Appreciating Rocky

First topic message reminder :

Morning

Since this fighter is one of the most beloved/underrated/overrated on the board I'd like to take an opportunity, once and for all , to memorialise some thoughts on him.

From what I've read and learned about Rocky Marciano over the many years in the beginning he was an acquired taste; it took a long time. But, even the sceptics soon become Marciano believers. He apparently was clumsier in sparring than many could imagine a ham-‘n’-egger against most half-decent boxers in the gym wearing his 16-ounce gloves that looked like the fluffy pillows from Debenhams the wife keeps buying for some reason each week. I see the flaws what the doubters see on tape don't get me wrong, but every guy who looked like they boxed rings around him, the ones who pinned his ears back, the ones never missed him with jabs, came out of the ring looking like he was dropped from a 10-story building and landed flat-footed. Rocky's cuffing, pawing, mauling, grazing shots, flicks to the sides when he was tied-up on the inside, impacted them like they'd been bumped by a rhino. From ringside many reporters said when Rocky landed, the only evidence was an "OOPH!" grimace and quiver.

Rocky was ponderous. Fighters could see the punches. They weren't surprised; they were beat down, every sparring partner who looked sensational against him, said the same thing exiting the ring: "I hurt all over." The wonderkinds and Robinson-clones that watched Rocky in the gym or at the Garden and licked their lips at a future match thought of him like cancer: He could only happen to the other guy.

Off a stat sheet, any number of guys now would be favoured over him, but doing it in the ring proved it would be a sobering experience. The lads yesterday Jeff, Windy, Chris etc mentioned how Archie one of the toughest creatures on earth held Rocky in the highest esteem.

There are certain dimensions to his game, that are not immediately obvious, that quickly became apparent to anybody who shared a ring with him from Louis to Ali.

I cant remember who said "it hurt to bump into him", but they probably summed it up best. He could seemingly make an oponent hurt for every second of every round, and he was a lot more unpredictable than people think.

This is one fighter who definitely had the devil inside him.

I tend to rate him in the listings higher than most, Rocky is my number 3, not the most glamorous c.v I accept, however his undefeated feat and winning streak is yet to be replicated in any era at the heavyweights top level, that is proof to me thats how difficult it is.

Thanks and have a great day.

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:Have all modern fighters learned from their predecessors though? Has been pretty much accepted excessive drinking or smoking are bad ideas for an athlete yet Mayorga and Hatton do both to excess.

Is also pretty much accepted carrying excessive weight at heavyweight is hardly conducive with top tier performance but do we see many guys heeding this message. Appreciate these are extreme examples but as Pavlik has proven recently they are not as isolated as we would like to believe. Knowledge is pointless unless there is a geunine will to apply it.

Hatton and Mayorga are admittedly a few trees short of a rain forest. Not all boxers are machine like. They show human frailties. Looking at footages of Greb, to compare him to RJJ in terms of skill is simply laughable. To compare him to a crude brawler like LaMotta is also laughable. Jake would put him away in double quick time. The difference in skill is immense. I made a comparison a while back which was similar to Jukebox's example. I said that Henry Ford will always be one of the best car manufacturers ever. But cars today are better than his Model T.

az, I don't mean to be rude, but it's ignorant, ( in the real sense of the word, not the insulting one, ) to base your opinions of Greb on that silly footage.

There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence that he was a great fighter, some of which I've detailed in my earlier post, above.

Seriously, do you think you know better than Arcel ? He SAW Greb from ringside and still had enough of his marbles to be asked to train Roberto Duran in the '70s.

Again, I'm NOT being rude, but you must, surely, agree that it's pretty arrogant for somebody who has never seen Greb to argue with the opinions of a worldwide acclaimed trainer who DID see him ?

Before you play the ' nostalgia ' card, Arcel reckoned Locche to be a better defensive fighter than Pep, so that won't work.

The old boxing writers/historians make their money off saying things were better in the old days.

