US Golf fans not as knowledgeable as UK golf Fans?

Colin Montgomerie has said golf fans in the United States are "not as knowledgeable" as those in Britain.

The 48-year-old Scot told BBC Radio 5 live he regretted his infamous run-in with the crowd at the 1997 US Open and blamed himself for the incident.

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“I made a mistake and answered back and I paid for it for about 10 years”

Colin Montgomerie
But he added: "I don't think the golf fans in America are members of golf clubs in the way they are here.

"At Wentworth next week, most of the fans will be golfers and understand and respect the etiquette of the game."

Montgomerie, runner-up at the US Open on three occasions, said he now enjoyed playing in the United States but that his reaction to abuse from the crowd at Congressional in 1997 had cost him "most of [his] career".

"The abuse from the American fans was my fault," he said.

"I regret one particular moment when I was leading the US Open in 1997 at Congressional and I did the unthinkable and answered back.

"I was the biggest [European] threat, and I was leading at the time and I got the abuse because of it.

"I made a mistake and answered back and I paid for it for about 10 years."

Admitting that he had sworn at a spectator, he added: "Somebody said the wrong thing at the wrong time, I'd just made a bogey, and I answered back and that was that.

"I enjoy going back now and there's more respect for me there now than there ever was before.

"But it cost me about five or seven years over there, which when you think there's three major championships there, tends to cost you most of your career."

Montgomerie, who has never won one of golf's four major championships despite five second places, says he envies Northern Ireland's Rory McIlroy for having got over that hurdle so early in his career, winning last year's US Open at just 22.

And he has words of caution for two of the UK's other leading golfers, Lee Westwood and Luke Donald, neither of whom has yet won a major despite having both been world number one.

"I had an opportunity [at the US Open at Pebble Beach] in 1992 when I was Rory's age [Montgomerie was 28] and it didn't happen and of course the pressure is then on, as has happened with Lee Westwood and is happening with Luke Donald.

"They need to break through now. Lee's 40 this year and you don't often improve over 40. Once he [wins a major] I think the floodgates will open, and I think he deserves one."

Speaking in Ryder Cup year - the 2012 competition takes place at Medinah Country Club in Illinois from 25-30 September - Europe's victorious captain from Celtic Manor two years ago says he "loves" the competition.

Named coach of the year at the 2010 BBC Sports Personality of the Year Awards, the Scot's record of 23.5 points is third on the all-time Ryder Cup list, while he has never lost in eight singles matches.

"I don't know what it is with me and the Ryder Cup," he said. "I much prefer being part of a team rather than an individual set-up."


Source bbc sports web page

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/18101061


so what do we think, and is there any truth in the sentiments of Monty?

Just to get the ball rolling I think monty is talking out his A hole as usual. As the contributors from the US on this site prove there are as many knowledgeable fans in the US as in the UK. If anything golfs more prominent media status in the US should ensure a slightly greater proportion of the casual fans are better informed than in the UK.

Sounds like fair comment to me. In Europe we are more aware of what is going on on both tours . I don't think many Americans give two hoots about our tour, and in general any player who isn't an American, in fact, Can American's actually watch the European Tour on TV? I'll doubt it even registers in their newspapers either.

In short, Europeans probably have a better understanding of the global game, while American coverage is broadly insular and protectionist.

Plenty people on both sides will have good and bad knowledge, but I think we have a better understanding of the game globally over here.

Super

The golf channel show the european tour.

Mac, I can only think of SR as an American who knows much about the game. Simba/Keizo/Max was a raving lunatic.

What about kwini, 1grumpy, gpb, rob etc?

Sorry kwini, but your current golf education must be mostly gained from resources available to those living in the US.

Kwini isn't an American. Don't know the others I'm afraid.

the average european golfer can tell you a bit about the US tour whearas i dont think the opposite is the case.
i dont think this is a golf thing though, its common across all sports.

hend085 wrote:the average european golfer can tell you a bit about the US tour whearas i dont think the opposite is the case.
i dont think this is a golf thing though, its common across all sports.

sums it up perfectly, plus they can probably pronounce the players names and get their nationalities right more often too.

Montgomerie got razzed over here when he was a threat to win - "there's more respect for (him) now than there ever was before" because he won't win.
Two facts that he glosses over: Feherty was the catalyst for crowds heckling Montgomerie and idiots like Miller jumped on the bandwagon so that, between them, they created a caricature that, sadly, Montgomerie lived up to.

