England in India

First topic message reminder :

England main side is in India from Nov 2012 thru end of Jan 2013.
The schedule below....and interestingly Eng Performance Side ( meaning A side?) will also be in India overlapping with the senior sides tour.....
I believe Netherland will also be playing the Eng Performance side in 3 games at Poona club.......why at Poona club ?

Tue Oct 30 - Thu Nov 1
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET TBC v England XI
Brabourne Stadium, Mumbai

Sat Nov 3 - Mon Nov 5
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET TBC v England XI
Bandra Kurla Complex, Mumbai

Thu Nov 8 - Sun Nov 11
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET TBC v England XI
Sardar Patel Stadium B Ground, Motera, Ahmedabad

Thu Nov 15 - Mon Nov 19
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET 1st Test - India v England
Sardar Patel Stadium, Motera, Ahmedabad

Fri Nov 23 - Tue Nov 27
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET 2nd Test - India v England
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai

Wed Dec 5 - Sun Dec 9
09:00 local | 03:30 GMT
04:30 CET 3rd Test - India v England
Eden Gardens, Kolkata

Thu Dec 13 - Mon Dec 17
09:30 local | 04:00 GMT
05:00 CET 4th Test - India v England
Vidarbha Cricket Association Stadium, Jamtha, Nagpur

Thu Dec 20
20:00 local | 14:30 GMT
15:30 CET 1st T20I - India v England
Subrata Roy Sahara Stadium, Pune

Sat Dec 22
20:00 local | 14:30 GMT
15:30 CET 2nd T20I - India v England
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai

Sun Jan 6 TBC v England XI
Feroz Shah Kotla, DelhiDelhi

Tue Jan 8 TBC v England XI
Harbax Singh Stadium, DelhiDelhi

Fri Jan 11
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 1st ODI - India v England
Saurashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Rajkot

Tue Jan 15
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 2nd ODI - India v England
Nehru Stadium, Kochi

Sat Jan 19
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 3rd ODI - India v England
HEC International Cricket Stadium Complex, Ranchi

Wed Jan 23
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 4th ODI - India v England
Himachal Pradesh Cricket Association Stadium, Dharamsala

Sun Jan 27
14:30 local | 09:00 GMT
10:00 CET 5th ODI - India v England
Punjab Cricket Association Stadium, Mohali, Chandigarh

Swann dismisses India's spin threat..screams CI headline

http://www.espncricinfo.com/


Look Swann is talking again.....why?...because 3 days passed since he went to the media talking about something

so its pretty much been confirmed that Finn is out of the first test with a thigh strain, and thats a big blow IMO..

i expect the attack then to be

7.Patel
8.Swann
9.Broad
10.Anderson
11.Onions

Bres is so out of form, so i dont think he will play, and oninos wicket to wicket style suits indian pitches, where the odd ball wont bounce as much as as he bowls so straight should clatter into the stumps!

I'm faily sure they will go with Bresnan for Finn. England management like him, the Indian pithces will suit him if he's on form and he was probably the pick of the England seamers in the warm-ups so far.

I think if this Test was being played in September, Onions would have played.

But since then Bresnan's had more bowling, got better figures from the warm-ups and seems to have rediscovered some form. He also has a fine record v India in all forms of the game.

Bresnan's 128kph bowling will be meat and drinks....on thee type of flat dusty pitches that will be served
Indians would so love a medium pace attack of Braod, Bresnan plus patel, Swann and Anderson.

Anderson is the only threat.....fiwhile the ball is new.

Swann is a clver crafty bowler all the time....but his effectiveness is more dependent on seamers setting it up for him...with early wicket.

England will miss Monty and onions but it might be T3 by the time they figure it out and have played themselves out of the series

Swann flies home and won't play the last tour match. His daughter is unwell and he is allowed to spend some time with her. He's expected to be back before the first test.
Perfectly understandable, but a blow nevertheless for England, they'll be without 3 of their first choice attack for the last practice match as Broad and Finn are recovering from injury.

msp83 wrote:Swann flies home and won't play the last tour match. His daughter is unwell and he is allowed to spend some time with her. He's expected to be back before the first test.
Perfectly understandable, but a blow nevertheless for England, they'll be without 3 of their first choice attack for the last practice match as Broad and Finn are recovering from injury.

Totally agree with the view and tone above.

Not a criticism at all but a comment - incredibly disruptive to Swann's and England's preparations. Even if Swann is back for the first Test, his frame of mind will probably be far from ideal.

Anyway, more importantly, hoping his daughter makes a full and swift recovery.

