Pick who you think will be in your nations starting XV come the Six Nations in 2013

First topic message reminder :

As the new season approaches and we excitedly discuss our new squads at club level, there are projections and predictions flying around various threads of players likely to get a cap, get forgotten or get their act together after poor form.

So who will make an introduction to the stage, who will bid farewell and who will be a shinning light come Febuary 2013.

One swallow does not make a successful date

I do not think it is unfair or harsh to say that we are a little nervous of NDL and his performances - not saying he should not have a chance, but when the pressure has come on he has folded several times in the pass.

It is hard to build a good reputation, but easy to build a bad one - and NDL needs to have a good 6 nations, with NO brain farts, before people will feel more comfortable with him

I hope he does so, I really do -

If that's the case then I'm not really sure what he could have done in the summer to make you feel less nervous? He did everything that was asked of him and saved our bacon against Fiji and got us in a position to beat Australia.


It is fair to say that NDL has buckled under pressure in the past but he and the whole Scotland team was under immense pressure against Australia and he and the rest of the team stood firm.

Furthermore NDL always seems to be singled out for brain Farts when the likes of Hamilton, R. Lamont and others who make big mistakes seem to get away with it.

Alex Grove needs to be given a go by Scotland, he was great for Worcester last season

Radge, surely if you admit that he has buckled under pressure in the past you can see why they would be nervous of having him.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:If that's the case then I'm not really sure what he could have done in the summer to make you feel less nervous? He did everything that was asked of him and saved our bacon against Fiji and got us in a position to beat Australia.


It is fair to say that NDL has buckled under pressure in the past but he and the whole Scotland team was under immense pressure against Australia and he and the rest of the team stood firm.

Furthermore NDL always seems to be singled out for brain Farts when the likes of Hamilton, R. Lamont and others who make big mistakes seem to get away with it.

3 games in a row should not be the standard for assessing whether he has turned a corner - sorry but imo that is just silly - make it 10 (SI, AI and 6 nations is close enough) and I will say he has turned a corner

I do not condone Hamiltons brain farts, or Lamonts, but NDL has made more than any of them in a Scotland shirt and has done so, with NO real pressure

I think he has talent, and if he can continue to impress (or even have some normal days) then he will be of great value to Scotland, if he gets sent off 3 times in the next 6 nations for silly errors - then he should be quietly dropped and replaced with one of the younger ones

red_stag wrote:Radge, surely if you admit that he has buckled under pressure in the past you can see why they would be nervous of having him.

The bulk of the criticism aimed at him was he can't bring his club form to the Scotland shirt. The times he has "buckled" under the pressure and had brain farts I think can be attributed to frustration at having meathead centres at 12 inside him.

Having Matt Scott at 12 for the summer clearly had a good impact on him and he seemed more relaxed and less desperate to try and counjure something out of nothing which is what he had to do with Morrison or Lamont at 12.

He didn't get frustrated or make many mistakes in the summer tour. It was almost like giving him a fresh start and I think he deserves the plaudits for playing so well.

There are a lot of other international 13s I would rather have playign 13 instead of him, I certainly don't think he would get a game for any other of the home nations, but he is IMO the best we have available and he seemed much more calm and level headed with genuine creativity inside him.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:AWOP -I don't want to go off topic. However no team enters a tournament witht he idea of trying out new sides. They go in to feild their best side and to win the games. The summer tours and the AIs are where the new players get blooded and prove their worth. (also are there any teir two teams in the 6Ns, italy are only ones rated below 10th in the IRB rankings).

Sure and of course. I was only raising the idea that the combinators named by the posters were quite conservative and not so many difference to the starting team in the recent tours. My mind was more radical thinking might be require! not in "trying out" but make the bold change and put faith in some young star dust in the way SCW did early in his career to build the team to play the style to beat the world!

I agree with you anotherworldofpain.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

red_stag wrote:Radge, surely if you admit that he has buckled under pressure in the past you can see why they would be nervous of having him.

The bulk of the criticism aimed at him was he can't bring his club form to the Scotland shirt. The times he has "buckled" under the pressure and had brain farts I think can be attributed to frustration at having meathead centres at 12 inside him.

