Froch vs Mack

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/174467-mack-getting-ready-for-froch

Has this been posted yet? Froch looks to have struggled to find an opponent for his next clash, but they've settled on Yusaf Mack. I suppose Froch deserves a little step down in quality after his recent run. Mack is a very decent fighter, but he's struggled with top level guys. Was KO'd by Andrade once upon a time, and got KO'd by Tavoris Cloud - who I don't think is top tier.

Should make for a decent scrap and a decent win for Froch.

Thoughts?

Pretty disappointed if its true, mind you after Bute no one really wants to fight him except Ward who is tied up.

Think he needs this for a nice fight at home, then he's going to have to accept he'll have to trouble for any other good names (e.g. Pavlik or, more annoyingly, Kessler).

Yep, I think it's fair enough for him to take someone like Mack after the run he's had. I'd like to see him in against a good SMW or LHW next though. Be happy to see him facing Kessler, Pavlik, Pascal, Cloud, Cleverly. As a step down of an opponent Mack is pretty high quality I'd say.

I'd worry about him stepping up to LHW as he's not a big SMW, walking around at not much more than fight weight so he isn't boiling down to make 168. Plus, his chin carries him a little at SMW and I'd be worried it wouldn't be so successful against LHW bangers so he could tarnish his otherwise pretty stellar record.

It's official. Yusf Mack. Nice and easy defence. Let's hope his next one is Kessler or Bute

Im not a fan of Froch. He is dull as dishwater and seems to think he is the bees knees despite being an average boxer. Claiming to be better than Eubank, Benn and Calzaghe on Sky Sports when all three of them would have knocked him out is laughable even for Sky Sports.

I very much doubt that any of those 3 would knock Froch out. For me, he has a hell of a fight with both Eubank and Benn. Calzaghe UDs him 9 times out of 10 I think, but it wouldn't be easy. I don't know how anyone can't be a fan of Froch. He's taken on a tremendous run of fights and most of them have been very entertaining. I think there's a tendency for people to say he's average skills-wise because he's looks a bit awkward and because he tends to use his chin as a defense mechanism. But, he's been in with and beaten top guys time and time again. Top boxers, by nature, have to be confident in their abilities, and I don't think it's at all laughable or unfair for Froch to think he'd challenge the guys you mentioned. Certainly there's boxers that have made more outlandish claims.

Gordy wrote:Im not a fan of Froch. He is dull as dishwater and seems to think he is the bees knees despite being an average boxer. Claiming to be better than Eubank, Benn and Calzaghe on Sky Sports when all three of them would have knocked him out is laughable even for Sky Sports.

Your boxing knowledge really is laughable Gordy.

Boring personality maybe (but then so is/was JC) but one of the most exciting swashbuckling fighters to come from these shores in a decade or more!

JC might take a comfortable 4 round UD but wouldn't stand a chance of knocking Froch out and Benn isn't close to being in Froch's league so they probably wouldn't even fight these days.

Claiming to be better than Eubank, Benn and Calzaghe on Sky Sports when all three of them would have knocked him out is laughable even for Sky Sports.

Maybe Benn would but not the other 2.

Froch would not last 2 rounds with Benn. Benn was a fearsome puncher and Froch has a wide open defence. He would be out cold sharpish. Eubank and Calzaghe were not as powerful punchers but would have knocked Froch out late having totally outclassed him. Froch is massively overrated. Hes not in the same league as those other guys.

Gordy is the ex boyfriend of Rachel Cordingley.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Gordy is the ex boyfriend of Rachel Cordingley.

Gordy wrote:Froch would not last 2 rounds with Benn. Benn was a fearsome puncher and Froch has a wide open defence. He would be out cold sharpish. Eubank and Calzaghe were not as powerful punchers but would have knocked Froch out late having totally outclassed him. Froch is massively overrated. Hes not in the same league as those other guys.

Benn was of a similar ability/class to Bute and look what happened to him.