Indeed, hope the little girl makes a quick recovery and Swanny will be at his best.

Ganguly and Tendulkar and Dravid take their families on tour....
they take hotels at their own cost.......families stay close to them but not in same room during the games.
between the game they stay with the families......that's actually good for their peace of mind.

For Swann-----I think it's good that he makes a quick trip....will give him peace...and I don't think he will miss much.....spin bowlers don't need batsmen or pace bowler type match practise

The last of the tour games is underway and England are batting against Haryana. No chance for Root, Pietersen, Cook and Prior are playing, and James Anderson is given a bit of rest after playing the first 2 tour games. Graeme Onions, Monty Panesar and Stuart Meaker are also playing, so does Samit Patel, who in all likelyhood start the first test.
England are playing an international spinner at last, Amit Mishra the out of favor former India Leggy is leading Haryana, but interestingly he hasn't taken the ball even after the England openers reached 92 without loss.

England 136 without loss. Haryana bowled 28 overs so far and not a single one from Amit Mishra so far.

yeah..it's 45 overs so far....and Mishra has not bowled.
I don't think he will bowl.

the pitch is flat....bowling docile and gentle....and Haryana team uninterested....pulled out in between their Ranji games and thrown into a match that doesn't count for them.

wasn't Hayana bowled out for 55 runs and thrashed by weak Vidarbha in 3 days in the first round Ranji ?

Mishra comes and immediately picks up 2 wkts.

spinners have all 3 wkts now

323-3. Good day for England thus far. Mishra may have two wickets, but he's gone at nearly 6 an over (as he did in England).

KP cracks an 86 ball hundred......against a mild attack except Mishra.....who from the figures would seem was taken to cleaners...inpsite his 2 wkts

First signs of dominance normally shown by champion teams comes from eng.......and no wonder it is "The KP" behind the aggression

Nice to see KP getting among the runs. If he plays the way he did here and take the attack to the Indian spinners, that could be ominous signs for India. If Cook who has a fine record in India and Trott who played spin relatively better than many others last winter also get their act together, India will have a good challenge to look forward to.

skyeman wrote:

KP_fan wrote:they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...
and their opponent's bowling gentle medium pace...club class.....so they need to score big and fast...regardless of the pitch
they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...


they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...

bowling to a club side with 2 imported FC players on a difficult pitch........so slow scoring against them is OK

Please get real. Even a team consisting 11 Brian Lara's could not score 550 runs by lunch on day two on that pitch, even if it were against the combined universities.

But keep trying

England XI 408/3 (90.0 ov)

Haryana

England XI won the toss and elected to bat

Stumps - Day 1
England XI RR 4.53


there were no XI Brian Laras...only one KP and a few mortals around him .....and they are well on course for a 550 by lunch on D2 ....unless they get bored of smacking the ball around the park and declared before that

selvey says :
mike selvey‏@selvecricket

England finish day 408 for 3. Only quality bowler Amit Mishra kept himself out of firing line while KP in. Leading from the rear.

KP_fan wrote:

skyeman wrote:

KP_fan wrote:they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...
and their opponent's bowling gentle medium pace...club class.....so they need to score big and fast...regardless of the pitch
they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...


they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...

bowling to a club side with 2 imported FC players on a difficult pitch........so slow scoring against them is OK

Please get real. Even a team consisting 11 Brian Lara's could not score 550 runs by lunch on day two on that pitch, even if it were against the combined universities.

But keep trying

England XI 408/3 (90.0 ov)

Haryana

England XI won the toss and elected to bat

Stumps - Day 1
England XI RR 4.53


there were no XI Brian Laras...only one KP and a few mortals around him .....and they are well on course for a 550 by lunch on D2 ....unless they get bored of smacking the ball around the park and declared before that

Different pitch though and a lesser team.

Hoping the seamers do well tomorrow and that Monty is not gifted a few cheap wickets. The increasing likelihood of Panesar playing is extremely worrying from an English POV, tbh.

While there is clearly a lot of praise for KP here, it looks like Cook is trying to give him a run for his money - 97 in 115 balls with 20 fours (must be too hot to run singles ). Between the two of them, that's 207 runs off the bat in 209 balls (or just under 35 overs). Would be good going in an ODI, never mind in a 3 day game.

fantastic day for england!

wont be mentioned much, but another crucial knock for compton, coming into form at the right time.

Compton, Cook, Pietersen, Bell, all scored runs. The quality of the attack was most certainly poor, but scoring runs out in the middle is important and so a good day for England.

Yep. Obviously things will be somewhat more difficult in the Test, but good that all members of our top six will at least have a 50 to their name in the lead in.

