Out of competition Testing - 2011

First topic message reminder :


Anyone know where I can find the stats for out of competition testing 2011?

The 2010 stats makes interesting readings.

comparing how many times the top athletes and not so top athletes from the big nations have been tested makes interesting reading.

See the link at: http://www.iaaf.org/antidoping/statistics/index.html

Richard Pound former WADA official states 'that the Jamaican athletes often cannot be found for testing'

WHAT AN IDIOT.

A simply search of database of the World Anti-Doping Agency which details information of all tests and missed tests does not support Pound’s allegation.

A simply search of the IAAF website shows that Jamaican athletes are tested out of competition more often that athletes from other top countries.

I know you gotta love it!

and they're off again

I guess in the off-season there's not much else to do. now where were we?

This is gonna get Biblical

Seems like JA sprinters are tested very often. But as has been mentioned on another thread, the IAAF are corrupt and working with JA to freely juice up.

All I've been asking for is some credible evidence or even decent circumstantial evidence.

azania wrote:Seems like JA sprinters are tested very often. But as has been mentioned on another thread, the IAAF are corrupt and working with JA to freely juice up.

All I've been asking for is some credible evidence or even decent circumstantial evidence.

What constitutes "decent circumstantial evidence"? Is it the kind of evidence that allows you to change the goal posts when it comes to Flo Jo, who incidentally never failed a drugs test and was never proven to be dirty?

The circumstantial evidence surrounding FloJo, Greene, Bolden etc. Something we can get our teeth into. Not "I don't like his muscles" or "he runs too fast" or "how can a tiny island produce so many fast runners".

azania wrote:The circumstantial evidence surrounding FloJo, Greene, Bolden etc. Something we can get our teeth into. Not "I don't like his muscles" or "he runs too fast" or "how can a tiny island produce so many fast runners".

Bolden? I've heard plenty on the other two but this "circumstantial evidence" business is nonsense and you know it. Changing goal posts to suit your argument.

What exaclty can we get our teeth into with Flo Jo - She improved fast, built up and gained a deeper voice.

Green - Was caught handling PEDs but said it wasn't for him.

Bolden?

Anyway two of them I'm not aware failed any drugs tests.

We can get our teeth into two world leading experts on doping and anti-doping casting aspertions on the Jamaicans. Carl Lewis' continuing doubts about the Jamaicans, the ridiculous improvement of Bolt in the 100m, Blake in the 200m. Blake's failed drugs test. Steve Mullings (life ban athlete), Ray Stewart (life ban coaching), Sheri Ann Brookes, Merlene Ottey failing drugs tests, the fact Jamaica only recently brought in OOC testing to any kind of standard etc. Plenty to chomp over.

They brought in strict drug testing in 2008. The one guy who was on steroids (not cough medicine but steroids) was trained in USA. As for Blake's improvement, he trained hard and improved. Johnson improved from a 19.6 runner over 200m to a 19.32 in one year. Drugs or just running the near perfect race?

Where did conte get his evidence from? He mentioned 70%. Guessing again and trying to be legit?

Anyway, this branch has been killed off sadly.

Jamaica didn't bring in 'strict drug testing' in 2008. Why just make things up?

Was it earlier?

In 2008, the only testing carried out by Jamaican authorities was at the national championships. Zero OOC testing or testing at other meetings.

They had to rely on the IAAF to come along and do the OOC (and reap the benefits of having a nice pre-warning for the 'random' testing.)

As of today, the IAAF (and their friendly pre-warnings) still carry out the vast majority of OOC in Jamaica.

(In fact, I make a mistake, Jamaica didn't even bring in in-competition testing at the trials until 2009, when they busted those 5 guys.)

JADCO was given the green light and seal of approval by the IAAF in 2008 was it not?

Are you accusing JADCO and IAAF of being corrupt?

As for the 5 guys, what happened to them?

