Euro 2012: Day 12 Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Sweden v France (ITV 4, 19:45)
England v Ukraine (ITV 1, 19:45)

Current Group Standings:

France - 4
England - 4
Ukraine - 3
Sweden - 0


If points are level, sorting criteria is thus:

Equality of points after the group matches
8.07 If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the
following criteria are applied, in the order given; to determine the rankings:
a) higher number of points obtained in the matches among the teams in question;
b) superior goal difference in the matches among the teams in question (if MORE
than two teams finish equal on points);
c) higher number of goals scored in the matches among the teams in question (if
MORE than two teams finish equal on points);
d) superior goal difference in all the group matches;
e) higher number of goals scored in all the group matches;
f) position in the UEFA national team coefficient ranking system (see Annex I,
paragraph 1.2.2);
g) fair play conduct of the teams (final tournament);
h) drawing of lots.

And this is what each team needs to do:

France (v Sweden)
Win - Secures qualification. Top spot depends on the result between England and Ukraine. If England also win, top spot goes to the team with the superior goal difference.
Draw - Secures qualification. Will still progress as group winners if England v Ukraine ends in a draw courtesy of their superior goal difference over Roy Hodgson's men.
Lose - Through as second-placed team if England beat Ukraine. If England and Ukraine draw, France will still qualify courtesy of their better head-to-head record against the co-hosts. If both England and France lose the team which has the superior goal difference between the pair will qualify.

England (v Ukraine)
Win - Secures qualification and they will progress as group winners if France fail to beat Sweden.
Draw - Secures qualification and they will progress as group winners if France lose to Sweden. If both final group games end in a draw, France will qualify as group winners courtesy of their superior goal difference over Roy Hodgson's men.
Lose - Out if France win or draw against Sweden. If both England and France lose the team which has the superior goal difference between the pair will qualify.

Ukraine (v England)
Win - Secures qualification. They will qualify as group winners if France fail to beat Sweden.
Draw - Out.
Lose - Out.

Sweden (v France)
Already eliminated.

Final day of the group stages, we have 6 teams through to the Quarters, 2 teams will join tomorrow. Sweden are already out courtesy of losing to the Co-Hosts and England. Ukraine need a win against England to qualify, nothing else will do and on their home patch they will be feeling confident. England only need to avoid defeat and they will make it to the quarters, whether they will make it to top spot or not depends on the French game and how many goals England can score with a certain Wayne Rooney back in the team (of course England could make it through with a defeat but that's a pretty unlikely scenario in which Sweden will need to beat France by a bigger margin than Ukraine beat England). For France, avoiding defeat will guarantee them qualification, a defeat and they will need to rely on England drawing or beating the Ukraine. And similar to England, they could make it through with a defeat.

Winners of Group D will face Italy.
Runners Up of Group D will face Spain.

Come on England!

[Guest]

But it wasnt given offside you id*ot! Your saying those parker blocks in his own box were not chances???

That shot that was swerving and had hart in all kinds of trouble was not a chance, wtf?????

but let me guess if they were england chances, you would be adding them to the tally.........thought so!

[eirebilly]

John, you really take realism to an extreme negative.
I saw a very emotional Ukraine side playing their hearts out in front of their home fans on a huge stage. Of course they were going to be difficult and would create chances.

The fact remains, England undefeated when every other team in the group lost at least a match. may not be the prettiest of football but its very effective. England are sticking to gameplans and its working.

[bretmeharty]

The goal off the line was offside so logically that should never have counted anyway.

So those 2 tackles by Parker weren't actually chances then?

The shot from 25 yards?

You tried, but no.

The free header right in front of goal!!!

Anyway I agree with both parties, another day they could of let in a couple and chances like that against Italy or the Germans and we could be in trouble, but there is a little bit of me thats starting to believe, and im taking it one match at a time and just enjoying the ride

[GSC]

England's gameplan revolves around getting blocks on the edge of the box, they had like 5 or 6 last night that never had a hope of going in.

Not really sure what the defense is meant to do for 25 yarders besides do their best to block it and trust to Hart. All these petty insults really don't support your cause either. Just makes you look petty.

[Guest]

they had like 5 or 6 last night that never had a hope of going in.