You're also gleefully disregarding Froch's chin being made of granite and having taken as hefty a punch as Benn could dish out - his defence is wide-open for a reason, it doesn't matter if he gets tagged!

Gordy wrote:Froch would not last 2 rounds with Benn. Benn was a fearsome puncher and Froch has a wide open defence. He would be out cold sharpish. Eubank and Calzaghe were not as powerful punchers but would have knocked Froch out late having totally outclassed him. Froch is massively overrated. Hes not in the same league as those other guys.

I can't believe you got a couple of biters with this, ha

Shows how overrated Froch is that people basically think he cant be knocked out. If Sky build him up as some kind of unbeatable monster so be it but if he was foolish enough to think Benn could not knock him out then Im being generous giving him two rounds. He is just not in the same league as Calzaghe, Eubank and Benn. They were top fighters. Froch is average. Makes me laugh really, not long ago people were swallowing the same hype about Khan. They never learn!

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Gordy wrote:Froch would not last 2 rounds with Benn. Benn was a fearsome puncher and Froch has a wide open defence. He would be out cold sharpish. Eubank and Calzaghe were not as powerful punchers but would have knocked Froch out late having totally outclassed him. Froch is massively overrated. Hes not in the same league as those other guys.

I can't believe you got a couple of biters with this, ha

Not from me Seany, I have endured Ralphy’s Richie Woodhall to knock out Benn inside two rounds. When it comes to domestic supermiddle weight based wummery I have been in the presence of true greatness.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Gordy wrote:Froch would not last 2 rounds with Benn. Benn was a fearsome puncher and Froch has a wide open defence. He would be out cold sharpish. Eubank and Calzaghe were not as powerful punchers but would have knocked Froch out late having totally outclassed him. Froch is massively overrated. Hes not in the same league as those other guys.

I can't believe you got a couple of biters with this, ha

I am slightly disappointed in myself, however I like the fact Gordy is now engaging rather than ignoring so out of respect I am offering some debate in return rather than just being rude.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Gordy wrote:Froch would not last 2 rounds with Benn. Benn was a fearsome puncher and Froch has a wide open defence. He would be out cold sharpish. Eubank and Calzaghe were not as powerful punchers but would have knocked Froch out late having totally outclassed him. Froch is massively overrated. Hes not in the same league as those other guys.

I can't believe you got a couple of biters with this, ha

I am slightly disappointed in myself, however I like the fact Gordy is now engaging rather than ignoring so out of respect I am offering some debate in return rather than just being rude.

Ha, you are too kind buddy. You're response is of course measured and correct, and as a mod, I respect your restraint

Gordy wrote:Shows how overrated Froch is that people basically think he cant be knocked out. If Sky build him up as some kind of unbeatable monster so be it but if he was foolish enough to think Benn could not knock him out then Im being generous giving him two rounds. He is just not in the same league as Calzaghe, Eubank and Benn. They were top fighters. Froch is average. Makes me laugh really, not long ago people were swallowing the same hype about Khan. They never learn!

If you added Benn and Eubank's records together you might get something equal to Froch's. JC is still ahead of him for me, the Kessler results and JC's LHW exploits being the differentiator for me, but Eubank and Benn are, if anything, the real hype jobs in a kind of backwards looking misty-eyed rose-tinted spectacles way.

rowley wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Gordy wrote:Froch would not last 2 rounds with Benn. Benn was a fearsome puncher and Froch has a wide open defence. He would be out cold sharpish. Eubank and Calzaghe were not as powerful punchers but would have knocked Froch out late having totally outclassed him. Froch is massively overrated. Hes not in the same league as those other guys.

