How can Wales beat Australia next week?

First topic message reminder :

It is obvious what happened yesterday.

Wales massively underestimated Australia and didn't expect them to play as intelligently, pacey and intensely as they did. I don't think Wales would have been complacent, but due to Oz injuries I don't think Wales expected them to play as well as they normally do.

Wales made so many mistakes due to the sheer speed and intensity of the Os assault and phase play. I've never seen the ball recycled so quickly. Genia was passing it back out almost as soon as the ruck was created. That is what Wales are not doing and need to replicated. I was mortified to see Phillips slow once again and watch a try scoring opportunity goto waste in the first half due to not being quick enough or paying attention to the ball in the ruck.

Instead of grabbing the game by the scruff. Wales were always waiting to see how Oz would play and what they would do first. How many times did we see them simply track Genia to see if he made a pass before thinking about tackling him. Just get stuck in and tackle him whatever happens. Welsh players should be confident in the abilities of the players outside them to make the tackle if they commit to tackling Genia and co and he offloads. It is far worse to not commit the tackle and then he does a sidestep or gains another 10/20 yards.

Not enough pressure was but on Berrick Barnes and too often the outside backs had an easy platform. Tackling overall was really poor compared to the Six Nations. Genia skinned too many players and I've said time and time again that James Hook cannot tackle well when he players anywhere other than 10. The last try was a textbook move and nobody even tried to tackle him. It was worse than South Africa's winning try in the World Cup.

We must not kick possession away unless the ball lands in their 22 or we get a lineout. Australia are so good at counter attacking it is pointless giving away possession. They can't score without the ball and we should be confident enough in our forwards that we can keep possession and not give away the ball or a penalty. Rustyness was an overall factor in the performance and I don't think there should have been a BaaBaa's fixture and the whole squad should have been Oz together for 10-14 days before the first test.

Look at replays again I think I was too harsh on Priestland. That pass from Warburton was ridiculous. Wales panicked too much yesterday. There was no need to panic and throw a feeble pass, just like JD2's run at 78 minutes where he fluffed it up due to panicking. Starting Hook at 10 is not a good idea. Priestland just needs to calm down and think about what he's doing more. Cut out the poor tackles and kick more intelligently.

Losing George North could have cost Wales the match he is so strong and a massive attacking threat. If he is fit next week then we must get the ball to him and Cuthbert as much as possible.

Genia and Barnes need to be target by Phillips and Warburton. The forwards need to be FAR more aggressive. Everyone goes on about the pack as being Australia's weak point, but their counter rucking was insane. We need
to get our forwards in a nasty frame of mind and really fight back next week.

Just read that Faletau is out. Blessing in disguise maybe after yesterdays performance?

TEAM FOR NEXT WEEK:

1. Jenkins
2. Owens
3. Jones

4. AWJ
5. Evans

6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Jones

9. Phillips
10. Priestland

11. North

12. Beck
13. Davies

14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Paul James
17. Matthew Rees
18. Bradley Davies
19. Justin Tipuric
20. Rhys Webb
21. James Hook
22. Scott Williams / Harry Robinson

I said in the build up that the Aussie front five wasn't going to be the push over it was 4-5 yrs ago.

I think we had the better of them but they more than held their own enough for their back row to win that area.

Benn Robinson makes a huge difference to their front row, more often than not he at least gains parity.

Aus with their weak tight 5 manage to pull one out of the hat on a semi regular basis against NZ and SA - why wouldn't they be able to beat anyone else. It's not like NZ and SA have particularly weak forwards.

Aussie team is:

15. Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW Waratahs)

14. Cooper Vuna (Melbourne Rebels)

13. Rob Horne (NSW Waratahs)

12. Pat McCabe (Brumbies)

11. Digby Ioane (Queensland Reds)

10. Berrick Barnes (NSW Waratahs)

9. Will Genia (Queensland Reds)

8. Wycliff Palu (NSW Waratahs)

7. David Pocock (captain, Western Force)

6. Scott Higginbotham (Queensland Reds)

5. Nathan Sharpe (Western Force)

4. Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds)

3. Sekope Kepu* (NSW Waratahs)

2. Tatafu Polota Nau (NSW Waratahs)

1. Benn Robinson (NSW Waratahs)

Run on Reserves:

16. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)

17. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)

18. Dave Dennis (NSW Waratahs)

19. Michael Hooper (Brumbies)

20. Nic White (Brumbies)

21. Anthony Fainga’a (Queensland Reds)

22. Mike Harris (Queensland Reds)

Horne did nothing last week (other than butcher a try) and should be gone. I'd bring AAC to 13 and put Morahan at the back. Vuna did a couple of good things and chased well but he's a liability in defence. I'd sleep better knowing Shipperly was on that wing.

