Shane Williams for the Lions?

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Anyone think that the publicity loving Shane Williams will make himself available for one last Lions tour now that Gats has been appointed as coach? Always room for one more swan song with Williams!

1. He is better than any of the wingers being mentioned...even north, McV and Bowe and to even put him in the same sentence as Cuthbert is plain stupid

2. Didn't play well for the Lions?....to those of us who were in the stands at the 3rd test he played like a warrior poet

3. 30 quid says he goes

Shane Williams is a quality player but these days more likely to be seen in Strictly Come Dancing than on the Lion's tour.

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anotherworldofpain wrote:

belovedfrosties wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:An international try?

Well its fairly well known that last season he was completely out of form,...

Allow me to stop you there. Surely you don't want Lions picked on "a fairly good international record" but on current form. Surely the last two Lions excusrsions revealed that already.

I was using that to show that he is proven international quality, not just good in the league, and not as the sole basis to pick him. A phrase often used when justifying Shanes inclusion last year was "form is temporary, class is permanent". Ashton has the class and skill required to be a world class winger his record shows this, especially when you consider he barely scored a try last season, he still has a better try scoring ratio than George "the old messiah" North. I said that he is coming back into form and will show that in the AIs and then the 6N, leading to a spot on the Lions tour.

I am honestly shocked at the number of people thinking Visser should be on the plane with zero evidence of how well he plays against top level test teams. Ashton has shown that he can and if in any sort of form should tour ahead of Visser unless Tim outplays him, until this happens i can see no basis to claim that Ashton is no where near as good as him.

The problem with wingers is North has set the standard; gone are the days when a winger was fleet of foot and took the outside, when rugby players were of various shapes and sizes. Now all wingers have to be huge. This is obvioulsy a mistake and i hope Wade proves that, as Shane did with bells on and as Ashton does to a lesser extent. But if you can have a 6'3 16 stone fast winger he will always be favoured and especially by Gatland.

I'm not sure that the Squashed Goblin would come back from Japan unless he thought that he was actually going to start a test.

I am a (grudging but admitted) fan of Williams but I can think of a dozen wingers who have the raw power and (now) 8 yard line-breaking speed that he doesn't have any more - Visser, Bowe, Ashton, Wade, North, Sharples are just a few of them.

I think that the wing position is different to, say, the likes of lock (which is very specialist and where there is still a lot of debate as to the stand out candidates) as there are even a number of full backs quick enough to double as wingers and offer something different by way of kicking game - Foden, May, Brown and Hogg spring to mind.

Mowgli not every winger has to be big.

If that was the case Banahan should have ran over Shane. Guess what the little man stopped the big one.

You contradict yourself. Which do you think Gatland will go for? The giant wingers of Cuthbert and North or the little winger Shane?

Pedigree? Are we playing rugby? or showing dogs?

Put it this way, Mills Muliaina had more experience and pedigree but everyone in NZ prefer Israel Dagg for the world cup.

Or, another way, I can't think of many players with more pedigree and experience than Shane Williams and Jonny Wilkinson, Brian O'Driscoll and Ronan O'Garra. But should they form the Lions back line?

beshocked wrote:Never said Ashton is but he's a proven finisher at international level - 15 tries in 23 appearances. 2 vs Australia. In comparison Visser has only played 2 games.

The way you Celts talk about Visser it seems as if you think he's the Messiah.

Shane Williams shouldn't be recalled. Too old now.

No No - Visser is only a Messiah to our deprived Scottish brethren

Bowe and North are the true Messiahs

If either Williams or Wilkinson go I would be both amazed and very very disapointed in Gatland

Will Shane go on the lions tour? Lets be hoenst, no. Not unless hes going as some type of ambassador who happens to strip off in the last test to score another last try and in another last game.....

Theres a plethora of wing options available, it may sound a bit biased, but North & Cuthbert for me are where its at at the moment, Visser's going to surprise a fair few english posters in the 6nations i think(going on what ive seen on here not many seem to rate his chances at the top level), I've said since the signing was announced that Ashton could do very, very well at Sarries and whatever is said about him, he scores trys at every level. Then of course theres Tommy Bowe, who just seems to be able to do everything thats asked of him, add to that the young exciting talents coming through a la Wade/Harry Robinson/Lee Jones/Sharples.

