"No fight is worth a human life"

Richard Steele on those 2 seconds.

After Mills Lane, probably the best ref in one of the best eras in boxing. He has not yet entered into the IBHoF and this is due to those 2 seconds.

When Taylor was taken to hospital after the fight, he was diagnosed as being severely dehydrated. One more punch could have killed him.

In praise of Richard Steele. Great decision.

+1

With 2 seconds, 2 minutes or 2 rounds left, if you can't defend yourself it needs to be called off.

It seems he is being shunned by the boxing establishment. There's a very good article on him.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/boxing--richard-steele-deserves-to-be-in-boxing-hall-of-fame-for-decisions-inside-and-outside-of-ring.html

B******t............

Steele was King's lackey........King's biggest treasure after Tyson...

The guy dominated the fight gets knocked down and it's blindingly obvious the red lights are flashing....

Save your credit pal...I'd take it if Mills Lane making a decision like that..

But not Steele..Taylor was ripped off....

Look at Tyson-Bruno......How many elbows did Bruno take...Wasn't that a smack in the head he took after going down....

I'm no brit but that was a disgrace too....

The guy smelt...

In praise of Richard Steele. Great decision.

---------------

It was a fair decision given that Taylor was unresponsive when Steele asked him if he was okay. Taylor was completely out of it and at that point , the fact there was but two seconds left in the fight is irrelevant as Steele had to assess whether Taylor was fit to continue and clearly he wasn't.

What bugs me more about the fight is the way in which Taylor could not resist engaging in a slug fest every so often with Chavez. Had he have just boxed throughout he would have taken the fight and no doubt not have had the prime beaten out of him.

This fight irks me and is one of the reasons I don't rate Chavez half as much as a lot of other people. Chavez had trouble with slick boxers and Taylor had all the tools to beat him comfortbaly but he couldn't help succumbiong to his pride and engaing in a war every so often.

All in all Taylor has no-one to blame but himself for this loss.

Super D Boon wrote:In praise of Richard Steele. Great decision.

--------------

This fight irks me and is one of the reasons I don't rate Chavez half as much as a lot of other people. Chavez had trouble with slick boxers and Taylor had all the tools to beat him comfortbaly but he couldn't help succumbiong to his pride and engaing in a war every so often.

Do you not rate Duran for the same reasons?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:B******t............

Steele was King's lackey........King's biggest treasure after Tyson...

The guy dominated the fight gets knocked down and it's blindingly obvious the red lights are flashing....

Save your credit pal...I'd take it if Mills Lane making a decision like that..

But not Steele..Taylor was ripped off....

Look at Tyson-Bruno......How many elbows did Bruno take...Wasn't that a smack in the head he took after going down....

I'm no brit but that was a disgrace too....

The guy smelt...

After taking over 10 seconds to see if Taylor was OK, Taylor failed to respond to instructions. Had he let the fight continue, notwithstanding Taylor's health, he would have ben cheating Chavez because had the KD happened in R10 the fight would have been stopped.

Great decision from a great ref.

You're just being provocative..

He was a poor ref..hence resistance at his HOF admittance....

Nobody of above average intelligence bought the stoppage..HBo and all the magazines went ape...t.....mainly because Steele could see the lights flashing and knew no harm could come to him....there wasn't time..

and nobody ever bought the fact he refereed for King fairly.....

A disgraceful official.........Poor old rosario nearly got killed by Chavez didn't have trouble letting Edwin lose his title and half his talent...

Mills Lane now there is a great referee..

He had integrity..

From the outset, then yes, Steele should be applauded for taking the compassionate route, seemingly for the right reasons.

However, it's Steele's lack of consistency on the matter, as well as his continued controversies whenever a fighter belonging to Don King was under his command, which leave me with one or two niggling doubts, no matter how small.

I appreciate that a terrible toll had been put on Taylor's body, but I don't think that automatically means that any stoppage is automatically justified. Joe Frazier won the 'Fight of the Century' in 1971 but it was he, rather than Ali, who then spent the following weeks, weak and suffering from internal bleeding and dehydration, in hospital recovering - almost slipping in to a coma at one point.