I can't believe you got a couple of biters with this, ha

Not from me Seany, I have endured Ralphy’s Richie Woodhall to knock out Benn inside two rounds. When it comes to domestic supermiddle weight based wummery I have been in the presence of true greatness.

hahaha, brilliant

No fooling me old mate Rowley

alma wrote:

Gordy wrote:Shows how overrated Froch is that people basically think he cant be knocked out. If Sky build him up as some kind of unbeatable monster so be it but if he was foolish enough to think Benn could not knock him out then Im being generous giving him two rounds. He is just not in the same league as Calzaghe, Eubank and Benn. They were top fighters. Froch is average. Makes me laugh really, not long ago people were swallowing the same hype about Khan. They never learn!

Remind me how many fights Froch has had on Sky, and compare that to Eubank's bum of the month club from 1990 onwards..........

Assume those are rhetorical questions Alma? We all know Gordy doesn't ACTUALLY know anything about boxing he just comes up with random statements, e.g. not knowing Tyson's prime/peak was about 15 years before he fought Lennox Lewis.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Gordy wrote:Shows how overrated Froch is that people basically think he cant be knocked out. If Sky build him up as some kind of unbeatable monster so be it but if he was foolish enough to think Benn could not knock him out then Im being generous giving him two rounds. He is just not in the same league as Calzaghe, Eubank and Benn. They were top fighters. Froch is average. Makes me laugh really, not long ago people were swallowing the same hype about Khan. They never learn!

If you added Benn and Eubank's records together you might get something equal to Froch's. JC is still ahead of him for me, the Kessler results and JC's LHW exploits being the differentiator for me, but Eubank and Benn are, if anything, the real hype jobs in a kind of backwards looking misty-eyed rose-tinted spectacles way.

Rubbish. Benn's win over McClellan is better than anything Froch has done and refering to Benn as a similar level to Bute is also something of a joke. Benn would of course have just stood there like a deer in the headlights (a al Bute) and just accepted a beating?

Anyway, Eubank I agree with. Can never understand the rose tinted specs with him. Had the chance to be a great boxer but was happy making millions fighting dross. I never can understand the affection he now gets given he openly admitted he wanted no part of the Americans. Calzaghe rightly gets stick for fighting too many cans but Eubank 20 years later gets accepted for it.

I like Froch. Exciting boxer. Willing and eager to fight the best which is refreshing to see and to watch. But, JC, Eubank, Benn, Watson and Collins all beat him. He has the best chance with benn because of Nigel's chin issues.

JC has too much speed and Froch would have to KO him and that wont happen. Eubank would keep him on the outside. Watson was too skilled in every department. Benn would be a tear up and I'd back Benn to outpoint him. Given Froch's lack of defense it wouldn't surprise me if Benn knocked him out. Collins would be a fight for the ages. Too come forward fighters with leaky defences but amazing chins. Collins had greater work-rate and better close up fighting skills which would be the difference maker.

All would be exciting fights except for Eubank who lets face it was very boring. His opponents made the fights.

I think Froch, Benn, Eubank, Collins is an excellent and very close group for a round robin tournament.

I'd be confident of Froch beating Eubank and Collins, and almost certain that he'd beat Benn if we're talking about 168 lb.

Keeping people on the outside was hardly Eubank's USP, was it Az? That's not how he beat Benn, or Watson for that matter. I can see Froch struggling early on with Eubank but eventually just pushing him back, outworking him and taking a scrappy decision.

I feel almost certain that Froch would stop Benn. Froch's chin, at 168 lb, is more than strong enough to withstand a Benn onslaught (Benn was never the same puncher at Super-Middle as he had been at Middle) and, if it's a battle of stamina and conditioning, there's no way Nigel can outlast Carl, either.

Collins and Froch share similarities, insofar as they both have remarkable chins and love to press the fight, but for me Collins was about as raw as they come at world title level. Froch has everything that Collins does, only that little bit more in all areas.

But still, I can fathom no way for Carl to even dream of beating Calzaghe.

88Chris05 wrote:I'd be confident of Froch beating Eubank and Collins, and almost certain that he'd beat Benn if we're talking about 168 lb.

