other HW outside the K's but it would be better if he actually demonstated it and then public opinion may swing back in his favour once more.

As a few (if not many) have alluded to, the manner in which he dispatched Chisora showed that he still have the ability to compete with the big guys and that perhaps the first Wlad fight really was a bad day at the office however, in order to secure a rematch, I'd much prefer to see him fighting his way rather that hoping his way into another big match-up.

Chis was the same height and smaller reach. Things were equalised. In Wlad he will be fighting someone who knows how to use his physical attributes better than any other heavyweight I have seen bar Tyson why knew perfectly how to use his lack of height to his advantage.

I was referring to the fact that he KO'd a man who'd taken everything Vitali could throw at him and couldn't budge him. Nothing to suggest that Haye would beat Wlad if he goes in with the same mindset. He needs to be more devil may care but accept the fact that he may have to ship a couple of shots on the way in. First time round Wlad never looked like KO-ing Haye but Haye was still unwilling to push the envelope and look to get into range more often.

Facts are facts and Haye is second best in almost every aspect barring speed and reflexes. However, we all know you don't have to hit harder than anyone else in order to get rid of Wlad however, you do need to get close enough to him to make the punch count. Wlad still goes into his shell somewhat when the punches get thrown (all Manny's training could never rid him of that) but staying out range isn't going to get the job done.

Haye isn't as good as he thinks but neither is he as bad as the Wlad performance has led people to believe.

I think too much is being taken on those KOs early in his career. In two of them he gassed and in the other he got beat by a seriously big and fast punching South African . Do we call Lennos chinny on the back of 2 one punch knock outs?

azania wrote:Do we call Lennos chinny on the back of 2 one punch knock outs?

You do

Of course I do. I enjoy all the various excuses offtered when Lewis was offed. Those excuses never apply to other boxers. I've read one fool here claim the loss to McCall was actually a win. I kid you not.

Sanders was what, 6'3"? Not that big and not that big a puncher either. It's just that Wlad doesn't take a punch well hence Steward ensuring that his training was generally geared towards avoiding getting hit.

Do we call Lennox chinny? Well, I don't but some jackasses do. However, to me, a fighter being chinny means that as soon as a shot lands, his senses are scrambled and the legs go. Point in case, Frank Bruno and, to a lesser degree, Wlad. Lewis was knocked down and counted out, he was rarely if ever, doing the HW chicken dance a la Trevor Berbick so in that respect Lewis was definitely not chinny but that doesn't stop stupid people throwing it out there

I enjoy all the various excuses offtered when Lewis was offed

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Not as much as I enjoy hearing the "Wlad only gassed out" in those early defeats as if it was a high level conspiracy stopping him from winning.

Gassing and having a dodgy chin are seperate issues. Now his level of fitness is at its peak, he will be able to take better punches....although the ones Sanders hit him with would still have stopped him.

DAVE667 wrote:Sanders was what, 6'3"? Not that big and not that big a puncher either. It's just that Wlad doesn't take a punch well hence Steward ensuring that his training was generally geared towards avoiding getting hit.

Do we call Lennox chinny? Well, I don't but some jackasses do. However, to me, a fighter being chinny means that as soon as a shot lands, his senses are scrambled and the legs go. Point in case, Frank Bruno and, to a lesser degree, Wlad. Lewis was knocked down and counted out, he was rarely if ever, doing the HW chicken dance a la Trevor Berbick so in that respect Lewis was definitely not chinny but that doesn't stop stupid people throwing it out there

How can you refer to someone as a jackass then say Sanders was not a big puncher. The man hurt Vitali more than Lewis did. Probably a bigger pincher than Lennox.

Lewis has been staggered many times. Briggs hurt him, Akinwande put him down amid the hugging. Nah mate, Lewis had chic issues.