Its a four day game so we can afford to give Bell, Patel, Prior and Bresnan some batting tomorrow, but hopefully we don't go on too long.

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

skyeman wrote:

KP_fan wrote:they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...
and their opponent's bowling gentle medium pace...club class.....so they need to score big and fast...regardless of the pitch
they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...


they(Eng) are the no.1 side in tests.....OK till about a game back...

bowling to a club side with 2 imported FC players on a difficult pitch........so slow scoring against them is OK

Please get real. Even a team consisting 11 Brian Lara's could not score 550 runs by lunch on day two on that pitch, even if it were against the combined universities.

But keep trying

England XI 408/3 (90.0 ov)

Haryana

England XI won the toss and elected to bat

Stumps - Day 1
England XI RR 4.53


there were no XI Brian Laras...only one KP and a few mortals around him .....and they are well on course for a 550 by lunch on D2 ....unless they get bored of smacking the ball around the park and declared before that

Different pitch though and a lesser team.

differnce was in the England team.
first and foremost...KP was playing....and like only he can ...
compton was playing without the pressure of root....so playing more freely...and Cook was playing instead of a Root who was bogged down for survival in the last game.

On the back of KP Eng simply played to potential

Samit Patel scores another 50, he has had a fine time of late with the bat, and his handy bowling would now make him a sure starter for that first test, perhaps he deserves a decent run in the side.

they did 520...but the worrying factor for England are the following figures.... spinners took 8 for a 180....and yadav is only partime and these are his best FC figures now...
J Yadav 23 3 110 4 4.78

A Mishra 17.2 1 67 4 3.86


If Yadav accounts as a spinner then in the Indian playing XI there will be atleast 4 spinners better than Yadav.....i.e Ojha Ashwin, Yuvraj and Sehwag.
If given a notice tendulkar can practise...he is still India's best mystery spinner

This is 3rd time in 3 games.....Eng has handed part time spinners their career best figures......Yuvraj's 5-fer in the first game and I can't remember who it was in the 2nd game.

and even without looking at the stats of how England are handing out wkts to C and D grdae spinner in India......Boycott thinks no one in their right mind can back England:

Personally I would given Eng chance IF...they were able to pick an attack comprising of Swann, Monty, Finn and Anderson


http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2012/content/current/story/590356.html

GB: Good question. Yes and no. England haven't convinced anyone that they can play the turning ball. I don't think they've convinced themselves. They might talk [about how] they've done lots of planning and preparation, but they actually haven't done it in the middle. So it really boils down to what sort of pitches are produced by the Indian groundsmen. If the pitches turn, which they usually do… by the third, fourth or fifth day they will turn at some stage. How much will they spin is important. And who wins the toss, that's vital. If you can win the toss and have a chance of putting up a really big first-innings total on a pretty good batting surface before the ball spins, then make no mistake, that is really a vital factor.

If the pitches stay flat, England have some good batsmen who can score heavily. But I don't think anybody can believe that you can go to India and the pitches won't turn at some stage. It just always happens that way. Occasionally you get a very flat one over five days. Nobody can back England. Nobody in their right mind can back England until England play well on the subcontinent.

Boycott was a very good batsman.

But anyone using his opinions as a basis for investment at the betting shop would have gone broke years ago.

good response by Haryana....given that they are one of the weaker Ranji sides and only a few days back they were rolled over for 55 against Vidarbha.

Dewan and sunny signh's 50s should make them feel confident since they have come against an internatonal quality attack

Hope Dewan can go on to get a 100 tomm

alfie wrote:Boycott was a very good batsman.

But anyone using his opinions as a basis for investment at the betting shop would have gone broke years ago.

I remember just before the 4th Test of the last Ashes series, he said England wouldn't win at the MCG. Cue England to roll the Aussies out for 98 and win by an innings!

I think we can now be pretty certain that England's preferred XI will be Cook, Compton, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Patel, Prior, Broad, Swann, Finn, Anderson.

With Finn a doubt for the 1st Test, Bresnan will probably play.

Agree with that Shelsey, and then it'll probably be Bairstow in for Bell for the second Test. 4 nil, we're gonna win 4 nil!

^ Is Broad fit enough to play ?

People seem to think Broad will be OK. Finn hasn't actually been ruled out yet but looks like more of a doubt. Swann is due back in good time.

Hopefully Bell will be able to play the 2nd Test, but that does look unlikely with the quick turnaround between Tests.

Surely Finn can't play after hardly bowling a ball on tour so far ? Even if he were fit I doubt they'd risk him on such a preparation.

