ATP 1000 Miami 2012 Final: Djokovic - Murray

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Let the show commence and The Best win !

Djo: 19 winners, 38 Unforced Errors
Murray: 16 winners, 43 Unforced errors.

Yes and so?

Again when playing a great returner and retriever, especially with two of them on the court you are going to get those type of numbers. Conditions also play a role. I can tell you right now if you analyze this number for every single murray and Djoko match you will have the same stat. Does it mean that all their matchups are low quality? Of course not. The two best returners and retrievers play each other on the same court you are bound to have those numbers. AO was a great match, had the same type of numbers, Rome in 2011 was a great match same type of numbers.


This was not a great match, it was entertaining and good however. And looking at a match quality by simply that statistic is proof of a lack of tennis knowledge more than anything else.

As said, even worse the fact it was on a slow surface allowing players to construct points and pull winners.

But again, the battle was in the recuperation time. with 50m to 70m covered per points, it was all about oxygenating those muscles.

Actually, Tenez slower surfaces make it harder to have a good ratio of errors to winners you know that. Are there more winners hit at wimby or at RG. the slower courts allow for more longer rallies and therefore more points that end in errors.

My point is simple analyzing a match quality on that one stat is not accurate. I bet you that virtually every match these two play will have the same type of numbers. Because they don't get a lot of easy points and meatball returns off their serves and they both get back so many good returns and run down so many winners.

socal1976 wrote:Actually, Tenez slower surfaces make it harder to have a good ratio of errors to winners you know that. Are there more winners hit at wimby or at RG. the slower courts allow for more longer rallies and therefore more points that end in errors.

Federer-Roddick match had a very high Winners: UEs ratio. Did they play on the same surface or some else where?

Look at the winners: UE ratio of matches RG semis 2011 Fed-Djo. Did that have such a skewed winners:UE ratio. Not hardly. Its not only with Fed involved. There are better W:UE ration in a lot of matches with other players on the same surface. Ferrer-Delpo had good winners: UE ratio for Ferrer. Djo_murray matches have far too many errors for both. This ratio is poor for Murray-Djo matches because they are basically playing for that.

socal1976 wrote:My point is simple analyzing a match quality on that one stat is not accurate. I bet you that virtually every match these two play will have the same type of numbers. Because they don't get a lot of easy points and meatball returns off their serves and they both get back so many good returns and run down so many winners.

I'm not analyzing a match on one stat. I saw the whole match and I'm putting that stat to base the point and not the other way round as you are trying to make it look like. I gave the stat to show that far too many points ending in a UE than a winner. That is poor match.

Now use your tennis knowledge to bring out any factual stat to say how this match was entertaining and of good quality( if not of great quality ).

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Djo: 19 winners, 38 Unforced Errors
Murray: 16 winners, 43 Unforced errors.

It's been a poor quality final for the spectators in first instance, and I see the stats also certify that fact. I was wandering how Murray could get to the tie-break, holding on to his serve with a percenage of first serves around 40%. I think those stats explain perfectly why: Djokovic has as well made a winners/UE ratio very ordinary, performing well below average in last part of the match.

For me I think especially in the first set both players were guilty of some very lazy shots which lead to UE.

legendkillarV2 wrote:For me I think especially in the first set both players were guilty of some very lazy shots which lead to UE.

That's true, Djokovic was completely unchallenged in that first set. Both players also looked far from their best IMO. Djokovic looked very drawn and Murray surprisingly tired.

The thing is once you have ran the equivalent of 20 x 100ms at full speed, lazyness gets a different meaning.

I said long ago that Djoko...and Murray play a la Bolitieri. Its DHBH and FH cross court forcing each other to run right and left until an UE, or with some luck a winner ends the point.

It's no different than Jankovic, Sharapova, Azarenk, and co..just done faster and harder.

As BB says, you see one rally, you have seen it all.

As a response to Raider, again Raider these two play a style that creates this type of matchup. They both have the same types of weapons as well on the backhand and return, not to mention great defensive skills. I bet if you look at the vast majority of their matchups you will see this same discrepancy in their winners to errors. In Rome 2011 it happened it happened at the AO 2012, where most points ended in an error. That doesn't nullify the quality of everything that happened before that point. I have seen really dull points end in winners and great points end in what would be scored an unforced error.

The fact that the two best returners in the world and two of the 3 best defenders in the world are playing each other will yield these types of numbers in their matchups. Not a lot of meatball returns to attack and players that can make you hit 2 and 3 winners a point to win.

I think if you let 100 fans watch the Rome semi and AO semi I doubt a single one of them (unless his name is Tenez) would not greatly enjoy it. And i doubt they would be whinning about the winners to unforced errors ratio. That fact doesn't tell you all that much about the quality of the match unless you look at the circumstances of the matchup and the conditions.

socal1976 wrote:As a response to Raider, again Raider these two play a style that creates this type of matchup. They both have the same types of weapons as well on the backhand and return, not to mention great defensive skills. I bet if you look at the vast majority of their matchups you will see this same discrepancy in their winners to errors. In Rome 2011 it happened it happened at the AO 2012, where most points ended in an error. That doesn't nullify the quality of everything that happened before that point. I have seen really dull points end in winners and great points end in what would be scored an unforced error.

The fact that the two best returners in the world and two of the 3 best defenders in the world are playing each other will yield these types of numbers in their matchups. Not a lot of meatball returns to attack and players that can make you hit 2 and 3 winners a point to win.

I think if you let 100 fans watch the Rome semi and AO semi I doubt a single one of them (unless his name is Tenez) would not greatly enjoy it. And i doubt they would be whinning about the winners to unforced errors ratio. That fact doesn't tell you all that much about the quality of the match unless you look at the circumstances of the matchup and the conditions.

What happened to your point about slow courts producing such w:ue ratio?

I asked for a factual stat to show the quality of the match. Where is that?

Not a a lot of meatball returns?? Then in that case how come your best returners suddenly start returning meat-ball hit-me balls when playing Federer. In the Dubai finals vs Murray, Fed made numerous winners and had positive W:UE ratio. Fed in US open and RG 2011 had great w:ue ratio againt Djo.

Is this your best argument? My girl, my father, my dog, 100 fans.. that you keep bringing every time.. Is this all your tennis knowledge?? Give me a factual stat to show how the Miami finals was a high quality match. If you can't, then shut this crap up.

I think if you let 100 fans watch the Rome semi and AO semi I doubt a single one of them (unless his name is Tenez) would not greatly enjoy it. And i doubt they would be whinning about the winners to unforced errors ratio.

Rome match involved a lot of choking when serving for the match and the AO match involved a player choking 2 break points at 5-5 in the fifth set. Non tennis fans would greatly enjoy that more than actual tennis fans.

Since there's no tennis going on at the moment, I'm gong to cure my withdrawal symptoms by watching (the 1965) Cincinnati Kid on a VIDEO tape...

noleisthebest wrote:Since there's no tennis going on at the moment, I'm gong to cure my withdrawal symptoms by watching (the 1965) Cincinnati Kid on a VIDEO tape...

If it wasn't for the gorgeous blue eyes of Steve McQueen, that would've been a complete waste of 90 minutes......

No recommendo....

Is it the movie where at the end, after losing, he throws a coin against a wall versus other kids and loses that too? I saw it 35 y ago or so.

Tenez wrote:Is it the movie where at the end, after losing, he throws a coin against a wall versus other kids and loses that too? I saw it 35 y ago or so.

yes