Monty never "had an opportunity" to win the 1992 US Open, it was out of his hands, he being an early finisher in strong winds while plenty of others (including Slu and Kite who overhauled him) were still out on the course. His best chance in his earlier years was the 1994 US Open play-off and the 1995 PGA where he was beaten by Elkington in a play-off.


Would never say that American golf fans are better or worse than those elsewhere, though it's more likely that casual fans in America attend tournaments and become over-lubricated and behave poorly. Not quite the same thing.

I certainly feel as if opinion-makers in the media are very parochial over here, to an often nauseating degree. But are British media types immune from that? Maybe not - and the display of the British Press in Faldo's post-Valhalla news conference was borderline abusive.

I get the impression Monty is making excuses for why he never won a Major. He's saying an incident cost him 5-7 years in America and implying that this is why he could not win a Major during that time. However I put it to him that a Major champion must overcome these type of obstacles if he wants to succeed. Maybe this speaks to some mental weakness Monty has, but I remember Retief Goosen was subject to dog's abuse during the 2004 US Open and still managed to win.

He didn't say 'nobody in the US knows anything about golf' did he?

He was commenting on the difference of the makeup of the galleries in the US and in the UK. He's saying there tends to be a lot more 'non-golf' types that go to events in the US.

At no point in the article does he actually criticise the American fans.

The headline is actually only very tenuously linked to what the article is about, but I guess it's there to get people emotional and it seems to have worked.

Bit of an unjustified headline (probably for purposes of sensation / controversy).

Even if it was directed at that guy who shouts "GET IN THE HOLE!" (or "MASHED POTATO!" or whatever).

"I don't think the golf fans in America are members of golf clubs in the way they are here.

"At Wentworth next week, most of the fans will be golfers and understand and respect the etiquette of the game."

That statement clearly implies the same is not true in the US, suggesting it is not the case in the US that most fans understand and respect the customs of the game.

So he thinks most european fans are knowledgeable but most US fans are not.

No Mac, he's simply saying that Europeans understand better how to BEHAVE at a Golf Tournament in part due to the way people are brought up in golf clubs where the importance of manners and etiquette are central.

McLaren wrote:What about kwini, 1grumpy, gpb, rob etc?

Sorry kwini, but your current golf education must be mostly gained from resources available to those living in the US.

Just like Kwini, I'm an ex-pat. Besides that's a very weak argument if you include me in it. I rarely watch pro golf other than the majors. I'd rather play golf during that time than spend hours watching it.

Probably explains my urine poor performance in Venice's fantasy league

"No Mac, he's simply saying that Europeans understand better how to BEHAVE at a Golf Tournament in part due to the way people are brought up in golf clubs where the importance of manners and etiquette are central. "

When I have children, I can assure you they will be in serious trouble if they behave in any way like someone who frequents golf clubs.

McLaren wrote:"No Mac, he's simply saying that Europeans understand better how to BEHAVE at a Golf Tournament in part due to the way people are brought up in golf clubs where the importance of manners and etiquette are central. "

When I have children, I can assure you they will be in serious trouble if they behave in any way like someone who frequents golf clubs.

Why Mac, he's talking about how to behave in public, with manners and decency and that Europeans are more inclined to do so.
Would you rather the spawn of your illegal relationship with teenage minors shout "GETINDAHOLE" instead?

Super

You will find that people in the US are in general a lot more polite than many european countries.

That may well be true, but we are talking about how people behave at golf tournaments.

Americans can be a bit rowdy at golf tournaments where the accepted norm is civility and decorum. Don't see that there is any harm in saying that,

The average American golf fan is no better or worse than the ones anywhere else in the world, but some Americans think it is their right to have that 5 seconds of fame by either a shouting out after every shot, or trying to get their face on camera at every opportunity.

Thought Monty was his own worse enemy when playing in the states, that dour look and that awful glare of his was like a red rag to a bull to the Americans, and has been already pointed out the commentators would blow it out of proportion as only they can.

Monty at his peak was a world class golfer, but not winning a major, will always be a blight his golfing career.

Born and Bred in the good ole USA.