Imagine if 'Ray Arcel' said that things were better today and you'd be better off buying books from modern authors who have a better knowledge of the modern game rather than himself. Their views are beyond biased.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:The old boxing writers/historians make their money off saying things were better in the old days.

Imagine if 'Ray Arcel' said that things were better today and you'd be better off buying books from modern authors who have a better knowledge of the modern game rather than himself. Their views are beyond biased.

Well, I don't, and I say, without any hesitation, that Ali is better than Valuev and that Jofre is better than any bantam today.

Have you seen Jofre fight ?

So everyone such as trainers, writers, boxers, referees etc who all agree to a man boxing on the whole was stronger back in the days when fighters were fighting more frequently are all dewy eyed nostalgics. These people who rely for their income on their knowledge and insight into the game all hold opinions that are worthless and biased.

rowley wrote:So everyone such as trainers, writers, boxers, referees etc who all agree to a man boxing on the whole was stronger back in the days when fighters were fighting more frequently are all dewy eyed nostalgics. These people who rely for their income on their knowledge and insight into the game all hold opinions that are worthless and biased.

Exactly, jeff.

They must bow to those who believe that boxing was invented in 1985 and who, for the most part, have never even seen Robinson, Charles, etc.

But they know best.

End of the day Windy I am willing to accept in most walks of life there are folk who know more about things than me. Now I have not been into boxing anywhere near as long as your good self but enjoy reading and am of reasonable intelligence so when I am reading testimonials from the aforementioned guys who I know know more about the game than me I have to start to accept this may be the case, and my veiwing of old timers and research in the subject has to lead me to believe this view is correct.

Trust me as a modern fan I would love this not to be the case because who doesn't want to believe they are living at the zenith of their particular passion but I am afraid it is simply not the case. And while I'm at it It's a Wonderful Life is a better film than Avatar and Exile on Main Street is a better album than Definitely Maybe.

Historian Eric Jorgensen stated, “Greb may have been the greatest fighter, pound-for-pound, who ever lived. Certainly, he was among the top 2 or 3. He combined the speed of Ray Robinson, the durability of Jim Jeffries, the stamina of Henry Armstrong, and the unbridled ferocity of Stanley Ketchel with a will to win unsurpassed in the annals of sport. At his peak, he was unbeatable, defeating virtually every middleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight of his generation. A great, great fighter.”


Heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey said that Greb was “The fastest fighter I ever saw. Hell. Greb is faster than (lightweight champion) Benny Leonard.” In 1920 Greb, who was in training for Billy Miske, sparred Dempsey a few rounds. The sparring sessions were so good that thousands of fans showed up just to watch. According to eyewitnesses Greb “slapped the crouching heavyweight champion around, and bounced away before Dempsey could do more than chicken a punch.” Jack Kearns, Dempsey’s manager, ran Greb out of camp. There was much talk of a Dempsey-Greb match for the heavyweight championship, but it never came off. It seems Jack Kearns was unwilling to take the chance.

“He was never in one spot for more than half a second,” said Gene Tunney, “All my punches were aimed and timed properly but they always wound up hitting empty air. He'd jump in and out, slamming me with a left and whirling me around with his right or the other way around. My arms were plastered with leather and although I jabbed, hooked and crossed, it was like fighting an octopus.”


Of course Tunney, ( who fought Greb and lived till 1978, ) and Dempsey, ( who sparred with him and lived till 1983, ) wouldn't know half so much about Greb as you, would they, az ?

rowley wrote:End of the day Windy I am willing to accept in most walks of life there are folk who know more about things than me. Now I have not been into boxing anywhere near as long as your good self but enjoy reading and am of reasonable intelligence so when I am reading testimonials from the aforementioned guys who I know know more about the game than me I have to start to accept this may be the case, and my veiwing of old timers and research in the subject has to lead me to believe this view is correct.