Your starting to back track now, actually admitting they had chances, we're getting somewhere. How can you say those shots that were blocked by last ditch tackles by parker inside his box were not chances and had no hope of going in? All i'm saying is that if we allow the italians the time, space, possession and chances that we allowed a poor Ukraine side then we will be going out.

[JamesLincs]

ive only watched parker as a spurs player, and youll never see him take the ball forward, just isnt in his game. his passing can be off at times, but youll rarely see him give it away. he should just keep hold of the ball, deep in midfield until he can find gerrard with it.

I just dont see the point in that, to me he was a wasted player for large periods of the game with his little 2mtr passes here and there. I have lost count of the amount of times in the first half that he passed back to Terry only for Terry to make an excellent pass. Isnt he in the side for his passing ability? I have yet to see any of it at this tournement. Great club player but looks very nervous and out of his depth at International level.

no offence, but that might be a reason why were still in the tournament, and youre not.. infact, it is! our game has been based on a solid defence, and parker is that first line of it, and a bloody effective one at that! he has been absolutely battered so far, and still looks like a poster boy. he might not be an effective attacking threat but his job title is defensive midfielder!!

[JamesLincs]

ukraine had according to bbc 16 chances last night, of which about half or more were shots from outside the area. from memory 2 that had chance of going in and only 1 clear cut chance that was the header from 6 yards. most went over the bar, were scrambled away, blocked or saved very comfortably by hart

[bretmeharty]

ive only watched parker as a spurs player, and youll never see him take the ball forward, just isnt in his game. his passing can be off at times, but youll rarely see him give it away. he should just keep hold of the ball, deep in midfield until he can find gerrard with it.

I just dont see the point in that, to me he was a wasted player for large periods of the game with his little 2mtr passes here and there. I have lost count of the amount of times in the first half that he passed back to Terry only for Terry to make an excellent pass. Isnt he in the side for his passing ability? I have yet to see any of it at this tournement. Great club player but looks very nervous and out of his depth at International level.

no offence, but that might be a reason why were still in the tournament, and youre not.. infact, it is! our game has been based on a solid defence, and parker is that first line of it, and a bloody effective one at that! he has been absolutely battered so far, and still looks like a poster boy. he might not be an effective attacking threat but his job title is defensive midfielder!!

Now that is being biased

[JamesLincs]

he's a good looking lad is parker

[GSC]

they had like 5 or 6 last night that never had a hope of going in.

Your starting to back track now, actually admitting they had chances, we're getting somewhere. How can you say those shots that were blocked by last ditch tackles by parker inside his box were not chances and had no hope of going in? All i'm saying is that if we allow the italians the time, space, possession and chances that we allowed a poor Ukraine side then we will be going out.

I don't count shots that are always going to be blocked as chances, try again.

[Guest]

Shots that are always going to be blocked???? Didn't know you could predict the future and see what is blocked, scored or missed during this tournament....

Yes but that's the issue I'm trying to get across about chances. You allow Italy the time, possession and 16 chances that we allowed ukraine and I can tell you we will not be keeping a clean sheet. The quality of opposition goes to another level now and the difference in strikeforce and ability to finish chances increases dramatically with Italy. England have got away with giving continual chances away because they've been playing poor teams ranked 50th in the world who have no strikers. Now we have to face Balotelli & Di Natale......

[GSC]

Generally if a shots fired and 3 England defenders are between ball and goal, then yeah its a fair shout that it'll be blocked.

I suppose we differ since you seem to count every shot as a chance

[JamesLincs]

france 14th, sweden 17th.. hardly 50th? it was a comfortable win for england. most of those 16 chances were long range efforts

[Guest]

Generally if a shots fired and 3 England defenders are between ball and goal, then yeah its a fair shout that it'll be blocked.

Like what happened when David Silva scored against Ireland last week

Go back and watch Cricket!

[JamesLincs]

ukraine were more of a threat than sweden and france but like them ukraine couldnt create anything clear cut. the 3 goals weve conceded were 2 set pieces and a 20 yard drive

[Guest]

Ukraine had 11 shots off target.

4-5 on another day?

Without Shevchenko they had nothing.

The stat that counts.....England 1-0 Ukraine

[JamesLincs]

Ukraine had 11 shots off target.

4-5 on another day?

Without Shevchenko they had nothing.