Keeping people on the outside was hardly Eubank's USP, was it Az? That's not how he beat Benn, or Watson for that matter. I can see Froch struggling early on with Eubank but eventually just pushing him back, outworking him and taking a scrappy decision.

I feel almost certain that Froch would stop Benn. Froch's chin, at 168 lb, is more than strong enough to withstand a Benn onslaught (Benn was never the same puncher at Super-Middle as he had been at Middle) and, if it's a battle of stamina and conditioning, there's no way Nigel can outlast Carl, either.

Collins and Froch share similarities, insofar as they both have remarkable chins and love to press the fight, but for me Collins was about as raw as they come at world title level. Froch has everything that Collins does, only that little bit more in all areas.

But still, I can fathom no way for Carl to even dream of beating Calzaghe.

Collins, Watson and Benn (2) all pressed Eubank and fought him at very close range. Froch likes to fight in the pocket so to speak. He doesn't throw short hooks. Instead he throws wide shots. Against Eubank that would be a mistake as Eubank's straight rights will find the target with alarming regularity.

Simply do not give Eubank space to work. Froch will do that.

Eubank's USP was his awkwardness and straight punches. Plus he had the sturdiest chin I have ever seen from a british boxer.

As for Benn, sorry, can't see Benn losing. He does have very good and disciplined boxing skills when he chooses to use it. See his warton fight. Benn would build up an unassailable lead in the 10th and will hold on to the end. As for a KO, its possible either way but I'm more likely to see Benn winning via that route than the other way (which is the only way Froch would win).

Both fair enough analysis from Chris and Az I think. But, I think it's fair to say that it's not laughable for Froch to be discussed in that company as a genuine challenge.

Super D Boon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Gordy wrote:Shows how overrated Froch is that people basically think he cant be knocked out. If Sky build him up as some kind of unbeatable monster so be it but if he was foolish enough to think Benn could not knock him out then Im being generous giving him two rounds. He is just not in the same league as Calzaghe, Eubank and Benn. They were top fighters. Froch is average. Makes me laugh really, not long ago people were swallowing the same hype about Khan. They never learn!

If you added Benn and Eubank's records together you might get something equal to Froch's. JC is still ahead of him for me, the Kessler results and JC's LHW exploits being the differentiator for me, but Eubank and Benn are, if anything, the real hype jobs in a kind of backwards looking misty-eyed rose-tinted spectacles way.

Rubbish. Benn's win over McClellan is better than anything Froch has done and refering to Benn as a similar level to Bute is also something of a joke. Benn would of course have just stood there like a deer in the headlights (a al Bute) and just accepted a beating?

Probably, but one swallow doesn't make a summer and I don't think one stand-out result elevates his entire record to greatness.

Holding a record of 4 losses 1 draw against arguably the best boxers on his CV (Collins, Watson, Eubank) other than G-Man is not testament to a top level fighter.

I hope this is not one of those banana skin fights, the type where everyone including Froch look beyond Mack at the bigger fights only to become unstuck.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Gordy wrote:Shows how overrated Froch is that people basically think he cant be knocked out. If Sky build him up as some kind of unbeatable monster so be it but if he was foolish enough to think Benn could not knock him out then Im being generous giving him two rounds. He is just not in the same league as Calzaghe, Eubank and Benn. They were top fighters. Froch is average. Makes me laugh really, not long ago people were swallowing the same hype about Khan. They never learn!

If you added Benn and Eubank's records together you might get something equal to Froch's. JC is still ahead of him for me, the Kessler results and JC's LHW exploits being the differentiator for me, but Eubank and Benn are, if anything, the real hype jobs in a kind of backwards looking misty-eyed rose-tinted spectacles way.

Rubbish. Benn's win over McClellan is better than anything Froch has done and refering to Benn as a similar level to Bute is also something of a joke. Benn would of course have just stood there like a deer in the headlights (a al Bute) and just accepted a beating?

Probably, but one swallow doesn't make a summer and I don't think one stand-out result elevates his entire record to greatness.