How can you refer to someone as a jackass then say Sanders was not a big puncher. The man hurt Vitali more than Lewis did. Probably a bigger pincher than Lennox.
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That's when I use the term "jackass" and use it to it's full effect. Sanders hurt Vitali more than Lewis? The man who put 56 stiches in his face and hit him with an uppercut that stopped him dead in his tracks? Yeah, Sanders was a bigger puncher than Lewis

Lewis has been staggered many times. Briggs hurt him, Akinwande put him down amid the hugging. Nah mate, Lewis had chic issues.
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Lewis didn't have chin issues, he was hit and most likely hurt on a number of occasions, but being hurt and having your senses leave you like Bruno did against the likes of Jumbo Cummings or Wlad staggering around the ring like he did against Sanders are two very different matters

Probably! By virtue of the fact that Vitali was stunned by Sanders whereas he was not fazed by Lewis' best punches.

alma wrote:I can't see haye fighting wlad. Wlad doesn't need the fight and he's just been offered a new contract by RTL. I just don't think he'll want to line haye's pockets when there's plenty of other options. There's plenty of up and coming eastern European fighters coming through which is likely to be of more interest to RTL viewers. I can see Mitchell aiming for the WBC title if vitali vacated. Plus Mitchell is still a couple of fights away from fighting wlad

Apparently (according to Haye) the contract is a 3 fight one. With a Wlad rematch should he get past Vit and a Vit rematch should he get past Wlad. So in reality it will be a two fight deal. Haye will beat Vit and lose to Wlad again. Probably by KO.

Probably! By virtue of the fact that Vitali was stunned by Sanders whereas he was not fazed by Lewis' best punches.
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Really? The uppercut in the round before the fight was stopped that had Vitali holding on in reality didn't faze him? Dear oh dear!!!!!!!!

Time to walk away from this conversation lest I get signed up for Billy Smart's Circus with the rest of the clowns

He wasn't really holding on. That was a fully pelted U/C and Vit took it well. Yep, walk away from simple truths. Vit took lewis' punches better than Sanders'.

Early in fights, Sanders was a MASSIVE Puncher.

Im not sure how Haye could have got himself into mandatory position. He lost to Wlad last year and since then beat a Chisora in the midst of a losing streak.

manos de piedra wrote:Im not sure how Haye could have got himself into mandatory position. He lost to Wlad last year and since then beat a Chisora in the midst of a losing streak.

£££££

$$$$$

manos de piedra wrote:Im not sure how Haye could have got himself into mandatory position. He lost to Wlad last year and since then beat a Chisora in the midst of a losing streak.

The Haye Chisora fight was of course for the never before seen and never to be seen again WBO International Heavyweight title, winning which no doubt shot Haye up their rankings.

Almost as if they invented the title to manufacture a potentally lucrative money spinning, no, wait, I'm being cynical.

The WBO is a rubbish title anyway, no real problem for Wlad if he vacates the belt, it has no history.

It never will have any history if champions treat it with the lackadaisical slapdash attitude you suggest, monty.

Out of interest, which titles are worth winning and holding on to?

I don't think its a question of titles. Its who is the best in the division. A belt means an organisation gets sanctioning fees and the public get excited about a supposed title fight.

If the WBO has no history then neither do the IBF or IBO, and the WBA Super belt certainly doesn't.

Give 'em all up, Wlad!

Why no Wlad v Haye II!!

The first wasn't exactly a belter was it?

Union Cane wrote:It never will have any history if champions treat it with the lackadaisical slapdash attitude you suggest, monty.

Out of interest, which titles are worth winning and holding on to?

WBC is no.1 IBF and WBA similar , WBO slightly behind, IBO hold's about as much worth as my Sunday hangover sh**

i want to see haye v wlad 2. the build up to the 1st fight was so good and i'm sure haye will try harder this time round.

Union Cane wrote:If the WBO has no history then neither do the IBF or IBO, and the WBA Super belt certainly doesn't.

Give 'em all up, Wlad!

