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PGA Tour: PGA Championship: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 07 Aug 2012, 3:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy!
Has Five Hour Furyk forgotten how to win? He experienced quite a drought in the late 2000's, rediscovered winning ways at the 2010 Transition (despite shanking down the 72nd hole and singeing KJ Choi's eyebrows on the way), and won squeakily at Hilton Head followed by a round full of fortitude to win the Tour Championship (and FedEx Play Offs). Now he's been in the driver's seat three times this year and parked in the wrong place each time.

2).Meanwhile, Keegan Bradley finally wins without a play-off but still due to the haplessness of another. Still not convinced that Keegs is the real thing. And nor is his local newspaper - the biggest paper in Bradley's Vermont had not one word of the golf in Monday's edition, not even the result. But he's secured his Ryder Cup place and it looks increasingly as if Furyk (so brilliant in the Presidents Cup in Melbourne but very dodgy in Ryder Cup play) will be hoping for a Captain's pick.

3).A perennial gripe about these WGC's - what incentive is there for the pros once they slip out of, say, the top twenty? There aren't many bigger admirers of Lee Westwood than me, but his weekend demonstrates that the WGC people have got their prizemoney structure all wrong. +14 was Westwood's weekend "effort" in finishing 70th, but he still took home $42K, only $30K less than two level par rounds would have earned him.
And then there's Jaidee, Crane and the vanishing Taniguchi who handed in sick notes, banked $40K and limped off to South Carolina.
Time for a cut (like The Masters, say, top 44 and those within ten shots) and lower paydays for the bottom trawlers. Spend that money instead on the leaders and create differentials worth playing for.

4).Didn't see much of the Bridgestone but really enjoyed the coverage of the Reno-Tahoe Open. A leaderboard full of characters and a worthy winner in JJ Henry. The four rookies on the USA Ryder Cup Team at the K Club, Zach, Wetterich, Vaughn Taylor and JJ have had mixed fortunes since their drenching in Ireland. Zach Johnson, of course, has gone from strength to strength, injuries have derailed Wetterich's career almost before it really started, Taylor has hit the buffers, but JJ has been like a journeyman freight train, chugging his way through the Tour season, consistently keeping his card for 12 years while supporting minor events, but never returning to the winners' platform. Until now.
Great to see Brazil's Alex Rocha getting in to the mix, four years early?, and pleased to see Romero back in the shake-up. Then there were the Open Champions: Daly tied with Leonard for his first top five since 2005, Hamilton in 8th, Harrington 19th, and Cink (talk about a slump) and Duval squandering chances of a decent payday. Seemed the modified Stableford format was very popular among the pros.

5).Very disappointing performances at the Bridgestone for those hoping for a Ryder Cup qualification. Given that Rose, McIlroy, Westwood, McDowell and Donald have their places secure, the best Bridgestone finish by the next ten contenders was T29 for Cabrera-Bello, Sergio, Kaymer and Poulter. Expect Davis Love to be quaking in his boots.

6).And look at the Europeans' form this year. Of the current owgr top fifty, the following have all lost more points this year than they've gained, indicative of their games being off the boil:
Donald, Westwood, Kaymer, Garcia, Poulter, Bjorn, Jacobson, Dyson, F'dez and Quiros. (While others such as Casey, Karlsson, Hansen, Luiten and The Mechanic have disappeared completely.) Is it too late to have another look at Carl Pettersson's eligibility?

7).But the Americans only have the long-term absentee Dustin Johnson, Watney and Toms from the top 55 with more points lost than gained, the rest (Mickelson possibly excepted) in decent to sparkling form.
There may be a turnround on the Carolina Shore this week, but I doubt it.

8).And so to Kiawah Island, home of the War on the Shore. (For accounts by those who were there, read your August Golf Digest - the most telling part to me was American disbelief at the amount the Europeans were drinking!)
Very few of those in the 156-man field for this week's PGA Championship have competitive form at Pete Dye's "Ocean Course", although some such as Rafa C-Bello, have played Junior competitions there.
But the WGC World Cup was played there twice, in 1997 and 2003, and these guys played well!
1997: 1st: Harrington (won with McGinley)
2003: 1st: Sabbatini and Immelman, with Casey and Rose runners up.