Trust me as a modern fan I would love this not to be the case because who doesn't want to believe they are living at the zenith of their particular passion but I am afraid it is simply not the case. And while I'm at it It's a Wonderful Life is a better film than Avatar and Exile on Main Street is a better album than Definitely Maybe.

And again, jeff, bang on the nail.

I wouldn't dream of arguing with guys like Arcel, or Joe Frazier, or Dempsey, since those guys would have forgotten more about boxing in five minutes than I'll ever know. At some point we MUST consider the views of experts who saw the oldtimers and the new fighters. Anything else would be absurd.

I find it beyond belief that some can so easily dismiss the views of the most knowledgeable people alive, ( or alive until recently, anyway, ) and expect us to believe that THEY know more.

Sorry, but with due respect, they simply DON'T.

I find it beyond belief that some can so easily dismiss the views of the most knowledgeable people alive,
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Even more remarkable when it is done on the back of watching two minutes of a playful sparring session on youtube.

rowley wrote:I find it beyond belief that some can so easily dismiss the views of the most knowledgeable people alive,
___________________________________________________________

Even more remarkable when it is done on the back of watching two minutes of a playful sparring session on youtube.

Or, in many cases, not watching ANY of the old guys.

azania wrote: Looking at footages of Greb, to compare him to RJJ in terms of skill is simply laughable.

This sentence alone is utterly ludicrous. Give the wind-up a rest, 'cause the longer this thread goes on, the more you make yourself look silly with statements like the above.

Windy

Sorry that that is an extraordinarily silly article. You can pick holes in every boxer who walked this earth. But looking at many old timers, you can drive a truck through the holes in their game.

Commenting on Vargas, saying Holmes drops his left hand after a jab etc. So what. Ali did not have a conventional style. That is what made his great. Oldies (inter war) had a duke em up style. That has changed.

HumanWindmill wrote:Historian Eric Jorgensen stated, “Greb may have been the greatest fighter, pound-for-pound, who ever lived. Certainly, he was among the top 2 or 3. He combined the speed of Ray Robinson, the durability of Jim Jeffries, the stamina of Henry Armstrong, and the unbridled ferocity of Stanley Ketchel with a will to win unsurpassed in the annals of sport. At his peak, he was unbeatable, defeating virtually every middleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight of his generation. A great, great fighter.”


Heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey said that Greb was “The fastest fighter I ever saw. Hell. Greb is faster than (lightweight champion) Benny Leonard.” In 1920 Greb, who was in training for Billy Miske, sparred Dempsey a few rounds. The sparring sessions were so good that thousands of fans showed up just to watch. According to eyewitnesses Greb “slapped the crouching heavyweight champion around, and bounced away before Dempsey could do more than chicken a punch.” Jack Kearns, Dempsey’s manager, ran Greb out of camp. There was much talk of a Dempsey-Greb match for the heavyweight championship, but it never came off. It seems Jack Kearns was unwilling to take the chance.

“He was never in one spot for more than half a second,” said Gene Tunney, “All my punches were aimed and timed properly but they always wound up hitting empty air. He'd jump in and out, slamming me with a left and whirling me around with his right or the other way around. My arms were plastered with leather and although I jabbed, hooked and crossed, it was like fighting an octopus.”


Of course Tunney, ( who fought Greb and lived till 1978, ) and Dempsey, ( who sparred with him and lived till 1983, ) wouldn't know half so much about Greb as you, would they, az ?

I will never deny the greatness of those guys. Likewise I can never deny the greatness of Henry Ford as a car manufacturer. But to compare a Model T to even a Fiesta is laughable.

azania wrote:Windy

Sorry that that is an extraordinarily silly article. You can pick holes in every boxer who walked this earth. But looking at many old timers, you can drive a truck through the holes in their game.

Commenting on Vargas, saying Holmes drops his left hand after a jab etc. So what. Ali did not have a conventional style. That is what made his great. Oldies (inter war) had a duke em up style. That has changed.

