Euro 2012: Day 12 Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Sweden v France (ITV 4, 19:45)
England v Ukraine (ITV 1, 19:45)

Current Group Standings:

France - 4
England - 4
Ukraine - 3
Sweden - 0


If points are level, sorting criteria is thus:

Equality of points after the group matches
8.07 If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the
following criteria are applied, in the order given; to determine the rankings:
a) higher number of points obtained in the matches among the teams in question;
b) superior goal difference in the matches among the teams in question (if MORE
than two teams finish equal on points);
c) higher number of goals scored in the matches among the teams in question (if
MORE than two teams finish equal on points);
d) superior goal difference in all the group matches;
e) higher number of goals scored in all the group matches;
f) position in the UEFA national team coefficient ranking system (see Annex I,
paragraph 1.2.2);
g) fair play conduct of the teams (final tournament);
h) drawing of lots.

And this is what each team needs to do:

France (v Sweden)
Win - Secures qualification. Top spot depends on the result between England and Ukraine. If England also win, top spot goes to the team with the superior goal difference.
Draw - Secures qualification. Will still progress as group winners if England v Ukraine ends in a draw courtesy of their superior goal difference over Roy Hodgson's men.
Lose - Through as second-placed team if England beat Ukraine. If England and Ukraine draw, France will still qualify courtesy of their better head-to-head record against the co-hosts. If both England and France lose the team which has the superior goal difference between the pair will qualify.

England (v Ukraine)
Win - Secures qualification and they will progress as group winners if France fail to beat Sweden.
Draw - Secures qualification and they will progress as group winners if France lose to Sweden. If both final group games end in a draw, France will qualify as group winners courtesy of their superior goal difference over Roy Hodgson's men.
Lose - Out if France win or draw against Sweden. If both England and France lose the team which has the superior goal difference between the pair will qualify.

Ukraine (v England)
Win - Secures qualification. They will qualify as group winners if France fail to beat Sweden.
Draw - Out.
Lose - Out.

Sweden (v France)
Already eliminated.

Final day of the group stages, we have 6 teams through to the Quarters, 2 teams will join tomorrow. Sweden are already out courtesy of losing to the Co-Hosts and England. Ukraine need a win against England to qualify, nothing else will do and on their home patch they will be feeling confident. England only need to avoid defeat and they will make it to the quarters, whether they will make it to top spot or not depends on the French game and how many goals England can score with a certain Wayne Rooney back in the team (of course England could make it through with a defeat but that's a pretty unlikely scenario in which Sweden will need to beat France by a bigger margin than Ukraine beat England). For France, avoiding defeat will guarantee them qualification, a defeat and they will need to rely on England drawing or beating the Ukraine. And similar to England, they could make it through with a defeat.

Winners of Group D will face Italy.
Runners Up of Group D will face Spain.

Come on England!

[mystiroakey]

All I keep hearing is 'england are the best team without the ball'......load of rubbish! If we allow Italy or any decent team the amount of time, possession and chances that we allowed Ukraine then we will be going home. Our play is negative, lifeless and it's like watching paint dry but that's the only way we can play with the players available. I just think the QF is going to be too big a step up in class because Italy have naturally gifted finishers something we havent really had to face in my opinion in a poor group.

Welbeck & Young were poor tonight and I would probably go with Carroll especially as Chiellini is missing so someone will come in with a lack of match sharpness at the back for Italy. I don't like the England tactics there appaling but are understandable.

Prediction - Very close but Italians may edge it or possible penalties because of negative tactics and good defences on both sides

firstly i havent heard anyone ever say that?

[GSC]

What chances did we allow Ukraine?

The offside goal that never was?

One of numerous shots from outside the box into a crowd of defenders?

Believe it or not you have to attack and defend in football. Theres a reason Argentina never threatened in the WC despite such talents as Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Higuain, Lavezzi etc

[mystiroakey]

but in fairness- we probally are

[GSC]

The comms said it towards the end of the game Myst. England are one of the best defensive teams in the tourny, embrace it.

(We also had the 2nd most goals in the group stage behind Spain iirc).

[azania]

az, leff, nore staat.. time to stfu, youre boring everyone here

Go forth and multiply you female genitalia. People have opinions and are entitled to express them. If you don't want to read it, put me on your foe button.

[azania]

Interesting that England's best players have been their defenders. Says a lot about the type of anti football England play.

[mystiroakey]

we can defend and we are clinical- its what i said before the tourny and nothing has changed

[mystiroakey]

well one things for sure JT has been on the money- but i would actually say the one man midfield that is stevie g- has been our best!