Holding a record of 4 losses 1 draw against arguably the best boxers on his CV (Collins, Watson, Eubank) other than G-Man is not testament to a top level fighter.

It worked for Foreman.

We shouldn't look at it any differently because of suspiscion. He didn't look too bad in the first 4 rounds.

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Gordy wrote:Shows how overrated Froch is that people basically think he cant be knocked out. If Sky build him up as some kind of unbeatable monster so be it but if he was foolish enough to think Benn could not knock him out then Im being generous giving him two rounds. He is just not in the same league as Calzaghe, Eubank and Benn. They were top fighters. Froch is average. Makes me laugh really, not long ago people were swallowing the same hype about Khan. They never learn!

If you added Benn and Eubank's records together you might get something equal to Froch's. JC is still ahead of him for me, the Kessler results and JC's LHW exploits being the differentiator for me, but Eubank and Benn are, if anything, the real hype jobs in a kind of backwards looking misty-eyed rose-tinted spectacles way.

Rubbish. Benn's win over McClellan is better than anything Froch has done and refering to Benn as a similar level to Bute is also something of a joke. Benn would of course have just stood there like a deer in the headlights (a al Bute) and just accepted a beating?

Probably, but one swallow doesn't make a summer and I don't think one stand-out result elevates his entire record to greatness.

Holding a record of 4 losses 1 draw against arguably the best boxers on his CV (Collins, Watson, Eubank) other than G-Man is not testament to a top level fighter.

It worked for Foreman.

Thought about mentioning Foreman on Chris' untouchables thread, find it hard to warm to him as a great (as in top5 sense).

It worked for LaMotta (and a Hollywood movie), Frazier and many more boxers. Bottom line is GMan was better than all Froch's victories.

With Abrahams beating Steiglitz at the weekend and George Groves in line to fight the winner, wouldn't it be nice if Groves could beat AA and secure a nice all British unificaton fight with Froch?

Could you see Groves (at this stage) beating AA?

I'd fancy his chances more against Steiglitz.

alma wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Gordy wrote:Shows how overrated Froch is that people basically think he cant be knocked out. If Sky build him up as some kind of unbeatable monster so be it but if he was foolish enough to think Benn could not knock him out then Im being generous giving him two rounds. He is just not in the same league as Calzaghe, Eubank and Benn. They were top fighters. Froch is average. Makes me laugh really, not long ago people were swallowing the same hype about Khan. They never learn!

If you added Benn and Eubank's records together you might get something equal to Froch's. JC is still ahead of him for me, the Kessler results and JC's LHW exploits being the differentiator for me, but Eubank and Benn are, if anything, the real hype jobs in a kind of backwards looking misty-eyed rose-tinted spectacles way.

Rubbish. Benn's win over McClellan is better than anything Froch has done and refering to Benn as a similar level to Bute is also something of a joke. Benn would of course have just stood there like a deer in the headlights (a al Bute) and just accepted a beating?

Anyway, Eubank I agree with. Can never understand the rose tinted specs with him. Had the chance to be a great boxer but was happy making millions fighting dross. I never can understand the affection he now gets given he openly admitted he wanted no part of the Americans. Calzaghe rightly gets stick for fighting too many cans but Eubank 20 years later gets accepted for it.

On paper Benn's win is great, but when there's suspicions about McClellan's health even before the fight, we have to look at this fight from a slightly different angle.

It was still a great win and I think McClellan was an accident waiting to happen. I don;t know how many times I've watched that fight but what strikes me is McClellan's shock in the second round to find Benn hurling left hooks at him after withstanding his vicious barrage in the first. The amount of painful left hooks Benn seemed to catch McClellan with I think even if he arrived in 100% health he could have still been put in his eventual state by taking so many heavy hits. Probably the most brutal fight I've ever seen.