Don't mention Joe Louis.

azania wrote:Windy

Sorry that that is an extraordinarily silly article. You can pick holes in every boxer who walked this earth. But looking at many old timers, you can drive a truck through the holes in their game.

Commenting on Vargas, saying Holmes drops his left hand after a jab etc. So what. Ali did not have a conventional style. That is what made his great. Oldies (inter war) had a duke em up style. That has changed.

Not nearly so extraordinarily silly as building your argument WITHOUT WATCHING ANY OF THE FIGHTS.

The very fact that you spout nonsense about the ' duke 'em up ' style tells me that you haven't seen these fighters and your opinion is, therefore, not an informed one.

Robinson, ' duke 'em up ' ? Armstrong ? Charles ? Louis ? Walcott ( !!!! ) ? Benny Leonard ? Tunney ?

az, go watch the fights. This is pointless until you do. It's like my telling you all about your home town when I've never been there.

rowley wrote:End of the day Windy I am willing to accept in most walks of life there are folk who know more about things than me. Now I have not been into boxing anywhere near as long as your good self but enjoy reading and am of reasonable intelligence so when I am reading testimonials from the aforementioned guys who I know know more about the game than me I have to start to accept this may be the case, and my veiwing of old timers and research in the subject has to lead me to believe this view is correct.

Trust me as a modern fan I would love this not to be the case because who doesn't want to believe they are living at the zenith of their particular passion but I am afraid it is simply not the case. And while I'm at it It's a Wonderful Life is a better film than Avatar and Exile on Main Street is a better album than Definitely Maybe.

rowley. In all honesty, you are windy are incredibly more knowledgable in boxing, its history etc that I will ever be. That's a given. "Things were better in my days" argument I always take with a pinch of salt. I say it to my son. He will say it to his son and so forth. But who suggest that Greb, who can barely hit a speedball without pausing to control it every so often, can beat RJJ, SRR, Hopkins is laughable. Its not just that you tube footage of Greb I have seen.

Yes he was great. He was extraordinarily great in his time. Today he wont be competitive. A man born with his natural talents fighting in today's game would be unbeatable.

The thing I love with this bigger better faster stronger argument is we only apply it when it suits. If we accept boxing has progressed along such radical lines it stands to reason Ali would not stand a chance in the ring with Valuev and Robinson would be chased out of the ring by Berto or Pavlik and Arnmstrong would not make it to the first bell with Junior Witter.

Seriously does anyone really genuinely believe this!!!

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:Windy

Sorry that that is an extraordinarily silly article. You can pick holes in every boxer who walked this earth. But looking at many old timers, you can drive a truck through the holes in their game.

Commenting on Vargas, saying Holmes drops his left hand after a jab etc. So what. Ali did not have a conventional style. That is what made his great. Oldies (inter war) had a duke em up style. That has changed.

Not nearly so extraordinarily silly as building your argument WITHOUT WATCHING ANY OF THE FIGHTS.

The very fact that you spout nonsense about the ' duke 'em up ' style tells me that you haven't seen these fighters and your opinion is, therefore, not an informed one.

Robinson, ' duke 'em up ' ? Armstrong ? Charles ? Louis ? Walcott ( !!!! ) ? Benny Leonard ? Tunney ?

az, go watch the fights. This is pointless until you do. It's like my telling you all about your home town when I've never been there.

Nope. I haven't mentioned SRR et al having a duke em up style. Look at old Jack Johnson fights. The level of skill is beyond belief compared to today's game. There is no comparison.

Ali, SRR etc would be better fighters than the extra god fighters they were. It shows how far they were in their sports that they would dominate the game in any era. SRR at WW though and not at mid as Hagler, RJJ, Hearns would give him a very serious argument.

Az what is also worth remembering is Johnson's style was also dictated by the fact fights were over 20 or 25 rounds. Would guess were you to schedule todays fights over this distance you would see a shift in style.