I'd sleep better with you or me on the wing FC! They will get some change down his line eventually.

Quoting Deans... “Cooper did well, and he will have learned a lot from that experience". Really Dingo, did he somehow learn how to tackle or catch a high ball? Apparently test matches are a great place to work on your frailties.

Same team as last week. Not sure why they didn't bring in some players from their no.1 side that played Scotland.

Yes, you're right BC, those debutantes that couldn't perform in a category 5 cyclone should never be allowed near a test again. Shipperly might be more orthodox but he can catch, tackle, pass, and he's quick.... Vuna on a good day can manage 2 of those.

FC. It's all part of a plan so cunning you pin a tail on it an call it an Aussie. He still has plans to be an AB's coach. By keeping the numbers of Kiwis in the team up he's preparing himself culturally for what he sees as his enevitible return.

Some of his choices over the years with the Wallabies makes you wonder if his heart's in it. If we lose this series or do poorly in the 4N I think his inevitable return might be sooner than later.

I don't think Wales will make any changes to the team. Though hopefully there will be some changes made to tactics and the result.

A win is not impossible but to come back when one test down is a big ask. Wales are a better team than last Saturday, Australia don't have much more in them.

Genia and Pocock might not have much more in them but god help me if the other 13 don't.

Full Credit wrote:Genia and Pocock might not have much more in them but god help me if the other 13 don't.

The 3rd test if Beale's fit could be an interesting contrast.

I've put up the matchday sticky thread: https://www.606v2.com/t30827-australia-vs-wales-2nd-test-teams-and-live-match-thread and I'll add the Welsh team when it's named.

maestegmafia wrote:I don't think Wales will make any changes to the team...

Apart from Faletau the Tongan Welshman who break a rib.

Australia don't have much more in them.

Some time I wonder if the "village idiot" tag come from a place of wisdom. Those words are not advisored in the face of history.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I don't think Wales will make any changes to the team...

Apart from Faletau the Tongan Welshman who break a rib.

Australia don't have much more in them.

Some time I wonder if the "village idiot" tag come from a place of wisdom. Those words are not advisored in the face of history.

Coming from the English 'Kazakstanian' that's rich. And he broke his hand

Red_Dragon_Spirit wrote:

biltongbek wrote:I think the reality Wales needs to face is the six nation champions (of which they were three times in the recent past) have come south for some time struggling to win here.

Being grandslam champions doesn't give you the devine right to win here. You need to lift to another notch which no champion in the past have been able to do for the last ten years, apart from the odd win here and there.

There is still much work to do.

We had a decent RWC, very good 6n's and all of a sudden a series demolition of Oz was on the cards (fans and media)!

I totally agree, some need a reality check. One step at a time, we have shown we can compete, but we need to step up our commitment at the breakdown and generally focus on the the basics. We're not far off, but off we are.

Spot on. It was always going to be a big ask but doable

Full Credit wrote:Horne did nothing last week (other than butcher a try) and should be gone. I'd bring AAC to 13 and put Morahan at the back. Vuna did a couple of good things and chased well but he's a liability in defence. I'd sleep better knowing Shipperly was on that wing.

Wouldn't have Vuna or Horne in the side. Deans' tendency to "reward" the run on side because they won a game, ignores the opportunity to make a few changes to improve things. Horne is one of Robbie's pets so he is untouchable at least until Beale, O'Connor and Cooper. With those 3 in the side Wales would not have a realistic chance. However, they are not there which gives Wales a good shot as the backline is still very pedestrian with the exception of Genia and Ioane.

The weak link for OZ will be 13 and Vuna's wing. For Wales to win they should be attacking down that side at every opportunity. Wales will also need to pick up their pace -they were definitely off the pace, like Ireland against the AB's.

My prediction is Wales will be better, but I think OZ should be a lot better, given they now they have a week to prepare with a settled group. Wales are a young side and will be interesting to see how they handle the pressure in a game they simply have to win. OZ by 8.