Povetkins belt is a complete joke and hold's no worth what so ever, the IBF is a pretty decent belt imo, first champion was Larry Holmes in his prime and has a pretty decent list of champions since. The WBO for example had rubbish like Michael Bentt and Herbie Hide among it's early holders.

i would love to see haye against wlad again but there is one major problem ! it would happen in germany which means wlad would be allowed to use hes forearm and hold the back of hayes head , this is what killed the first fight, also i think wlad is just too big and strong thier styles make for a boring fight ,

The WBO might have been the lowest quartile a couple of decades back, Monty, but I'd be genuinely interested to know why you see the likes of the WBC, IBF etc as being superior as of 2012? It's fighters making belts these days, from what I can see.

You've said you consider the WBC number one, for instance. Well, they've had their fair share of decidedly average champions in recent years, too; Maskaev, Baldomir, Sanavia etc. Right now, I'd say that the collection of champions they boast doesn't really hold any great advantage over that of the WBO, for instance, if there is any advantage at all.

They've also been arguably the most ridiculous of the major organisations over the past few years in terms of boxing politics; effectively banning unification fights, turning a blind eye to the offences of the fighters representing them, showing what can only be described as blatant favouritsm towards certain fighters by stripping their title from somebody for no good reason at all, so that it can be awarded to an often undeserving divisional gatekeeper, and so on and so on.

I really don't think any of the four major bodies can claim any superiority over the others right now, to be honest. They're just about all as bad as each other. As I say, fighters make belts these days.

None of the sanctioning bodies deserve any real recognition. The champion who holds them might, but the sanctioning bodies themselves have absolutely no credibility for me.

You do leave yourself wide open Az when you say Lewis didn't hurt Vitali.I'm going to opt out of this discussion as well Dave.I think to confirm who hit him harder you'd have to ask Vitali but it looked to me that Vitali wouldn't have lasted another round and the Ref did the right thing in stopping it when he did.

Wasnt the cut Vitali got against Lewis originally caused by the strap of the glove? Not exactly a Titanic hit. Whereas an out of shape (Any South African who watched Sanders will tell you he only fought for the pay cheque, couldnt be bothered with prestige, thus got lazy in training) Sanders pretty much gave Vitali hell! I do believe that W Klitschko has a weak chin, but Sanders could deck anyone if he came to fight. As for Haye, if they were the same height, I dont doubt Haye could take care of business,, but W Klitschko offers too many weapons fromthat height.

rycoys wrote:i would love to see haye against wlad again but there is one major problem ! it would happen in germany which means wlad would be allowed to use hes forearm and hold the back of hayes head , this is what killed the first fight, also i think wlad is just too big and strong thier styles make for a boring fight ,

I thought it was the complete lack of aggression / effort shown by Haye with his refusal to even try and set the pace that made this fight as dull as dish water, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

There might be one half decent fight, then Wlad would unify the lot.

kingraf wrote:Wasnt the cut Vitali got against Lewis originally caused by the strap of the glove? Not exactly a Titanic hit. Whereas an out of shape (Any South African who watched Sanders will tell you he only fought for the pay cheque, couldnt be bothered with prestige, thus got lazy in training) Sanders pretty much gave Vitali hell! I do believe that W Klitschko has a weak chin, but Sanders could deck anyone if he came to fight. As for Haye, if they were the same height, I dont doubt Haye could take care of business,, but W Klitschko offers too many weapons fromthat height.

Sanders did not really give Vitali hell. Sanders came out strong for like 1 or 2 rounds then got demolished.

I think Lewis did hit Vitlia hard but it's more that vitali has a steel chin than lewis hits weak as to why it looked like vitali never felt it.

bhb001 wrote:

rycoys wrote:i would love to see haye against wlad again but there is one major problem ! it would happen in germany which means wlad would be allowed to use hes forearm and hold the back of hayes head , this is what killed the first fight, also i think wlad is just too big and strong thier styles make for a boring fight ,

I thought it was the complete lack of aggression / effort shown by Haye with his refusal to even try and set the pace that made this fight as dull as dish water, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I thought it was the gulf in class and ability between the two fighters, but guess us seeing fights differerntly is part of the sports charm

kingraf wrote:
Wasnt the cut Vitali got against Lewis originally caused by the strap of the glove? Not exactly a Titanic hit.