OK even to take Robinson out of the equation I can watch Pavlik and then watch Tony Zale and I can't see any way on this earth Pavlik wins that one, surely if boxing has progressed at such breakneck speed a decent champion such as Zale should have not a chance against a decent champion from this era.

rowley wrote:The thing I love with this bigger better faster stronger argument is we only apply it when it suits. If we accept boxing has progressed along such radical lines it stands to reason Ali would not stand a chance in the ring with Valuev and Robinson would be chased out of the ring by Berto or Pavlik and Arnmstrong would not make it to the first bell with Junior Witter.

Seriously does anyone really genuinely believe this!!!

It's modern nutrition, jeff.

I know. I went to the supermarket today and bought a bottle of chin toughener, half a pound of elbow blocking capsules, a dozen feint bars, a packet of uppercut cookies and a courage supplement.

Look out Wlad, is all I can say.

HumanWindmill wrote:

rowley wrote:The thing I love with this bigger better faster stronger argument is we only apply it when it suits. If we accept boxing has progressed along such radical lines it stands to reason Ali would not stand a chance in the ring with Valuev and Robinson would be chased out of the ring by Berto or Pavlik and Arnmstrong would not make it to the first bell with Junior Witter.

Seriously does anyone really genuinely believe this!!!

It's modern nutrition, jeff.

I know. I went to the supermarket today and bought a bottle of chin toughener, half a pound of elbow blocking capsules, a dozen feint bars, a packet of uppercut cookies and a courage supplement.

Look out Wlad, is all I can say.

Pity the budget wouldn't run to some upper body movement cream as well Windy, you'd have been all set for a glittering career

So, Az: based on your assumption that modern is best, what are your thoughts on Van Gogh, Rembrandt, Michelangelo, Velasquez and Caravaggio? Surely they aren't a patch on the likes of today's artists, right? What with the advances in paint and brush technology...

BALTIMORA wrote:So, Az: based on your assumption that modern is best, what are your thoughts on Van Gogh, Rembrandt, Michelangelo, Velasquez and Caravaggio? Surely they aren't a patch on the likes of today's artists, right? What with the advances in paint and brush technology...

Pah, give me Tracy Emin any day. I'll take Westlife over the Stones whilst I'm at it.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:Windy

Sorry that that is an extraordinarily silly article. You can pick holes in every boxer who walked this earth. But looking at many old timers, you can drive a truck through the holes in their game.

Commenting on Vargas, saying Holmes drops his left hand after a jab etc. So what. Ali did not have a conventional style. That is what made his great. Oldies (inter war) had a duke em up style. That has changed.

Not nearly so extraordinarily silly as building your argument WITHOUT WATCHING ANY OF THE FIGHTS.

The very fact that you spout nonsense about the ' duke 'em up ' style tells me that you haven't seen these fighters and your opinion is, therefore, not an informed one.

Robinson, ' duke 'em up ' ? Armstrong ? Charles ? Louis ? Walcott ( !!!! ) ? Benny Leonard ? Tunney ?

az, go watch the fights. This is pointless until you do. It's like my telling you all about your home town when I've never been there.

Nope. I haven't mentioned SRR et al having a duke em up style. Look at old Jack Johnson fights. The level of skill is beyond belief compared to today's game. There is no comparison.

Too right. Johnson could feint.

Watch Joe Gans, Gene Tunney, ( we won't say Dempsey, since we'll be here for a month of Sundays, ) Jim Driscoll, Benny Leonard, Mickey Walker, the TECHNIQUE of Jack Sharkey - notwithstanding that he wasted it - Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Kid Chocolate, Joe Louis, Armstrong, Charles, Walcott, Pep, Robinson. Have a look at jeff's man, Burley.

How many of these have you seen ?

rowley wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

rowley wrote:The thing I love with this bigger better faster stronger argument is we only apply it when it suits. If we accept boxing has progressed along such radical lines it stands to reason Ali would not stand a chance in the ring with Valuev and Robinson would be chased out of the ring by Berto or Pavlik and Arnmstrong would not make it to the first bell with Junior Witter.