Moreover, Steele didn't seem so concerned about a fighter's health when waving Hearns, clearly out on his feet and with a head seriously dazed, back in to action against Barkley when he was clearly headed to the proverbial slaughter house. He let Tyson get away with murder against Bruno first time out, too.

Steele justified his actions in the Hearns-Barkley bout by bringing out the old chestnut of "a champion deserves the benefit of the doubt." Which begs the question - did he really give Taylor every chance? He asked him if he was ok once, to which Taylor may have nodded (the shaky camera work makes it a bit of a grey area). But upon asking him a second time he gave him absolutely no time in which to answer, seemingly being very keen to call the fight off. I can't understand why he asked the question again if he was going to give Taylor basically no time to respond. True, he's not a timekeeper, but given that Taylor was stood right in front of the flashing lights on the ring posts which denoted that there were ten seconds or less remaining in the round, I find it impossible to fathom that Steele would have had absolutely no idea at all how close to the end of the fight it was, as he later claimed.

As I said, from the outset Steele did the right thing, and there's really no great basis on which to criticise his actions. But for me, and I suspect one or two others, some very small doubts will always remain.

Absolutely..unfortunately az is taking the stoppage on face value......

Watch Tyson-Bruno 1 and tell me if he is a great ref..

Hearns was the house fighter that night too...chris!

A champ deserves every chance...........

Taylor was the IBF champ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're just being provocative..

He was a poor ref..hence resistance at his HOF admittance....

Nobody of above average intelligence bought the stoppage..HBo and all the magazines went ape...t.....mainly because Steele could see the lights flashing and knew no harm could come to him....there wasn't time..

and nobody ever bought the fact he refereed for King fairly.....

A disgraceful official.........Poor old rosario nearly got killed by Chavez didn't have trouble letting Edwin lose his title and half his talent...

Mills Lane now there is a great referee..

He had integrity..

Whatever Truss. I put my opinion on the OP and you call me provocative. Perhaps it is you being provocative by disagreeing.

Chris

Had this happened in anther round, would the stoppage be justified?

If it happened in another round he wouldn't have stopped it!!

He saw the red lights and panicked......

Sure King was grateful...

Why was there such uproar at his hof status??? and why does he get booed when introduced at an arena!!

1. Hearns v Barkley...disgrace..
2. Hagler v Hearns disgrace..fancy trying to get Hagler stopped on cuts!! The doctor f""""ed him off before Hagler got there.
3. Rosario was finshed after Chavez...only left with a punch.
4. Tyson v Bruno!!!!!

Great ref...you're crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Super D Boon wrote:In praise of Richard Steele. Great decision.

---------------

It was a fair decision given that Taylor was unresponsive when Steele asked him if he was okay. Taylor was completely out of it and at that point , the fact there was but two seconds left in the fight is irrelevant as Steele had to assess whether Taylor was fit to continue and clearly he wasn't.

What bugs me more about the fight is the way in which Taylor could not resist engaging in a slug fest every so often with Chavez. Had he have just boxed throughout he would have taken the fight and no doubt not have had the prime beaten out of him.

This fight irks me and is one of the reasons I don't rate Chavez half as much as a lot of other people. Chavez had trouble with slick boxers and Taylor had all the tools to beat him comfortbaly but he couldn't help succumbiong to his pride and engaing in a war every so often.

All in all Taylor has no-one to blame but himself for this loss.

Hmmm, how blaming about Lou duva, the real villain of the piece. Telling his guy at the end if the 11th that he needed a big last round when it was pretty clear that he was well ahead and fading badly. Pr**k cost his man the fight and could have got him killed.

and could have got him killed!!! bollox......When you get nailed it's your fault..he got careless!!!

Didn't the Mexican judge score the fight for Chavez!!!

So he wasn't far wrong was he!!!!

azania wrote:Chris

Had this happened in anther round, would the stoppage be justified?

Hard to say, I think. As my post demonstrates, I'm neither unequivocally for or against Steele on this issue.

The crux of your argument seems to hinge on Taylor, beyond any doubt, being in no fit state to continue. To me, this is a matter of opinion and is entirely subjective, rather than fact. He was hurt, no question, but he was up at five / six and on relatively stable legs by the looks of things (and as a side note, common sense dictates that Steele should probably have asked him to take a couple of paces towards him, to see if he could stand without the support of the ropes in that corner).