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Nope, Lewis thows a right hand which catches Vitali on the eyelid and the skin seems to stretch and tear. However, it's with the knuckle part of the glove, not the laces, straps, tape or any other such nonsense. Lewis works on it and makes it worse with clean punches. The other cuts on Vitali's face and mouth are also caused by Lewis's punchess not by any other means such as Vitali's corner attempting to shave him and remove a wisdom tooth or whatever other ridiculous theories get put forward to discredit Lennox.

However, if Wlad was to face off against Haye again, I wouldn't be adverse to it being shown on ESPN although the likelihood would be that it would be something like Boxnation where, as Rowley said, they only need about 46 people to pay full price before they break even.....such are their low running costs

DAVE667 wrote:kingraf wrote:
Wasnt the cut Vitali got against Lewis originally caused by the strap of the glove? Not exactly a Titanic hit.

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Nope, Lewis thows a right hand which catches Vitali on the eyelid and the skin seems to stretch and tear. However, it's with the knuckle part of the glove, not the laces, straps, tape or any other such nonsense. Lewis works on it and makes it worse with clean punches. The other cuts on Vitali's face and mouth are also caused by Lewis's punchess not by any other means such as Vitali's corner attempting to shave him and remove a wisdom tooth or whatever other ridiculous theories get put forward to discredit Lennox.

However, if Wlad was to face off against Haye again, I wouldn't be adverse to it being shown on ESPN although the likelihood would be that it would be something like Boxnation where, as Rowley said, they only need about 46 people to pay full price before they break even.....such are their low running costs

Sorry Dave. You're wrong. Very wrong. Lewis catches him with a glancing blow and not from the knockle part of the glove. The smaller cuts were done by correct punches.

Can some put up footage of the punch and we can end this debate one way or the other? Not really arsed if I got it wrong but in my defence alcohol has played an important role in my life since that fight.

Can we also have footage of Lennox's uppercut and Sanders supposedly beating Vitali half to death in their fight to compare and contrast?

Union often has that much time on his hands, perhaps he can accomodate us.

https://www.606v2.com/t23085-vitali-klitschko-4440-2-0

All in there mate.

rowley wrote:

bhb001 wrote:

rycoys wrote:i would love to see haye against wlad again but there is one major problem ! it would happen in germany which means wlad would be allowed to use hes forearm and hold the back of hayes head , this is what killed the first fight, also i think wlad is just too big and strong thier styles make for a boring fight ,

I thought it was the complete lack of aggression / effort shown by Haye with his refusal to even try and set the pace that made this fight as dull as dish water, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I thought it was the gulf in class and ability between the two fighters, but guess us seeing fights differerntly is part of the sports charm

there certanily was not a gulf in class, wlad was too big and strong and was allowed to use hes size to hes advantage ! wlad was alot better on the night tho

Wlad was better on the night because he is a better boxer. He is better on any night you care to name.

azania wrote:Wlad was better on the night because he is a better boxer. He is better on any night you care to name.

i am not doubting wlads ability am just saying if wlad was not so much bigger and taller then haye and was not allowed to foul by useing hes forearms the fight would be alot closer , meanig there is not a gulf in class in terms of boxing!!

rycoys wrote:

azania wrote:Wlad was better on the night because he is a better boxer. He is better on any night you care to name.

i am not doubting wlads ability am just saying if wlad was not so much bigger and taller then haye

I believe the saying begins something along the lines of if my aunty had balls.

Yeah but if Wlad had an iron chin he would have blasted haye out of there in 1 round. But If haye had a chin and unending stamina - he would beat Muhammad Ali but but but ....Meltdown imminent - meltdown imminent....code re.... false alarm .. false alarm its just rycoys brain scan.

Am reminded of the old days of Tysonking and Damonknight, at least they had the mitigation that Tyson was worth getting excited about.