[Guest]

What chances did we allow Ukraine?

There are some seriously stupid people on here! What chances?????????? OH MY DAYS!

.............and yes I've heard alot of people say it (I heard, not you.....it's not just about you on here mysterioakey and your fan club)

England against Ukraine were shocking without the ball, failure to accept this just sums you up. On another night that could of been 4 or 5 for Ukraine.

[Hero]

Right guys and gals, please hush on the personal jibes and telling others to stfu etc.

Polite warning the first time round, won't be quite as polite if I have to do it a 2nd time

[mystiroakey]

Your depressing john nite nite(and wrong)

[Guest]

Your never wrong thats your problem

[mystiroakey]

No i am just a fan. and knew the way were gonna play in this tourny-Why get so depressed after playing the way we do when we all knew we were gonna play this way. I am just happy aboutthe win thats all- You never are.

would you rather we lose so you can be proved right?

[Hero]

Thought some of you may find this amusing (and hopefully lighten the mood!)

Spoiler:

[azania]

Thought some of you may find this amusing (and hopefully lighten the mood!)

Spoiler:

[JamesLincs]

whatever tbh. i absolutely second what mysti says

if we played attacking in the 3 games, we'd be out. play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths

[mystiroakey]

Thats a good look for JT

[azania]

whatever tbh. i absolutely second what mysti says

if we played attacking in the 3 games, we'd be out. play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths

Like this post, it bores the living daylights of people watching it.

I hope England come out and actually play football as opposed to a rear guard battle. This is a game not Somme.

[mystiroakey]

whats somme az.

anyway what are your thoughts on bolateli

[GSC]

What chances did we allow Ukraine?

There are some seriously stupid people on here! What chances?????????? OH MY DAYS!

.............and yes I've heard alot of people say it (I heard, not you.....it's not just about you on here mysterioakey and your fan club)

England against Ukraine were shocking without the ball, failure to accept this just sums you up. On another night that could of been 4 or 5 for Ukraine.

This seems to be a theme of yours.

>Make a comment
>When called out on it, insult the other poster and offer no actual evidence to support the point.

If you plan on actually backing up your point then kindly do so, otherwise I'll know to disregard your 'opinion' as merely trying to get a raise out of people.

[GSC]

Somme was a battle in the first world war iirc.

[mystiroakey]

i am wonderng were these chances were - i can remember one header. the non goal was offside- england scored a goal and also had a clear header.

[mystiroakey]

so it was a battle- strange comment from Az considering he actually wanted carnage to kick of in this euros over football!!

[JamesLincs]

its no wonder we fail at football with people like you. youre the type of person who plays and goal hangs arent you.. play 0-0-10 formation.

[Guest]

whatever tbh. i absolutely second what mysti says

if we played attacking in the 3 games, we'd be out. play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths play to your strengths

Not an original idea to contribute - seconding someone else's comments with multiple repetitions - with a first comment that tells other people, who were making an effort to contribute to the banter, to STFU. It seems to me you have difficulty engaging in debate.

[GSC]

England frustrate teams to potshots outside the area which more often than not get blocked or result in an easy Hart save. Granted Nasri popped one in, but that was more a failure of England to close down.

Sweden's 2 goals came from a set piece and the other was incredibly scrappy.

Ukraine couldn't break us down without ref help.

[JamesLincs]

no, ive actually been out and just scanned the topic on my arrival home, and decided id had enough of the negativity. im a very happy england supporter this evening. we will probably need to do more if we want to progress further in the tournament, but i dont have many complaints so far

[azania]

whats somme az.

anyway what are your thoughts on bolateli

Good footballer but a tool and liability.

[azania]

so it was a battle- strange comment from Az considering he actually wanted carnage to kick of in this euros over football!!

What the hell are you talking about? When did I want carnage. Please do not take my words out of context.

[azania]

its no wonder we fail at football with people like you. youre the type of person who plays and goal hangs arent you.. play 0-0-10 formation.

You fail at football because your over hyped players are just that; over hyped. You guys never control the game and hope to win via set pieces and defensive errors. When was the last time England controlled a game or even had more posession that a top tier team? Never is when.

[azania]

no, ive actually been out and just scanned the topic on my arrival home, and decided id had enough of the negativity. im a very happy england supporter this evening. we will probably need to do more if we want to progress further in the tournament, but i dont have many complaints so far

Its not negativity. Its a reality. Greece won the damn thing playing anti football and boring the crap out of europe. That's what England intend to do.