JADCO was only inaugurated as an authority to carry out testing in 2008. The 'green light and seal of approval' was simply an indication that they were ready to proceed with some sort of testing. It wasn't the IAAF saying that this was a fully compliant and self-serving anti-doping agency like we see in a lot of other nations.

The IAAF still carried out the vast majority of the testing and that means that Jamaican athletes are not subject to the same element of surprise that a lot of other athletes around the world are, even now.

To me, JADCO seems like quite an honest organisation, but has very limited power to do anything. The IAAF, on the other hand, has to look after its cash cows and will do so by any means necessary.

Some sort of testing? You're funny.

How many JA based sprinters have been busted for steroids? What happened to the JA sprinter who was found to be doping? Caught by JADCO I'll add.

What's so funny about 'some sort of testing'?

The only testing JADCO did on Jamaican athletes in 2009 was at the national trials. This was sufficient for the IAAF as they did the rest.

I have no issues with JADCO in terms of the validity of the testing. It's just that they don't do very much. The fact that they do catch so many (relatively speaking) speaks volumes given the minute number of tests they do in a year.

The whole 'Jamaican based' angle that you seem to have a bit of fun with doesn't really back you up too much. Surely that just goes to prove that these guys lose their protection once they leave the island. Probably why Bobby-Gaye Sarms is back under the protective wing of Mills and Bolt.

What's funny? Your continued attempts to cast doubts on JA sprinters. Had they been British, middle class, they would be clean until proven otherwise. But they are 3rd worlders, so the opposite judgement is in effect. They have to prove their innocence. As you know you are asking for the impossible, so you allude and insinuate their guilt. You rubbish all the testing they have been put through. The world governing body has given their national testing authority a green light but like a poor man's Inspector Clueless, you persist.

Fact is not one has tested positive for steroids. Gaye is back home not to hide from the testers as you are alluding to, but because he gets better training and better competition. Having the world's fastest man does actually help.

But only a coward would ask an innocent person to prove their innocence. Its up to you to show some evidence of their guilt. All you have and have shown are gossip columns and Dear Diedrie type comments.

azania wrote:
Fact is not one has tested positive for steroids. Sarms is back home not to hide from the testers as you are alluding to, but because he gets better training and better competition. Having the world's fastest man does actually help.

No further words needed. This is classic.

Yep. Rely on gossip as fact and provide gossip as evidence. Where is the EVIDENCE? Even circumstantial ones? Zip, nada, but bucket loads of bitterness

It's even more funny that you don't even know what you said.

At least I now have conclusive proof of exactly what I'm dealing with here.

Evidence?

azania wrote:Evidence?

You're gonna make me ask you about the evidence on Flo Jo aren't you?

djlovesyou wrote:What's so funny about 'some sort of testing'?

The only testing JADCO did on Jamaican athletes in 2009 was at the national trials. This was sufficient for the IAAF as they did the rest.

I have no issues with JADCO in terms of the validity of the testing. It's just that they don't do very much. The fact that they do catch so many (relatively speaking) speaks volumes given the minute number of tests they do in a year.
The whole 'Jamaican based' angle that you seem to have a bit of fun with doesn't really back you up too much. Surely that just goes to prove that these guys lose their protection once they leave the island. Probably why Bobby-Gaye Sarms is back under the protective wing of Mills and Bolt.

Aw, didn't notice that he changed it.

Bobby-Gaye Sarms. He actually thought SHE was called Sarms.

I'd better be careful when I say Sketchy-Anne Braces. Some people might actually think that's someone's real name.

Thanks DJ - best giggle I've had in a while.

djlovesyou wrote:Aw, didn't notice that he changed it.

Bobby-Gaye Sarms. He actually thought SHE was called Sarms.

I'd better be careful when I say Sketchy-Anne Braces. Some people might actually think that's someone's real name.

Evidence?

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:Evidence?

You're gonna make me ask you about the evidence on Flo Jo aren't you?