The stat that counts.....England 1-0 Ukraine

tells you all you need to know, i expect most of them were the 25 yarders that sailed into the top of the stands

[GSC]

The exception rather than the rule I think you'll find.

[mystiroakey]

Generally if a shots fired and 3 England defenders are between ball and goal, then yeah its a fair shout that it'll be blocked.

Like what happened when David Silva scored against Ireland last week

Go back and watch Cricket!

john chill yourself pal.. the fact is there is no cricket on today. But maybe you should actually watch it yourself

[GSC]

Wish there was some cricket today :/

[Guest]

Milevskiy 8 goals in 49 appearances
Devic 2 goals in 24 appearances

And someone is trying to claim they would score 4-5 yesterday?

Got to love optimism

[GSC]

Ukraine had 11 shots off target.

4-5 on another day?

Without Shevchenko they had nothing.

The stat that counts.....England 1-0 Ukraine

tells you all you need to know, i expect most of them were the 25 yarders that sailed into the top of the stands

No they were all chances. Can't see how we'll beat Italy if we allow 10+ long range attempts.

[Guest]

I know you dont want to talk about the negatives but it could have easily been 3 or 4. Failure to accept that just sums up the majority of people on here with very blinkered vision.

Without shevchenko they had nothing........they still got the ball over our line if i rememeber, fluffed a 5 yrd header, had hart in all kinds of trouble with a 25 yrder.......obviously no threat at all and a comfortable win for england that was never in doubt. absolute jokers . I cant see Pirlo, Balotelli & Di Natale being so forgiving

[JamesLincs]

apparently

[GSC]

Ball over the line thanks to some questionable refereeing.

The header I'll give you.

Upon further viewing, 25 yards is generous, more like 30-35. And it was right at Hart, and he parried rather than catching because of the movement. Didn't have him in 'all kinds of trouble'.

More petty insults.

[Guest]

I know you dont want to talk about the negatives but it could have easily been 3 or 4. Failure to accept that just sums up the majority of people on here with very blinkered vision.

Without shevchenko they had nothing........they still got the ball over our line if i rememeber, fluffed a 5 yrd header, had hart in all kinds of trouble with a 25 yrder.......obviously no threat at all and a comfortable win for england that was never in doubt. absolute jokers . I cant see Pirlo, Balotelli & Di Natale being so forgiving

You can't quite grasp that teams actually create chances against England and this spells defeat?

[GSC]

And yeah, good teams will create chances.

No **** really?

[Guest]

And yeah, good teams will create chances.

No **** really?

I don't buy into that.

England don't allow chances. If they do they will lose.

[Crimey]

I know you dont want to talk about the negatives but it could have easily been 3 or 4. Failure to accept that just sums up the majority of people on here with very blinkered vision.

Without shevchenko they had nothing........they still got the ball over our line if i rememeber, fluffed a 5 yrd header, had hart in all kinds of trouble with a 25 yrder.......obviously no threat at all and a comfortable win for england that was never in doubt. absolute jokers . I cant see Pirlo, Balotelli & Di Natale being so forgiving

Not every shot on goal is a chance.

You could argue that Rooney had 2 or 3 chances to score, so it would have been 3-3. Both teams missed chances. Only one team took theirs. That's what is important.

[GSC]

Typical blinkered England fan

Morons all of you.

[JamesLincs]

ashley coles chance too

[Guest]

Typical blinkered England fan

Morons all of you.

No your the Moron!!!

I keep telling you, Ukraine should've won 14-3 according to stats.

[GSC]

Italy conceded 9 chances to the 10 men of Republic of Ireland

Gonna go put a tenner on 5-5

[GSC]

Typical blinkered England fan

Morons all of you.

No your the Moron!!!

I keep telling you, Ukraine should've won 14-3 according to stats.

Its still counts even if he missed the target

[JamesLincs]

5-5 is 1/14, so no point :/

[Guest]

Ireland should've won 9-2!

[EnglishReign]

Stop moaning, John.

[GSC]

Its funny, Ireland would've only just beat Spain if all their shots were goals

[Leff]

To understand the English, Azania, you need to realise that some of the things we value highly are to show spirit, determination and courage. We are at our best when our cause is at its most desperate. A bloody-minded refusal to accept defeat until the final whistle blows is also a very English characteristic. As fans, as long as our team shows those qualities, then we can handle disappointment. We don't like losing, but we've experienced it often enough not to let it destroy us. We'll be back.