Dingo's definitely missed a trick here. Wales will do their homework and see how awful Vuna's positional play and defence was and target him as you say. In one passage of play he missed 2 or 3 tackles on the same bloke! I also think that thing he does where he's sort of tackled then crawls forward another metre or 2 is going to come back to bite him.

Horne should be booted out of the team (he should never have been in there in the first place) on principle for trying to hog the glory and costing us a try.

I also can't believe we don't have a specialist lock on the bench given how iffy Sharpie and Simmons looked, and a prop (in Alexander) that continues to make our scrum look weak but far be it for me to question the infinite wisdom of Deans.

Vuna really should not be in there - he's Ugo Monye-esque in his limited skillset (head down and run, can't align defensively, average vision at best, bad hands) and the Wallabies just don't need him.

Word is that Gatland has flown/is flying over to Aus from NZ for the 2nd test.


North and Williams should be fine and Tipuric is in hot contention to take Sam's starting place

For me, I didn't see Wales far of the mark against Australia in the last match. They were within one point in the last quarter of the match. The match was on a knife-edge right there. Just a little adjustment here and there is all that's needed for them. I think Ryan Jones will help at 8.

I think this match will be played at a faster pace overall than the first one and should be great fun to watch.

Ryan, Ianto and AWJ will make a big difference, more abrasive and a better platform giving the backs more time - we take it to them and see what happens. 2 very evenly matched teams but we need to get Aus on the back foot

Agree. And a bit more push upfield with the ball from the forwards, especially the back row will go a long way. I know they carried a lot in the last match but didn't really gain much yardage. Just little things.......

There's also talk of switching Sam to 8 and Tips starting at 7 - he's on brilliant form. Worked for the Scots. We just need a downpour too...

munkian wrote:There's also talk of switching Sam to 8 and Tips starting at 7 - he's on brilliant form. Worked for the Scots. We just need a downpour too...

Unlikely since it's undercover. Maybe for the last one in Sydney you might get rain.

Wales just need a bit more of that Ospreys winning mindset

Warburton at 8 and Tipuric at 7 could and would work i reckon. The way Warburton carries the ball is more like an 8 than a 7 anyway imo. Faletau was basically invisible in the last test so it probably wouldn't hurt.

We shouldn't be looking to outmuscle the Aussies anyway, that's not our style. We need to compete at the breakdown, keep up with the pace of play and when the ball gets out to the backs they need to run at space instead of into players, without Jamie it just doesn't work.

We don't need rain, we need to believe in ourselves - a lot of doom and gloom from a sluggish first test in which we were 20-19 down and blew a golden opportunity via Priestland dropping the ball. No need to be too drastic, those players mentioned above will provide a better platform and we should start better. We are good enough to beat this good Aus side irrespective of the weather.

It would help though

I know, I was just beign glib as the Scots used two 7's to good effect and the weather too.

The only thing wales need to do differntly is hit the rucks harder and clear out. the breakdown was what lost us that game. Not because of the ref either. Because we were just too sluggish. Get that dynamic rucking back and I think we'll have the front foot ball we need

O and first up tackles as well. Haven't seen Wales defend that badly since before the world cup

How can Wales beat Aus?


Get the ball boy from the Wal v Ire match,.

Play them at another sport, they might win a football match

Try and get an Aussie or two sent off.

duh good one HERSH.

Classic

Thats some classic Hersh right there, comedy gold.

Don't give up the day job. Oh, you don't appear to have one....

One thing I would say is everyone keeps mentioning the downpour and the conditions Scotland had to play in. Heavy rain wouldn't have saved Welsh bacon on Saturday since you got stomped up front.

Playing with two 7s on the pitch is a good start, Warbs is a big lad and will carry well at 8 but it's perhaps a risky move to put an untested 8 (at international level) into a game against the Ozzies.

The rain helped Scotland by grounding some of their backs but lets not beat about the bush the Ozzies hammered Wales upfront and Phillips had a day to forget and was made to look like an ammateur by Genia.

Wales can still win this test series IMO but they can't allow themeselves to be bossed at the breakdown like they were on Saturday. I have often been critical of Andy Robinson's decisions for selecting the Scotland team as of late but having 2 world class 7s against 1 in our match with Austrialia was enough to allow us to outgun them at the breakdown which in turn starved them of quick ball and the terrible conditions nulified their backs even further.