Not to mention the FBs who are right at home on the wing and the utility backs that'll no doubt be taken..... like Hook

I love any threads involving Tim Visser because they invariably descend into the same increasingly desperate drivel about him being "unproven at the highest level". Let's just save a bit of time - I'll paraphase this well-trodden bilge chronologically and then (I promise) never mention it again. At least not until next spring.

1. Debuted at 19 for Newcastle Falcons against Worcester Warriors in September 2006. Came on as a replacement, scoring the winning try in the last play of the game. Some posters suggested this was unremarkable.

2. In his first season, he was top scorer in the Magners with 10 tries (2 more than Tommy Bowe), won the Rabo's Young Player of the Season award and featured in the Magners Dream Team. Some posters suggested that this was just luck.

3. In his second season he was top scorer, broke the record for the most tries scored in a Celtic/Magners/Rabo league season (14) and featured in the Magners Dream Team. Some posters suggested that not only was this just luck but was in fact proof that he played against 'weaker teams' during the international window, therefore scoring tries was 'easier'.

4. In his third season, he he was top scorer with 13 tries in the RaboDirect PRO12, four in the Heineken Cup (giving an unprecedented total tally of 17), won the Player of the Season and Player's Player of the Season awards and featured in the Rabo Dream Team (no other player having done so for three consecutive seasons). Some posters suggested that not only was this just luck, was in fact further proof that he played against 'weaker teams' during the international window but moreover that it was 'clear' he would not cut it against international teams, such as England.

5. Tim then appeared for the Barbarians against England on 30 May 2011. He scored two tries, including the winner as the Ba-Ba's won 32 - 38. Some posters suggested that despite playing alongside some of the finest internationalists in the world and playing against an England national side, this was not a 'proper' international and therefore it was still 'clear' he would not cut it against international teams.

6. Tim then played for Scotland as a full international against Fiji on 16 June and Samoa on 23 June. He scored 2 tries against Fiji. Some posters are apparently now suggesting that these are not the correct 'kind' of international teams and that it is 'not fair' or 'misleading' to point out that Tim's try per game rate for internationals is, of course, one per game.

7. This season, Tim has played 2 games and scored 4 tries, making him the highest scorer at this early stage. Some posters apparently still believe that this means nothing.

Really, what's the use?

Tim is actually not the Messiah for Scotland fans (FES will confirm whom that is, as that moniker belongs to his favourite player), but it is rather difficult to suggest that he's not one of the country's best wingers.

Here's a flash - the Lions aren't selected on who has scored the most international tries in the past.
They tend to favour the players that are likely to score the most in the future.

Time will tell. Hey. There's still a toy at the bottom of this pram. Aces.

completely rediculous question. i dont think either SW or JW will go. and if i had to pick one it would be JW.....plenty of good wingers

That's why SW should play 9.

Sounds legit, he's a game breaker

George Carlin

I admit Visser has done well to score tries and seems to have a knack for it. Would be interesting to see a breakdown of who he scored against and to see whether he is good vs all opposition or is just good during IWs and soft opposition.

Barbarians game is a friendly. Fiji aren't in the top 10. Visser didn't score vs Samoa.

Are you seriously suggesting a Barbarians game has the same importance as a calcutta match encounter in the 6 nations? Actually it probably has equal importance to Visser to be fair as he's not Scottish.

I know that in the HC Visser failed to score a try vs Toulouse and Ulster - is it a coincidence they were the two toughest sides Edinburgh faced?

Visser still has a lot to prove. Looking forward to the Heineken Cup more so now. Really wanting my side to play and beat the Pro12 sides. Can they live up to the hype?

George Carlin have got your crystal ball out yet?

Beshocked, in fairness, how far did sarries get in the HC last year? How far did edinburgh get?

... sorry couldnt resist.

I'm not a massive fan of championing visser above all else, but the guy has all the attributes to succeed at test level, seeing him on a few occasions I have no doubt he'll be a good player for scotland. He seems to get his body position correct everytime he has a sniff of the tryline. Hes a huge unit, and hes quick in all directions, not just in a straight line. He's very hard to stop one on one and his support play is coming on very well all the time. Hes not the finished article, but the scary thing is (as it is with north and cuthbert) is that he will improve.

The battle of the wings for the lions is going to be huge, just like the battle for the back-row spots. If only the 9/10 spots were the same.....

beshocked wrote:George Carlin have got your crystal ball out yet?

I have. I foresee a tall Dutchman wearing red and...he's running, he's running fast.