Seriously does anyone really genuinely believe this!!!

It's modern nutrition, jeff.

I know. I went to the supermarket today and bought a bottle of chin toughener, half a pound of elbow blocking capsules, a dozen feint bars, a packet of uppercut cookies and a courage supplement.

Look out Wlad, is all I can say.

Pity the budget wouldn't run to some upper body movement cream as well Windy, you'd have been all set for a glittering career

Sold out, jeff. Some guy called Sam Peter bought it.

Ha, ha would guess even at your advancing years his need is greater than yours

rowley wrote:Ha, ha would guess even at your advancing years his need is greater than yours

I think so, jeff.

Having said that, az has very good upper body movement, from what I hear. He sways from side to side constantly.

Perhaps it's not just his arguments that are unbalanced.

rowley wrote:The thing I love with this bigger better faster stronger argument is we only apply it when it suits. If we accept boxing has progressed along such radical lines it stands to reason Ali would not stand a chance in the ring with Valuev and Robinson would be chased out of the ring by Berto or Pavlik and Arnmstrong would not make it to the first bell with Junior Witter.

Seriously does anyone really genuinely believe this!!!

I'm talking generally here. Obviously not every champion today will beat every champion in the 1940s and 1950s. But most will.

Az mentions youtube footage of Greb, I was of the belief that no footage of Harry existed?

azania wrote: I'm talking generally here. Obviously not every champion today will beat every champion in the 1940s and 1950s. But most will.

What absolute twaddle - there is no evidence whatsoever to back up that statement.

Fists of Fury wrote:Az mentions youtube footage of Greb, I was of the belief that no footage of Harry existed?

There is 'sparring footage', Greb working out and Greb hitting the speed ball. Nothing of his fights.

Fists of Fury wrote:Az mentions youtube footage of Greb, I was of the belief that no footage of Harry existed?

Just a bit of training footage, Fists, but az can mysteriously piece together an authoritative appraisal of a two hundred fight career from that.

Yes, he's THAT good. Gene Tunney, eat your heart out. azania knows better than you do. You just fought Greb, after all, whereas az has watched three minutes of horseplay on a nice, shiny, MODERN TV.

Oh I see, will have to check that out, not that I expect it to offer too much of a glimpse as to his fighting genius, but it'd be nice to see something, nevertheless.

So, going by Az's assumption, we can suggest that Spadafora is light years ahead of a certain Floyd Mayweather Jr, based on sparring reports, then?

Fists of Fury wrote:So, going by Az's assumption, we can suggest that Spadafora is light years ahead of a certain Floyd Mayweather Jr, based on sparring reports, then?

45-0>41-0, simples.

rowley wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:So, Az: based on your assumption that modern is best, what are your thoughts on Van Gogh, Rembrandt, Michelangelo, Velasquez and Caravaggio? Surely they aren't a patch on the likes of today's artists, right? What with the advances in paint and brush technology...

Pah, give me Tracy Emin any day. I'll take Westlife over the Stones whilst I'm at it.

Well, exactly. Gimme the latest Bieber over some fusty old Brahms any day of the week.

az, simple questions. We won't go too far back and include fighters you've never seen, so :

Which of today's lightheavies is better than Charles ?

Which middle better than Monzon ?

Which welter better than Robinson ?

Which lightweight better than Duran ?

Which feather better than Pep ?

Which bantam better than Jofre ?

Which flyweight better than Canto ?

BALTIMORA wrote:So, Az: based on your assumption that modern is best, what are your thoughts on Van Gogh, Rembrandt, Michelangelo, Velasquez and Caravaggio? Surely they aren't a patch on the likes of today's artists, right? What with the advances in paint and brush technology...

Oh jeez.

At least use boxers who were fighting in the same year Windy. Even the best year loses to the greatest of all time in each division.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:Windy

Sorry that that is an extraordinarily silly article. You can pick holes in every boxer who walked this earth. But looking at many old timers, you can drive a truck through the holes in their game.