Having Matt Scott at 12 for the summer clearly had a good impact on him and he seemed more relaxed and less desperate to try and counjure something out of nothing which is what he had to do with Morrison or Lamont at 12.

He didn't get frustrated or make many mistakes in the summer tour. It was almost like giving him a fresh start and I think he deserves the plaudits for playing so well.

There are a lot of other international 13s I would rather have playign 13 instead of him, I certainly don't think he would get a game for any other of the home nations, but he is IMO the best we have available and he seemed much more calm and level headed with genuine creativity inside him.

Which is all well and good, but I think the issue is the feeling that supporters were being too harsh on being nervous of NDL in a Scotland shirt - if he continues to perform and with better 12's inside him, he stays calm, we will get less nervous after each performances

Just too early to say if he has changed (IMO)

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Ken Owens
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Ian Evans
6. Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Warburton
8. Ryan Jones
9. Mike Phillips
10. Rhys Preistland
11. George North
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Jonathon Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Matthew Rees
17. Rhys Gill
18. Craig Mitchell (23 man benches now! )
19. Bradley Davies (Charteris abroad counted against him)
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Rhys Webb
22. Dan Biggar (hopefully)
23. Ashley Beck

606,

So why have you got Jenkins and Phillips in your starting line up if being abroad counts against people?

Also Gill and Mitchell both play in England so will be avaiable to the coaches when needed all the time, in fact being in France more of a benefit than in England when it comes to being released.

bedfordwelsh wrote:606,

So why have you got Jenkins and Phillips in your starting line up if being abroad counts against people?

Also Gill and Mitchell both play in England so will be avaiable to the coaches when needed all the time, in fact being in France more of a benefit than in England when it comes to being released.

Jenkins and Phillips are miles ahead of their competition. Davies, Jones, Charteris and Evans are pretty even (and Charteris has been the worst of them since the end of the WC) - so being abroad will count against him (as Gatland has stated)

wales606 wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:606,

So why have you got Jenkins and Phillips in your starting line up if being abroad counts against people?

Also Gill and Mitchell both play in England so will be avaiable to the coaches when needed all the time, in fact being in France more of a benefit than in England when it comes to being released.

Jenkins and Phillips are miles ahead of their competition. Davies, Jones, Charteris and Evans are pretty even (and Charteris has been the worst of them since the end of the WC) - so being abroad will count against him (as Gatland has stated)

Disagree completely, I would say Healy is ahead of Jenkins, who hasn't done an awful lot of late, particularly for the Blues last season.

I would say Corbs and Marler will be right up there with Jenkins aswell...its still a year to go.....

Artful_Dodger wrote:

wales606 wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:606,

So why have you got Jenkins and Phillips in your starting line up if being abroad counts against people?

Also Gill and Mitchell both play in England so will be avaiable to the coaches when needed all the time, in fact being in France more of a benefit than in England when it comes to being released.

Jenkins and Phillips are miles ahead of their competition. Davies, Jones, Charteris and Evans are pretty even (and Charteris has been the worst of them since the end of the WC) - so being abroad will count against him (as Gatland has stated)

Disagree completely, I would say Healy is ahead of Jenkins, who hasn't done an awful lot of late, particularly for the Blues last season.

Unfortunately, Healy cant play for Wales. Which is a pity, because he is playing better than Gethin.

Doh - I confused this for the Lions one year out thread- my mistake buddy.

I'm an NDL fan for Embra. Stlll unconvinced for Scotland, but with Scott inside and Visser outside seemed to play a bit better in the summer. So I reserve judgement for the time being.

If Cairns gets back to his best he's going to be a serious challenge at Embra, but I always thought Cairns was the best 15 Scotland never had. He had a couple of marvellous games there for Embra before his injury.

It's difficult to say, as that's the end of our off-season but I think it'll be something like this:

Woodcock, Hore, O Franks
Whitelock, Romano,
Hoeata, McCaw, Read
A Smith, Carter
Nonu, C Smith
Gear, Jane, Dagg

Mealamu, Tameifuna, Rettalick, Cane, TJ Perenara, Cruden, Ellison.