Now if Steele's recent history before that fight is anything to go by (Hearns-Barkley being the stand out), him deeming Taylor unfit to continue does seem at odds with what he'd usually deem to be so, don't you think?

I'm yet to be entirely convinced that Steele gave Taylor every chance to prove he was able to fight on - at the very least, he didn't give him as much of a chance as he did others. Had Steele shown consistency throughout his officiating, then I'd have much fewer doubts. But to me, he only seemed to become a shining beacon of compassion when a Don King fighter was in a spot of bother (this, as well as the very contentious stoppage of Ruddock against Tyson not long after).

So all in all, I can't say that the stoppage would have been justified earlier in the round / fight or not. Steele doesn't deserve to be condemned hastily, but at the same time I think it's unrealistic to pretend, as some do, that there is no basis for doubt or nothing to be discussed on the matter.

The stoppage was entirely justified but the reasoning behind it has to be questioned, were it any other ref there would be far less controversy.

milkyboy wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:In praise of Richard Steele. Great decision.

---------------

It was a fair decision given that Taylor was unresponsive when Steele asked him if he was okay. Taylor was completely out of it and at that point , the fact there was but two seconds left in the fight is irrelevant as Steele had to assess whether Taylor was fit to continue and clearly he wasn't.

What bugs me more about the fight is the way in which Taylor could not resist engaging in a slug fest every so often with Chavez. Had he have just boxed throughout he would have taken the fight and no doubt not have had the prime beaten out of him.

This fight irks me and is one of the reasons I don't rate Chavez half as much as a lot of other people. Chavez had trouble with slick boxers and Taylor had all the tools to beat him comfortbaly but he couldn't help succumbiong to his pride and engaing in a war every so often.

All in all Taylor has no-one to blame but himself for this loss.

Hmmm, how blaming about Lou duva, the real villain of the piece. Telling his guy at the end if the 11th that he needed a big last round when it was pretty clear that he was well ahead and fading badly. Pr**k cost his man the fight and could have got him killed.

Fair enough paperbag but I meant it as Meldrick Taylor inclusively of his corner, his cutman, his agent, staff whatever but Meldrick Taylor. He should have known he was well ahead.

As for Duran at least he beat slicksters like Leonard (although again dragged him into his own fight) and Buchanan. With Chavez all his opponents were custom made for him and those that weren't gave him nightmares, inlcuding a relative 24-0-1 novice in Meldrick Taylor (who damn well should have sealed the deal in that fight!) completely robbed Whittaker and got owned by De La Hoya. He may be a great but I aint a big fan.

Super D Boon wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:In praise of Richard Steele. Great decision.

---------------

It was a fair decision given that Taylor was unresponsive when Steele asked him if he was okay. Taylor was completely out of it and at that point , the fact there was but two seconds left in the fight is irrelevant as Steele had to assess whether Taylor was fit to continue and clearly he wasn't.

What bugs me more about the fight is the way in which Taylor could not resist engaging in a slug fest every so often with Chavez. Had he have just boxed throughout he would have taken the fight and no doubt not have had the prime beaten out of him.

This fight irks me and is one of the reasons I don't rate Chavez half as much as a lot of other people. Chavez had trouble with slick boxers and Taylor had all the tools to beat him comfortbaly but he couldn't help succumbiong to his pride and engaing in a war every so often.

All in all Taylor has no-one to blame but himself for this loss.

Hmmm, how blaming about Lou duva, the real villain of the piece. Telling his guy at the end if the 11th that he needed a big last round when it was pretty clear that he was well ahead and fading badly. Pr**k cost his man the fight and could have got him killed.

Fair enough paperbag but I meant it as Meldrick Taylor inclusively of his corner, his cutman, his agent, staff whatever but Meldrick Taylor. He should have known he was well ahead.

As for Duran at least he beat slicksters like Leonard (although again dragged him into his own fight) and Buchanan. With Chavez all his opponents were custom made for him and those that weren't gave him nightmares, inlcuding a relative 24-0-1 novice in Meldrick Taylor (who damn well should have sealed the deal in that fight!) completely robbed Whittaker and got owned by De La Hoya. He may be a great but I aint a big fan.