9).No Bernhard Langer or Hale Irwin this week, no Paul Broadhurst and no Steve Pate (come to think of it we didn't see much of him in the Ryder Cup either. Hmmmmm.), and hopefully no camo gear.

10).Weather will play a big part this week though; Pete Dye took a gorgeous ocean-side property, raised much of it above the dunes, and created a seaside target-golf monster, with almost all the course exposed to the elements but very few run-up areas in front of the greens. There has been significant rain these past few days and a steady diet of 10 - 15 mph breezes is forecast. Yorkshireman Kerry Haigh is responsible for setting up the course and he'll need all his skill to strike a fair balance, but he has an impeccable reputation and let's hope he lives up to it!

No idea who might win, but I fancy local-ish boy Dustin Johnson as best of the Americans. Otherwise I expect Ireland (North and South) and South Africa to contest the medals. For a rank outsider, how about Simon Dyson?

But of one thing you may be certain: If the sole survivor from the War of 1991, Jose Maria Olazabal, plays as he did 21 years ago, there'll only be one winner!

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 08 Aug 2012, 8:55 pm

Don't think so, though I'm sure there'd be chatter about it if he top threed this week.
I also doubt it's especially important for him personally; he knows his game is not quite where it needs to be - he's had his chances this year, played well in patches, but hardly presented a compelling case.

Rightly or wrongly, Poulter must be a cert. And presumably Sergio if he doesn't qualify automatically. Otherwise Colsaerts seems to have the inside track.

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Post by sirbenson Wed 08 Aug 2012, 8:57 pm

A win this week takes care of it all.

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Post by GPB Wed 08 Aug 2012, 10:18 pm

AS someone who is rooting for the Team USA, I am hoping that Poulter gets a wild card.

I like IJP, I like his brashness. But I think his attitude all year long has been that he is a lock for the team, no matter how he plays. Part of the good ole boy club. IMO, Europe has much better players than IJP.

As The current top 10 of the Euro Team is nothing but RC Veterans, I would invest into the future and pick two rookies. Someone like Colsearts or RCB or Quiros or Gonzo or Matteo depending on how they play in the next couple weeks.

Is there any chance of some mysterious injury that might appear like at Valderama with Miguel Angel Martin. (that got Ollie on the team)


Last edited by GPB on Wed 08 Aug 2012, 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by McLaren Wed 08 Aug 2012, 10:18 pm

Pedro

Social mobility is alive and well, take me for example; I am several socio economic groups away from that of my parents. Sadly in the wrong direction from my point of view.


Benson

I wonder if anyone can provide the actual numbers, but I suspect in a mini order of merit made up only of the majors paddy would be pretty well placed this season. So, how much weighting can we give to performance in majors to argue paddy is a sensible pick and would this level of weighting be fair?

I put this together about a week ago;

McLaren wrote:Just had a quick scan of the ruder cup qualification and assuming they don’t suffer a complete collapse in form the following are pretty much there;

Euro list
Rory MCILROY
Graeme MCDOWELL
Justin ROSE
Paul LAWRIE
Francesco MOLINARI

World list
Luke DONALD
Lee WESTWOOD
Peter HANSON

The two looking a little shaky are Sergio and Kaymer on the world list.

Here is a list of those just behind them and the number of points behind they are;


  first column to sergiosecond column to kaymer
Nicolas COLSAERTS 4.7818.19
Ian POULTER 15.7129.12
Rafa CABRERA-BELLO 18.431.81
Gonzalo FDEZ-CASTA�O 23.5236.93
Tromas BJ�RN 35.0248.43
Marcel SIEM 36.2849.69
Simon DYSON 49.262.61
Fredrik JACOBSON 53.967.31
Robert ROCK 55.7269.13
Padraig HARRINGTON 57.4270.83
Martin LAIRD 60.2973.7
Michael HOEY 63.6577.06
Alvaro QUIROS 63.777.11


I am not sure the euro list is an option for any of these players as they are at least EU 300,000 behind the fifth placed man Molinari.

Nicolas COLSAERTS 310,660 (Behind Molinari (Euro’s))
Gonzalo FDEZ-CASTA�O 437,867
Sergio GARCIA 555,230
Rafa CABRERA-BELLO 595,106
Alvaro QUIROS 670,817
Marcel SIEM 710,231


If we assume Molinari places well a few times it would be hard for other players to win EU300,000(and much more) more than him over the next month.