[mystiroakey]

yawwnnn

[mystiroakey]

england v sweden= by far the best game in the tourny.. but we bore. i am kinda confussed pal

[azania]

Football wise it wasn't. For excitement it was. Then again you can get excitement in the blue square league.

[mystiroakey]

you said bore, so you associate exitement with boredom then .

you got to start choosing your insults abit better i feel.

[mystiroakey]

been watching abit of ibraham v france- top player as i felt he was v england- but that england did so well(esp terry) to keep him quiet..

top player. and france didnt have zee minerals to cope with him.Sweden should be kicking themselves- they should have turned up v ukraine and they would have been through.

something intersting to note about the goal that wasnt due to it being offside

If it had gone in and ukraine had gone on to win the game 2-1..

ukraine and england would have gone through- it helped france out more than england in the theoritcal world that it should have been a goal

[GSC]

Total football is at home.

The last Germany Spain game finished 1-0 due to a Puyol header from a corner.

You have to defend as well as attack. As an attacking force England are sub par, but as a defensive group they're up there.

[GSC]

I'd also like to point out only Spain scored more than we did so far.

[Jennifer1984]

[quote="azania"]

its no wonder we fail at football with people like you. youre the type of person who plays and goal hangs arent you.. play 0-0-10 formation.

You fail at football because your over hyped players are just that; over hyped. You guys never control the game and hope to win via set pieces and defensive errors. When was the last time England controlled a game or even had more posession that a top tier team? Never is when.[/quote]


So, England score from set pieces and defensive errors, eh..? Well, there's no law against that.

I agree though, that we don't control games in the way we'd like and we do give possession away far too easily. There's no disputing that. In my opinion, England are probably only slightly more likely to win this tournament than Greece, and that's about it. But all the time you're still in the hat.......

I've been impressed with Hodgson so far. As a manager, he has united a disparate squad and has actually got a bunch of guys who looked as if they didn't give a damn in South Africa two years ago, to show a bit of pride in playing for their country again. Steven Gerrard has led by example and has looked positively Robson-esque at times. We now have a goalkeeper who inspires confidence and a team that, although they are more like piano shifters than piano players, at least play now like a competitive unit.

If you said that none of those things are enough... that a team needs quality and skill to win a tournament..... then I would agree with you. Frankly, I don't think the things I described in the paragraph above are enough. If England were to somehow work their way past Italy in the QF, then I'm quite sure the Germans would be take great delight in despatching us in the Semis. They have a word for that: Schaedenfreud. It means to take pleasure in any disappointment or hurt that is experienced by others.

Do Germans like beating England..? You betcha.

So I'm not optimistic about our chances of progressing further. Having said that, I.... and many others.... didn't expect England to make it out of the group, let alone win it. That we have done so is an achievement in itself.

To understand the English, Azania, you need to realise that some of the things we value highly are to show spirit, determination and courage. We are at our best when our cause is at its most desperate. A bloody-minded refusal to accept defeat until the final whistle blows is also a very English characteristic. As fans, as long as our team shows those qualities, then we can handle disappointment. We don't like losing, but we've experienced it often enough not to let it destroy us. We'll be back.

So you can hit on England for not having those graceful qualities of style, panache and flair, but think on the words of Shakespeare's King Hal:

We are but warriors for the working day, our gayness and our gilt are all besmirched by painful marching in the rainy field, but by the mass our hearts are in the trim.

That's where we're coming from. That's the people we are. Take it or leave it.


.

[Soldier_Of_Fortune]

People who don't know Az, he gets his kicks from winding people up and having a convenient polar opposite opinion on a vast amount of topics. Am sure that this is his fetish

Am the pessimistic England fan, but I have been encouraged to what I have seen so far. We are not world beaters and our usually high expectations have been lowered which has taken pressure off the players and shows in there performances.

Worst teams have won this tournament then this England one, if we can keep things tight and continue to take our chances, who knows could happen! But lets take it one game at a time.

I think he should start Carroll and Rooney upfront against Italy

[Duty281]

England also have a few players on a yellow, Milner, Young, Ox, Gerrard and Cole.Which might cause selection problems if any of them get another v Italy.

"If" we go through.

Cards get wiped after the groups

[eirebilly]

I have finally watched the match. Massive congrats to England on topping the group. Many feared that they may not get out of it but they have done very well. I feel that they can beat Italy as well.

A few glaring things for me. Parker was never in the game and gave England absolutely no direction (except maybe backwards) and it wasnt until Gerrard started to take the game on that England looked better.

Welbeck was also never in the match and should be replaced by Carroll for the Italians. The balls in were there but the arial threat was not present.