Hoeata to be picked for the AIs and told his lock playing days are over and he is to concentrate on being the next Kaino. That team would give me the warm fuzzies.

justified sinner wrote:I'm an NDL fan for Embra. Stlll unconvinced for Scotland, but with Scott inside and Visser outside seemed to play a bit better in the summer. So I reserve judgement for the time being.

If Cairns gets back to his best he's going to be a serious challenge at Embra, but I always thought Cairns was the best 15 Scotland never had. He had a couple of marvellous games there for Embra before his injury.

I think there are far more important and likely issues to be nervous about than NDL.

1. Ryan Grant - can he really scrummage at the highest level against proper tightheads. Did well in the summer, but didn't face anyone of the calibre of Adam Jones or Dan Cole. I've seen him have some issues in a Glasgow jersey, and he'll have to work on his technique.

2. Ross Ford's throwing - far more destructive last season than NDL issues. Time and time again field position and possession were lost by wayward darts. Fix the problems and he could be a Lions starter. Allow the problems to persist and he may not make the plane.

3. Injury to David Denton - without him we don't have a ball carrier. Strong ball carriers are a get out of jail card for teams under pressure. They give you momentum and get you moving forward in situations when the ball is slow. Barclay, Brown or Vernon at 8 is no substitute. We need both Denton and Beattie fit and in form. Without either our slim chances against NZ and SA evaporate.

4. Laidlaw's defensive channel - he's a tough son of a gun, but also a midget by the standards of international rugby players. Expect Spies and Read to have a go. Last season we conceded some points in this area, we'll need to make sure we have cover.

All of the above merit more concern than NDL.

My England Team for 6 nations;

1. Corbs
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Laws
5. Attwood
6. Croft
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Care
10. Flood
11. Ashton
12. Allen
13. Manu
14. May
15. Foden

Bench: Marler, Tom Youngs , Henry Thomas, Launchbury, Wood, Ben Youngs, Ford , Joseph.

Good side that. Agree that Ford and Joseph should be involved in the squad, and I also think that the sooner Jonny May is involved the better.

Personally I'd switch Care and Youngs, and I'd select Haskell at number 8 in place of Morgan (although I appreciate that is unlikely in reality given his omission from the EPS).

Some interesting names to look out for this season. Henry Thomas, Joe Launchbury and the return of Tom Wood in particular.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Good side that. Agree that Ford and Joseph should be involved in the squad, and I also think that the sooner Jonny May is involved the better.

Personally I'd switch Care and Youngs, and I'd select Haskell at number 8 in place of Morgan (although I appreciate that is unlikely in reality given his omission from the EPS).

Some interesting names to look out for this season. Henry Thomas, Joe Launchbury and the return of Tom Wood in particular.

I think we should get as many players into the side that will be around for the next world cup. I expect the side for the 2015 world cup to look something like this;

Marler
Tom Youngs
Cole
Laws
Launchbury
Robshaw
Kvesic
Morgan
Care/ Youngs
Ford
May
Allen/ Joseph
Manu
Ashton
Goode/ Foden

funnyExiledScot wrote:

justified sinner wrote:I'm an NDL fan for Embra. Stlll unconvinced for Scotland, but with Scott inside and Visser outside seemed to play a bit better in the summer. So I reserve judgement for the time being.

If Cairns gets back to his best he's going to be a serious challenge at Embra, but I always thought Cairns was the best 15 Scotland never had. He had a couple of marvellous games there for Embra before his injury.

I think there are far more important and likely issues to be nervous about than NDL.

1. Ryan Grant - can he really scrummage at the highest level against proper tightheads. Did well in the summer, but didn't face anyone of the calibre of Adam Jones or Dan Cole. I've seen him have some issues in a Glasgow jersey, and he'll have to work on his technique.

2. Ross Ford's throwing - far more destructive last season than NDL issues. Time and time again field position and possession were lost by wayward darts. Fix the problems and he could be a Lions starter. Allow the problems to persist and he may not make the plane.

3. Injury to David Denton - without him we don't have a ball carrier. Strong ball carriers are a get out of jail card for teams under pressure. They give you momentum and get you moving forward in situations when the ball is slow. Barclay, Brown or Vernon at 8 is no substitute. We need both Denton and Beattie fit and in form. Without either our slim chances against NZ and SA evaporate.