So realistically given current form it is likely only Colsaerts or poulter will pass one of Sergio or kaymer on the world list.

A pga or wgc win by someone outside the euro top 5 may shake that list up a little, but short of that it probably wont change.


So I reckon Harrington needs a pick, which I am ok with as long as Colsaerts is picked should he not make it.
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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 08 Aug 2012, 10:26 pm

Mac,
Trouble is, the standings already reflect excellent achievement in Majors, and he's still way in arrears. Didn't exactly shine at Lytham and I reckon J-M O will insist (he's pretty much said it in benson's quote) that he qualifies as of right.

benson's spot on: If he wins this week, it will take care of itself.

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Post by GPB Wed 08 Aug 2012, 11:09 pm

I think 175-180 OWGR points is the magic mark in the OWGR list

Anyone down to #30 Thorbjorn Oleson can get there with a win this week.

Anyone down to #16 Marcel Siem can get there with a solo 2nd.

Those kind of finishes would impact the Euro list similarly.


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Post by McLaren Thu 09 Aug 2012, 12:09 am

GPB

You are talking about players who probably dont have a major top ten between them. The euro list is pretty much set given those who are chasing and the gaps involved.

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Post by GPB Thu 09 Aug 2012, 12:15 am

McLaren, Stranger things have happened.

John Daly never had a top 10 in major in 1991.

Keegan had never played a major before last years PGA.

Paul Lawrie only played one major before winning the 99 Open Champ.

Shaun Micheel, Ben Curtis, Todd Hamilton, YE Yang, etc.

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Post by NedB-H Thu 09 Aug 2012, 12:52 am

Lawrie had never played in a major that wasn't the Open GPB, but to be fair he had played six of those!

Interesting thoughts on Poulter, but I disagree, as a European the only time I'll feel confident is when he's stepping up on the tee. Never mind what happens from here in, the Euro team is going to be a slightly cobbled together mix of the very good (Luke, Rory), the out of form (Kaymer? LW?) and the competent (Dyson/RCB/Hanson/whoever). Not necessarily a problem, they've won with that combo before, but Poulter is the ace in the pack for me, he is just supreme at this type of golf. Maybe I'm biased because I talked him up when Faldo picked him, and he repaid that handsomely, but I think he's the one guy Europe can rely on in this thing.

Anyway, back to this week... already nailed my colours to Poults' mast as one pick. But as a wider recommendation: we're looking for a relatively big hitter, with a good short game, and a controlled ball flight, I think. Can see Stricker and Furyk playing well again; I expect the winner either to be a veteran (35+), or a slightly unexpected American in the Bradley ilk, maybe an unheralded guy like a Dufner or Van Pelt.

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 1:09 pm

Wow what a start for Hoffman.

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:09 pm

Tales of Hoffman: quad, bird, bogey, double bogey. Whatever next?

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Post by Sand Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:12 pm

sirbenson wrote:Q. You had referenced Sergio earlier; how important is it for him to make the team, and why? And also Harrington, as well.
JOSÉ MARIA OLAZÁBAL: Well, you've seen him play a Ryder Cup. He's a great team player. His spirit is always really good. And in that regard, I think he's a great asset to the team. He has obviously the experience, the knowledge. He wants to be part of it. It's true that at the moment, his game is a little bit off. And pairing?wise, he's proved the last few Ryder Cups he can play with anybody, and he's done well. And I think that's very important. If you are looking at the players to be on your team, Sergio would certainly be one of them for sure.
Pádraig, he has to do really extraordinary well. He's well down the list. He will have to really do extraordinary well here. We've known Pádraig, he's a very methodical player. He really works hard at it. I've played with him a couple of times during this year. From tee?to?green, his game has been fairly good, but I think his putting has let him down this year so far.

This answer wreaks of I will not pick Padraig....I hope he doesn't pick him cause of the falling out he had years ago with him and the fact Sergio and Padraig don't get along due to one being an incredibly sore loser.