Which I have given many times. But it seems some here prefer this branch to be like rather than debating a hot topic in which opinions are strong on either side.

azania wrote:
Fact is not one has tested positive for steroids. Sarms is back home not to hide from the testers as you are alluding to, but because he gets better training and better competition. Having the world's fastest man does actually help.

Just again for fun.

djlovesyou wrote:

azania wrote:
Fact is not one has tested positive for steroids. Sarms is back home not to hide from the testers as you are alluding to, but because he gets better training and better competition. Having the world's fastest man does actually help.

Just again for fun.

azania wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:Evidence?

You're gonna make me ask you about the evidence on Flo Jo aren't you?

Which I have given many times. But it seems some here prefer this branch to be like rather than debating a hot topic in which opinions are strong on either side.

No you haven't. You've given me a bunch of "so and so said this and that", "Barry White voice", "all female bodybuilders". You've passed off a bunch of circumstantial claptrap and called it evidence.

I don't think she was clean but I also don't think it's fair on women to be branded cheats any more than men when it's pretty obvious that some male athletes are cheats too. Problem is, women are meant to be beautiful, speak in a soft voice, act all feminine yet still be great athletes. It is therefore less obvious when the males are cheating because they are meant to get bigger and stronger, look mean etc. It's less obvious but then in the case of some male athletes I think you could put your house on them not being clean.

Look, I wrote a couple of paragraphs and not once did I mention Yohan Blake!

djlovesyou wrote:What's so funny about 'some sort of testing'?

The only testing JADCO did on Jamaican athletes in 2009 was at the national trials. This was sufficient for the IAAF as they did the rest.

Do you have any evidence on that ? I'd like to believe you, but it seems that your rarely be back up your posts with evidence. What about the following years ?

djlovesyou wrote:

azania wrote:
Fact is not one has tested positive for steroids. Sarms is back home not to hide from the testers as you are alluding to, but because he gets better training and better competition. Having the world's fastest man does actually help.

Just again for fun.

Evidence?

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:Evidence?

You're gonna make me ask you about the evidence on Flo Jo aren't you?

Which I have given many times. But it seems some here prefer this branch to be like rather than debating a hot topic in which opinions are strong on either side.

No you haven't. You've given me a bunch of "so and so said this and that", "Barry White voice", "all female bodybuilders". You've passed off a bunch of circumstantial claptrap and called it evidence.

I don't think she was clean but I also don't think it's fair on women to be branded cheats any more than men when it's pretty obvious that some male athletes are cheats too. Problem is, women are meant to be beautiful, speak in a soft voice, act all feminine yet still be great athletes. It is therefore less obvious when the males are cheating because they are meant to get bigger and stronger, look mean etc. It's less obvious but then in the case of some male athletes I think you could put your house on them not being clean.

Look, I wrote a couple of paragraphs and not once did I mention Yohan Blake!

With all due respect, your paragraph on Blake was ridiculous. His jaw line hasn't changed. He is bigger than he was 5 years ago. So is my son and daughter. But there is a wealth of meaty circumstantial evidence to point fingers as well as javalins towards Flo's cleanliness re steroids.

What about Sarms?

What about some evidence?

Evidence of Sarms?

Bobby-Gaye Sarms will tell you.

SO because she was on juice 4 years ago, all JA runners should have a cloud over them now. Miller was on EPO. He is now in the GB cycling team. Are they all on drugs? Are all sprinters on drugs?

You should join te Women's institute or the Conservative/Republican Party.

Babario asked you for evidence also. Are you going to be equally silly or just ignore his question as you do others you don't like?

You thought her name was Sarms.

So that is your response to babario also. Predictable.

You do realise that the reason why Jamaican athletes are tested so much by the IAAF is because they don't have a national anti-doping agency that does it for them?

Why do you keep ignoring this simple fact.

Is it too complicated for your simple mind?

The operative words being "so much". How often are they tested in comparison to others?

That's what this thread is about yep?

Tell me you actually clicked on the links before you started spouting your ridiculous nonsense?

You did, surely?

The link provided by the OP shows the JA athletes tested more that UK athletes.