Broad also worries me a bit - if the attack is to be three seamers plus Swann and Patel we really don't want to risk one of the quicks breaking down. Would rather make sure the eleven are all fully fit and think about getting the casualties back aboard later in the series.

I tend to agree with you on Finn - best to sit him out of the 1st Test, having (if I recall correctly) only bowled on the first morning of the first game.

The thing is that with the lack of tour games neither are ever going to get a run out. If Broad's fit, I'd suggest he should play - in any case I think he'd have sat this one out along with Anderson.

Duty281 wrote: 4 nil, we're gonna win 4 nil!

and I can see pigs flying......cute little pink ones..... sky full of oink-oinks....and look they chose the trajectory over the channell....to the Land of Baguettes, Cafe Au Laits and Carla Bruni

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote: 4 nil, we're gonna win 4 nil!

and I can see pigs flying......cute little pink ones..... sky full of oink-oinks....and look they chose the trajectory over the channell....to the Land of Baguettes, Cafe Au Laits and Carla Bruni

Don't worry, I am being sarcastic. Two one, we're gonna win two one.

Shelsey93 wrote:I tend to agree with you on Finn - best to sit him out of the 1st Test, having (if I recall correctly) only bowled on the first morning of the first game.

The thing is that with the lack of tour games neither are ever going to get a run out. If Broad's fit, I'd suggest he should play - in any case I think he'd have sat this one out along with Anderson.

On Broad

@selvecricket
@shankyengcric still optimistic but actually less so than finn

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote: 4 nil, we're gonna win 4 nil!

and I can see pigs flying......cute little pink ones..... sky full of oink-oinks....and look they chose the trajectory over the channell....to the Land of Baguettes, Cafe Au Laits and Carla Bruni

Don't worry, I am being sarcastic. Two one, we're gonna win two one.

i was also being sarcastic when I said pigs, pink ones ( in plural)
since you say 2-1.......i also downgrade to one pig flying

I have completed my re integration process as an England supporter

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2012/content/current/story/590513.html

it is worth noting that against 40.1 overs of spin they lost eight wickets for 177. Yadav, an unremarkable bowler playing only his fifth first-class game, finished with 4 for 110, the best figures of his career to date.


"They looked very uncomfortable against spin," Yadav said. "That's why they resorted to playing that way. If you are comfortable you play from the crease. You would use your feet once or twice. But from the outset they had a mindset to attack the spinners, because they were unsure how to play them. The wicket was not offering much to the spinners. It was very slow and didn't turn much at all. There were uncomfortable."

magnanimity of BCCI
and Finn bowling in nets off a full run up...
will they risk playing him?
the worst thing eng could do is playing both finn and broad....at best they can hedge their bets...

Matt Prior was forced off the pitch suffering from a stomach upset.

Poor Prior was obliged to make two emergency dashes for the bathroom, but England's initial request to use a substitute wicketkeeper from outside their playing XI was declined by the umpires and match referee.

Ultimately, however, the BCCI, in an admirably magnanimous gesture, were contacted and made a special dispensation towards England. Jonny Bairstow took the gloves and Prior retired to a dark room.

There was better news off the pitch for England, though. Steven Finn has improved more than expected and was able to bowl off his full run-up in the nets .
"Finn is off his full run now," Bresnan said. "That's a very good sign. With six days to go, there's no reason why he shouldn't be fully fit.

first reports on the pitch for the test match:

http://sports.ndtv.com/india-vs-england-2012/news/item/199014-india-vs-england-re-laid-pitch-at-motera-may-help-hosts

That, however, has already changed in Ahmedabad, if sources are to be believed. Wisden India has learned that the pitch at Motera has been re-laid, specifically to ensure that the elements are allowed to play a part in natural wear and tear. Until recently, the primary constituent of the pitch block was pond clay, which had a clay content that was in the range of 70-80%. This meant that the block held together remarkably well, breaking up in only the most extreme circumstances.

What the Gujarat Cricket Association has done, however, is to reduce the clay content in the block to something approaching 55%, using farm-land clay rather than pond clay, and mixing it with 35% sand content. This process was begun in early September, soon after a BCCI conclave on pitch preparation. In layman’s terms, what this does is make the pitch-block more amenable to wear and tear, bringing the spinners into play earlier than before. What it’s also likely to do is make the surface more abrasive, bringing reverse swing too into the picture.

While the move to give spinners a bigger say in the game will be welcomed by the Indian team, whose recent home wins against the West Indies and New Zealand have been powered by the R Ashwin-Pragyan Ojha duo, they will be the first to know that pitch preparation is an inexact science. In theory, the pitch should play to India’s strengths, but it’s never easy to predict how a re-laid pitch will behave.