For the most part, I think Monty is correct. A lot of out fans are not knowledgable but that is simply a case of numbers, fringe fans. With a bigger population, we have the potential for more outliers.

Last week, there were fans yelling "Light the Candle" and "Mashed Potatoes" whatever that means. Maybe a natural consequence of "You da man" and "Get in da Hole".

But we have never had a streaker on the 18th hole of major championship.

Tournament gates are not determined by being a percentage of the population.
Spectators are limited whatever country you are in and will be broadly the same as you can only get a certain amount of people on a course, statistically there is no reason why there should be more people (retards) shouting 'mashed potatoes' or something equally unfunny just because America has a larger population than Britain.
I think its just more in the American 'culture' to be vocal, loud and attention seeking. Not necessarily a bad thing, but somewhat at odds with what we've grown up with in the UK.

In my experience, broadly speaking, Americans are politer than Europeans, or at least most European nations. But whether that carries forward to golf spectator etiquette is a different matter.
I used to think the Brits were a well mannered nation, not any more to be honest.

Agreed diggers, Britain is certainly going downhill in that respect, you are right about less excitable behaviour at golf tournaments over here though.
Americans are polite, but certainly like the sound of their own voice and the needless whooping and pointless exclamations are really irritating, not from a manners point of view, simply that it's rubbish and embarassing.
I'd find it very hard to hear 'getindahole' every time I tee'd off if I was a pro in America and not have an Eric Cantona type attack on the crowd.
It amazes me that no one tells them to shut up or that their own shame doesn't stop them. It is beyond unfunny, but then again the 'golf boys' and 'friends' are deemed humorous in America so perhaps its rib ticklingly funny to shout 'mashed potato'

I really dont mind the fans yelling when the players hit a shot, whats wrong with just messing around a little. I am sure their mates think it is funny and if that helps them have a good time then so be it.

As for drinking beer at golf tournaments, I would be surprised that anyone didn't given the chance. Golf needs to get over itself and realise that it has to accept whatever fans it has, after all they are lifeblood of the sport.

You are a strange one mac, on one hand you're in favour of tradition and golf being played like it was in 'the good old days' while on the other hand you welcome inbred retards shouting unfunny and stupid things post shot.

I don't believe in silence at golf, but some of the things shouted are just preposterous, embarassing, infantile, absurd and thoroughly deserving of a cleaved skull from a three iron. It isn't about having fun, its simply so these mentally challenged moonshine swilling fat jocks can a) say they've done it or b) listen out for themselves on tv highlights.

It's almost as if a mental hospital is on a day out to a golf tournament.

Listened to Monty's ramble on 5Live and, for me, he's just not likeable one iota. Everything he says comes across as some sort of self-justification for something or other and he always seems somewhat up himself. I loathe his way of talking and his body language as well but that's probably just me.
He may have a point re. some U.S. golf fans but they're a very small minority and there's plenty of boorish idiots in the U.K. too.

"I loathe his way of talking and his body language as well but that's probably just me."

No, I also hate it, he talks as if he is some great thinker who we should all listen to.

navyblueshorts wrote: and there's plenty of boorish idiots in the U.K. too.

Quite true. Just not so many at golf tournaments. Which brings us back to the point Monty was making.

Tiger Woods has said before that British golf galleries have a better appreciation of good shots than their american counterparts, think it was during one of the Opens. Apparently you only need to get the ball airborne in the States to receive huge cheers and applause. In the UK applause is reserved for shots that deserve it.

I used to golf with a guy who would say great shot about 1 second after i hit the ball, before he knew where it was going to end up. highly irritating!

Reminds me of a horrible little merde I've played with in medals before. Every time you hit a decent shot, he would say "shaat" in a terrible faux-american accent.

incontinentia wrote:

I used to golf with a guy who would say great shot about 1 second after i hit the ball, before he knew where it was going to end up. highly irritating!

Haha. Yeah, that's annoying. Particularly when it's not a good shot, bet you feel like battering him.

It's like when you play pool and your opponent congratulates you on a good game when you're lining up a tricky black, but that's all unhand mind-games.

It's like when people shout "well out" when someone hacks it out of a bunker, nowhere near the pin. They should just shout "Out"

From a golf fan and an American, here's my observation on Monty:

I watched him in his heyday just mop up on the European Tour. Then I watched him take apart many a Yank in the Ryder Cups -- both here and in Europe.