So you can hit on England for not having those graceful qualities of style, panache and flair, but think on the words of Shakespeare's King Hal:

We are but warriors for the working day, our gayness and our gilt are all besmirched by painful marching in the rainy field, but by the mass our hearts are in the trim.

That's where we're coming from. That's the people we are. Take it or leave it.

.

I agreed with your comments about team spirit, manager, and goalie, and reality. I am not sure about the bloody-minded refusal to accept defeat. I am English. I agree with Roger Waters when he wrote:

Hanging on in quiet desperation
Is the English way

[mystiroakey]

"To understand the English, Azania, you need to realise that some of the things we value highly are to show spirit, determination and courage. We are at our best when our cause is at its most desperate. A bloody-minded refusal to accept defeat until the final whistle blows is also a very English characteristic. As fans, as long as our team shows those qualities, then we can handle disappointment. We don't like losing, but we've experienced it often enough not to let it destroy us. We'll be back."


I like that post Jen.. it somes it up well.

[eirebilly]

ive only watched parker as a spurs player, and youll never see him take the ball forward, just isnt in his game. his passing can be off at times, but youll rarely see him give it away. he should just keep hold of the ball, deep in midfield until he can find gerrard with it.

I just dont see the point in that, to me he was a wasted player for large periods of the game with his little 2mtr passes here and there. I have lost count of the amount of times in the first half that he passed back to Terry only for Terry to make an excellent pass. Isnt he in the side for his passing ability? I have yet to see any of it at this tournement. Great club player but looks very nervous and out of his depth at International level.

no offence, but that might be a reason why were still in the tournament, and youre not.. infact, it is! our game has been based on a solid defence, and parker is that first line of it, and a bloody effective one at that! he has been absolutely battered so far, and still looks like a poster boy. he might not be an effective attacking threat but his job title is defensive midfielder!!

Ok, you have a point there. I just see the DM position as also being a distributer of passes and one that should be getting a team moving in the right direction as well. I have not seen that. Last night Terry, after Parkers back passes, was available to put in several passes to the midfield and attackers and he is a center back.
Parkers defense has been very solid but he has also done no feeding. Far too often i saw too many 2mtr passes sideways followed by back passes to Terry or Heart. If a DM is only there to defend then all well and good but i thought that was a CB's role. I was led to believe that a DM was to be the first line of defence but also be a midfielder with good passing and linking ability. My bad.

[JamesLincs]

thats fair enough bill

i guess we will call him a defensive defensive midfielder

[eirebilly]

I rate the guy James, i really think that he should have been introduced to International football years ago. I even had him down as captain over Gerrad. Just think that he has been way too defensive and has not given England any direction. It may be a gameplan because he plays so much better for his club.

[Liam]

Parker has done everything asked of him. His defending has been first class if you ask me and has been responsible for allot of the oppositions attacks breaking down. Yes he doesn't spray the ball around the park but that's not his game, that's where Gerrard comes in as he showed last night, and Rooney to a lesser extent when he drops deep. I still think Carrick should be there as he's the only England midfielder who plays a purely passing game if you know what i'm trying to say but that's another debate.

[GSC]

Hes an honest trier with average football ability. Its not a bad thing, you know what you'll get from him, but we can do better.

[Josiah Maiestas]

England would have won easier had they selected Carroll, Rooney played at Heskey levels last night.

[eirebilly]

I just think that he has a better game than that which he has shown thats all. The CB Terry has made more defense splitting passes and given England more direction than the DM in Parker. Its ok getting tackles in, which he has done, but he sits way too dep and leaves a gap between in the midfield which teams have exploited.

To me, Welbeck and Parker were very weak links yesterday.

[Josiah Maiestas]

James Milner was immense last night, Barcelona have called and apparently its true, he has Barca DNA.

[two_tone]

John has to be the biggest boo baby I have encountered on here, just be glad England topped the group and get behind them. It's almost as if you want them to fail.

[Crimey]

If Terry can make those passes, then it isn't as big of a deal that Parker can't.

Also, I've noticed that the reason they are 2 metre passes is because a lot of the time they are to Gerrard who makes himself available so he can make the pass.

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