Player payment: WRU statement

"The WRU acknowledges that under the IRB Regulations all clubs may pay players for their services.

In the appropriate circumstances the WRU believes that payment of players is a legitimate function that can enhance the standards of play and serves to keep the very best players playing rugby in Wales for those clubs operating at semi- professional and professional levels.

However, the WRU does not believe that the payment of players is necessary for clubs below this level. Furthermore it is actively considering measures to discourage this practice."

link

We all know this takes place in the community game. Examples of clubs paying players and rocketing up through the league structure are common, but examples of clubs to fall foul of paying players only to go bust and or struggle when the money dries up are also easy to find in the Welsh game. Tonmawr and Newport Saracens are a glaring example what happens when a club busts. Penarth and Caerphilly have also experienced problems in the past few seasons. What measures could the WRU realistically impose to restrict the payment of players at community level? Is any action even legally viable? Thoughts?

It's difficult to regulate - and I suppose some of these payments may even be cash in hand, so would be even harder to stop.

Not sure realistically waht they can do about it to be honest. Although isn't the prem now ring-fenced, so there is no realisitc reason for clubs to try and shoot up the rankings as there will be no monetary gain at the end.

Also the WRU are trying to encourage youngsters to stay at their local clubs and not to jump ship to the nearest 'big' club in order to try an level the playing feild. This should also encourage the regions (and their 3 main feeder teams) to look around their region (and catchment areas) in order to be able to pull int eh best players as opposed to focusing on just on or to places.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Not sure realistically waht they can do about it to be honest. Although isn't the prem now ring-fenced, so there is no realisitc reason for clubs to try and shoot up the rankings as there will be no monetary gain at the end.

Also the WRU are trying to encourage youngsters to stay at their local clubs and not to jump ship to the nearest 'big' club in order to try an level the playing feild. This should also encourage the regions (and their 3 main feeder teams) to look around their region (and catchment areas) in order to be able to pull int eh best players as opposed to focusing on just on or to places.

I think that this has been a problem with Wales for a long long time, in the shamature era you would have players leaving clubs for bigger clubs quite a bit, and the WRU knew there were payments but turned a blind eye, this set a trend for when professionialism came in, that players feel less loyal to clubs that brought them through.

Look at the number of players that have come up through the Dragons system, only to leave, compared to Connacht (players coming from thier acamady not moving from another province for gametime) Griffin, Duffy, Swift etc, these players could have gone to England, or maybe another province for their careers but out of loyality stay, or return in Duffys case. I think this is down to Club loyality in the amature era, both Rugby and GAA, what incentive is better than staying and playing for your local team, when there is no money involved, and hence players are reluctant to move.

I think that apart from the shamature era, and the regions being new, soe players felt no loyality to them, but now that there are more players coming through that have been part of the system there whole career we will see more loyality to regions.

Kingshu - I am talking about kids (under 12-youth) are being encouraged to stay with their local club. I know in Pembs there is a real habbit of parents moving their kids to clubs that are more likely to be selected to the county side etc. I think the idea is building up the attitude of htis is where I am from, and this is who I am playing for, as opposed to the attitude that is out there at the moment of I want to play for the side that wins the most games.

I think Connacht are a bad example. The IRFU already make it very clear that playing outside of Ireland will probably cost you international honours. Bowe was the last of the current batch and his only defence was he had signed for the OSpreys prior to this. Now he is back in Ulster it will even further strengthen their cause. So basically the reason a lot of players stay at Connacht is to secure gametime throughout the season which can potentially help their International ambitions.

Players will always go where they will get money though, at any level. Even more so for younger players like students. I don't see the WRU being able to enforce taking points off of clubs as a penalty, because who is going to come forward and say "I'm on £50 a game, please dock my club 10 points and get me black listed from every club in the country."

Welshmushroom wrote:I think Connacht are a bad example. The IRFU already make it very clear that playing outside of Ireland will probably cost you international honours. Bowe was the last of the current batch and his only defence was he had signed for the OSpreys prior to this. Now he is back in Ulster it will even further strengthen their cause. So basically the reason a lot of players stay at Connacht is to secure gametime throughout the season which can potentially help their International ambitions.

I don't think that is the case, if it's a 50/50 call it will be th ehome based player that gets selected as he can attend all the training sessions.

If you have a good player and a slightly lesser player, but the slightly lesser player can attend all camps in fully involved with the coaches and team tactics etc etc it may be enough to push the lesser player ahead in the pecking order. I think that most Irish internationals are at home as they have pride in thier province, more importantly the province can match their ambition as well, and they can get a central contract, or rest periods and prolong thier career. Why would you move to have ok more money short term, but a shorter career probabley, and miss out on a number of the training camps an dteam building excersies so when ou are picked for Ireland yu have to catch up, and could feel a bit of an outsider? Also if someone nearly as good as you is in Ireland making these camps they could very well take your place?

The last paragraph which is not included in the fisrt post states -

'The WRU therefore urges all clubs below Premiership to operate on a strictly amateur basis, as it firmly believes that such an approach offers long-term sustainability for clubs in Wales. The only exception to this situation would be in the case of a club that has been granted an 'A' Licence by the WRU and which is capable of challenging for inclusion in the Premiership.'

All this will do is create a two tier system in the new Championship division where the likes of Ebbw Vale who meet the A licence criteria will pay players and run away with the division whilst the lesser teams e.g Narberth, Whitland, Blackwood and Bargoed will be left to compete on an uneven playing field.

If the WRU want to police the payment of players then there must be a distinct line between the professional/semi professional game and what is termed as the grass roots/amateur game.

You cannot have a situation where both exist wthin the same division.

I know in ireland clubs can only have two paid players.

It does seem strange that teams can be both professional and non professional in the same division.

I would wonder if the A licence is more for RGC then for the other clubs

RGC is in Division 1 East a Division below the Championship.

It smacks of double standards.

If the game is open then its open.

What's wrong with a player being paid expenses if he's playing at a higher level?