4. Laidlaw's defensive channel - he's a tough son of a gun, but also a midget by the standards of international rugby players. Expect Spies and Read to have a go. Last season we conceded some points in this area, we'll need to make sure we have cover.

All of the above merit more concern than NDL.

True, but to paraphrase Rummie, these are the 'known knowns', whereas De Luca remains an 'unknown known' for me

606,

Jenkins hasn't been on best form of late and Phillips well is Phillips he's a bit like marmite.

bedfordwelsh wrote:606,

Jenkins hasn't been on best form of late and Phillips well is Phillips he's a bit like marmite.

But Gethin is still first choice, Gill and James are good deputies, but not Gethin's quality.

Phillips is the best SH available, he has flaws, but if the only quality SH at the moment and has the experience to control the team at 9, something Webb and Williams lack at the moment.

I agree about Jenkins though James is pushing him at the moment and is a better technical scrummager, Phillips mmmmm I am not so sure.

I think he should be involved but I would rather see Williams given his chance now as we need faster service.

Bennett obviously needs to be playing for the Clermont 1st team to get into Scotland's matchday squad as does Farndale at Edinburgh. Who cares if they hadn't had a full season at pro level? Neither had Hogg and that worked out quite well. If Bennett and Farndale are as special as people are saying they are and they seem to be I think they should train with the squad so as soon as they are ready they can be integrated without issue. Woodward invited Wilkinson to train with the squad frequently before he was selected officially and it is often done in football. As far as starting team for the six nations is concerned depending on form I think only Gray and Ford are guaranteed places. I've included those who I think could be in contention in order of preference:
1. Grant/ Welsh
2. Ford/ MacArthur
3. Murray/ Cross
4. Gray/ Kellock/ Ryder/ McKenzie
5. Gilchrist/ Hamilton/ Swinson
6. Brown/ Strockosh/ Harley
7. Rennie/ Barclay/ Fusaro
8. Denton/ Beattie/ MacInally/ Vernon
9. Cusiter/ Blair
10. Weir/ Laidlaw/ Leonard/ Jackson
11. Visser/ Sean Lamont
12. Scott/ Dunbar
13. De Luca/ Cairns/ Bennett/ Ansbro/ Grove etc. (depending on who's getting game time, form and injury free
14.Jones/ Farndale/ Evans
15. Hogg/ Brown/ Ramont

Ok, ok, it looks like my joke about De Luca was slightly over the top.

Despite what many of you might think, I actually really like De Luca. Even if he wasn't a particularly flashy player himself, I'd start him for his ability to make space for Visser, and because of his partnership with Scott. The thing is, he is a really good player. He has great line speed and makes brilliant tackles. He is exactly the type of player I'd want in the midfield to stifle a team who likes to spread it wide (the NZ game in November could make him a legend, if he performs). He also has a nice step and a good turn of pace.

The reason I joke about De Luca is because my body betrays me. (whoa, not like that...) Even though I know he's good, there have been too many dropped passes, too many silly penalties conceded, and too many of those 'I just dropped my ice-cream' petulant looks to make me completely and utterly comfortable when he plays in blue.

So, to clarify, he isn't like a prostate exam at all. He is a bit like a mammogram - worth taking seriously, and likely to make you look like a tool if you attempt comedy...

No more jokes, I promise.

That was a nice trip down mammary lane IanBru.

x2

IanBru wrote:1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Strokosch
7. Rennie
8. Denton

9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. De Luca
14. Ansbro
15. Hogg


Breaking through: Pat McArthur (hooker), Rob Harley (blindside), Tom Ryder (lock), Alex Dunbar (Centre), and Stuart McInally.
Put out to pasture: Graeme Morrison, Al Jacobsen, Nikki Walker, and Hugo Southwell
Back with a bang: Kelly Brown and Johnnie Beattie.
Shining light: Laidlaw, Gray (again), Murray, Visser, and Scott.
On the horizon: Harry Leonard (Stand-off) Jamie Farndale (wing), Mark Bennett (Stand-off/Centre), and Mitch Eadie (Number 8).