By the IAAF. The reasons for this are explained by my post(s).

I don't understand why this is so complicated.

You have not provided anything other that a wild claim that Bolt is working with Hereida. with a source that is dodgy at best. You have been asked countless times by other posters for some credible evidence but have provided didly squat. Sorry but I will take the IAAF over gossip that you spout any day.

djk provided a credible source to prove that the JA sthletes have been tested more than others. You provided a Dear`Diedrie type argument. Try again mate.

Interesting post by babario which unsurprisingly you failed to respond to. You probably missed it also so thank me later for re-posting it and hope you have the decency to address it.

by Babario on Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:33 pm

djlovesyou wrote:He wasn't caught by his own federation. He was caught by JADCO.


And JADCO is ? the Jamaican anti-doping body ? isn't it ?

djlovesyou wrote:
At the time, it seemed like the head of JADCO was actually very keen on catching and banning Jamaican drug cheats. They tested them, came back positive and within hours these results had been leaked to the press. There was no chance for covering this one up.


That's why they caught Steve Mullings two years later, a 9"80 sprinter (therefore a medal hope) and handed him a life ban for using, not a doping agent but a diuretic (generally used as a masking agent). BTW, you said that the results were leaked to the press(I don't know if it is true ) but it is the case, it shows that covering is not as easy as you believe (whistleblowers are always a problem, ask BALCO cheats...)

djlovesyou wrote:
It's little wonder that the only time they test athletes these days is still at the trials.


And this claim is based on which evidence ?
Having doubts against their athletes is perfectly normal (and there is one in particular that makes me very suspicious). But base your claims on facts, not speculation... [b]

Apologies for the poor re-posting. I hope you can decipher it out. If you can't its on the last third of the previous page.

You don't even understand what I'm posting sadly.

It's tough to have a conversation with someone with so little working knowledge.

Bobby-Gaye Sarms. Haha.

I seriously don't think you know what you are on about. Gossip against fact.

But babario's post. Was it another you didn't see. In any case, I took the liberty of reposting it again in the (apparently) vain hope that you would respond to it.

azania wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:Evidence?

You're gonna make me ask you about the evidence on Flo Jo aren't you?

Which I have given many times. But it seems some here prefer this branch to be like rather than debating a hot topic in which opinions are strong on either side.

No you haven't. You've given me a bunch of "so and so said this and that", "Barry White voice", "all female bodybuilders". You've passed off a bunch of circumstantial claptrap and called it evidence.

I don't think she was clean but I also don't think it's fair on women to be branded cheats any more than men when it's pretty obvious that some male athletes are cheats too. Problem is, women are meant to be beautiful, speak in a soft voice, act all feminine yet still be great athletes. It is therefore less obvious when the males are cheating because they are meant to get bigger and stronger, look mean etc. It's less obvious but then in the case of some male athletes I think you could put your house on them not being clean.

Look, I wrote a couple of paragraphs and not once did I mention Yohan Blake!

With all due respect, your paragraph on Blake was ridiculous. His jaw line hasn't changed. He is bigger than he was 5 years ago. So is my son and daughter. But there is a wealth of meaty circumstantial evidence to point fingers as well as javalins towards Flo's cleanliness re steroids.

With all due respect there was nothing ridiculous about it. The man looks completely different to what he did 4 years ago. He was a slender string of nothing when he was 18 and now not only is he twice the size, his eyes bulge out of his head, his face is puffed out and his trap muscles are abnormally massive. As a regular gym goer (who doesn't use steroids!) I know body builders who all say that he is almost certainly on steroids. Add all this to the fact that he's already failed a drug test (one more than Flo Jo I should add), he brags about how hard he trains (pretty much a dead giveaway) then there's a fair amount of "meaty" circumstatial evidence on him too. The fact he calls himself the "Beast" is almost like he's taunting the anti-dopers!

Flo Jo is the female equivalent of Yohan Blake. Both look/looked like they are chemically enhanced yet only one of them actually failed any drug tests.