I don't understand why Chavez gets criticized for his losses to DLH. Chavez was passed his best and was on the downside of his career.

Peak Chavez v peak DLH at 130lbs, 135lbs or 140lbs? I'd pick Chavez everytime. Only at 147lbs do I start to give DLH a chance.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:and could have got him killed!!! bollox......When you get nailed it's your fault..he got careless!!!

Didn't the Mexican judge score the fight for Chavez!!!

So he wasn't far wrong was he!!!!

i see your in truculent mood today trussy... has the lack of bait on that rival board left you spoiling for some action? I guess when there's only 4 posters and you've told them all to jog on, it must make life a little mundane. Anyway good to have you back fella. Again!

So you think it was good advice from duva? Taylor had shipped some punishment late in the fight and was hardly at his most lucid. Ultimately, yes the fighter takes responsibility, but reckon he got worn down more than he got careless. Worst advice given by a corner in a title fight... got be a truss top 10 thread in their somewhere?

milkyboy wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:and could have got him killed!!! bollox......When you get nailed it's your fault..he got careless!!!

Didn't the Mexican judge score the fight for Chavez!!!

So he wasn't far wrong was he!!!!

i see your in truculent mood today trussy... has the lack of bait on that rival board left you spoiling for some action? I guess when there's only 4 posters and you've told them all to jog on, it must make life a little mundane. Anyway good to have you back fella. Again!

So you think it was good advice from duva? Taylor had shipped some punishment late in the fight and was hardly at his most lucid. Ultimately, yes the fighter takes responsibility, but reckon he got worn down more than he got careless. Worst advice given by a corner in a title fight... got be a truss top 10 thread in their somewhere?

Duva should've been telling him to run like the wind, not fight Chavez's fight and engage in warfare.

Steele is either a fantastic actor, or, genuinly has a poor constitution when it comes to observing of pain.

He seems really concerned when looking in the eyes of a hurt fighter. I'm not sure if that level of concern can be feigned.

I like to think of Steele's bad decisions as the product of, a bias boxing fan working as a referee, rather than a corrupt low life working out of King's pocket.

Naive, perhaps.

Just shows that the pressure can get to anyone I suppose, even a patriarchal figure of the sport like Duva. It was certainly a risky call, asking Taylor to force the issue in the twelfth.

That said, as Truss has mentioned one judge did somehow manage to have Chavez ahead after eleven rounds, so Duva's fears of skullduggery might not be totally unfounded. Lest we forget, another of his fighters (Whitaker) had been on the end of some blatant larceny at the hands of the WBC against another much-loved Mexican fighter in Ramirez just a couple of years before.

My guess is that Duva just panicked and let his misgivings regarding the WBC and Sulaiman get the better of him. That said, Taylor was nigh-on running on fumes at that stage in any case - even if he'd 'ran' so to speak, it's not impossible to imagine that Chavez could have pinned him down at some point.

Oh what might have been.

I have said it before but you cant trust Don King. This is very similar to the Lewis fight with McCall which King was involved in and once again yo have to ask yourself if its just a coincidence or if Don King has something to do with it....??

Gordy wrote:I have said it before but you cant trust Don King. This is very similar to the Lewis fight with McCall which King was involved in and once again yo have to ask yourself if its just a coincidence or if Don King has something to do with it....??

Give it a rest with the Lewis love in.

Careful, Gordy - delving any further in to this thread may require you to actually discuss fighters who aren't Lennox Lewis, Chris Eubank or Joe Calzaghe; I'm not sure you're quite ready for that just yet.

Gordy wrote:I have said it before but you cant trust Don King. This is very similar to the Lewis fight with McCall which King was involved in and once again yo have to ask yourself if its just a coincidence or if Don King has something to do with it....??

Jesus Christ Gordy, is there anything you can't segue Lennox Lewis into??!!

The situation is very like what happened to Lennox Lewis against McCall. In both fights the ref is very suspicious and when Don King is involved then you are right to be suspicious. King has been corrupting boxing for ever.

