Farrell Senior wants out of Sarries, and back into England.

Not sure how I feel about this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2153146/Andy-Farrell-leaves-Saracens-return-England.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Oh man, we're screwed.

With Catt already in the fold as attack coach, might we see Farrell take on just the defensive responsibilities.

alcoombe wrote:With Catt already in the fold as attack coach, might we see Farrell take on just the defensive responsibilities.

I really hope so. I don't want to see him as attack coach, that's for sure!

This is good news, I thought the defence against the Baa Baas was very poor and many ex players and coaches have come out saying that its very hard for someone to coach attack and defence by themselves. During the 6N it was actually Lancaster that oversaw attack while Farrell focused on defence and that gave us a very solid platform. With Catt now in as attack coach, I'd be happy to get our defence back from the 6N.

Happy to have him as defence coach, I wouldn't want him anywhere near the attack!

The defence wasn't as good against the Baabaas but England were missing their entire usual backrow, props and one of their locks. That's a lot of changes to the pack, for that many players in a one off game it's understandable there were a few mistakes.

I can't see Lancaster having specialist attack and defence coaches, he's already said he wants a small backroom staff so sadly I think it will be Farrell in and Catt out.

Farrell has to spend 6 months on sabbatical before taking another job - or his new employers have to pay compensation. That gives Catt plenty of time to impress and secure a long term job - if he wants it.

As to Farrell everything he said when he turned down England to stay at Sarries (even if he did not mean it) are still valid. He is extemely inexperienced and needs more time at club level first.

As Paul Gustard is Sarries defence coach, it would be odd to then hire Farrell to do that job.

Well England's defence frankly looked better than Sarries last season. Unfortunately the attacks looked very similar indeed.

I think SL said he thought a team of 3 might be slightly light in the longterm. So, hopefully we'll end up with separate attack and defence coaches. SL could even consider becoming Manager and appointing a head coach from the group.

Wayne Smith out
Catt in for SA tour only
Farrell junior in
Farrell senior in
Flood out
Kick and defend rugby in
We're boned - goodnight

ps bring jonno back

I'm genuinley surprised!

I was at the Baa'Baa's game and although the back row was looking much snappier on moving the ball around - much better than 6N by a very noticable margin, our defense was definatley lacking.

If Catt shows he can get some effective and innovative fast paced back row action going on, he'll get the attack coach job permanently. Bearing that in mind, i personally wouldn't be adverse to seeing Farrel Snr come in as defence coach, he did a cracking job in that respect for the 6N campaign. In fact, Rowntree/Farrell/Catt - a three man coaching staff (that we know all work well together under SL, bar Catt's on the job interview) that actually want the job and are prepared to put their all into it i'd rather see than mercenaries.

AlastairW wrote:I'm genuinley surprised!

I was at the Baa'Baa's game and although the back row was looking much snappier on moving the ball around - much better than 6N by a very noticable margin, our defense was definatley lacking.

If Catt shows he can get some effective and innovative fast paced back row action going on, he'll get the attack coach job permanently. Bearing that in mind, i personally wouldn't be adverse to seeing Farrel Snr come in as defence coach, he did a cracking job in that respect for the 6N campaign. In fact, Rowntree/Farrell/Catt - a three man coaching staff (that we know all work well together under SL, bar Catt's on the job interview) that actually want the job and are prepared to put their all into it i'd rather see than mercenaries.

As I can't open the link, I'm assuming there's a lot of supposition in this because as AW says above, Farrell would make a fantastic full time defensive coach and I can't believe even our out of touch RFU would allow it to be leaked that the man just landed in SA as attack coach is out of work when he returns.....surely?

If you look back at the original interviews when the interim coaching team was announced, they actually said that Farrell would focus on defence and Lancaster would lead on attack. I'd say that means that Farrell did an exceptional job, and Lancaster seems to have acknowledged the need for an attack specialist as well. Good news for England (and Harlequins - with Farrell away from Saracens) I think.

Good news for England (and Harlequins - with Farrell away from Saracens) I think

Not for Quins as defence and lineout guru Gustard is remaining at Sarries. He was the one behind the 'Wolf Pack' mentality and the bullet proof lineout, which are Sarries best weapons along with Farrell Jnrs boot. Kevin Sorrell has apparently taken the backs coaching job so it will be interesting to see he what he does as potentially Sarries could have quite a destructive backline: 9.de Kock, 10.Hodgson, 11.Strettle, 12.Barritt, 13.Tomkins, 14.Ashton, 15.Goode. Bench 21.Wigglesworth, 22.Farrell, 23.Short/Wyles. There's some good options there that were very under used at times this season and if Sarries start being able to score tries through their backline then they could be a very good HEC side indeed.

I wonder what the motives could be. Man declines a full-time England role, remains seemingly loyal and happy with his current post and now resigns out of nowhere.

I'm surprised as I estimated Farrell to be too decisive and firm to give in to second thoughts.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Good news for England (and Harlequins - with Farrell away from Saracens) I think

Not for Quins as defence and lineout guru Gustard is remaining at Sarries. He was the one behind the 'Wolf Pack' mentality and the bullet proof lineout, which are Sarries best weapons along with Farrell Jnrs boot. Kevin Sorrell has apparently taken the backs coaching job so it will be interesting to see he what he does as potentially Sarries could have quite a destructive backline: 9.de Kock, 10.Hodgson, 11.Strettle, 12.Barritt, 13.Tomkins, 14.Ashton, 15.Goode. Bench 21.Wigglesworth, 22.Farrell, 23.Short/Wyles. There's some good options there that were very under used at times this season and if Sarries start being able to score tries through their backline then they could be a very good HEC side indeed.

When they chose to run the ball Sarries were very, very good. As I keep saying that they chose to play consrvatively was dumb and punished them. Too often though Farrell jr was the glue that gummed up attacking moves. The back line above could make life very hard for AP defences and hopefully HC ones too.

Sam - I just meant that Farrell was clearly a major asset to Saracens in general, not that he was specifically responsible for their defence.

Lancaster was the backs coach for the 6 nations. So i'm not sure why everyone is down on Farrel.

Farrel will be the defence coach and will set the tone for the team=gritty.

I thought he was just the backs coach, with responsibility for attack and defence. Certainly England looked remarkably like Sarries in attack (e.g. underwhelming).

DaveM wrote:I thought he was just the backs coach, with responsibility for attack and defence. Certainly England looked remarkably like Sarries in attack (e.g. underwhelming).

That was the assumption, but Lancaster said when the team was announced that he would be taking control of attack.

If so, why has he brought in Catt, who is definitely in charge of attack, as well as having some defensive responsibilities (particuarly from set pieces as I recall)?

The devil may be in the details. Is there a reference you can provide where Lancaster talks about being in charge of the attack?