I think Weir will be in the squad, also not sure about Blair as he isn't playing top flight rugby anymore - Brive aren't in the Top14. I think Cusiter might start then when he goes off move Laidlaw to 9 and bring Weir on at 10

I just don't rate De Luca's top 2%, physically he's a fantastic player with pace, agility and strength. But when the pressure is on and it's tight bumhole time, I'd be more worried with him in the team.

Would much prefer to see Ansbro get a run of games there, he's got a good outside break and doesn't seem to make many mistakes.

There's always Grove, good defender and solid attacker, never going to win you a match but won't lose you one either. Plus Cairns is coming back from injury and always looked like a great support runner in the outside channel.

Or they could possibly playing Dunbar at 13 with Scott at 12, that would punch holes for sure.

Long-term, obviously Bennett has looked the business but there's still a long way to go before he's the first choice 13 for Clermont let alone Scotland.

The Ireland team I would like to see in next years 6N. (Won't happen, I know)

Healy
Best
Fitzpatrick
Ryan
Tuohy
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Earls
Hanrahan
Bowe
Gilroy
Kearney

Ross, McAllister, Cronin, Toner, POM, Murray, Madigan, McFadden

That is a nice team Rava, though stick Hendy on the bench.

The one real change I would make is having Bowe at 13. I would move him to the wing over Earls who moves to the bench. There are a few 13s who will put their hand up this season I think. Cave, Spence, EOM etc. One of them will prove themselves this season, I am sure of it.

Rava wrote:The Ireland team I would like to see in next years 6N. (Won't happen, I know)

Healy
Best
Fitzpatrick
Ryan
Tuohy
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Earls
Hanrahan
Bowe
Gilroy
Kearney

Ross, McAllister, Cronin, Toner, POM, Murray, Madigan, McFadden

Not an Ulster fan are you?

Rava wrote:The Ireland team I would like to see in next years 6N. (Won't happen, I know)

Healy
Best
Fitzpatrick
Ryan
Tuohy
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Earls
Hanrahan
Bowe
Gilroy
Kearney

Ross, McAllister, Cronin, Toner, POM, Murray, Madigan, McFadden

Rav. this is a blatant violation of the rules regarding Irish team selection - as you well know, you are only permitted ONE 'token' selection from the Ulster branch

Asbo the power base is shifting. No longer will we be ignored!
Tommy Bowe choosing Ulster over Munster cannot be understated

Rava wrote:The Ireland team I would like to see in next years 6N. (Won't happen, I know)

Healy
Best
Fitzpatrick
Ryan
Tuohy
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Earls
Hanrahan
Bowe
Gilroy
Kearney

Ross, McAllister, Cronin, Toner, POM, Murray, Madigan, McFadden

Come of it Rava, you are taking the p man...







.. I can't believe you picked Earls on the wing ...

Neither can I

Its interesting you went for Deccie over Mike Ross! The problem for him is obviously the big bloke with the Auckland accent who doesn't want to give up that Ulster shirt too easily...

I still think Ross is the better player, I have to say! I would welcome seeing him get pushed a bit all the same.

Had to throw in a couple of Ringers Notch.
I think Deccie will push Tom Court aside once the IRB decide to have two props on the bench. With a good pre-season behind him Fitz should be a lot fitter than he was last season, therefore more effective.
I don't expect to see him replace Ross, but in my view there is very little difference between the two based on the last few games last season.
Obviously if Afoa stays fit then he won't get a lot of starts but he actually could do Afoa a massive favour by being up to speed so the management can actually give him (Afoa) a rest during the season.

i would love ravas team with poc and drico. still think they have something to offer

no doubt it will be the good old boys who have not delivered the last 2 years as they have the experience and know how.

If it is Healy,Best,Ross,POC,Ryan,Ferris,SOB,Heaslip,Murray,Sexton,Earls,Darcy,Drico,Bowe,Kearney SUBS- Court,Fitzpatrick.DOC,O Mahony, Reddan, Rog, Mc Fadden we will need a change of strategy, a new attack coach or a new coach to get anywhere near even a triple crown