Got to say to shoehorn him into a thread on a lightwelter weight fight from nearly 20 years ago is no mean feat. I suggest we get D4 back and see if he can match him with finding an excuse to work Manny into a thread. It would truly be our version of Ali Frazier 1

Except Taylor didn't get pancaked.....and got past the second round.....and was fighting an elite fighter not a glorified journeyman.......

Certainly there's something to be questioned about the inconsistencies of Steele's explanations, and his other decisions as a referee, with regards to the Taylor stoppage. But, looking at the stoppage in isolation: how can anyone argue with any real vehemence either way? To my mind it's utterly fair to say that Taylor did not respond well at all to Steele's questions...and it had been a grueling fight....and his health was in danger. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind if Steele had let it go those extra few seconds. It's a really, really tough call. I think either decision is valid.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Except Taylor didn't get pancaked.....and got past the second round.....and was fighting an elite fighter not a glorified journeyman.......

And didn't use the ref to prop himself up like a drunk does on a bar.

Apart from those massive differences the situations are exactly the same.

Gordy wrote:The situation is very like what happened to Lennox Lewis against McCall. In both fights the ref is very suspicious and when Don King is involved then you are right to be suspicious. King has been corrupting boxing for ever.

Yes....a very similar situation....both fights involved guys with gloves.....who were punching each other.......striking similarities.

Gordy wrote:I have said it before

I suspect you could prefix all your posts with this Gordy.

At the time i thought the stoppage was poor, as time goes on i've softened on it and I'm more with boxthis/Chris.. I think in isolation you can see an argument both ways for the stoppage. However, the fact it was kings house boxer and steele's lack of consistency does just leave that whiff, though.

Fair point re duva being on the end of Whittaker Ramirez, Chris, I guess he had good reason to be fearful of his fighter getting shafted... He still ought to be able to look at his fighter.. Who had headed to the wrong corner after the 11th... and figured that maybe telling him he needed a big last round was the kind of advice he could have done without.

Big last round = Drop your hands and get decked....in this Country does it!!

Not in America it doesn't..

Expecting big things from you Brits in the next ten years now I've pointed that out!!!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Big last round = Drop your hands and get decked....in this Country does it!!

Not in America it doesn't..

Expecting big things from you Brits in the next ten years now I've pointed that out!!!!

with the canvas backed reputation of our fighters thats what it usually means over here mate! I'm sure it will all change now though.

just watched the stoppage again, having not seen if for a while... i'm erring back to it being dodgy. He might have asked him twice if he was ok, but he didnt really wait for an answer.

It was the speed he asked him!!! Like he knew he was running out of time!!

Excuse.....the sarcasm.....I'm having a nervous breakdown!!

No. He gave him loads of time. Too much time to be honest.

We'll disagree on that.....

Is one fight your criteria for labelling greatness????

Douglas great too.. for beating Tyson??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:We'll disagree on that.....

Is one fight your criteria for labelling greatness????

Douglas great too.. for beating Tyson??

What are you blabbering on about now?

You called him a great referee dumbass....

You want me to spell it out!!!

You spend a lot of time on here for a married man with a family don't you..

Your posting history suggests you are an amazing man..

Read the link I provided you buffoon.

Keep m family out of this please. Show some respect jerk.

you may agree with his decision regarding this particular fight, thats your call, but it doesnt make him a great ref. hes a hypocrite and a cheat.

p.s look at me, look at me

Lance wrote:you may agree with his decision regarding this particular fight, thats your call, but it doesnt make him a great ref. hes a hypocrite and a cheat.

p.s look at me, look at me

Many pundits call him a great ref. Any evidence that he is a cheat or are you guessing?

Why do I want to look at a skank for?

azania wrote:

Lance wrote:you may agree with his decision regarding this particular fight, thats your call, but it doesnt make him a great ref. hes a hypocrite and a cheat.

p.s look at me, look at me

Many pundits call him a great ref. Any evidence that he is a cheat or are you guessing?

Why do I want to look at a skank for?

i dont know, maybe its your best chance?

At what?

rowley wrote:If you lads have had some sort of sbets between you on who can get banned first tonight let me know the odds because you're close to getting a winner.

ha ha

I've failed on the prediction threads, so perhaps I may win this bet.