Perhaps Sergio didnt have the greatest reaction but then again it is being pipped for a major. Sergio hasnt had his best season admittely but is still in the qualifying berths at the moment. Can you seriously tell me Padraig deserves a pick?

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Post by incontinentia Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:22 pm

You think Sergio will get a pick cos he's from Spain?
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Post by super_realist Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:24 pm

Sergio will get a pick because he's got an outstanding Ryder Cup record, as I expect Poulter to be the other pick.

Harrington needs a bloody miracle to get in.

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:27 pm

Probably not but how many other Europeans currently have won two majors let alone the three Padraig has won?

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Post by Conehead Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:31 pm

Sergio's back to back wins that just creeped into the start of the points chase are the real reason he's still just inside the qualifying places.

Personally I think neither would be missed greatly if they weren't involved. Neither have played that well this season. I would rather Sergio qualify and not waste a wild card pick as it seems JMO is determined to have him in the team.

I would assusme Harrington pretty much needs to win the PGA to get in.

No doubt the Euro team looks weaker on paper than the American one but that doesn't count for much when the Comp begins.

Nice start for Keegan Bradley today....................imagine the outburst if another major is won with a long putter!


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Post by Sand Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:32 pm

super_realist wrote:Sergio will get a pick because he's got an outstanding Ryder Cup record, as I expect Poulter to be the other pick.

Harrington needs a bloody miracle to get in.

Couldnt have put it better myself. Harrington has won 3 majors admittely but has done zero since then. He also has a pretty poor Ryder Cup record and was pretty dreadful in Wales.

Garcia has been poor this year in that he hasnt won but has made a lot of cuts. Yet hes still in the qualifying ten at the moment and won twice last year. Not to mention his outstanding Ryder Cup record.

If Sergio doesnt qualify automatically id be surprised if he wasnt picked. The other one will be Poulter. If Sergio qualifies I think it will be Colsaerts or Cabrera Bello but more than likely Colsaerts.

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Post by Conehead Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:33 pm

sirbenson wrote:Probably not but how many other Europeans currently have won two majors let alone the three Padraig has won?

John Daly has 2 majors and I doubt he's on Love's radar. Harringtons record deserves respect but he can't dine out on past success' forever. He got a pick from Monty because of his major record, I don't think he can complain if he doesn't get picked this time.

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:33 pm

Conehead wrote:Sergio's back to back wins that just creeped into the start of the points chase are the real reason he's still just inside the qualifying places.

Personally I think neither would be missed greatly if they weren't involved. Neither have played that well this season. I would rather Sergio qualify and not waste a wild card pick as it seems JMO is determined to have him in the team.

I would assusme Harrington pretty much needs to win the PGA to get in.

No doubt the Euro team looks weaker on paper than the American one but that doesn't count for much when the Comp begins.

Nice start for Keegan Bradley today....................imagine the outburst if another major is won with a long putter!


Yes I think a win is what Padraig needs.

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:35 pm

He has actually played well in the majors this year....but I don't see him getting picked tbh. I see Poulter being a lock of a pick with Colsaerts more than likely being the second choice.

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:36 pm

http://www.pga.com/pgachampionship/live/pga/player.html

For those who don't know this video is running. Tiger's group.

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Post by super_realist Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:38 pm

Here we go again. Majors mean nothing in a Ryder Cup context, only an imbecile would pick a player on the basis of their Major records.

Look at the Ryder Cup records of Woods, Harrington and MIckelson, yet 21 majors between them, then look at Garcia, Donald, Monty, Poulter and Westwood. No majors but the best Ryder CUp records of the last 20 years.

Argument over, unless Harrington plays his way into the team, he should be at home harvesting his potatoes.

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Post by bluestonevedder Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:39 pm

Unfortunately, the link only works in the states I think Sirbenson. Thanks anyway though. Anyone listening to it on radio? I can't find a link to it anywhere....?

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:41 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:Unfortunately, the link only works in the states I think Sirbenson. Thanks anyway though. Anyone listening to it on radio? I can't find a link to it anywhere....?

Usually the case I know so I was surprised to see it worked, I am here in Dublin and it is working just perfectly.

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Post by bluestonevedder Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:42 pm

Seriously? Ah you lucky man!

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Post by McLaren Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:43 pm

If we base this on majors then DC needs to be considered for a pick.
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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:44 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:Seriously? Ah you lucky man!