Super D Boon wrote:

alma wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Gordy wrote:Shows how overrated Froch is that people basically think he cant be knocked out. If Sky build him up as some kind of unbeatable monster so be it but if he was foolish enough to think Benn could not knock him out then Im being generous giving him two rounds. He is just not in the same league as Calzaghe, Eubank and Benn. They were top fighters. Froch is average. Makes me laugh really, not long ago people were swallowing the same hype about Khan. They never learn!

If you added Benn and Eubank's records together you might get something equal to Froch's. JC is still ahead of him for me, the Kessler results and JC's LHW exploits being the differentiator for me, but Eubank and Benn are, if anything, the real hype jobs in a kind of backwards looking misty-eyed rose-tinted spectacles way.

Rubbish. Benn's win over McClellan is better than anything Froch has done and refering to Benn as a similar level to Bute is also something of a joke. Benn would of course have just stood there like a deer in the headlights (a al Bute) and just accepted a beating?

Anyway, Eubank I agree with. Can never understand the rose tinted specs with him. Had the chance to be a great boxer but was happy making millions fighting dross. I never can understand the affection he now gets given he openly admitted he wanted no part of the Americans. Calzaghe rightly gets stick for fighting too many cans but Eubank 20 years later gets accepted for it.

On paper Benn's win is great, but when there's suspicions about McClellan's health even before the fight, we have to look at this fight from a slightly different angle.

It was still a great win and I think McClellan was an accident waiting to happen. I don;t know how many times I've watched that fight but what strikes me is McClellan's shock in the second round to find Benn hurling left hooks at him after withstanding his vicious barrage in the first. The amount of painful left hooks Benn seemed to catch McClellan with I think even if he arrived in 100% health he could have still been put in his eventual state by taking so many heavy hits. Probably the most brutal fight I've ever seen.

Spot on! People are having a laugh if they think Froch with his wide open defence would be abe to withstand that kind of power. It would not be close.

I'd say that Benn's defence is far more open than Froch - he's been decked and even stopped by lesser punchers than Carl. Does anyone here (with a brain, so not you, Gordy) think that the likes of Watson or Eubank could have stopped Froch?

Benn showed remarkable courage and tenacity against McClellan, but I'm not convinced that, fighting in such a way, he'd have still been around in the tenth round to secure the victory against Froch, who is supremely strong and robust at Super-Middleweight.

Besides, even if that weren't the case, the McClellan win is basically the only entity on Benn's record which suggests he'd beat Froch, whereas there are three or four performances of Froch's to suggest that he'd get the better of Nigel, in my opinion.

IMO Eubank would be the tougher fight for Froch. Anyone who comes straight forward is in for a long night (or maybe short night) v the Cobra, Benn and Collins fit that bill. I think only Eubank would have the cunning to exploit Froch's defensive frailties

Absolutely agree. Benn and Froch were about as open defensively as each other. No doubting both their hearts, although Froch is far more robust and resilient at 168. Benn is a little bit more athletic and speedy with his punches I'd say. I just can't see how anyone could say Benn would blast him out....unless, of course, you were wearing a pair of rose-tinted Gordy specs that immediately make you see the Benn/Eubank era as some sort of age of kings in the boxing timeline.

The question is does Froch hit as hard as prime McClellan? I could see Benn taking what Froch had to dish out and giving Froch's chin a solid test in return. If both could fight prime vs prime my expectation would be a bruising and bloody 12-rounder the decision of which could go either way or possibly a late Benn stoppage.

As for Mack, all I'll say is at least Froch doesn't fight this type of opponent time after time and try passing him off as Ali.

I don't think Froch needs to hit as hard as McClellan to stop Benn, it would be a very different fight where Froch wouldn't so much as flinch let alone be rocked like GMAN was who i've always thought of as being massively over rated. Wouldn't really say he was much better than the likes of Pascal or Taylor and certainly of lesser ability than Kessler and Ward, his whole reputation was built on taking the decidely weak chinned Jackson out early.

I see Froch struggling with Eubank and losing comfortably to Calzaghe but not Collins, Watson or Benn.