Alot having a go at Rooney, he looked very rusty early on but got into the game and looked more assured. His goal was alot more than a simple tap in, it was a true poaches goal and he was right in there. His movement before hand to get the goal was brilliant which is why no defenders were near him to challenge him. Play him off Carroll against Italy and England will be fine.

Milner, thought he did ok if i am honest but i can see many reasons for Walcott starting ahead of him.

The Goal from Ukraine, the offside early ignored but it was still very difficult for the man on the line to tell i feel. Very close and unfortunate for the Ukraine but i am not going to vilify the man on the line as it was at full speed and hard to tell. Easy to say after watching repeats that it was a goal, yet another reason for Goal line tech.

All in all, England fans have every right to feel happy and confident. I have seen alot of pride in the English players this tournement than i have seen for a long time. Good luck the them

[Thomond]

England struggle to control the game in terms of possession against weak teams, against greater teams they will give up chances. I think England are essentially Greece in 2004. Very solid defensively, not great attacking ability.

They could beat better teams but they will need a slice of luck. England aren't setup defensively (a la Greece) but they struggle to retain ball, Ireland are also guilty of attempting to hit the miracle pass (we don't hit it often), the key difference between Ireland and England in the tournament is England have made little errors. Ireland are out of the tournament as they made numerous errors that all lead to goals. England were expected to get through the group, they should have, it was easy as.


You should be happy and even somewhat confident. Italy are a decent side but not great. Heck Ireland even troubled them for a decent period of the match. Good luck to them (technically I shouldn't say that as I'm Irish but sure feic it)

[Postie]

England also have a few players on a yellow, Milner, Young, Ox, Gerrard and Cole.Which might cause selection problems if any of them get another v Italy.

"If" we go through.

Cards get wiped after the groups

I've read it's after the Q/F's, so that if any of the above get a yellow v Italy they would miss the S/F (should we progress).

[JamesLincs]

ive only watched parker as a spurs player, and youll never see him take the ball forward, just isnt in his game. his passing can be off at times, but youll rarely see him give it away. he should just keep hold of the ball, deep in midfield until he can find gerrard with it. it may sound biased but i feel parker frustrated the ukraine crowd well

postie's right i think, ive also heard or read that it wont be until after the quarter finals, so any booking received against italy for those already on yellows will miss the semi finals should we get through

[eirebilly]

ive only watched parker as a spurs player, and youll never see him take the ball forward, just isnt in his game. his passing can be off at times, but youll rarely see him give it away. he should just keep hold of the ball, deep in midfield until he can find gerrard with it.

I just dont see the point in that, to me he was a wasted player for large periods of the game with his little 2mtr passes here and there. I have lost count of the amount of times in the first half that he passed back to Terry only for Terry to make an excellent pass. Isnt he in the side for his passing ability? I have yet to see any of it at this tournement. Great club player but looks very nervous and out of his depth at International level.

[Guest]

What chances did we allow Ukraine?

There are some seriously stupid people on here! What chances?????????? OH MY DAYS!

.............and yes I've heard alot of people say it (I heard, not you.....it's not just about you on here mysterioakey and your fan club)

England against Ukraine were shocking without the ball, failure to accept this just sums you up. On another night that could of been 4 or 5 for Ukraine.

This seems to be a theme of yours.

>Make a comment
>When called out on it, insult the other poster and offer no actual evidence to support the point.

If you plan on actually backing up your point then kindly do so, otherwise I'll know to disregard your 'opinion' as merely trying to get a raise out of people.

England got opened up on numerous occasions and it was worryingly easy at times. The goal off the line, the 5 yard header a baby could of scored, the shot from the left winger that hart just saved the two last ditch block tackles from parker that were going in etc

Against better opposition and not the 55th best team in the world with poor strikers that could of been 3 or 4 easily. That's the evidence to support my view, however you probably missed that like you seem to miss anything the opposition does. You lot are an embarrasment! Graeme Swann stick to cricket mate cos you definitely were not watching the england game last nite.

[mystiroakey]

One thing i allways notice about parker is that he gives it 100% and he gets battered for the cause. In a way similar to milner- however i feel more effective. He is playing like a slightly advanced defnder for me- blocks alot of shots and runs himself ragged.. Certainly part fo the reason why the opoosition is allways taking long range shots against us

[GSC]

The goal off the line was offside so logically that should never have counted anyway.

So those 2 tackles by Parker weren't actually chances then?

The shot from 25 yards?

You tried, but no.

[GSC]

Personally I've never rated Parker, an honest trier.

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