Commenting on Vargas, saying Holmes drops his left hand after a jab etc. So what. Ali did not have a conventional style. That is what made his great. Oldies (inter war) had a duke em up style. That has changed.

Not nearly so extraordinarily silly as building your argument WITHOUT WATCHING ANY OF THE FIGHTS.

The very fact that you spout nonsense about the ' duke 'em up ' style tells me that you haven't seen these fighters and your opinion is, therefore, not an informed one.

Robinson, ' duke 'em up ' ? Armstrong ? Charles ? Louis ? Walcott ( !!!! ) ? Benny Leonard ? Tunney ?

az, go watch the fights. This is pointless until you do. It's like my telling you all about your home town when I've never been there.

Nope. I haven't mentioned SRR et al having a duke em up style. Look at old Jack Johnson fights. The level of skill is beyond belief compared to today's game. There is no comparison.

Too right. Johnson could feint.

Watch Joe Gans, Gene Tunney, ( we won't say Dempsey, since we'll be here for a month of Sundays, ) Jim Driscoll, Benny Leonard, Mickey Walker, the TECHNIQUE of Jack Sharkey - notwithstanding that he wasted it - Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Kid Chocolate, Joe Louis, Armstrong, Charles, Walcott, Pep, Robinson. Have a look at jeff's man, Burley.

How many of these have you seen ?

Johnson would faint if he fought Vit or Wlad, nevermind Haye. Even Audley (pushing here) would be dominant then if he were transported back in time.

Guys, I'll respond later. I have my lawyers ready for legal action against you all if you guys get me fired from work by forciing me to respond.

And if Mrs Az files for divorse I'm taking legal action.

azanias ten best heavies :

Wlad Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko
Nikolai Valuev
Ruslan Chagaev
Oleg Maskaev
Sultan Ibragimov
David Haye
John Ruiz
Sam Peter
Lamon Brewster

Just missing the cut : Evander Rolywheel, George Formby, Sonny Piston, Joe Glazier and Katie Holmes.

azania wrote:And if Mrs Az files for divorse I'm taking legal action.

She tells me she won't, but she's surprised you can put such effort into this argument. Says it's not like you to keep anything going this long...

Even Audley (pushing here) would be dominant then if he were transported back in time
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I am assuming the same person who perfects time travel also masters chin transplants, because when Fitz or Jeffries connect on Audley anywhere above the knees he is going to sleep.

BALTIMORA wrote:

azania wrote:And if Mrs Az files for divorse I'm taking legal action.

She tells me she won't, but she's surprised you can put such effort into this argument. Says it's not like you to keep anything going this long...

You've been speaking to her?

Want me to answer that, Windy?

Which of today's lightheavies is better than Charles ? None

Which middle better than Monzon ? None

Which welter better than Robinson ? None

Which lightweight better than Duran ? None

Which feather better than Pep ? None

Which bantam better than Jofre ? None

Which flyweight better than Canto ? None

Don't get me wrong, we have some outstanding fighters, particularly in the shape of FMJ and Manny Pac, who I believe would give anybody an argument in the history of the sport, but I just see Robinson having too much in all departments for the two of them, far too much of a complete fighter.

HumanWindmill wrote:azanias ten best heavies :

Wlad Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko
Nikolai Valuev
Ruslan Chagaev
Oleg Maskaev
Sultan Ibragimov
David Haye
John Ruiz
Sam Peter
Lamon Brewster

Just missing the cut : Evander Rolywheel, George Formby, Sonny Piston, Joe Glazier and Katie Holmes.

Dont forget the legend that is manfredo who would school Robbo.

azania wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

azania wrote:And if Mrs Az files for divorse I'm taking legal action.

She tells me she won't, but she's surprised you can put such effort into this argument. Says it's not like you to keep anything going this long...

You've been speaking to her?

Yeah, I'm her divorce lawyer.