Yep, surprised Sky are not giving it as an option though!

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Post by Conehead Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:46 pm

The PGA app on those lucky to have an IPad has the link working fine.

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Post by NedB-H Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:47 pm

Looks like we're only getting 6 hours from Sky in total today, very poor

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Post by Conehead Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:47 pm

McLaren wrote:If we base this on majors then DC needs to be considered for a pick.

I know that comment is tongue in cheek but only serves to highlight how rotten Darren Clarke has played since his Open win! Truly awful.

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:51 pm

Anyway this talk won't matter once Harrington wins this week!!

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Post by super_realist Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:53 pm

BOgey from Woods Yahoo

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:55 pm

If Kaymer misses out will he be a consideration for a wildcard? Form wise no way!

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 2:56 pm

Tiger fluffs a pitch!

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Post by Tinmar Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:02 pm

I see people talking about Sergio's outstanding Ryder Cup record. It was indeed outstanding - from 1999 to 2006. This is 2012. How long can someone dine out on something that happened 6 or more years ago? He missed 2010 and wasn't a whole lot better than Padraig in 2008. I also think he's a very different golfer now than he was in 2006 and earlier. I can't recall a worse loser than Sergio was after his Major disappointments in 2007 & 2008. Also, his body language on the course and his demeanour in interviews is incredibly negative. He looks utterly disinterested and unless he can have some sort of personality transplant before the Ryder Cup, it is difficult to see how he could inspire any of the other players in the team room.

As things stand, I would really fear for Europe this year. Too many of the players are out of form and are only hanging on to a place on the team due to the failure of those behind to put on any meaningful pressure. It looks like almost the entire US team will have had at least one significant win this year while several of the European team are struggling. It's interesting that there are currently no debutants on the 10 European qualifiers but 6 of the 10 have only played once. The team as it stands is not all that experienced in Ryder Cup play despite what some people seem to think.

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Post by super_realist Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:05 pm

Tinmar, THe oncourse demeanour and negativity displayed by Woods is far worse than Sergio, he also has an average Ryder Cup record, yet people fall over themselves to fawn over him.

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Post by Conehead Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:07 pm

Tinamr - spot on. Couldn't have described the situation any better.

The list of Americans relying on a wildcard pick would walk into the Euro side.


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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:09 pm

Sergio makes Tiger's on course demeanour look like that of a Kuchar!

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Post by super_realist Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:10 pm

Another bogey from the ghastly Woods, he better watch his bottom lip doesn't trip him up.

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:14 pm

Tiger with a solid putt and makes a birdie.

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Post by Sand Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:20 pm

sirbenson wrote:If Kaymer misses out will he be a consideration for a wildcard? Form wise no way!

You'd have to say no, hes playing very poor at the moment. Great player too.

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Post by super_realist Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:30 pm

sirbenson wrote:Tiger with a solid putt and makes a birdie.

Bet the miserable Sod didn't even smile. Don't know why he plays the game, looks like he hates it.

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Post by EmmDee57 Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:41 pm

What's the conditions like at Kiawah?

Woodland & Daly off to good starts. Is it a long course that favours big hitters?

Rory making his move early I see.

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Post by super_realist Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:42 pm

Fat Carl Petterson @ 100/1

Come on.

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:43 pm

Tiger has a 10/12 footer for par!

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:44 pm

EmmDee57 wrote:What's the conditions like at Kiawah?

Woodland & Daly off to good starts. Is it a long course that favours big hitters?

Rory making his move early I see.

Very hot and humid with no wind so far....the course is there to be had atm.

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Post by NedB-H Thu 09 Aug 2012, 3:49 pm

Hoffman's first 8 holes are incredible Erm Two birdies, three bogeys, two doubles and a quad, everything from a 3 to an 8...

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Post by sirbenson Thu 09 Aug 2012, 4:24 pm

Tiger is putting quite well today.

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Post by super_realist Thu 09 Aug 2012, 4:28 pm

WHo on earth takes the pictures on the PGA website of the players? They make passport photo's look like a David Bailey.

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Post by themightyone Thu 09 Aug 2012, 4:45 pm

Wow, Luiten is in his first PGA Championship and goes into the lead at five under after only zeven holes

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