But his lack of a major and an "official" US win (I do recall he did win a tournament over here, but maybe it was the silly season) are certainly a gap in his otherwise impressive resume.

At times, he seems to hear the clouds banging overhead. His most devastating loss has to be the US Open at Winged Foot. He had the island of Manhattan to the left of that pin, but chunked short right. And, for all his "links" expertise, surprised he never held the claret jug.

I do recall he made fun of shorts and sandal wearing Yanks ... but I would challenge him to try and watch a golf tournament in person in the Mid-Atlantic in June, July or August. I was at Oakmont in 07 and it was brutal (especially since the members denuded the course of any shade trees).

Montgomerie's a berk, just likes to listen to his own voice and his own opinions, not to mention his own version of history.

Not sure he'd ever style himself a links specialist, but talking of Oakmont reminds one of his first significant US exposure, at Oakmont in 1994 when he sweated through his play-off with Els and Roberts, his unsightly bloated frame dressed in dark colours, all the better to accentuate the negative.

Great golfer all the same.

In one of the World atlas of golf editions there is a picture of monty (on the 5th???) playing the walker cup at pine valley. I always think that would have been a pretty cool event to attend.

I wonder how monty got on?

Anyway, given that experience and playing college golf in the US - at Houston Baptist University - he must have had a lot more early exposure to golf across the pond than many a european of his time. I wonder why it hampered instead of helping him?

Mac,
I'm sure Feherty's cheap-laugh caricatures of Monty were instrumental in opening the floodgates as far as making it OK to ridicule and abuse him, in the press and on the course.
And then he somewhat lived up to those caricatures.

Not long now and he'll be expecting invites for the Champions Tour; don't see that he has any standing there so, if he's interested, he'll have to go through Q-School - not easy as Barry Lane discovered last autumn.

I think Lee Westwood has similar problems winning in america, possibly to do with the fans aswell. He certainly had a lot of complaints after the 2008 us open.

Not to mention the 2008 Ryder Cup with his parents being harrassed as well as LW.

super_realist wrote:It amazes me that no one tells them to shut up or that their own shame doesn't stop them.

My read on that is that Americans tend to avoid conflict (apart from their goverment but that is another story) so instead if telling the idiot to shut up the just grin and bear it.

In England if sombody shouted "get in the hole", several people will tell them to shut the F*** up. And the situation will soon escalate into a brawl resulting in several arrests and and people being brough to hospital to get stitches after being glassed.

That prompted me to briefly consider running an experiment to test the theory at Wentworth next week.

But then quickly decided not to.

Not directly connected, but I'm reminded of a mildly amusing incident at the BMW PGA last year.

Westwood was about to tee off on the [11th?] hole. Pre-shot routine all fine. But then disturbed by scratchy voice coming out of marshal's walkie talkie (who looked highly embarrassed and tried to cover the device with his hand). Westwood asked him to turn it down, and then started again.

Exactly the same thing happens just before Westwood pulls the trigger (leading to a sigh/groan from him and the spectators). The marshal fiddles with his radio but clearly doesn't know how to turn it down or off.

"Don't you know how to turn it down?" asks Westwood. Shake of head. Westwood steps over, takes the radio and twiddles with the controls for the marshal. Guffaws from the gallery as the player returns to the tee.

Then eventually hits a decent 3W shot down the fairway...

Stop Press !

For once I agree with Montgomerie...shock horror.

super_realist wrote:In short, Europeans probably have a better understanding of the global game, while American coverage is broadly insular and protectionist.

I am living in the states and every Saturday and Sunday morning we can see the European tour on the golf channel. But to be honest I think while the European players are rated very highly by the American fans the European tour isn’t. And really if you look at the number of top European players that ply their trade over here it isn’t difficult to see why.

I think it is a fair analogy to say that the PGA tour is like the Premiership and the European Tour is like the Championship. Most fans of Premiership team have got no idea what is going on in the championship but fans of championship team will know what is going on in the Premiership and Championship.

There are of course a few events (outside of the majors and WGC events) on the European tour that will generate a buzz over here and if a player they know wins in Europe then that gets attention. Like at the end of last year Sergio won in Spain in two tourneys in a row that got a lot of hype over here because Sergio is well know, but if a lesser light did the same thing there would hardly be a ripple.