The four-day warm-up match between England and Haryana will be played on the B Ground at Motera on a pitch that has plenty of live grass on it. The net bowlers who gave Kevin Pietersen a workout on Wednesday, who play almost all their cricket at the B Ground, told Wisden India they had never seen such a green pitch anywhere in Gujarat before this game. Andy Flower, England’s team director, had a look at the B Ground pitch, but was yet to examine the surface on which the Test would be played.

Dhiraj Parsana, the former allrounder who was a Ranji stalwart but played only two Tests for India and is in charge of pitch preparation at Motera, declined to speak to the media.

KP_fan wrote:http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2012/content/current/story/590513.html

it is worth noting that against 40.1 overs of spin they lost eight wickets for 177. Yadav, an unremarkable bowler playing only his fifth first-class game, finished with 4 for 110, the best figures of his career to date.


"They looked very uncomfortable against spin," Yadav said. "That's why they resorted to playing that way. If you are comfortable you play from the crease. You would use your feet once or twice. But from the outset they had a mindset to attack the spinners, because they were unsure how to play them. The wicket was not offering much to the spinners. It was very slow and didn't turn much at all. There were uncomfortable."

with all due respect to Yadav this is a fairly rubbish comment. Michael Clarke is one of the best players of spin in the world and uses his feet all the time, ditto De Villiers. Amla prefers to play from the crease, I think it's about what you feel comfortable with. England were crease-bound in the UAE and that was a disaster, as an England fan I much prefer seeing KP using his feet (as he did against SL), ditto with Bell. If Trott's running down the wicket I'd more worried...

of course Mishra keeping himself out of the attack while England's batsmen were in probably also had something to do with the spinners success: if we're relying on Onions and Meaker to score runs we are indeed in trouble. Finally Yadav's figures don't look that great when you factor in the rubbish eco rate of over 4.5 and the fact three of his wickets were batsmen having a slog because enough runs were on the board.

Haryana get to their highest FC total in a while as Rahul Dewan cracks an unbeaten 144...against a test match side.

only the 2nd man in the history of Haryana to carry his bat throuhg

England afraid to enforce a follow-on and killing the spirit of cricket by not trying to force a result
captain Mishra's post match commnets tonight

Good game for England so far. All the batsmen amongst the runs, crucially Compton who has so far rewarded the selectors faith in him, and Bell - necessary for the latter's confidence.

It now seems certain Patel will get the number 6 slot from Bairstow, which is a bit harsh on the latter, but there you go.

If Finn is fit then that's a big bonus, but I tend to side with alfie - hard to see how you can pick someone who doesn't have any match fitness. On the other hand, with England clear underdogs, and India clearly having issues with genuine pace it may be worth a punt. I'm not so much concerned about him breaking down (his injury history has been pretty good recently, and a hamstring twinge isn't exactly a recurring type problem like a back-injury or ankle problem could be), but more about him being a bit wayward and out of rythm. I guess the England staff will be monitoring his net form closely, and make a call based on that.

As for Yadav's comments: the term "mindgames" springs to mind. As MfC pointed out, Mishra pointedly made sure he didn't bowl at England's better players when set, and Yadav went at 5 an over.

Of course India are still big favourites, but England have gotten some decent stuff out of their warm-ups.

Apart from the injuries , England have had a nearly perfect three game warm up.
(a win tomorrow would be nice. Might be hard to force , but who knows?)
All the batsmen have had time at the wicket - maybe they have been deprived of top class bowling to set themselves against , but I guess that is the home team's prerogative ....on balance I suspect the confidence they will have gained from this might outweigh the negatives ; we shall see. Certainly the top seven now look set in stone with Compton showing something to reward the faith placed in him and Patel quite frankly doing nothing wrong in all the matches...It is a little hard on Bairstow who has also done all that could be asked of him , but I think the issue of team balance was always going to favour Patel , provided his form was right - and it surely is. Bairstow will get his chance when Bell takes his family break.

The one thing up in the air is the four main bowlers. Anderson , obviously , and Swann assuming his child's health allows a timely return ; but some doubts over the other two. How fit is Broad ? Presume he would play if 100% , but ...
I am a Bresnan fan , and reckon he has probably done enough to earn a spot , but as Mike says , Finn does bring extra pace and will tempt them if he appears to have regained his rhythm. I tend to see it as a Finn or Broad choice , plus Bresnan. Pity Onions hasn't taken wickets here , but I guess he only gets in if both the tall bowlers are ruled out...
Maybe I am a cockeyed optimist , but I actually give England a good chance .