Win the breakdown contest and you'll win the match. Your best bet for that is playing Tipuric and Warbs at the same time.

munkian wrote:Thats some classic Hersh right there, comedy gold.

Don't give up the day job. Oh, you don't appear to have one....

Same as some of those Welsh boyo's then, I thought they were meant to be professional players!

Can we stick to legitimate rugby talk instead of baiting and wind ups please?

Does anybody really think that Wales will move Sam to 8 ? I would have thought that we had two ready made 8s with Delve and Ryan, who IMO has had an awsome season for both the Os and Wales. I can understand that keeping Ryan on the bench gives us cover for the second rows as well as 6 and 8 but the lack of carries last Saturday was shocking and surely that has to be addressed and starting with your biggest pack might help us boss the contact area and slow Genia down from the base.

Does anyone think Hook will start at 10 or will Wales stick with Priestland and does the lack of 10 cover (ie leaving Biggar behind) show the coaches (I'm assuming Howley and co as Gats isn't about) are a bit naive?

ystradosprey wrote:Does anybody really think that Wales will move Sam to 8 ? I would have thought that we had two ready made 8s with Delve and Ryan, who IMO has had an awsome season for both the Os and Wales. I can understand that keeping Ryan on the bench gives us cover for the second rows as well as 6 and 8 but the lack of carries last Saturday was shocking and surely that has to be addressed and starting with your biggest pack might help us boss the contact area and slow Genia down from the base.

Does anyone think Hook will start at 10 or will Wales stick with Priestland and does the lack of 10 cover (ie leaving Biggar behind) show the coaches (I'm assuming Howley and co as Gats isn't about) are a bit naive?

Your missing the point. I'm not saying move Warburton to 8 because he is a better option at 8 the current Welsh alternatives. I'm saying move Warburton to 8 so you can have another specialist Fetcher on the pitch to win the battle at the breakdown.

They talk the talk yet they have yet to walk the walk

It's more like a walkabout!

Radge, I understand that having two sevens may have the benefit of messing up the breakdown but playing at 8 is different to 7. Has Sam played 8 recently for the blues either in the Hcup or in the Rabo? In any case if Wales kick as loosely to the Aussies as they did last week the whole backrow will be busy and will be grateful for two opensides on the pitch.

HERSH wrote:They talk the talk yet they have yet to walk the walk

It's more like a walkabout!

Why is it you like Wales more than your native team? England have problem large they must deal with that initially. England six nations very poor many lucks against Scotland and Italy.

Wales extremely strong beat each team well.

Wales should stick with Priestland and give him another chance with first team 2nd rowers in place and a more powerful allround unit - Centres need to defend better

1. I want Wales to beat Australia and i tipped them to do so in the series 2-1.

Wales can beat Australia only if and when they grow a pair and believe that they will beat Australia in Australia.

It is a psychological issue with them. That is what i believe.

That might sound harsh but there it is.

Grand Slam Champions - come on! Just DO IT!

It's a tough one to call. I do think it wuld be worth the risk though, as good as Warbs is I think he really struggled with Pocock, would Rennie or Barclay have struggled alone against him? I'm not sure and to be honest we'll never know now.

To get parity at the breakdown Pockock has to be neutralised. Do that and you neutralize Genia as well who'll be starved of quick ball.

Genia looked brilliant against Wales because he got an armchair ride through the whole match. Against Scotland the conditiions and the pressure he was under from the Scottish Forwards and Mike Blair meant he struggled. I could say the same for the way Austrlaia got bossed by the Irish in thr RWC. Ferris scragging Genia and dragging him back 5 meters sticks out.

pierre_sucermabitevoustas wrote:

HERSH wrote:They talk the talk yet they have yet to walk the walk

It's more like a walkabout!

Why is it you like Wales more than your native team? England have problem large they must deal with that initially. England six nations very poor many lucks against Scotland and Italy.

Wales extremely strong beat each team well.

Welcome to 606v2

Did England have a very poor 6 nation?

Anyway back on topic, as a proud Brit I'd like to see Wales win in Aus, who wouldn't unless you were an Aussie.

But lets be honest Wales have to win this series and as it stands I don't think they will, they looked under cooked in the 1st game despite all the talk that they were going to hit the ground running.

Aus is a hard place to win and IMO Wales have underestimated the job at hand, I can only see them winning the last test.